Talking bollocks thread

Gay marriage promotion...oh lord.

Yeah treating people without irrational phobias and ignorance is the way to go.
Russia is in the last century in regards to gays. It is embarrassing.

"While western leaders are imposing same-sex marriage legislation, Putin, at the request of the Orthodox Church, has introduced severe anti-homosexual laws across the Russian Federation."

Pathetic. Passing laws that prohibit people's rights because the Church asked us to!
LOL! Absolutely pathetic and retarded.
Especially when its the bloody Orthadox Church, one of the biggest organizd shitstains on the planet.
Russian priests are particular paragons of ignorance, idiocy and uselessness.

Yeah lets promote gay marriages, children being raised by poofters and dykes all in the name of people's rights to be degenerates....way to go. Forget about the laws of nature and society, liberal fukwits know better. Not only do I find that pathetic and stupid but utterly revolting and disgusting!!!  

Next you'll be telling me about the rights of pedophiles, necrophiliacs....

Gay marriage and adoption of children by gay people is not the end of the road. More will come shortly that will shock even more.

Cyberspec wrote:Yeah lets promote gay marriages, children being raised by poofters and dykes all in the name of people's rights to be degenerates....way to go. Forget about the laws of nature and society, liberal fukwits know better. Not only do I find that pathetic and stupid but utterly revolting and disgusting!!!  

Next you'll be telling me about the rights of pedophiles, necrophiliacs....

Only a true moron would compare pedophiles, necrophiliacs, and gays.
Two consensual adults engaging in a relationship HOW TERRIBLE.


What a sad life, to be so ignorant and homophobic.

There is ZERO link between gay parents and their kids 1.) having worse lives 2) becoming gay due to upbringing.
Straight people do a good enough job of making terrible homes for children (especially if we wanna talk of some alcaholics in a backwater Russian village) and making a joke out of marriage, every day (divorce rates, for example).

Anybody who takes the time to learn about the subject, without resorting to "Ewww, gays, I dont like it!" or "the church said its bad!" loses the irrational fear and hatred of blacks.

Sorry guys, the winds of change will come, if you like it not.
Even in backwards ass (in this respect) Russia. Just wait.

I'll admit by the way, I used to be anti-gay. Back when I was a stupid kid.

EDIT: When I said blacks, I means gays.
Though it is funny how similar arguments were made by racists that are made by homophobes today. I equate the two, either way.
Both based on lame, made up arguments on constructs like "natural law" and "societal norms", both based on simple fear and ignorance.

Spare me your ridiculous moralising BS....what a brainwashed sheep. I feel pity for you.

This isn't about being homophobic but about changing the definition of marriage and through it societal norms. It's being pushed by a loud, well organised, well funded, aggressive minority over the will of the overwhelming majority of the population. And all the "winds of change" will achieve is a violent backlash against this artificial social engineering (gay marriage is just part of it).

If you enjoy sucking cock and taking it up your behind in your spare time that's fine by me. Just don't try to shove it my face and tell me it's something I should be preaching to my kids.

Here's the thing though- nobody is shoving it in your face. Nobody is converting people to be gay.
You might find it disgusting - guess what? I also find the thought of two men doing it to be gross, but it should be said I also find the thought of 99% of straight couples doing the dirty to be nasty. Most people are just unnatractive, so it is natural. This is all completely irrelevant to the gay rights struggle however. No one is forcing you to partake in gay orgies. They ARE fighting so that people don't stick their goddam "arguments" based on psuedo-science and attempts at moralizing sexual and romantic relations, into the privacy of their lives.
There has been a HISTORY of systemic anti-gay prejudice in both legal and social spheres, pretty much across the world. THIS is the reason why there is an open fight for gay equality.
Homophobia destroys lives of people who might otherwise lead a productive and good life. In this it is no different from racism, or any other oppression against a group that is not "in-line" with some form of societal standard.
Pretending like they have it good and well, and are shoving their fight in your face is the most absurd denial I have ever seen.
The second homophobia dispersal, is the second that gay-rights activism stops.

I am not concerned with what people chose to do in their lives, and who they choose to bang in their homes.
Why are you? It is funny how many virulent ant-gays get caught with a same sex prostitute or something similarly scandalous.
It is also funny when some conservative, anti-gay politicians change their views when they have a gay child.

Gays are people just like you and me. They are not out to get you.
Why are people so defensive over their supposed morals and "sacred" rights to marriage? Marriage is not something created by nature, it is a social construct we chose to live with. It works for some, doesn't for others. How exactly is gay marriage ruining YOUR straight marriage?
You understand that straights are pretty much 100% responsible for marriage being a joke in many ways today? Let's take a look at all the pathetic 24 hour marriages, the enormous divorce rates, the disgusting lawsuits that take place over monetary divides during divorces....

The majority argument is absurd. The majority across much of the world once though enslaving others was ok, based on irrational prejudices.

I'm aware of all those arguments and I STRONGLY disagree. It's just a weak, thinly veiled cop-out and sloganeering trying to equate racism, gender equality with this.

And yes they're shoving it in my face. Unless you've been in a cave in recent years, it's being constantly preached to the public....day in, day out. The economies are collapsing, unemployemnt is rising, but the No: 1 news is gay marriage and gay rights. You'd think we haven't got more important issues to worry about.

Just for the record about what I wrote earlier: there is an undeniable connection between homosexuality and pedophilia. The VAST majority of victims are young boys that are abused by adult men. Or take for example past societies or even modern cultures where homosexuality is/was accepted as the norm. It always involves pedophilia as well.

TR1 wrote:Especially when its the bloody Orthadox Church, one of the biggest organizd shitstains on the planet.
Russian priests are particular paragons of ignorance, idiocy and uselessness.

So you're saying you fight stereotypes by stereotyping? Makes sense...
I'll have you know that one of my best friends is an Orthodox Priest and he's got more intellect in his little pinky than many of the people I know with PhD's have in their brain even if used to full capacity.

TR1 wrote:Here's the thing though- nobody is shoving it in your face. Nobody is converting people to be gay.

I have no problem with people choosing whatever suits them best, and no one claimed that people are being converted into being gay. It's inserting gay or any other culture (by force) people have a problem with.

TR! wrote:Gays are people just like you and me. They are not out to get you.

Patronizing is the argument of inferiority masquerading as superiority.

TR1 wrote:I am not concerned with what people chose to do in their lives, and who they choose to bang in their homes.

Neither am I. I do have a problem with people parading their sexuality, be they gay or straight.

Tr1 wrote:Marriage is not something created by nature, it is a social construct we chose to live with.

A failed argument if one considers other species.

TR1 wrote:What a sad life, to be so ignorant and homophobic.

True.

TR1 wrote:There is ZERO link between gay parents and their kids 1.) having worse lives 2) becoming gay due to upbringing.

There were studies about this, you know. With conflicting results. People tend to believe the studies that fit their agenda.

TR1 wrote:I'll admit by the way, I used to be anti-gay. Back when I was a stupid kid.

Being homophobic is indeed stupid. As is pushing a gay agenda, which you seem to be doing now.

Cyberspec wrote:I'm aware of all those arguments and I STRONGLY disagree. It's just a  weak, thinly veiled cop-out and sloganeering trying to equate racism, gender equality with this.

I don't see how. Prejudice is prejudice. You don't like people because of their biological attraction to the same sex. Why? It has no rational basis, whatsoever.

And yes they're shoving it in my face. Unless you've been in a cave in recent years, it's being constantly preached to the public....day in, day out. The economies are collapsing, unemployemnt is rising, but the No: 1 news is gay marriage and gay rights. You'd think we haven't got more important issues to worry about.

Ugh, come on. First of all, I don't know where you live, but everywhere I see, the economy, the middle east, etc etc are no lesser issues. Just because you feel that there are other concerns, does not dilute the importance of a fight against injustice.

Just for the record about what I wrote earlier: there is an undeniable connection between homosexuality and pedophilia. The VAST majority of victims are young boys that are abused by adult men. Or take for example past societies or even modern cultures where homosexuality is/was accepted as the norm. It always involves pedophilia as well.
This is grade A poppycock.
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/09/18/903178/-Gays-are-pedophiles-No-Here-s-the-proof
Do a little research. That logic is retarded.

10 chars.

macedonian wrote:

So you're saying you fight stereotypes by stereotyping? Makes sense...
I'll have you know that one of my best friends is an Orthodox Priest and he's got more intellect in his little pinky than many of the people I know with PhD's have in their brain even if used to full capacity.

Read more carefully. I said the Church as an institution. DO you really need a history of the gross prejudices that Churches have been behind? The sort of medieval thinking they often espous?
Your friend could be a great person. There are perfectly honest and good people who are priests, Imams, Rabiis, whatever. If they need faith to drive themselves, that is fine by me, though I think religious belief is silly on the basis of being a bunch of magic tales. However, all i ask is they don't push THEIR belief (grounded in freaking books filled with fairy tales) on others in the public and legal sphere.  

I have no problem with people choosing whatever suits them best, and no one claimed that people are being converted into being gay. It's inserting gay or any other culture (by force) people have a problem with.

How can I make this any clearer. NOBODY IS TRYING TO CHANGE CULTURE. people want to GET RID of the massive social, legal, political, etc etc barriers to gays. THe second gays do not face hurdles due to their orientation, is the second that the movement ends, and you will see Gay Pride parades and such wind down. Gays having rights DOES NOTHING to change how you live your life. Dear lord, where do you people get this fear?!?


Patronizing is the argument of inferiority masquerading as superiority.
It is a fact that there is not a single rational anti-gay rights argument. It is also a fact that most of them are based on fear and ignorance. It is like arguing with children.


Neither am I. I do have a problem with people parading their sexuality, be they gay or straight.

Are you guys trying to act dumb? Come on.... why do you think people have gay pride parade? Randomly? No. They are a result of systemic history of homopobia. They are a chance for people who have their identity attacked and suppressed for decades to act out against it. What the hell about it bothers you so much? Let people parade all they want. I lived in SF for years. I was not bothered by a single parade. They are easy to avoid if you are so inclined. They don't harm anyone. ANd LIKE I SAID, if the gay rights movement is succesful, then parades will end, with time.


A failed argument if one considers other species.

Uh what? Please elaborate. There is homosexuality in nature to boot.

There were studies about this, you know. With conflicting results. People tend to believe the studies that fit their agenda.
I would love to see some unbiased fair studies about gay parents being bad BECAUSE of their homosexuality. Or of converting kids to be gay. In the meantime, there is clear evidence that gays are as fit to be parents as you or me. SEXUAL ORIENTATION HAS NO EFFECT ON PARENTHOOD, dear god.


Being homophobic is indeed stupid. As is pushing a gay agenda, which you seem to be doing now.
What the hell is the gay agenda? My only agenda is that people get over their irrational fears and ignorance, and stop pushing their own insecurities and beliefs on others. As long as gays face opression and hurdles due to their orientation, I will support gay rights.

I suck @ multiquote, so I bolded my responses.

Btw, read up guys.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_parenting

Overwhelming scientific consensus agrees with me. But the Church knows better right?

I am not saying you HAVe to become a gay rights crusader. I am not saying you have to care. I am not saying you have to go to gay rights parades.
But there is a difference between that, and applauding the Church for influencing the Russian gov to pass anti-gay legislation.
It is not protecting Russian "culture"
It is not saving Russian kids (fucking lol @ this one, Russian kids have a total shit time in many parts of the country, all due to straight Russians)
It is not impacting you in any way, by removing roadblocks to gays living the same life you are.
It IS a terrible stain on the concept of separating Church and state. Do you guys REALLY need me to point out what is dangerous about this?!?! Seriously?!?! Dear God, no pun intended.

I'll throw my 2 kopeks in.

I have a sister whom is gay. She does not go about and promote being gay or push her views on others about being gay and what not. But, she does not promote the idea of people who do go about their way, dressing indecently and shoving in our faces that they are gay.

Being gay is a choice, at that, it is their personal preference. Key word here is "personal". It belongs behind close doors. There are many here, whom are gay, who will go about their days, dressed like everyone else, doing the job they are supposed to do, and who do NOT engage in indecent manner outside of their home by dressing in assless leather chaps and have signs everywhere saying "I'm queer and I am proud" or anything like that. Those who do, are attention seekers, and want to shove whatever it is in our face. I do not promote that one bit, and many of them do not.

This bill is aimed at those. It is pretty much telling people "What is your business is your business, and you do it behind close doors". Now, a law like this could be abused and innocent people whom are gay could get hurt, and I do not condone such acts. Let us hope that this law will only just tell gays to be themselves behind closed doors, and that is that, and leave it to it.

Being gay is not a choice, first of all.

You are delusional if you think this bill is anything but an extension of Russias homophobic culture.
Fighting for equal rights is NOT shoving anything in your face. You don't have to go to Gay Rights parades. You don't have to support them at all. All people ask, is you don't impede them.

Do you people really not get why Gay Pride parades exist? I will give you a hint- BECAUSE OF OPPRESSION OF GAY FOLKS.
IT EXISTS! IN RUSSIA ESPECIALLY! Being ignorant of it is NOT an argument for people to "keep it to themselves". If homophobic thought was kept to itself, we wouldn't even have this problem from the start!

You guys just don't get it. And this is exactly why homophobia is allowed to exist, because gays should "shut up and not stick it in our face".

This bill is retarded. Propaganda about untraditional sexual practices? What the hell does that even mean? Is contraception going to be prohibited? Safe sex education? Gays reaching out to each other is not corrupting propoganda FFS. Nobody will turn gay because of it. The idiots in our Duma think kids will be turned gay if they are exposed to the knowledge of gays. I dont even.....
Government control of the public sphere expanding, what a good step! Pffff.

This law is clearly aimed at gays.

Maybe some of you guys need to wake up and spend some more time in Russia.

TR1 wrote:Gay marriage promotion...oh lord.


Pathetic. Passing laws that prohibit people's rights because the Church asked us to!
LOL! Absolutely pathetic and retarded.
Especially when its the bloody Orthadox Church, one of the biggest organizd shitstains on the planet.
Russian priests are particular paragons of ignorance, idiocy and uselessness.

Considering that you are a non-Christian originating from Dagestan, you should refrain from posting garbage like that.
I don't mind other people disagreeing with my beliefs, views and opinions. But I find your post to be very disrespectful, rude and inappropriate.
I am very disappointed at you.

TR1, you really do not get it.
 
Are gay people stopped in the streets for being gay?  Are they dragged out of their homes by police?  Do they face prison sentances for being gay?  I HIGHLY doubt that, just like they do not get that treatment over here in Canada.  Yet, they still parade around indecently shoving in my face that they are gay.  Canada is probably one of the few countries in this world were they allow gay marriage.  Yet, they still have gay pride parades, and it has NOTHING to do with rights.  It is all about people being pigs and wanting to say "Hey, look at me! I am special or different than you!".  It is really pathetic.  What is even more pathetic are the people who think that it will sway the minds of others from "I really don't care if you are gay" or "I dont like gays" to "Hey, I do care" or "They are awesome people!"  I don't see how people wearing indecent clothing, shouting at me, and acting indecent is going to change my opinion on them, other than on a negative effect.
 
Once again, you are talking to someone who actually has a gay relative, one close to them.  I doubt you have someone in your life like that other than "a friend".

TheArmenian wrote:

TR1 wrote:Gay marriage promotion...oh lord.


Pathetic. Passing laws that prohibit people's rights because the Church asked us to!
LOL! Absolutely pathetic and retarded.
Especially when its the bloody Orthadox Church, one of the biggest organizd shitstains on the planet.
Russian priests are particular paragons of ignorance, idiocy and uselessness.

Considering that you are a non-Christian originating from Dagestan, you should refrain from posting garbage like that.
I don't mind other people disagreeing with my beliefs, views and opinions. But I find your post to be very disrespectful, rude and inappropriate.
I am very disappointed at you.

A sheep telling another sheep that he is a sheep. That is what I got out of TR1's post.

There is no need to have anti gay laws in Russia. General population is homophobic, to that level that open gays are lynched.
There was a gay lynched, sodomised and killed by his own friends in Volgograd on Victory parade. It was very wrong time to come out of the closet. Funny to say but Anti gay laws only protect gays from violence they provoke. Not so long ago In Soviet union homosexuality was criminalised and things were worse for them

Well, from biological point of view homosexualism is a deviation, just like schizophrenia or sociopathy. It is not considered an ilness solely due to political reasons - gays are being used by various leftist organizations as a tool aimed at destroying tradiitional, "reactionary" values.

I'm homophobic. I don't feel comfortable when I have to deal with gay people. First it is because I don't want to insult them or be too nice and not get advanced by them. Might sound stupid but I don't want to be judged too.
Well in the end of the day it's what You fancy for a shag. Can't put it more eloquently than that. And that's not my business and not yours.
Live and let live.
Church should stay out from politics. Soviet union supressed religion and now it spread like a wild weed... I grew up in society where atheism was a norm. I never got baptized. Religion was ridiculised even in Murzilka magazine for kids. I'm more afraid my child will become priest, nun rather than gay

TR1 is Dagestani? Avar...Dagestani....it turns out I'm more Russian considering my not so distant heritage  

At least now I can sort of understand why he didn't get the point I was making but keeps rambling on about rights and denigrates Russia's church every chance he gets.

Anyway, we've all made our point I think and should probably call a ceasefire since this isn't a forum about poofters and their so called rights.

Cyberspec wrote:TR1 is Dagestani? Avar...Dagestani....it turns out I'm more Russian considering my not so distant heritage  

At least now I can sort of understand why he didn't get the point I was making but keeps rambling on about rights and denigrates Russia's church every chance he gets.

Anyway, we've all made our point I think and should probably call a ceasefire since this isn't a forum about poofters and their so called rights.

1.) who cares what I am? Does being Slavic make a Russian? Thats absurd, though I'm sure you are joking. I am a Russian citizen, and by the looks of it I have spent more time in Russia than 99% of the forumers here. Mind you, that doesn't discount people's opinions, not on the basis of origin or ethnicity or whatever alone. Ignorance (not an insult in itself, I will freely admit I am ignorant on most topics) however does.
2.) One has to be Slavic and Russian to dislike gays, be against their struggle for rights, and agree to the Russian Church influence the Russian state? In that case I am very glad I am not Slavic. Hell, if I wanted to be a dick I could theorize Russian history of serfdom has created a genetic predisposition to blindly following "established" culture and what the guys up top, be they Church and State, tell you to think. But nah, I am not going to go there, because I don't believe in biological determinism as an influence in thinking or way of life. Thats bullcrap IMO, and dangerous bullcrap at that.
3.) This point, I can agree to.

I will leave one thing: I am not trying to insult anyones character here.
Just do me one small favor - try to put aside inbuilt feelings of "Ewww gays", and look at things from their perspective. Like I said, these are people, like you and me, children often suffering from identity crises in societies that are very much against them.
Do a little research on common anti-gay attitudes and perceptions, if only for the sake of seeing what the other side has to say.

Oh and I am not just anti-Orthadox. I am equal opportunity Church basher.

As Sa'iqa wrote:Well, from biological point of view homosexualism is a deviation, just like schizophrenia or sociopathy. It is not considered an ilness solely due to political reasons - gays are being used by various leftist organizations as a tool aimed at destroying tradiitional, "reactionary" values.

Ok, so straight couples who have sex without making kids, are also deviants. Anal sex- DEVIANTS. Felattio- DEVIANTS. CONDOMS- worst deviants of all.

No thanks, I don't want to live in such a society.

Yes homosexuality is a "mutation" genetically speaking. But it occurs in massive numbers (if we look on a global scale, as % of population). It does not impede people in living productive lives IN ANY WAY. All it changes is their personal relationships. Comparing Homosexuality to mental diseases like you listed, is offensive as hell, and bloody stupid.

Nobody would care about homosexuality (lots of ancient cultures did not) if we did not have socially constructed homophobia built up in past centuries.

I really wish you guys would have a friend or someone in your personal lives come out as gay. You might actually learn they are people like us, and not deviants.

TheArmenian wrote:

TR1 wrote:Gay marriage promotion...oh lord.


Pathetic. Passing laws that prohibit people's rights because the Church asked us to!
LOL! Absolutely pathetic and retarded.
Especially when its the bloody Orthadox Church, one of the biggest organizd shitstains on the planet.
Russian priests are particular paragons of ignorance, idiocy and uselessness.

Considering that you are a non-Christian originating from Dagestan, you should refrain from posting garbage like that.
I don't mind other people disagreeing with my beliefs, views and opinions. But I find your post to be very disrespectful, rude and inappropriate.
I am very disappointed at you.

Once again, my origin or lack of religious beliefs has nothing to do with any of it. I will critisize corrupt, backwards, and awfull for human-development groups if I desire so. If anything, it frees me from biases that you guys are clearly influenced by.

The Orthodox Church in Russia is EXTREMELY conservative and regressive, to the point of stupidity. Probably closest to the corruption and excesses that the Catholic CHurch had hundreds of years ago than anyone else today.
They are borderline openly racist at times, severely homophobic, anti-science or any form of societal progress and corrupt as shit.

I don't know what alternate reality you guys live in, but this is the situation, today. Wake up.
You want to practice the teachings of Jesus Christ? Be my guest, it is far from the worst way of living life. But don't tie yourself in with these TRUE degenerates:
http://rt.com/news/patriarch-watch-photo-scandal-326/

Yes Father, preach a good austere CHristian life while driving around in S600s , eating caviar with Putin and wearing a Rolex.

Of course, this does not discount there being very good infuelntial religious priests, often @ the lower levels. These guys do admirable work in bridging religious divides. I think it is an uphill battle, since fundamentally its hard to bring logic and reason into religion, but that's just me.

Oh and by the way, since many of you are hung up about me being from Dagestan (which no offense, is ridiculous), I will say the return of Islam, especially non Sufism to the Kavkaz has been a maaaasive step backwords.
So much brainwashing going on with young kids now, it is terrible.

Best thing we had in USSR, lack of state religion.
How ANYONE can support the Church (ANY CHURCH) influencing political and legal processes, is beyond me.

" Best thing we had in USSR, lack of state religion."
X2!

I'm not gonna bash religions as whole. Hey believe what You want people, be it Flying spagetti monster- i'll respect that. One can even apply same reasoning like You about gays.
Religion is not natural. Not even single animal gives a crap about it. Religion propaganda is being pushed to children. Most of the time against their will. Not all priests are pedophiles, but there is undeniable connection, their track record is bad and getting worse. Soviet union did some studies and found out that religious people are way more prone to mental diseases than atheists, they are worse students, they are more prone to suicide and they are less productive in society. Tradition family for me is the one that doesn't believe in supreme beings, just like the one I remember in 80s

TR1 wrote:How ANYONE can support the Church (ANY CHURCH) influencing political and legal processes, is beyond me.

Now you have a problem with the Church as well . I maybe English but I have visited Moscow often .

All that the Russian Orthodox church has said is that blacks , asians and gays should not be allowed entry into the church . This is nothing new . They were just quoting from the Bible where it is clearly mentioned beyond any modicum of doubt that asians, blacks , gays are an inferior breed and can therefore not be allowed entry into a church . That's the reason why the Pope or the Archbishop of Canterbury can never be asian , black or gay .

Forced multiculturalism that is being shoved down the throats of Europeans are forcing churches to accept these asians , blacks and gays as members .

The blacks , asians , gays can always practice some other un scientific religion like Hindooism , Buddhism etc .

NickM wrote:

The blacks , asians , gays can always practice some other un scientific religion like Hindooism , Buddhism etc .

Yeah White religions are known for being paragons of science.

LMAOOOOOO

I see Nick's racism is as strong as ever.

NickM where have You been again? What was that Tserkv where asians are not allowed?