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    F-22 Raptor: News and Discussion

    nemrod
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    Post  nemrod Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:24 pm

    [quote="GarryB"]


    As it was for the Kursk, the Kursk was sank by US submarine, for political reasons Russia abstained to acknowledged the event.

    How?

    I could not say how, and why. In this document it was explained how the cold war was tense between USSR/Russia-nowadays- and West. I could not do incessant digressions, after all it is topic dedicated to the F-22, and not the cold war.



    Well lets question the quality of the document...
    Indeed, I agree with you, as most of the western medias. Nevertheless, it is noteworthy to add that the SR-71 was intended to defy USSR, because it was the only country that could challenge US.

    nemrod
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    Post  nemrod Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:26 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    As it was for the Kursk, the Kursk was sank by US submarine, for political reasons Russia abstained to acknowledged the event.

    How?

    I could not say how, and why. In this document it was explained how the cold war was tense between USSR/Russia-nowadays- and West. I could not do incessant digressions, after all it is topic dedicated to the F-22, and not the cold war.



    Well lets question the quality of the document...
    Indeed, I agree with you, as most of the western medias. Nevertheless, it is noteworthy to add that the SR-71 was intended to defy USSR, because it was the only country that could challenge US.[/quote]
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    Post  George1 Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:03 pm

    A $613-million upgrade program for the Raptor was set to include new air-to-air missiles but was “limited” by continued delays in software development over the past two fiscal years, Sputnik reported January 27. Officials have now pinned down the weapons upgrades to take place in the summer of 2019, according to 1st Lt. Carrie Volpe of the US Air Force.

    At that point, "the F-22 fleet will begin to receive upgrades to its available weapons with thin Increment 3.2B upgrade," Volpe noted, adding that the upgrade, "allows full functionality for the AIM-120D and AIM-9X Air-to-Air missiles."

    https://sputniknews.com/military/201703101051465093-us-f-22-raptor-jets-upgrade/
    Cyberspec
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    Post  Cyberspec Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:01 am

    F-22 Incident Alleged to be Engine Power Loss. Pilot Lands Gear-Up

    Unofficial Sources Say F-22 Acting as Adversary at NAS Fallon Had Flame-Out
    https://theaviationist.com/?p=53286

     F-22 Raptor: News and Discussion - Page 8 F22down_10
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    Post  JohninMK Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:23 am

    This is the location for the 'Topgun' exercises. Looks like engine flameout on take-off. It apparently slid down the runway for 1500m or so. The last time this happened the aircraft cost $35m to repair and it took 6 years.

    http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/20129/f-22-raptor-came-to-a-rest-on-its-belly-during-major-mishap-friday-at-nas-fallon
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    Post  Cyberspec Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:10 am

    Apparently there was another incident shortly before the one mentioned above...if it was to happen to the Su-57 we wouldn't hear the end of it

    another-f-22-from-alaska-had-a-catastrophic-engine-failure
    http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/20260/another-f-22-from-alaska-had-a-catastrophic-engine-failure-days-before-nas-fallon-crash
    nemrod
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    Post  nemrod Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:44 pm



    F-22 Raptors May Not be Able to Overcome the Su-35 After All;Severe Shortcomings of the United States’ Most Advanced Fighter Emerge During Operations in Syria
    http://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/70256
    Since the Russian Air Force began its military operations in Syria in September 2015 the country had deployed some of its most advanced fighters to bases in the Middle Eastern country. These have included the Su-30 and Su-35 air superiority platforms, heavy fighters based on the airframe of the renowned Soviet Su-27 with formidable air to air combat capabilities. Since the Turkish downing of a Russian Su-24 strike fighter in November 2015, a dated Russian platform with negligible air to air capabilities, the Air Force has equipped its advanced Sukhoi platforms with air to air missiles to guard against the threat of Western bloc fighters operating in the country.

    With heavily armed Su-30 and Su-35 fighters flying regular sorties over Syria, combined with the deployment of Russia’s most sophisticated air defence systems to the country, the balance of power in the skies was strongly in Russia’s favour. U.S. military reports indicate that the Russian Su-35 is more capable in air to air combat than any fighter in the world – with the sole exception of the F-22 Raptor. These reports notably predate the induction of the Chinese J-20, which could potentially challenge both the Raptor and the Sukhoi. As a result, with tensions with Russian forces growing, the United States began to deploy its most advanced air superiority platform to Syria. The F-22 was expected to shift the balance of power firmly in the Americans’ favour – a much needed asset in the Middle Eastern theatre and perhaps the only one capable of counterbalancing the deployment of cutting edge Russian assets in the country. Raptors deployed from a U.S. airbase in the United Arab Emirates, also a base of operations for strikes on Afghanistan.

    While it is by far the most capable Western fighter in service, the emergence of several significant flaws have effected the Raptor’s performance and severely compromising the fighter’s ability to project power and over Syrian skies. Foremost among these are the F-22’s extremely high maintenance requirements, which make sorties more than once a week impossible – and when operating as far as Syria makes sorties more than twice a month extremely difficult. This only exacerbates the numerical disadvantage the Raptor faces, with fighters stretched across the world and few available for deployment to the Middle East. Flaws have also emerged with the Raptor’s combat performance, particularly relative to the relatively low maintenance Sukhoi platform.
    The Su-35 carries 175% of the F-22’s payload and is far more maneuverable, incorporating three dimensional thrust vectoring. The Su-35 also has the advantage of fielding 130km range R-27 missiles, potentially giving it an advantage in beyond visual range combat against the F-22’s 105km range AIM-120C. With both fighters having similarly sophisticated avionics and electronic warfare systems, the F-22’s primary advantage is considered to be its stealth capabilities. This allows the Raptors to use their extremely low radar cross section to evade the Su-35’s radar in beyond visual range engagements, potentially compensating for the Raptor’s shorter missile range by allowing it to close the 25km gap undetected. The F-22’s recent performance in Syria has however brought its ability to successfully engage Russian platforms at a distance into question.

    While Russian Sukhoi fighters currently in service do not operate with minimised radar cross sections, they have managed to evade some of the most advanced radars in the U.S. Air Force – the F-22’s AN/APG-77. According to a report from the commander of the U.S. 95th Reconnaissance Squadron commander stationed at UAE Al-Dhafra airbase, Raptors are unable to effectively track Russian Su-30 and Su-35 fighters in Syria. The F-22’s inability to detect the Sukhoi fighters at range effectively annuls the advantage of its stealth capabilities. In beyond visual range combat this leaves neither fighter able detect the other, a significant advantage for the Sukhoi as it guarantees combat will occur at short ranges where it retains several advantages. This of course assumes the Sukhoi does not coordinate with ground based radars, such as those at Russia’s Khmeimim airbase in Syria, which are more sophisticated and capable of detecting stealth fighters.
    According to the Al-Dhafra airbase commander, the F-22 fighters have other significant drawbacks which have hindered their operational capabilities including a lack of infrared and optic capabilities to allow for night time tracking, a lack of helmet-mounted displays forcing pilots to actively look around to find other aircraft, and an inability to transfer data through the Link 16 tactical data exchange network and a resulting reliance on radio communication. The result is that, though it lacks ‘next generation’ stealth capabilities, the Su-35 may well overall exceed the capabilities of the F-22 – particularly when accounting for the Raptor’s extensive maintenance requirements and resulting long absences from the frontline. While there is no doubt that the F-22 is one of the world’s most capable combat platforms, it’s position as the world’s foremost air superiority fighter may well not be guaranteed in light of recent Russian technological developments and the Raptor’s demonstrated failures when operating in Syria in proximity to advanced Sukhoi platforms.



    http://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/70256

    U read as me

    Raptors are unable to effectively track Russian Su-30 and Su-35 fighters in Syria. The F-22’s inability to detect the Sukhoi fighters at range effectively annuls the advantage of its stealth capabilities.
    In fact I never doubted one second that the SU-30 is largely enough for the RuAF. I never doubted one second that SU-30 as long as Mig-29 SMT, Mig-35 could detect and down any US aircraft, including the F-22.
    Moreover since then, there are others technologies that appear in Russia, especially Radio Photonic Radars that could easily detect, track any US aircraft, including the F-22, and the B-2.

    https://www.mk.ru/politics/2014/11/11/rossiyskie-voennye-samolety-stanut-umnee-letchikov.html

    http://www.arms-expo.ru/news/novye_razrabotki/blagodarya_radiofotonike_kret_sozdast_radary_novogo_pokoleniya/

    https://kret.defence.ru/article/4610/

    If US reduced the number of F-22 at less than 200 it is for a good reason, it could not overcome the new russian, chinese air defense and their new fighters.



    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:59 pm

    Well if they can't see a su-30 with their best radar at max range ... they clearly suck those f-22.

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    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:42 am

    Isos wrote:Well if they can't see a  su-30 with their best radar at max range ... they clearly suck those f-22.

    This is a little far fetched. I saw this article before but didn't understood it like that...
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    Post  Cyberspec Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:16 am

    F-22 at Arizona Airshow 2019

    click to enlarge
     F-22 Raptor: News and Discussion - Page 8 Th_750066662_F_22_1_122_862lo

    Up close it seems rougher than I expected...maybe the RAM has worn off  Question
     F-22 Raptor: News and Discussion - Page 8 Th_749663350_F_22_detail_122_808lo
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:32 pm

     F-22 Raptor: News and Discussion - Page 8 690859_original

    Serious problems with this section of the F-22.

    But note the lack of any RAM on the rivets (and skin for that matter). Why is the USA flying F-22s without RAM?

    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:00 pm

    It could be one that was damaged by the hurricane last year.
    Cyberspec
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    Post  Cyberspec Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:10 am

    kvs wrote:

    Serious problems with this section of the F-22.

    But note the lack of any RAM on the rivets (and skin for that matter).  Why is the USA flying F-22s without RAM?


    Another one with similar problems...also on the sides as well. Also this one isn't from an airshow but deployed in the ME
    It doesn't seem to have RAM applied

    click
     F-22 Raptor: News and Discussion - Page 8 F22-1

    F-22 shot flying over the Middle East three days ago with some clearly visible coatings corrosion on its upper nose in the same spot where our images showed another Langely F-22 with far more severe issues.

    https://twitter.com/Aviation_Intel/status/1157418069251072000/photo/1

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    dino00
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    Post  dino00 Fri May 15, 2020 7:05 pm

    F-22 fighter crashes in Florida

    https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/33486/f-22-raptor-stealth-fighter-crashes-during-training-flight-in-florida

    Crash and burn baby attack  don't worry the pilot is safe thumbsup

    185...

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    ahmedfire
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    Post  ahmedfire Fri May 15, 2020 10:43 pm

    dino00 wrote:F-22 fighter crashes in Florida

    https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/33486/f-22-raptor-stealth-fighter-crashes-during-training-flight-in-florida

    Crash and burn baby attack  don't worry the pilot is safe thumbsup

    185...

    Video of the crash .

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat May 16, 2020 4:02 am

    I wonder if they are not bothering to apply RAM during peace time to reduce operational costs and increase operational readiness...

    A large factor in the enormous man hours needed to maintain these aircraft is because if you have to open a panel you first have to remove the RAM coating and then unscrew the panel and check and replace any components and then replace the panel and screw it back on and then cover the screws with tape and then apply the RAM material to a certain thickness and then let it cure for several hours before the aircraft can be flown again.

    Perhaps they have decided that when no in combat that they wont bother with RAM coatings to make it cheaper and easier to operate.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sat May 16, 2020 6:35 am

    GarryB wrote:I wonder if they are not bothering to apply RAM during peace time to reduce operational costs and increase operational readiness...

    A large factor in the enormous man hours needed to maintain these aircraft is because if you have to open a panel you first have to remove the RAM coating and then unscrew the panel and check and replace any components and then replace the panel and screw it back on and then cover the screws with tape and then apply the RAM material to a certain thickness and then let it cure for several hours before the aircraft can be flown again.

    Perhaps they have decided that when no in combat that they wont bother with RAM coatings to make it cheaper and easier to operate.

    I agree, it looks like they are saving money and resources.

    But NATzO fanbois go ballistic when they see exposed rivets on the Su-57 even during testing.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat May 16, 2020 11:14 am

    Tell me about it.... in the 1980s when they got their first up close look at the MiG-29s they complained about the gaps between the panels... I used to tell those idiots that it would not effect parasitic drag so aerodynamically it would make no difference at all... but it would mean they cost 15 million to make instead of 30 million with perfectly fitting panels... they didn't care... it seems pretty is more important than functional... a problem in the west... explains the high divorce rate really...

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sat May 16, 2020 5:23 pm

    GarryB wrote:Tell me about it.... in the 1980s when they got their first up close look at the MiG-29s they complained about the gaps between the panels... I used to tell those idiots that it would not effect parasitic drag so aerodynamically it would make no difference at all... but it would mean they cost 15 million to make instead of 30 million with perfectly fitting panels... they didn't care... it seems pretty is more important than functional... a problem in the west... explains the high divorce rate really...

    These chauvinist twits did not even understand that there must be some gap between panels. Fully fitting panels would exert much more
    stress on the rivets due to thermal expansion. It's the same requirement as putting OSB or plywood sheathing on a house. You need
    to leave a small nail sized gap between the panels to prevent long term loosening due to thermal expansion. The material used for the
    panels does not make any difference.

    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sat May 16, 2020 7:03 pm

    kvs wrote:
    GarryB wrote:I wonder if they are not bothering to apply RAM during peace time to reduce operational costs and increase operational readiness...

    A large factor in the enormous man hours needed to maintain these aircraft is because if you have to open a panel you first have to remove the RAM coating and then unscrew the panel and check and replace any components and then replace the panel and screw it back on and then cover the screws with tape and then apply the RAM material to a certain thickness and then let it cure for several hours before the aircraft can be flown again.

    Perhaps they have decided that when no in combat that they wont bother with RAM coatings to make it cheaper and easier to operate.

    I agree, it looks like they are saving money and resources.  

    But NATzO fanbois go ballistic when they see exposed rivets on the Su-57 even during testing.


    Check out my post from the Su-57 thread, notice the difference in rivets? Wink

    F-16 forums will belch all day saying the Su-57 lacks stealth, but look at the fragile flaking RAM coating on the F-22, and the rivets and gaps between the panels (on the undercarriage) are far more extreme on the F-22 compared to the Su-57

     F-22 Raptor: News and Discussion - Page 8 EUr_3LrXgAM2Z3j?format=jpg&name=large

    Compare that to this:

     F-22 Raptor: News and Discussion - Page 8 EUQMriUUwAA9dLZ?format=jpg&name=large

    The underside structure on the Su-57 (behind the nose) seems more uniform, and behind the cockpit the rivets are smaller and less exposed compared their counterpart (F-22).

    The rivets on the the F-22 panels are ugly and haphazardly applied, where as the rivets on the Su-57 are more clean and more tastefully done.

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    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:34 pm

    Dont think there is a F-22 thread but I find it very funny that it resembles the Su-57 in some ways.

     F-22 Raptor: News and Discussion - Page 8 F-22_e10
     F-22 Raptor: News and Discussion - Page 8 F-22a10

    I heard that the F-22 or the two seater version was to have canards? Does anyone know that India's su-57 double seater(if it went through) would have had canards as well? The 1st image was to have a larger payload capacity different from the FB-22 concept. Who knows maybe Japan and Israel's F-22 demand might increase the likelihood of F-22 designs coming back.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:19 pm

    Who knows maybe Japan and Israel's F-22 demand might increase the likelihood of F-22 designs coming back.

    Japan and Israel and Australia have all expressed interest in buying F-22s but the Americans really didn't want to sell them....

    At 250 million per aircraft when they were made... probably over 300 million per aircraft to start production now it really makes them unaffordable for any customer...

    BTW systems growth... side looking AESA radars... brilliant... where do they come up with these genius ideas... amazing...

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    ahmedfire
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    Post  ahmedfire Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:21 pm


    Something like that on J-20

     F-22 Raptor: News and Discussion - Page 8 Screen35

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:42 am

    ahmedfire wrote:
    Something like that on J-20

    Totally not possible. Search harder for an earlier US version. We all know that China can only copy the US Smile
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    Post  Backman Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:47 am

    thegopnik wrote:Dont think there is a F-22 thread but I find it very funny that it resembles the Su-57 in some ways.


    I heard that the F-22 or the two seater version was to have canards? Does anyone know that India's su-57 double seater(if it went through) would have had canards as well? The 1st image was to have a larger payload capacity different from the FB-22 concept. Who knows maybe Japan and Israel's F-22 demand might increase the likelihood of F-22 designs coming back.

    The Levcons are the canards.

    The US is going to try and sell all of these countries F-15X's. But F-15X's just aren't as cool as 5th gen aircraft. If only one of the other 5th gen concepts would get going. Then they could sell some into this demand.

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