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97 posters
MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News
mack8- Posts : 1039
Points : 1093
Join date : 2013-08-02
medo- Posts : 4343
Points : 4423
Join date : 2010-10-24
Location : Slovenia
mack8 wrote:Here is the SMT(R)!
And stored in a new hangar.
Isos- Posts : 11379
Points : 11347
Join date : 2015-11-06
If Egypt is ready to buy 48 Mig35, why Russians keep buying SMT (even Algeria didn't want them) and not 35 ? What will be the orders for the next year ?
I'm pretty excited to see it in active service Looks better than SMT.
I'm pretty excited to see it in active service
Looks better than SMT. 
GarryB- Posts : 39671
Points : 40167
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
- Post n°504
If Egypt is ready to buy 48 Mig35, why Russians keep buying SMT
GarryB Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:07 am
The thing about aircraft shelters is that good ones are quite expensive and as shown in the gulf war they don't protect from direct hits anyway.
Having aircraft out in the open on flat ground means any artillery barrage would wipe out your entire fleet as shrapnel would scatter widely and exploding aircraft and munitions and fuel with further damage other aircraft.
The next best thing is to use berms... in other words banks of soil on three sides of aircraft parks to prevent a munition destroying more than one aircraft at a time... more expensive than nothing, but cheaper than hangars and rather more effective than nothing.
Hangars and hardened hangars allow the ground crews to operate on aircraft in more extreme climates and weather conditions but are expensive and still wont stop dedicated anti hangar ammo.
The 122mm rocket pods carry 122mm calibre rockets designed specifically to penetrate and destroy hardened aircraft shelters and the aircraft inside.
A direct hit from a medium sized bomb or concrete piercing bomb with laser or TV guidance will also do the job.
What I am trying to say is that against a spophisticated enemy it is not your hardened hangars that will save your aircraft... it will be TOR and Pantsir and S-350 and S-400 from air attack.
Regarding your other question... the MiG-35 is not in Russian Air Force service because it is not operationally ready or in serial production yet.
The original MiG-35 could be called the MiG-29M of the 1980s, and the next one could be called the aircraft offered to India. the current one offered to the Russian Air Force has not completed development yet because none of the previous aircraft called MiG-35 were designed to RuAF specs/requirements.
Likely there is a new range of air to air and air to ground weapons and sensors that also need testing and to get into serial production.
Having aircraft out in the open on flat ground means any artillery barrage would wipe out your entire fleet as shrapnel would scatter widely and exploding aircraft and munitions and fuel with further damage other aircraft.
The next best thing is to use berms... in other words banks of soil on three sides of aircraft parks to prevent a munition destroying more than one aircraft at a time... more expensive than nothing, but cheaper than hangars and rather more effective than nothing.
Hangars and hardened hangars allow the ground crews to operate on aircraft in more extreme climates and weather conditions but are expensive and still wont stop dedicated anti hangar ammo.
The 122mm rocket pods carry 122mm calibre rockets designed specifically to penetrate and destroy hardened aircraft shelters and the aircraft inside.
A direct hit from a medium sized bomb or concrete piercing bomb with laser or TV guidance will also do the job.
What I am trying to say is that against a spophisticated enemy it is not your hardened hangars that will save your aircraft... it will be TOR and Pantsir and S-350 and S-400 from air attack.
Regarding your other question... the MiG-35 is not in Russian Air Force service because it is not operationally ready or in serial production yet.
The original MiG-35 could be called the MiG-29M of the 1980s, and the next one could be called the aircraft offered to India. the current one offered to the Russian Air Force has not completed development yet because none of the previous aircraft called MiG-35 were designed to RuAF specs/requirements.
Likely there is a new range of air to air and air to ground weapons and sensors that also need testing and to get into serial production.
George1- Posts : 18400
Points : 18897
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
Ι wonder whether RuAF will order more MiG-29SMTs
medo- Posts : 4343
Points : 4423
Join date : 2010-10-24
Location : Slovenia
Isos wrote:If Egypt is ready to buy 48 Mig35, why Russians keep buying SMT (even Algeria didn't want them) and not 35 ? What will be the orders for the next year ?
I'm pretty excited to see it in active service
RuAF buy them for two simple reasons. One is, that MiG still have a lot of unfinished airframes of original MiG-29 fighters, so they could be produced quickly and cheaper and the second is, that RuAF receive new MiGs in the mean time until new MiG-35 is ready. MiG-35, which is available now is actually previous MiG-29M2 and RuNAVY receive it in the form of MiG-29K/KUB.
RuAF replace two MiG-29 regiments with Su-30SM and I think they want new Su-30SM to replace other fighters and to replace MiG-29 regiments with new MiGs.
mack8- Posts : 1039
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Join date : 2013-08-02
Thanks to Djoker
medo- Posts : 4343
Points : 4423
Join date : 2010-10-24
Location : Slovenia
I count five montage hangars around the MiG. It seems RuAF finally start provide shelters for their new fighters.
mack8- Posts : 1039
Points : 1093
Join date : 2013-08-02
What is intriguing me, is what are these new MiGs doing in Astrakhan? If they're there for weapons testing fair enough, but if they are actually consigned to that unit isn't this a waste? After all they are the newest and most capable MiG-29s in VKS so surely a frontline unit is the best place for them, not a training unit.
Given the numbers we know, i.e. 34 SMT/UBM in service since 2009 plus 20 SMT(R)/UBM(R) under delivery, this is enough to equip two full regiments totaling 48 aircraft, still leaving a few for Lipetsk and Akhtubinsk.
Given the numbers we know, i.e. 34 SMT/UBM in service since 2009 plus 20 SMT(R)/UBM(R) under delivery, this is enough to equip two full regiments totaling 48 aircraft, still leaving a few for Lipetsk and Akhtubinsk.
franco- Posts : 6796
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Join date : 2010-08-18
mack8 wrote:What is intriguing me, is what are these new MiGs doing in Astrakhan? If they're there for weapons testing fair enough, but if they are actually consigned to that unit isn't this a waste? After all they are the newest and most capable MiG-29s in VKS so surely a frontline unit is the best place for them, not a training unit.
Given the numbers we know, i.e. 34 SMT/UBM in service since 2009 plus 20 SMT(R)/UBM(R) under delivery, this is enough to equip two full regiments totaling 48 aircraft, still leaving a few for Lipetsk and Akhtubinsk.
Heard they will replace the aircraft in Armenia, perhaps stationed here until all are ready to deploy. SAT images of Astrakhan lead me to believe that not too many of the Mig's there are operational.
George1- Posts : 18400
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Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
So the only active units are in Kursk with 34xMiG-2SMT, in Armenia that will go these new 20 SMTs and in Milerovo where some old MiG-29s are stationed. All the other aircrafts are in training units
franco- Posts : 6796
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Join date : 2010-08-18
George1 wrote:So the only active units are in Kursk with 34xMiG-2SMT, in Armenia that will go these new 20 SMTs and in Milerovo where some old MiG-29s are stationed. All the other aircrafts are in training units
Combat operational Mig-29's left are in Kursk (SMT's), Armenia (9.13S's with some upgrade) and Milerovo (suppose to be 9.13's).
George1- Posts : 18400
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Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
New MiG-29 Jets to be Deployed to Russian Airbase in Armenia
After being fully repaired, MiG-29 fourth generation jet fighters will be deployed to the Russian airbase in Erebuni to protect Armenian airspace.
A group of MiG-29 multirole jet fighters will be deployed to the Russian airbase Erebuni in Armenia in the second half of 2016, the press office of the Russian Southern Military District reported.
MiG-29 jets which will be deployed to the airbase after being fully repaired have been used to protect Armenia’s airspace within the joint air defense systems of the CIS. They have also been involved in regular training flights in accordance with the combat readiness program.
"In the second half of 2016, a new unit of MiG-29 fourth-generation multirole jets as well as a Mi-8 transport helicopter will be deployed to the Erebuni airbase, in Armenia," according to the report.
The military underscored that after the New Year holiday season preparations will start at the airfield for the new aircraft, including building storage housing modules.
In November 1998, Russia deployed the first MiG-29 jets to the Erebuni airbase. In July 2001, an air force unit was formed from the aircraft deployed to the base.
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20160105/1032710383/mig-29-armenia-base.html#ixzz3wPwreZYu
After being fully repaired, MiG-29 fourth generation jet fighters will be deployed to the Russian airbase in Erebuni to protect Armenian airspace.
A group of MiG-29 multirole jet fighters will be deployed to the Russian airbase Erebuni in Armenia in the second half of 2016, the press office of the Russian Southern Military District reported.
MiG-29 jets which will be deployed to the airbase after being fully repaired have been used to protect Armenia’s airspace within the joint air defense systems of the CIS. They have also been involved in regular training flights in accordance with the combat readiness program.
"In the second half of 2016, a new unit of MiG-29 fourth-generation multirole jets as well as a Mi-8 transport helicopter will be deployed to the Erebuni airbase, in Armenia," according to the report.
The military underscored that after the New Year holiday season preparations will start at the airfield for the new aircraft, including building storage housing modules.
In November 1998, Russia deployed the first MiG-29 jets to the Erebuni airbase. In July 2001, an air force unit was formed from the aircraft deployed to the base.
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20160105/1032710383/mig-29-armenia-base.html#ixzz3wPwreZYu
George1- Posts : 18400
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So in Armenia will be deployed old repaired MiG-29s and not the new SMTs??
franco- Posts : 6796
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Join date : 2010-08-18
George1 wrote:So in Armenia will be deployed old repaired MiG-29s and not the new SMTs??
Could be a misquote.
flamming_python- Posts : 9284
Points : 9346
Join date : 2012-01-30
George1 wrote:So in Armenia will be deployed old repaired MiG-29s and not the new SMTs??
If the new unit is deployed in addition to the existing one though, then that's still great news.
GarryB- Posts : 39671
Points : 40167
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
I would guess that the upgrade likely included replacements for old components with new ones.
It might not get the full SMT upgrade but the replacement of certain components with newer components developed for the SMT upgrade would be expected.
Many of the new features and systems on the SMT upgrade were focused on reduced maintainence costs and ease of maintainence. It would only make sense to introduce such things as it will make operational costs rather less and also maintainence cheaper and simpler.
A bit like ripping out all the old components and replacing them with more modern components that do the same thing... ie like taking an old computer and rearranging its internal components and systems to make them compatible with current systems... ie convert to an ATX motherboard with a standard ATX power supply etc etc
It might not get the full SMT upgrade but the replacement of certain components with newer components developed for the SMT upgrade would be expected.
Many of the new features and systems on the SMT upgrade were focused on reduced maintainence costs and ease of maintainence. It would only make sense to introduce such things as it will make operational costs rather less and also maintainence cheaper and simpler.
A bit like ripping out all the old components and replacing them with more modern components that do the same thing... ie like taking an old computer and rearranging its internal components and systems to make them compatible with current systems... ie convert to an ATX motherboard with a standard ATX power supply etc etc
George1- Posts : 18400
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Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
GarryB wrote:I would guess that the upgrade likely included replacements for old components with new ones.
It might not get the full SMT upgrade but the replacement of certain components with newer components developed for the SMT upgrade would be expected.
Many of the new features and systems on the SMT upgrade were focused on reduced maintainence costs and ease of maintainence. It would only make sense to introduce such things as it will make operational costs rather less and also maintainence cheaper and simpler.
A bit like ripping out all the old components and replacing them with more modern components that do the same thing... ie like taking an old computer and rearranging its internal components and systems to make them compatible with current systems... ie convert to an ATX motherboard with a standard ATX power supply etc etc
i mean these replacement aircrafts will not be ones of 16-20 new MiG-29SMTs that are being procured under order from MoD
medo- Posts : 4343
Points : 4423
Join date : 2010-10-24
Location : Slovenia
George1 wrote:So in Armenia will be deployed old repaired MiG-29s and not the new SMTs??
This is what they wrote. They will be repaired ones, not new build MiG-29SMTs. They also wrote, that new MiGs will be multirole, so we could assume, they will get some upgrades. Maybe they will replace the old radar with Zhuk-M radar and maybe old RWR with Pastel and it will not be much worse than SMT.
JohninMK- Posts : 15132
Points : 15273
Join date : 2015-06-16
Location : England
If these aircraft are being deployed in 6 months (no hint it would be a phased deployment) it doesn't leave a lot of time to do much work on them. Certainly nothing fundamental.
medo- Posts : 4343
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Join date : 2010-10-24
Location : Slovenia
JohninMK wrote:If these aircraft are being deployed in 6 months (no hint it would be a phased deployment) it doesn't leave a lot of time to do much work on them. Certainly nothing fundamental.
Why you think this planes will be repaired in the next six months? Most probably RuAF plan this for some time and those planes could be in the process of repairs and upgrades for some time in one of repair plants.
JohninMK- Posts : 15132
Points : 15273
Join date : 2015-06-16
Location : England
Good point, within the words of the announcement I had not considered that work could be already underway. Mind you, there is no mention of any upgrade. This could just be a 3rd line maintenance job and new paint.medo wrote:JohninMK wrote:If these aircraft are being deployed in 6 months (no hint it would be a phased deployment) it doesn't leave a lot of time to do much work on them. Certainly nothing fundamental.
Why you think this planes will be repaired in the next six months? Most probably RuAF plan this for some time and those planes could be in the process of repairs and upgrades for some time in one of repair plants.
franco- Posts : 6796
Points : 6822
Join date : 2010-08-18
MOSCOW, Jan 5 - RIA Novosti. The Russian airbase in Erebuni Armenia in the second half of 2016 added a new multi-party front-line MiG-29 fighters, said on Tuesday the press service of the Southern Military District.
The MiG-29, supplied to the Russian military base after the aircraft overhaul, protect the air borders of Armenia in the framework of the united air defense system of the CIS countries, and regularly carry out training flights according to the standards of the program of combat training compound.
Russian base in Armenia strengthened the combat and transport helicopters
"In the second half of 2016 the Russian air base Erebuni stationed in the Republic of Armenia, the new party will arrive multi-purpose light frontline fighter fourth generation MiG-29 and one transport helicopter Mi-8" - the report says.
The press service noted that after the New Year holidays engineers and technicians will begin to prepare the compound at the airport specially equipped parking for new aircraft, including special collapsible modules for storage of aircraft and helicopters.
In November 1998, the base Erebuni were relocated from the Russian multipurpose fighter MiG-29. In July 2001, of the outstanding units in Erebuni air base was formed.
The MiG-29, supplied to the Russian military base after the aircraft overhaul, protect the air borders of Armenia in the framework of the united air defense system of the CIS countries, and regularly carry out training flights according to the standards of the program of combat training compound.
Russian base in Armenia strengthened the combat and transport helicopters
"In the second half of 2016 the Russian air base Erebuni stationed in the Republic of Armenia, the new party will arrive multi-purpose light frontline fighter fourth generation MiG-29 and one transport helicopter Mi-8" - the report says.
The press service noted that after the New Year holidays engineers and technicians will begin to prepare the compound at the airport specially equipped parking for new aircraft, including special collapsible modules for storage of aircraft and helicopters.
In November 1998, the base Erebuni were relocated from the Russian multipurpose fighter MiG-29. In July 2001, of the outstanding units in Erebuni air base was formed.
franco- Posts : 6796
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Join date : 2010-08-18
From this article and others, NEW Mig-29s arrive in the second half of 2016.
Previous story was that some upgrades were made to the squadron of Mig-29S's and they were sent to Armenia some time towards the end of 2014 or early 2015.
Perhaps as FP suggests a couple of days ago, there will be BOTH types in Armenia.
And the media story is mixing the two separate events together.
Again, time will tell.
Previous story was that some upgrades were made to the squadron of Mig-29S's and they were sent to Armenia some time towards the end of 2014 or early 2015.
Perhaps as FP suggests a couple of days ago, there will be BOTH types in Armenia.
And the media story is mixing the two separate events together.
Again, time will tell.
franco- Posts : 6796
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Join date : 2010-08-18
This article suggests that the 16 new aircraft includes the UBT's or UBM's.
http://www.janes.com/article/56984/russia-receives-its-first-ordered-mig-29smts
http://www.janes.com/article/56984/russia-receives-its-first-ordered-mig-29smts
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