The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

Vann7 wrote:The Bulgarian RAT ,visit Kiev and declare that support Sanctions against Russia..




Russia had to be crazy ,in dealing with such scum President for the south stream project.. .. His hostility and anti Russian speech have only increased ..almost at Lithuane and Poland levels. a country like Bulgaria that today only exist because Russia kicked the Turkey army from its territory and helped them to gain its independence from Turkey. Was really was a good idea that Putin canceled any deal with such traitors and do counter sanctions on them..

Neutrality wrote:

Vann7 wrote:The Bulgarian RAT ,visit Kiev and declare that support Sanctions against Russia..




Russia had to be crazy ,in dealing with such scum President for the south stream project.. .. His hostility and anti Russian speech have only increased ..almost at Lithuane and Poland levels. a country like Bulgaria that today only exist because Russia kicked the Turkey army from its territory and helped them to gain its independence from Turkey. Was really was a good idea that Putin canceled any deal with such traitors and do counter sanctions on them..

Bulgaria fought against Russia in WWI though. In the words of Zhirinovski "no help for them anymore because they will spit on us later".

Khepesh wrote:I quote myself from post 871 in the previous thread.

Shirokino, again. "Kotych" has posted that VSN have left. Some confusion may be result of the announcement of intention to withdraw being understood as a withdrawl that has already taken place, when the reality may be that the forces have not yet moved. IMO you never announce an intention to withdraw when you are in combat, even low level, and announce the withdrawl only when it has taken place. I am beginning to think that a cock-up has occured and we have what is now clearly an embarrasing debacle about Shirokino that gives propaganda to ukrops. There is a split in opinion, from side of Novorossiya, about this. Some say that it is simply to show that VSN are not the guilty party and that it is ukrops who want to break Minsk, and this is of course a fact. Others say that the ground at Shirokino is not suitable for defence as it is overlooked by hills and it is necessary to withdraw to better ground to save lives. These are the views from the side "cunning plan". From the side "Putin drained" it is pointed out that why only now withdraw from Shirokino if the ground is bad, why not months ago. Why withdraw to show "good intentions" when the outside world does not know, and if it did, will not give a shit. Also, if Shirokino is given up, then in order to show we are the good guys and want to save lives, why not give up Gorlovka, Donetsk, Lugansk, everything. If Shirokino is given up to save lives, then that argument is also valid for saying that Leningrad, Stalingrad and Voronezh should have been given up. Ukrops see all this nonsense happening in the networks and laugh. This should have been forecast and better thought given to any withdrawl from Shirokino, if it has actually happened, and it is still not 100% clear. Whatever the reasons for this heap of shit, it had better be part of "cunning plan" or some heads should roll.

I draw attention to that part I have now put in bold because yesterday Pushilin was talking about the possibility of VSN withdrawing from the front line Marinka and Krasnogorovka, and even Gorlovka has been mentioned. There is also talk of Debaltsevo being turned in a "DMZ" as it is not part of DNR according to Minsk. Does anybody think that ukrops will also pull back in those areas, or that they will evacuate Avdeevka and Peski in a gesture of "goodwill" to make them DMZ? I would like to say that I cannot see any possibility of Gorlovka being evacuated by VSN to turn it into a DMZ, but if there is a withdrawl from positions at Marinka and Krasnogorovka, then anything seems possible, even withdrawl from the western and northern districts of Donetsk city in order to make them DMZ, or if not that, which is extremely unlikely, then possibly from Yasinovataya and/or Spartak. Dangerous games and this all begins to tighten now. Four or five weeks, tick tock tick tock....

sepheronx wrote:I dont see the point of pulling back if you are ahead, just for "good will" gesture when you know the other side wont follow through the same. As well, I hope they know if they give up, they will surely die anyway. So all of this makes no sense, unless these areas are just nothing, hold little strategic value, and the NAF forces are stretched too thin.

Outside of that, Pushillin may end up dead and someone else replacing him if he is pulling these losing games for "good will". No such thing really, as it is a kill or be killed situation.

Flagship Victory wrote:Russia stopped supplying electricity to NAF controlled Donbas because Maidan won't pay for it. I knew this was a mistake when Russians were building all those power lines to make NAF dependent on Russia for electricity.  

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-cuts-off-power-supplies-ukraine-rebels-kiev-155519945.html

Flagship Victory wrote:

sepheronx wrote:I dont see the point of pulling back if you are ahead, just for "good will" gesture when you know the other side wont follow through the same. As well, I hope they know if they give up, they will surely die anyway. So all of this makes no sense, unless these areas are just nothing, hold little strategic value, and the NAF forces are stretched too thin.

Outside of that, Pushillin may end up dead and someone else replacing him if he is pulling these losing games for "good will". No such thing really, as it is a kill or be killed situation.

If Russia wants you dead, then you might as well be dead. Lesson to be learned, never start an uprising without Russia's approval. Donbas is not Crimea. Russia gave the go ahead to do uprising in Crimea. Russia did not give the go ahead to do uprising in Donbas.

Karl Haushofer wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:Russia stopped supplying electricity to NAF controlled Donbas because Maidan won't pay for it. I knew this was a mistake when Russians were building all those power lines to make NAF dependent on Russia for electricity.  

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-cuts-off-power-supplies-ukraine-rebels-kiev-155519945.html

Did I understand this correctly? Russia first built power lines to Donbass to provide the Donbass rebels with electricity and then stopped providing the electricity because Kiev is not paying for it?

I'm not supporting Kiev in this war, but this is a pretty ridiculous position from Russia.

Karl Haushofer wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:

sepheronx wrote:I dont see the point of pulling back if you are ahead, just for "good will" gesture when you know the other side wont follow through the same. As well, I hope they know if they give up, they will surely die anyway. So all of this makes no sense, unless these areas are just nothing, hold little strategic value, and the NAF forces are stretched too thin.

Outside of that, Pushillin may end up dead and someone else replacing him if he is pulling these losing games for "good will". No such thing really, as it is a kill or be killed situation.

If Russia wants you dead, then you might as well be dead. Lesson to be learned, never start an uprising without Russia's approval. Donbas is not Crimea. Russia gave the go ahead to do uprising in Crimea. Russia did not give the go ahead to do uprising in Donbas.

Really? Didn't the Russian Duma give Putin a permission to use military force in Ukraine after Crimea was taken? At the same time Putin was saying that Russia will defend its compatriots in its near abroad. If this is not a "go ahead" then I don't know what is.

Flagship Victory wrote:

Karl Haushofer wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:

sepheronx wrote:I dont see the point of pulling back if you are ahead, just for "good will" gesture when you know the other side wont follow through the same. As well, I hope they know if they give up, they will surely die anyway. So all of this makes no sense, unless these areas are just nothing, hold little strategic value, and the NAF forces are stretched too thin.

Outside of that, Pushillin may end up dead and someone else replacing him if he is pulling these losing games for "good will". No such thing really, as it is a kill or be killed situation.

If Russia wants you dead, then you might as well be dead. Lesson to be learned, never start an uprising without Russia's approval. Donbas is not Crimea. Russia gave the go ahead to do uprising in Crimea. Russia did not give the go ahead to do uprising in Donbas.

Really? Didn't the Russian Duma give Putin a permission to use military force in Ukraine after Crimea was taken? At the same time Putin was saying that Russia will defend its compatriots in its near abroad. If this is not a "go ahead" then I don't know what is.

Heck no. It was Strelkov who took personally started uprising in Donbas. Now Strelkov is in BIG trouble

Karl Haushofer wrote:If the Russian Duma would grant Putin such a permission it could not be for any other reason than to use military force in Donbass, since Crimea was already considered as Russian at the time.

Flagship Victory wrote:

Karl Haushofer wrote:If the Russian Duma would grant Putin such a permission it could not be for any other reason than to use military force in Donbass, since Crimea was already considered as Russian at the time.

Yes but then Putin has Duma rescind that.

PapaDragon wrote:So we have clowns here who quote idiots from ignore list who quote yahoo news who quote Kiev PR crew???

Haushofer, you may now claim your rightful place as no.2 on Dragon's ignore list, congrats!

Karl Haushofer wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:

Karl Haushofer wrote:If the Russian Duma would grant Putin such a permission it could not be for any other reason than to use military force in Donbass, since Crimea was already considered as Russian at the time.

Yes but then Putin has Duma rescind that.

It was rescinded later but the "go ahead" had already been given.

Flagship Victory wrote:Russia stopped supplying electricity to NAF controlled Donbas because Maidan won't pay for it. I knew this was a mistake when Russians were building all those power lines to make NAF dependent on Russia for electricity.  

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-cuts-off-power-supplies-ukraine-rebels-kiev-155519945.html

sepheronx wrote:I dont see the point of pulling back if you are ahead, just for "good will" gesture when you know the other side wont follow through the same. As well, I hope they know if they give up, they will surely die anyway. So all of this makes no sense, unless these areas are just nothing, hold little strategic value, and the NAF forces are stretched too thin.

Outside of that, Pushillin may end up dead and someone else replacing him if he is pulling these losing games for "good will". No such thing really, as it is a kill or be killed situation.

PapaDragon wrote:So we have clowns here who quote idiots from ignore list who quote yahoo news who quote Kiev PR crew???

Haushofer, you may now claim your rightful place as no.2 on Dragon's ignore list, congrats!

Article by Alena Golota on Insider.ua. Translation by Tatzhit. 7/8/15.

Ukraine is slowly but surely sinking into something in between 40's and 90's - war and famine.

Thank God, there are no dead people on the streets, and no cannibalism yet, as in the Holodomor stories, but we all are becoming involuntary participants in a hunger strike. We began to eat less.

Recent data of the State Statistics Service unpleasantly surprised and horrified me - in the first quarter of 2015, Ukrainians began to spend 20% less money than before on food <despite ballooning prices - ed.>. First of all, people stopped eating meat and fish products, canned fruit - the sales are down by 37%.

Demand for fresh fish, various cereals, seafood, sausages fell by 30%. People also buy less eggs, fresh meat and vegetables - their consumption has fallen by 25%, and we saw 20% decrease in sales of beverages, butter, macaroni and confectionery products.

Consumers only increased their purchases of salt - 11% more, and margarine, by 2%. Well, that's it's in our genes already - in any crisis, buy salt.

This is very scary. We're cutting down expenses on the most valuable and irreplaceable thing - our health. After all, the Ukrainians have not abandoned "junk food" - chips, salted nuts, soda, and other crap that medical professionals caution against.

We have reduced the consumption of healthy and necessary items - fish, meat, vegetables, eggs. They are the foundation of any healthy diet, but they're expensive.

But what does our body care? How can we explain to it that there's a war on, and it will not get all the nutrients it needs?

According to nutritionists, people over 35 should eat beef 2-3 times a week with plenty of vegetables. In the other days, animal protein can come from poultry and fish.

How many of our seniors eat meat three times a week <average pension in Ukraine is less than $80/month now - ed.>? Heck, how often do working Ukrainians get meat <average salary in Ukraine is less than $175/month - ed.>? These things nutritionists talk about, we only see during celebrations.

I remember the words of one of my former bosses, a multimillionaire. He was asked at a meeting with the students: "Now, again, an economic crisis has come. What can we save on?". He said: - "On anything other than food. It's your health."

And then remember the words of Arseny Yatsenyuk, who advised the Ukrainians to "tighten their belts".

I wonder whether he tightened his belt? Do his children and wife eat 30% less meat, like rest of the country?
Are his staff workers looking for cheaper rice in the stores, because they can't avoid to pay full price?
Did he lose any weight through malnutrition?

They never skimp on food. Only on us.

Of course, we will survive. Our ancestors ate grass during the famine, will we die from eating a third less meat per capita?

Most of us won't. But we're so tired of surviving and persuading ourselves to suffer, when those responsible at the top do not suffer at all.

One good thing <about austerity>, though - we are all be nice and slim for beach season.