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    F-22 Raptor: News and Discussion

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:19 am

    BTW systems growth... side looking AESA radars... brilliant... where do they come up with these genius ideas... amazing...

    If I wasn't clear, I am suggesting that the new ideas the US is coming up for improving their aircraft and their arsenals that have nose mounted side looking radar, and putting the F-15 back into production essentially show them backtracking and copying what Russia did... the Su-57 was designed from the start with nose side mounted antenna along with wing mounted longer wave radar antenna, and of course the Su-35 and MiG-35 are both being kept in production because Russia has no intention of putting all their eggs in the super expensive stealth basket and leaving themselves without modern capable 4th gen fighters to defend themselves with.

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    George1
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    Post  George1 Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:17 pm

    thegopnik wrote:Dont think there is a F-22 thread but I find it very funny that it resembles the Su-57 in some ways.

    There is Smile

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    Backman
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     F-22 Raptor: News and Discussion - Page 9 Empty Re: F-22 Raptor: News and Discussion

    Post  Backman Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:21 pm

    I've just been reading YF-23/YF-22 stuff.

    I just realized that the US airforce picked the F-22 specifically because they didn't want it to be an expensive and complicated one-off project that would have to be cancelled.

    But it turned into that anyway. So picking the plane with lesser abilities , was all.for not.

    It's a conventionally designed plane. It shouldn't have been so expensive. Maybe they should have done away with the super duper RAM and a few other things. To make the thing more viable.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Thu Dec 10, 2020 7:42 pm

    Backman wrote:I've just been reading YF-23/YF-22 stuff.

    I just realized that the US airforce picked the F-22 specifically because they didn't want it to be an expensive and complicated one-off project that would have to be cancelled.

    But it turned into that anyway. So picking the plane with lesser abilities , was all.for not.

    It's a conventionally designed plane. It shouldn't have been so expensive. Maybe they should have done away with the super duper RAM and a few other things. To make the thing more viable.

    The problem is not RAM and various stealth details. It is the rotten MIC procurement process where you have 7,000 dollar toilet seats
    The Pentagon can't account for over 3 trillion dollars spent between 1980 and 2010 (or something over 20 years, I forget). The
    fact that all models of a batch end up costing way over the estimated price indicates corruption. Supposedly all of the development
    costs have to be recovered. If that was true, then the initial samples would be expensive and the price would go down. You
    never see cars being sold for several times their current prices decades after they were developed (say going from a model T to
    a 1950s car type). They would be even cheaper if there was no phony competition to change the design on an annual basis
    down to the parts. Not every part of a car needs to be changed and thus giving us the overpriced used car parts market.

    The F-22's are falling apart from old age. Their expensive maintenance is another racket. It is not the cost of materials, it is
    the "service". Just like with the over $50,000 per year cost of keeping inmates in jail. The ratio of prison guards to inmates
    is nowhere near low enough to explain it. It is because inmates are being "catered" to. So their food, clothing and other
    services are all gouging exercises. There is no way that their accommodations are better than any hotel. Supposedly they
    even do their own laundry but I think that in many cases this is another catering service.



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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Dec 11, 2020 7:22 am

    Private prisons are a racket... they might claim it costs 50K a year to keep a prisoner in prison but it sounds like they charge the prisoners for everything too... so they are double dipping.

    A 5th gen stealth aircraft needs to be precision designed and built... a few mms out or angles a few degrees out and all the stealth design stops working, so it would be expensive to build and maintain, but the fact that they had money thrown at them meant they had no reason to make it cheaper or more affordable.

    The F-22 was the more conventional more conservative choice so the took it.

    Ironically I have read the two competitors for the joint strike fighter... lockheed martin, vs Boeing was all a joke and that Boeing really just wanted to test some technology to upgrade their B-2s and for other projects and didn't really expect to win the competition.

    Because of this LM didn't really have any actual competition so they made their plane cancel proof by building it in places where senators with budget string access had voters living so they would never cancel it.

    Making it enormously more expensive without improving capability.

    To be clear a big powerful AESA radar would be expensive but it would also bring performance and capability improvements, but making that AESA in some depressed area that never made planes or components before makes it expensive and it might not work because the idiots making it don't really know what they are doing...

    George1
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    Post  George1 Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:45 pm

    A U.S. Air Force F-22 Raptor stealth fighter jet crashed at the Eglin Air Force base in Florida at around 3.30pm Monday

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9368143/F-22-Raptor-stealth-fighter-ends-nose-runway-Florida-Air-Force-base.html

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    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:24 pm

    Oh have the mighty have fallen.
     F-22 Raptor: News and Discussion - Page 9 1615882186_f-22
    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:45 pm

    George1 wrote:A U.S. Air Force F-22 Raptor stealth fighter jet crashed at the Eglin Air Force base in Florida at around 3.30pm Monday

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9368143/F-22-Raptor-stealth-fighter-ends-nose-runway-Florida-Air-Force-base.html

    No problem, they can replace if with some more F-15EX pwnd pwnd pwnd

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:19 pm

    Totally fake !

    It is designed to take some rest when needed by itself. lol1
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:24 pm

    Did the pilot fell asleep on landing approach because of the nice fresh air he gets directly from the engine?

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:31 pm

    LMFS wrote:
    George1 wrote:A U.S. Air Force F-22 Raptor stealth fighter jet crashed at the Eglin Air Force base in Florida at around 3.30pm Monday

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9368143/F-22-Raptor-stealth-fighter-ends-nose-runway-Florida-Air-Force-base.html

    No problem, they can replace if with some more F-15EX

    If they do it then that pilot just saved loads of money for USAF and increased their combat readiness

    He deserves a commendation

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:37 am

    Ha wow. F-22 crash day.

    10 months since the last F-22 crashed. I guess they don't have gravity wheel deployment on these things ? Or a hand pump ? Or a hydraulic accumulator ?
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:33 am

    Mark my words, the F-15ex or F-16ex or whatever they are called are going to cost more than inflation adjusted brand new parts.
    There is always and excuse and the US politicians are all corporate whores.

    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:19 am

    Sure, in US MIC all programs start with the same BS (in a context of budgetary constraints, we need an affordable response to the increased levels of threat our adversaries pose blah blah) and end the same way after insane cost creeps to grease the hands of the whole political, military and industrial classes involved.

    What I am really looking forward to seeing is how the US clown troupe are going to really make the best of their theatrical abilities to pretend they are climbing further their horse, when in reality they are pathetically dismounting by landing flat on their faces, with embarrassment episodes called F-22, F-35, F-15EX, maybe the "new" 4.5G fighter, the allegedly flown "6G NGAD/PCA demonstrator", the intelligence insulting farce called digital century fighters series and all the rest of their stunts, which in essence show nothing but lackluster backtracking on all the fronts on which they have been making loud statements for the last decades. I have my popcorn and am comfortably sitting in my armchair, getting ready for the show Laughing

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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:14 am

    PapaDragon wrote:

    If they do it then that pilot just saved loads of money for USAF and increased their combat readiness

    He deserves a commendation


    Definitely a Purple Heart, seeing as she/they/zhe/zhir/whatever has suffered injuries fighting the most insidious force of all - the force of gravity Razz
    lyle6
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     F-22 Raptor: News and Discussion - Page 9 Empty Yes, It’s True, The F-22 Isn’t In The Air Force Chief’s Future Fighter Plans

    Post  lyle6 Sat May 15, 2021 3:58 am

    Following the words of Chief of Staff of the Air Force General Charles Q. Brown Jr., yesterday, the military aviation world has been, it’s fair to say, reeling, with the news that the service is planning to do away with its much-vaunted F-22 Raptor stealth fighter. General Brown spoke of a desire to trim the Air Force tactical aviation fleet back to four types of fighter jets, plus the A-10 attack jet, which simply refuses to die.

    Some of Brown’s original quotes about the Air Force’s ongoing TacAir study were presented in a way that was not necessarily immediately clear. The TacAir study, meanwhile, is part of a wider Air Force assessment of the optimum balance for its future tactical fighter force and is asking some big and difficult questions. The Air Force has now clarified to The War Zone what exactly Brown meant by his “four plus one” aspiration for the service’s tactical aviation fleet.

    The story was broken by Oriana Pawlyk at Military.com, who quoted Brown as saying: “My intent is to get down to about four. And really, a four plus one, because we’re going to have the A-10 for a while ... [the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter], which will be the cornerstone, the F-15EX, and then we're going to have [the F-16 Fighting Falcon] for a while as well.”

    According to the Military.com report, Brown didn’t mention the F-22 by name, nor the F-15E Strike Eagle, for that matter, suggesting that the countdown was already on to divest those two types. While there has been talk of the F-15EX potentially replacing the Air Force’s hard-worked F-15E fleet, the Raptor’s place had generally been considered safe until now, since it offers a portfolio of capabilities that are still unmatched by any other fighter. Brown also didn’t mention the fourth platform, although the implication was that this space would be taken by the forthcoming Next Generation Air Dominance (NGAD) program, or at least by the sixth-generation fighter portion of it since that ambitious effort likely aims to field a “system of systems,” rather than a single fighter as per the traditional model.

    Breaking Defense then reported that the four tactical jets that Brown was referring to were the NGAD, F-15EX, F-16, and F-35, but didn’t add anything about the plans for the F-22. However, that source did add that Brown sees a decision on the F-16’s replacement being made in the next “six, seven, eight years,” and that the Viper might be superseded by “more F-35s or something else.” That “something else” refers to the potential all-new fighter jet that Brown first disclosed back in February. At the time, The War Zone looked at the implications of a potential ‘clean-sheet design’ to replace the F-16 and its possible impact on long-held plans to buy 1,763 copies of the F-35A, originally intended as the F-16’s successor.

    Finally, Defense One weighed in, reporting that Brown said specifically that NGAD would replace the F-22.

    An Air Force spokesperson has now confirmed to The War Zone that, yes, the four platforms that the Air Force's top officer was talking about are the NGAD, F-35, F-15EX, and F-16, “plus the A-10 in the near/mid-term.”

    When asked whether the Air Force is looking at the possibility of retiring the entire F-22 and/or F-15E fleets as part of the TacAir study, as this suggests, the answer was, however, non-committal: “We expect to determine the right mix of aircraft for the future through the ongoing TacAir study,” we were told.

    “The F-22 is still undergoing modernization,” Air Force spokeswoman Ann Stefanek told Air Force Magazine, stepping back further. “There are no plans to retire it in the near term.”

    Put together, however, it seems clear that the Air Force Chief of Staff currently favors trimming down the tactical aviation fleet to those four types, including the retirement of the F-22 (and the F-15E).

    Before #SaveTheRaptor starts trending on Twitter, it’s important to remember that the TacAir study is just that — a study that looks to assesses the optimum balance for the Air Force’s tactical fighter force and which is being run alongside another initiative, the Pentagon’s Cost Assessment and Program Evaluation (CAPE). After all, Brown himself also said that the target was “about four” fighter types, plus the A-10, which is now expected to remain in service into the 2030s, and the Air Force has confirmed that there is no planned F-22 retirement date as of now.

    Even if the Air Force were to decide that it could do without the F-22, a program to actually divest it would certainly meet concerted opposition — getting such legislation past lawmakers would likely be difficult in a similar manner as successive plans to retire the A-10 fleet or at least a portion of it. It would also be complicated by the fact that the Air Force has made concerted efforts to use Raptors to maximize the effects of fourth-generation jets, like the F-16. Only recently, meanwhile, the Air Force successfully demonstrated the ability to team up five F-35As and a single F-22 that were able to communicate with each other using their proprietary stealthy datalinks via a U-2S Dragon Lady spy plane.

    The Raptor retirement plan, if it’s finally adopted, also places a significant burden on the NGAD, which would have to be combat-ready and available in the required numbers such that retiring the F-22 would not have an adverse effect on overall Air Force capabilities.

    In fact, the idea that the NGAD is being lined up, in some planning, at least, as a Raptor replacement is interesting in itself. The NGAD — or at least, the fighter-like element of it — will have to be able to do all the F-22 can do, and more.

    At the same time, after its production run was cut short at just 187 examples, the Raptor today is seriously hampered by the small size of the fleet, which in turn impacts the costs of sustaining and operating the jets. The aircraft’s low-observable capabilities remain effective, but the technologies involved are now aging and are also increasingly difficult to maintain.

    Despite its young age, the F-22 fleet has persistently abysmal mission capability rates, a key metric used to determine how many aircraft are actually available to fly combat sorties at any time. In particular, structural modifications designed to extend the service life of the F-22 and increase its availability long-term have had an adverse effect on mission capability rates. Earlier this year, structural modifications were completed on 135 F-22s at Hill Air Force Base, Utah. “Hundreds of thousands of hours were dedicated to coating restoration, mitigating corrosion, aircraft modifications, modernization, and repair,” the Air Force confirmed at the time.

    What is more, the F-22 has always been limited by its range. The addition of external fuel tanks significantly hampers the aircraft's low-observable profile and performance. While that might not be such a big deal for a North American Aerospace Defense Command mission, warding off Russian long-range bombers and their escorts, it means the F-22’s utility would be much reduced in a conflict against China over the Taiwan Strait, for example. Really any major conflict against a near-peer competitor would mandate tanker aircraft operate within a few hundred miles or so of the F-22’s target area, which may not even be possible without putting those assets at high risk. This is a major problem we have highlighted for years and has increasingly become an issue the USAF is acknowledging itself.

    With all that in mind, we can expect the NGAD design to be tailored to overcome all of those disadvantages. Increased payload, broadband low-observability, enhanced networking, updated sensors and electronic warfare capabilities, extreme situational awareness, and capacity for expansion for new capabilities, such as directed-energy weapons, are all also likely on the to-do list for NGAD. It is expected that unmanned systems, as well as manned/unmanned teaming concepts, will play a huge role in NGAD, so it is not just a single unified aircraft system, but a family of systems. Inflight software updates enabled by open architecture, and perhaps even rapid prototyping and production of new design iterations, will all help make this a reality.

    Given the paucity of information about NGAD that’s reached the public domain so far, it’s likely to be some time before we get anything more concrete about the technical and capability aspects of this program. But this will have to change if Brown and the USAF really wish to sell the F-22 retirement scheme in exchange for pursuing NGAD with major financial backing.

    There is also the question of how the F-35 will fit into these still-emerging plans. Only recently, a senior Air Force officer said that there was no value in including the current fleet of F-35As in tabletop wargames simulating future high-end conflicts, such as one covering an American military response to a Chinese invasion of Taiwan. Moreover, the F-35 program, as a whole, is facing a new level of scrutiny, although Brown has said he sees the jet as the “cornerstone” of the Air Force fighter fleet.

    But what of potential plans to retire the F-22? In the past, Brown has said he wants the TacAir study to be completed in time to help inform decisions for the Air Force’s Fiscal Year 2023 budget request. “In the budget for FY 23, that’s where I see that we’ll really make some key decisions,” he said, earlier this year.

    While the Air Force may be looking at a future without the Raptor, there is still a long, long way before that becomes a reality. Right now, it’s simply too early to predict what kind of impact the TacAir study might have on the F-22, or any other Air Force fighter program, for that matter.

    https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/40595/yes-its-true-the-f-22-isnt-in-the-air-force-chiefs-future-fighter-plans
    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Sat May 15, 2021 4:27 am

    The drivel, harping as usually on the narratives of the US MIC for moar money and moar megaweapons that never work ans intended clown

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat May 15, 2021 1:22 pm

    So the A-10, F-16, F-15, and a new super future fighter... they called it NGAD, but if we call it JSF then they are in the position they were in the mid 1980s...

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    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Sat May 15, 2021 1:56 pm

    All this USAF chaos officially confirmed here  Rolling Eyes

    New Force Design: NGAD Needed Soon, F-22 Sunset Begins in 2030

    The Air Force is preparing to unveil a new 30-year fighter force design that includes at least two all-new fighters, a much greater use of autonomous and unmanned aircraft, a new way of providing close air support, and a narrowing timeline for retiring aircraft such as the A-10, F-16, and F-22, said Lt. Gen. Clinton S. Hinote, deputy chief of staff for strategy, integration, and requirements.

    Hinote said the F-22 will begin to phase out in about 2030—the exact timeline will be situation-dependent—and the Next-Generation Air Dominance fighter will be needed soon to defeat a Chinese stealth aircraft and missile threat that is “closer than we think.”

    In a May 13 interview with the editors of Air Force Magazine, Hinote said Chief of Staff Gen. Charles Q. Brown Jr.’s revelation that the USAF is planning to reduce its fighter fleet from seven types to “four plus one” is the kickoff of a “transparency” campaign to explain choices to be unveiled in the fiscal 2022 budget submission.

    Brown said the future fighter fleet will include the F-35, F-15EX, late-model F-16s, and the Next Generation Air Dominance, or NGAD family of systems; the “plus one” being the A-10. Brown did not mention the F-22, and “this was something you all rightly picked up on very quickly,” Hinote said.

    The Air Force plans a “transition” from the F-22 to the NGAD, and “we felt like, now is a good time for us to be able to talk about how we’re going to bridge” between the two systems.

    While the F-22 is a good airframe—it has been updated and will continue to receive upgrades, “mostly sensors,” Hinote said—the Air Force is anticipating “the sunset of the F-22 … in about the 2030-ish timeframe.” That won’t be the full retirement of the type, but the beginning of its phase-out, he said. By then the F-22 will be 25 years old and the Air Force should be deep into a new cycle of fielding NGAD and its successors on what could be as rapid as a five-year cycle.

    “Our Chief of Staff Gen. Brown has it exactly right: We must ‘accelerate change or lose,’” said AFA President retired Lt. Gen. Bruce “Orville” Wright. “If he says it’s time to start thinking about retiring the F-22, then he understands something about what’s coming with NGAD. The Air Force has led the way in developing and fielding the most advanced technologies on the planet and integrating them into complex weapons systems. They’ve done that from the F-117 a generation ago to the B-21 today. We have to respect Gen. Brown’s confidence and that proven capability to deliver.”

    The F-22 fleet is small and suffers from vanishing-vendor problems, senior USAF officers have said recently. A recent high-level USAF planning document said the F-22 won’t be competitive two decades from now. Hinote said the F-22 “has its limitations and we can’t modernize our way out of the [air superiority] problem with just using an updated F-22.”

    However, the Air Force will not allow any gap in its ability to achieve air superiority, he insisted.

    “We believe … we have a good story,” he said, which is that the F-22 will be kept “viable as a bridge to get to the new capability. This is not an area of the Air Force where we feel we can take a lot of risk.” Though he thinks some mission areas might tolerate gaps or risks—he didn’t name them—air superiority “is not one of them.”

    One of the reasons senior leadership is talking about the F-22 and NGAD is because the budget request to be presented in the coming weeks will show a “large … commitment” to the NGAD, Hinote said.

    The service expects to have “a tight transition plan” between the F-22 and NGAD, he added. Until NGAD is available, “We feel like a good use of our resources is to keep the F-22 viable as we are developing this sea change in the way we field capability.”

    Depending on the threat and hedging against problems in NGAD, the USAF may consider a service-life extension program for the F-22, but Hinote said that seems unlikely because the NGAD is making swift progress.

    “I was surprised at how well it’s doing,” he said. He has escorted a number of members of Congress to see the jet—which former USAF acquisition chief Will Roper revealed last September has already flown—and they have come away “at a minimum, fairly impressed,” Hinote assessed. Members of the Office of the Secretary of Defense have similarly visited the program, and “seeing is believing,” he added.

    “We still have to make it real, and there’s a lot to do in the program, but when you see what is going on, and you hear it from the Airmen who are flying it, you get a chance to really understand … where we’re going.” He said he wished he could “brag on” the contractors who have brought the program so far, so quickly, but much of the project remains classified.

    The NGAD timetable will be “event driven,” but Hinote doubts it will be 10 years before it is in operational service. The “long pole in the tent” right now is integrating “the most important things onto that platform with a government reference architecture.”

    He also noted that NGAD is a family of systems and will be “optionally manned,” meaning several versions of the jet may be built and employed with or without crews.

    When the budget comes out, “it may not look like a 100 percent” replacement of F-22s with NGADs because “you’re talking about a set of capabilities, … some of that may be unmanned [or] optionally manned. So it’s not one-for-one.”

    Broadly, he expects the Air Force to embrace autonomous aircraft as force multipliers. “We’re really working hard at identifying the true value propositions” in missions where unmanned systems may be used, he reported. He noted the Skyborg autonomous aircraft test earlier this month, which did not require the use of a runway for launch or recovery—something that could be a game-changer as the Air Force seeks to complicate the targeting problem for adversaries.

    The NGAD concept calls for rapid turnover in technology, such that when one is about to be deployed, the next version will already be in design, if not development. Hinote suggested that the second NGAD type is already in design, then said, “I can’t confirm or deny that one.” But the Air Force is embracing the concept because it will allow “the great companies of our industrial base to re-enter the competition at the design phase, as opposed to crowding them out in the sustainability phase” as a consequence of what has recently been coined “vendor lock.”

    It hasn’t been decided what the optimum cycle of NGAD platform turnover should be, but the hardware and software will be in a perennial spiral, Hinote said.

    “As you’re allowing that program to mature, through a spiral series, you’re designing the next platform” with new software and sensor technology, he said. As these are integrated into the existing version, “you jump over that one” to the next one. “It could be every five years,” he said. “It could be every eight years.”

    The A-10, which also is expected to fly until the 2030s, will be superseded by a “new way” and “new concepts” of delivering close air support, Hinote said.

    “We’re not looking at building another non-survivable close air support aircraft like it,” he explained. “The lines on the battlefield are not necessarily where you’re going to be. In fact, it’s probably going to look much more distributed … [that’s why you’re seeing the] long-range fires discussion … play out in the press and in the Pentagon.” This is a “big, big deal,” he said. Close air support will “feel much different.” The new aircraft will be used “typically” in the counterterrorism environment, Hinote said, and the new concept is “pretty compelling.” He didn’t give details, but said that when the new capability becomes available “it’ll be pretty evident that we need to just go ahead and divest the A-10 and move to the new” construct.

    As for the F-16, Hinote confirmed what Brown has suggested, that it will likely be a “clean sheet design” created in much the same way as the NGAD, using digital methods. The role envisaged for the new airplane will be homeland defense and missions “that don’t necessarily require a high level of survivability.” For example, it may not need to have “radar stealth.”

    However, this is not a pressing decision, as “our F-16 ‘new’ blocks are actually still in decent shape; we can upgrade them and keep them viable for some time.” When it comes time to “sunset” the F-16, “a clean sheet design using digital tools is the way to go,” Hinote said.

    Fielding the NGAD is urgent, Hinote added. While he would not say when the threat will overmatch USAF’s current capabilities, “the time is absolutely coming where the combination of something like a [Chinese] J-20 with an advanced … missile is a threat to air superiority for the United States. … It’s something we’ve got to address.”

    https://www.airforcemag.com/new-force-design-ngad-needed-soon-f-22-sunset-begins-in-2030/

    US guys are firmly convinced that ditching viable platforms in search for the last mirage of overwhelming technological superiority is the cheap and effective way and that an expeditionary force is needed capable of battling Russia and China in their territories at the same time... they have lost their mind and I am not sorry for that.

    To summarize this schizophrenic clusterfuck of a strategic force planing:

    > PAK-FA is crap and 4.5G at best, but NGAD is driven by its main attributes (speed, range, payload), that the F-22 cannot hope to match even after deep modernization.
    > F-35 is the best plane in everything, but it will not even fulfil its basic role of substituting F-16 or A-10, the same that happened with the F-22 which went from substitute of the F-15 to being practically substituted BY the F-15...
    > Russia is retrograde and a dwindling power for developing 4.5G planes like Su-35 in the early 2000's, but US is quite ok ordering F-15s in 2020 and thinking of developing a non stealth clean sheet F-16 follower going into the 2030 while they retire 5G planes from the fleet...

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Sat May 15, 2021 4:52 pm

    C'mon guys, you are down in the weeds.

    I somehow doubt that these 2* 3* and 4* Generals are really interested in their aircraft's performance against future possible adversaries. They need maximum publicity, specifically the risk of being overtaken. It needs to sound good, make for lots of good articles and be the basis for bullshit over facts with the ignorants in Congress but it ain't the real reason. Just look at the F-35 as a prime example.

    These guys are setting up their careers in the MIC post their retirement. They need to put in place juicy profit streams and reinforce those streams already put in place by their predecessors. The bigger and longer those streams are the larger the rewards will be.

    Cynical perhaps but the history of the US defence/MIC relationship over the pat 50+ years shows the way of their world.
    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Sat May 15, 2021 8:16 pm

    JohninMK wrote:C'mon guys, you are down in the weeds.

    I somehow doubt that these 2* 3* and 4* Generals are really interested in their aircraft's performance against future possible adversaries. They need maximum publicity, specifically the risk of being overtaken. It needs to sound good, make for lots of good articles and be the basis for bullshit over facts with the ignorants in Congress but it ain't the real reason. Just look at the F-35 as a prime example.

    These guys are setting up their careers in the MIC post their retirement. They need to put in place juicy profit streams and reinforce those streams already put in place by their predecessors. The bigger and longer those streams are the larger the rewards will be.

    Cynical perhaps but the history of the US defence/MIC relationship over the pat 50+ years shows the way of their world.

    Yes we know, but at some point they will need to stop cutting the branch where they are sitting. It is not 1990 anymore, when they could do whatever crap they wished and still not threaten the status of their country. USN has stopped being credible in terms of air power and USAF is going the same path, quite fast in fact. They cannot allow themselves many more military embarrassments before those endless money streams start drying up for good.
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Sun May 16, 2021 12:16 am

    LMFS wrote:
    Yes we know, but at some point they will need to stop cutting the branch where they are sitting. It is not 1990 anymore, when they could do whatever crap they wished and still not threaten the status of their country. USN has stopped being credible in terms of air power and USAF is going the same path, quite fast in fact. They cannot allow themselves many more military embarrassments before those endless money streams start drying up for good.

    Disagree, those money streams dry up or reduce only when those providing the money turn off the taps. Those in power in the US do not view the 'military embarrassments' as you put it in the same way that we might. I would also dispute your comments on the USN and USAF as well.
    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Sun May 16, 2021 3:33 am

    JohninMK wrote:Disagree, those money streams dry up or reduce only when those providing the money turn off the taps. Those in power in the US do not view the 'military embarrassments' as you put it in the same way that we might. I would also dispute your comments on the USN and USAF as well.

    The less fearsome the US war machine, the less they can force countries into their dollar scam, that is what I mean. Russia and China are actively demolishing it, with other countries more than willing to join. Consequently with the fall of the dollar and the abuses of the administration, inflation is rising in the US and at some point of this decade they printing machine is likely coming to a halt. Then they will have to give up their corruption and their whims.

    As to the air power of US, it is a shadow of what it was in the golden days of the F-15 and F-16. USN has no air superiority anymore, while USAF is reducing numbers, their best plane is a museum piece, the second best is obsolete upon induction and they are increasing the number of airframes of the previous generation when they should be reducing them. As to NGAD, they are shaping the program to be yet another scam based on unrealistic assumptions. To me it is a hell of a shitshow.
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    Post  GarryB Sun May 16, 2021 11:37 am

    Disagree, those money streams dry up or reduce only when those providing the money turn off the taps.

    I am sure with new technology they can print money faster than ever before... the problem is that as the printing gets faster and faster and more dollars are out there is it still going to count as money, or do they need to make it out of more absorbant two ply paper so it is less of a pain in the ass so to speak... Twisted Evil
    Scorpius
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    Post  Scorpius Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:44 pm

    God, guys, tell me that the journalists were wrong when they claimed that the F-22 crashed because it was improperly washed:
    https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/42751/f-35s-nearly-collided-with-f-22s-right-after-last-years-raptor-crash

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