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    Iran Air Force (IRIAF) | News and Discussions

    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:57 am

    "......By separating pods I suspect you mean disposable jammers and decoys... that is something different... that could be as simple as a couple of S-13 122mm calibre five shot rocket pods with disposable jammers and decoys/drones.Towed jammers can also be carried too but that is something else too..." Yes , that is what I mean . I am not too happy about non-stealthy planes confronting stealthy planes , with Radar switched on AND  ECM pods advertising location too .


    "...Don't get too fixated with F-35s... having a ballistic missile response is worth 1,000 F-35s... the west does not tend to attack countries that can strike back...." Yes , I was thinking about this too . The F35 attack will form part of their tactics . After they use cruise missile from B2 or B52 or Sub or Ship at sea . These have 3700 km range and are fitted with conventional warhead . Against B2 , very difficult to intercept by Air at 3700 km from border for Iran . Maybe Russia can do it , with long range plane and very long range AA missile . But intercepting cruise closer in , like in Syria , seems to be more cost effective method . Ship and Sub launched cruise can be dealt with effectively by Iranian Subs at sea . How many cruise missiles can they fire ? How many AD missiles , will Iran need to intercept ? How many cruise will get through ? I have to assume that , they will in the medium or long term , win the war of numbers . And once SEAD operation is made an impact, then they will come in with F35 and then F18.........


    "...but I think your ballistic missiles are your trump card... load a few up with pamphlets and land some in populated areas... self destruct them at safe altitudes of course... the sway of propaganda in a message to the locals would be turned sour if the rocket lands on someones house and wipes out their family like a US drone strike... " Agree . Once the war gets to a stage , where they have air superiority and are bombing at will , then as we talked before , symbolic attacks by ICBM against monuments can be done . Or detonation of strong flares at altitude . Or EMP . Or plastic mini-leaflet that will survive the trip and fall to Earth .This should not provoke a Nuclear response . But if it does , so be it !

    "....Obviously the Russians wont sell to Iran at the same prices they buy themselves, but the MiG-29M should be $60 million or rather less on the export market and would be much more capable than this Chinese aircraft... it might end up $70 million if they want licence production but then they would have the same issues with the Chinese plane getting more expensive with licence production rights.... "


    And what is the cost of an Iran defeated and destroyed by USA or a Nuclear attack on Iran by USA , for Russia and the world ? A not too unrealistic prospect ?



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    Post  JohninMK Tue Jan 04, 2022 6:21 am

    nomadski wrote:"
    And what is the cost of  an Iran defeated and destroyed by USA or a Nuclear attack on Iran by USA ,  for Russia and the world ? A not too unrealistic prospect ?


    The main cost, if it doesn't spin into WW3, will be the destruction of Israel.

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    Post  nomadski Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:57 pm

    If the world realises that collective security is needed in this world , to keep the peace , then they would not insist on destroying Iran Nuclear programme and they would do everything to arm Iran , in a way to maintain the balance of forces in the region and globally . Only then is there a chance for peace . The alternative as you said is regional or global destruction . Here the Israel minister still thinks a war with Iran is winnable !


    Israeli FM Vows to Counter 'Iranian Threat,' Says Israel Has Capabilities Some 'Cannot Even Imagine'


    https://sputniknews.com/20220101/israeli-fm-vows-to-counter-iranian-threat-says-israel-has-capabilities-some-cannot-even-imagine-1091954027.html


    Yes I can imagine ! They have a Death star in orbit !


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EgsQCI5MkyE

    Remember Armageddon is in Israel , not Iran !
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    Post  crod Wed Jan 05, 2022 2:04 am


    This is all nothing but purchase talk porn…Russia won’t be supplying any such systems to Iran. It won’t disrupt its relationship with the jews.

    Putin is losing patience with the EU/US/UK... does that extend to Israel too... especially with the recent attacks in Syria using Russian planes as cover for attacks on civilian ports...

    Maybe this is a back the **** up offer... if Israel changes policy and the west changes policy then perhaps they might only sell Su-30s instead of Su-35s, and MiG-29Ms instead of MiG-35s... but then AUKUS might have pissed France off so much Iran might be getting Rafales gifted to them soon anyway....  Twisted Evil [/quote]

    Might be losing patience but that doesn’t mean he’s willing to take on the agro of supplying such systems to Iran - I just don’t see Russia taking it on. I’d put a tenner on it.

    Russia most likely blames Iran as much as it does isreal, who is just boxing clever - it is a war after all.

    Re France I know that was just tongue in cheek, there’s more chance of me flying one of those jets straight from Moscow to Tehran without crashing!
    Plus the French and the yanks have made up…the they still hate the stupid australians.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:21 am

    Yes , that is what I mean . I am not too happy about non-stealthy planes confronting stealthy planes , with Radar switched on AND ECM pods advertising location too .

    Radar would only be used when needed, and jamming pods would only be used when under attack... for example being illuminated by the seeker head of an AMRAAM ARH missile... and if that is happening the enemy aircraft already knows where you are anyway.

    With proper coordination with ground forces and aircraft you can have some platforms scanning for threats but equally quite a few other aircraft and ground forces operating radar in listening mode only, so not emitting any signal but listening for signals. The enemy... if it is using active radar will give away its own positions, but its stealthy aircraft will only be using their radar as little as possible to avoid giving away their position.

    This should give Iran as the home team a better situational awareness and the ability to look for threats and move radar and radio silent platforms closer to where they think the enemy stealthy aircraft and drones are located... when you get close enough the IRST and IR guided weapons can deal with the problem...

    The F35 attack will form part of their tactics . After they use cruise missile from B2 or B52 or Sub or Ship at sea . These have 3700 km range and are fitted with conventional warhead . Against B2 , very difficult to intercept by Air at 3700 km from border for Iran .

    Such standoff ranges makes engaging the launch platforms difficult, so instead of engaging the launch platforms, designate targets in the region that you will attack instead... US military bases HQs, Comms centres, US Airfields, etc etc.

    When they attack you, you attack them back.

    Ship and Sub launched cruise can be dealt with effectively by Iranian Subs at sea . How many cruise missiles can they fire ? How many AD missiles , will Iran need to intercept ? How many cruise will get through ? I have to assume that , they will in the medium or long term , win the war of numbers . And once SEAD operation is made an impact, then they will come in with F35 and then F18.........

    Low flying subsonic missiles are relatively easy to intercept... the real problem is detecting them on their way... Saudi Arabia didn't detect any till impact which is obviously too late.

    One advantage of forcing the US to launch attacks from extreme range is that you therefore get plenty of time to deal with them, and the solution again is a coordination of aircraft and ground base air defences.

    If they launch 300 missiles then of course you would struggle to deal with them all as they arrive on target, but using aircraft, you can engage them from where they are detected all the way to their targets... even an old model MiG-29 should be able to get 6 good kills with AAMs... the SARH R-27 could be used to deal with targets further away and after those two are launched the four remaining R-73s are just ideal for shooting down cruise missiles too... the gun system on the MiG-29 is very good too... approach from behind... get a lock on the cruise missile and pull the trigger for the cannon... the fire control system will use the IRST and laser range finder to get a precise location for the target (the IRST gives very precise angular information for the target but not range, but the laser gives very precise range information)... together they give a very precise location for the target in real time and when the fire control system on the plane detects the angles are just right it will allow the gun to fire a burst.

    The point is that even after the missiles are fired and the cannon is out of shells the plane can continue to fly around locating cruise missiles and passing target data to the ground air defence forces so they can attack them too.

    I believe Iran has Kornets and Igla-S both in licence production... the latter would be absolutely ideal for engaging cruise missiles as long as sufficient warning is given to the operator.

    The MiG could follow the cruise missiles till other aircraft arrive and start launching missiles to whittle down their numbers while they can return to base to rearm for another wave of missiles...

    The key is work together so no targets are hit and then respond to the attack with a ballistic missile or cruise missile attack of your own... where would their aircraft attack be based from... attack that airfield in response to their first attack...

    Agree . Once the war gets to a stage , where they have air superiority and are bombing at will , then as we talked before , symbolic attacks by ICBM against monuments can be done . Or detonation of strong flares at altitude . Or EMP . Or plastic mini-leaflet that will survive the trip and fall to Earth .This should not provoke a Nuclear response . But if it does , so be it !

    No way. Attack them back with ballistic and cruise missiles to prevent them gaining air superiority.... hit their air bases, their arms dumps and fuel supplies... the power stations near their bases.

    If they threaten nukes then say... that makes all US forces fair game and also Israel fair game... do they still want to play?

    And what is the cost of an Iran defeated and destroyed by USA or a Nuclear attack on Iran by USA , for Russia and the world ? A not too unrealistic prospect ?

    Iran has more justification to spend money on defence... because unlike US and EU and HATO budgets... it actually is on DEFENCE.... but equally we don't want Iran to spend away its wealth and future on weapons it does not need... that would be another way the west could defeat Iran is to get it to overspend on its military and ignore its economy and people.... a bit like North Korea...

    Here the Israel minister still thinks a war with Iran is winnable !

    And that is a problem and is very destabilising... maybe if the US and HATO does not want to give Russia security guarantees then Russia needs to give Iran security guarantees... perhaps set aside a dozen TOPOL missiles and sign a deal with Iran that if any country attacks them that they can give the go ahead and Russia will attack the country that attacked them... Russia can use its discretion to decide what form the return attack would take, but it will be up to and including TOPOL if needed.

    I am sure the US would say that isn't fair, but that is the agreement the US has with HATO countries... if they get attacked then the US is obliged to help... Russia making similar agreements with Iran is none of the wests business... isn't that how this works?

    Irans security is none of the wests business and Iran has every right to enter into security agreements and pacts with Russia if they want... I mean if Russia can stop Ukraine and Georgia joining HATO then what say should the west have in agreements Russia signs?

    Yes I can imagine ! They have a Death star in orbit !

    It is a diamond studded leash attached to Bidens diamond and emerald studded codpiece isn't it?

    I just don’t see Russia taking it on. I’d put a tenner on it.

    I am not a betting man... not because I don't believe I am right, but because I don't want to compound being wrong with owing someone money too. jocolor

    Might be losing patience but that doesn’t mean he’s willing to take on the agro of supplying such systems to Iran - I just don’t see Russia taking it on. I’d put a tenner on it.

    Russia most likely blames Iran as much as it does isreal, who is just boxing clever - it is a war after all.

    It would be a great way of linking their own demands with the current situation.

    At the moment the US and EU and HATO countries and non HATO countries are saying who they do or don't let into HATO is none of Russias business... a simple counter would be for Russia to say OK... if we can't say yes or no to Ukraine or Georgia entering HATO then you don't get any say in our defence agreements with other countries too as I mentioned above they could have a bilateral agreement with Iran, but they could expand it to the SCO group... Venezuela would love to join and I expect Cambodia and Cuba and North Korea would all love to get security guarantees from Russia... Russia could start investments and increase its presence in these regions to boost trade and really help these regions out... Russia has gone from broken to built back better and I am sure there is lots of advice and assistance they could give.... investments where the country they are working with gets help, but it is not just charity draining Russian resources... where both sides make money and create wealth and value and progress and develop.

    Re France I know that was just tongue in cheek, there’s more chance of me flying one of those jets straight from Moscow to Tehran without crashing!

    Fly over the Caspian Sea... shouldn't be a huge problem... jocolor

    Putin needs a response for when the west brushes him off... even if he does not use it... it would be a useful option...

    The west knows Russia is not going to attack Kiev out of the blue... it will stop Kievs forces if they try a violent solution to their current problems but they wont invade for any other reason because they don't want the Ukraine, that is just a myth.

    That is why they can make all sorts of threats they know they will never have to follow through on like kicking Russia out of SWIFT.

    Putin should do the same... basing Russian air defence regiments of S-400 and S-500 near the nuclear reactor in Iran for instance, or gifting them some Su-24s with upgrades and perhaps some MiG-29s from storage for the price of minor upgrades on them and perhaps a future licence production contract for MiG-29Ms... to be paid for in oil ventures... Hell, no... they should be doing that anyway... Licence production of Pantsir SAMs.... IADS equipment.

    Perhaps if the JPOA agreement is not resumed in its original form without preconditions Russia might sign a new agreement with Iran... they can be the first foreign producers and operators of Checkmates...

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    Iran Air Force (IRIAF) | News and Discussions - Page 12 Empty Re: Iran Air Force (IRIAF) | News and Discussions

    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Sat May 21, 2022 12:18 pm

    AN-140 Copy

    On Thursday (May 19, 2022) HESA presented a new copy. As the Iranian news agencies Mehr and Tasnim report, it is a military van named Simorgh, named after a bird fabulous creature from Persian mythology. High -ranking military was present.

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    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Thu May 26, 2022 4:58 pm

    Status-6
    @Archer83Able
    ·
    24. Mai
    A F-7 fighter jet of the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force has crashed on Wednesday in the Isfahan Province of Iran. Both crew-members perished.

    (IRNA)
    https://twitter.com/Archer83Able/status/1528989950439575552
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    Post  Backman Thu May 26, 2022 11:18 pm

    Just when it looks like Russia Israel relations are breaking down for real , they patch it up.

    Israel vetoed sending anti tank mines to Ukraine.

    I wouldn't say that relations with the Jews is the only thing standing between Russia and Iran making deals. Iran just hasn't made an offer that is worth risking relations with Israel.

    Irans govt is stubborn af. Russia would probably give them a sweet deal on Mig 35's to get things going. But nope.
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    Post  GarryB Fri May 27, 2022 12:32 am

    Anti tank mines?

    The story I read it was Spike ATGMs...

    Part of the problem with Iran and Russian relations is that they are not the west so they don't automatically assume the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

    There were Iranian factions in Afghanistan fighting the Soviet occupation in the 1980s and lots of other incidents where relations would be strained... they have never been best buddies even if current conditions lead them to both rejecting the west primarily because the west is only screwing with them and wont accept them as an equal and neither are interested in being the wests bitch like the UK and France and other pretend countries are.

    With that AN-140 copy... I hope the engines are not made by Motor Sich...
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    Post  Werewolf Fri May 27, 2022 5:41 am

    Backman wrote:Just when it looks like Russia Israel relations are breaking down for real , they patch it up.

    Israel vetoed sending anti tank mines to Ukraine.

    I wouldn't say that relations with the Jews is the only thing standing between Russia and Iran making deals. Iran just hasn't made an offer that is worth risking relations with Israel.

    Irans govt is stubborn af. Russia would probably give them a sweet deal on Mig 35's to get things going. But nope.

    What can any nation gain from having any relationships with Israel?

    The only one who gains anything is Israel, as it can not sustain itself without input from financial or brain capacity from countries like Russia, US, Germany and a huge list of more countries.

    Any kind of technology Israel has or has developed is direct engineering know-how from Soviet/Russian education system or from the US.

    There is no gain for any country having relationships with this National Socialistic state that sets itself up above every other nation and continues its lies about Iran finishing tomorrow its nuclear weapon and whipping out all of Israel, which this clowns have told every single day since 40 years.

    Embargo those fuckers and put high fees on export goods if they are going through other countries. Dry them up so they stfu for once. No more nice guys with Nazi nations.
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    Post  d_taddei2 Fri May 27, 2022 6:33 am

    Read an article today stating Russian S-300 in Syria fired at Israeli missiles as a warning that their patience is running thin.

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    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Mon May 30, 2022 5:57 am

    Iran Air Force (IRIAF) | News and Discussions - Page 12 Hokjn
    Iran Air Force (IRIAF) | News and Discussions - Page 12 Hokjn
    Iran Air Force (IRIAF) | News and Discussions - Page 12 0ok4i
    An-140 to Simorgh
    The first Transport Version from An-140!

    PS: Backside with Radar Random?

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    Post  Backman Mon May 30, 2022 11:54 pm

    GarryB wrote:Anti tank mines?

    The story I read it was Spike ATGMs...

    Part of the problem with Iran and Russian relations is that they are not the west so they don't automatically assume the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

    There were Iranian factions in Afghanistan fighting the Soviet occupation in the 1980s and lots of other incidents where relations would be strained... they have never been best buddies even if current conditions lead them to both rejecting the west primarily because the west is only screwing with them and wont accept them as an equal and neither are interested in being the wests bitch like the UK and France and other pretend countries are.

    With that AN-140 copy... I hope the engines are not made by Motor Sich...

    Iran also sent fighters to Serbia in the 1990's.

    This AN-140 is all a collaboration/copy with Ukraine.  Which means Iran was more willing to do business with Ukraine than Russia. That does it for Iran. Let them rot

    Half of the fuselage, wings and a number of other components and parts were made in Kharkiv, and only its assembly and conversion from a passenger plane to a light transport aircraft was carried out by HESA engineers.

    https://myukraineis.org/news/a_prototype_of_the_simorgh_an_140_military_transport_aircraft_was_shown_in_iran-342.html
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    Post  lancelot Tue May 31, 2022 12:18 am

    Backman wrote:Iran also sent fighters to Serbia in the 1990's.
    This AN-140 is all a collaboration/copy with Ukraine.  Which means Iran was more willing to do business with Ukraine than Russia. That does it for Iran. Let them rot
    A lot of countries had relations with Ukraine's industry. They were willing to provide technical assistance back then that no one else would and for real cheap. That is where the North Koreans got their rocket engines for their ICBM with range to hit the US for example. Ukraine. China got technical assistance from Antonov to design the wings of the CR919 and Y-20. Heck even Belarus co-designed the Shershen ATGM with them. Most of this predates 2014 of course. Because do you think the US would allow these programs to continue? After the US sponsored coup in 2014 they had to break most of these contracts and tried to negotiate new contracts with US aligned countries like Turkey or Israel.

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    Post  sepheronx Tue May 31, 2022 12:23 am

    lancelot wrote:
    Backman wrote:Iran also sent fighters to Serbia in the 1990's.
    This AN-140 is all a collaboration/copy with Ukraine.  Which means Iran was more willing to do business with Ukraine than Russia. That does it for Iran. Let them rot
    A lot of countries had relations with Ukraine's industry. They were willing to provide technical assistance back then that no one else would and for real cheap. That is where the North Koreans got their rocket engines for their ICBM with range to hit the US for example. Ukraine. China got technical assistance from Antonov to design the wings of the CR919 and Y-20. Heck even Belarus co-designed the Shershen ATGM with them. Most of this predates 2014 of course. Because do you think the US would allow these programs to continue? After the US sponsored coup in 2014 they had to break most of these contracts and tried to negotiate new contracts with US aligned countries like Turkey or Israel.

    Al Khalid is technically a T-80 much like China's MBT-2000
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    Post  lancelot Tue May 31, 2022 12:31 am

    sepheronx wrote:Al Khalid is technically a T-80 much like China's MBT-2000
    Not really. Al Khalid is basically a Type 90 tank with the Ukrainian diesel engine from the T-80UD. Plus some Western tech. It is a mishmash built for Pakistan. The Pakistanis didn't like the tank all that much, and Ukraine was not a reliable supplier especially after 2014, so Pakistan is now building the Chinese VT-4 tank out of kits to replace it.

    I personally think Iran should have just bought the Su-30. Perhaps even license produce it to the extent they can.

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    Post  GarryB Tue May 31, 2022 3:45 am

    Which means Iran was more willing to do business with Ukraine than Russia. That does it for Iran. Let them rot

    I would say Ukraine was desperate for business and offered the best possible terms, so why not take the offer from an Iranian perspective.

    Of course now that relationship is a bit problematic... but there was nothing Ukraine could offer than Russia or China can't step in and offer as a replacement before too much is set in stone.

    PS: Backside with Radar Random?

    Not necessarily an actual radar... more likely antenna and communications equipment under radome fairings (radar transparent material).

    I personally think Iran should have just bought the Su-30. Perhaps even license produce it to the extent they can.

    Yeah, being biased myself I think they could get a licence to produce Su-30s to replace their F-14s and licence production of MiG-29Ms would be a good platform to replace their F-4s and upgrade their existing MiG-29s to.

    The MiG-29Ms are cheap enough to fly they could probably drop plans of making F-5 copies and just make a large fleet of MiG-29Ms... and perhaps make some extra for Syria and Iraq maybe if they are interested.

    India does not seem interested in buying new MiGs so why not licence produce them in Iran for Pakistan too... would be orders of magnitude better than upgraded MiG-21s...

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    Post  nomadski Tue May 31, 2022 4:21 am


    https://en.mehrnews.com/news/186799/Crisis-in-Ukraine-and-Iran-national-interests


    At the time , when cooperation with Ukraine was done , the war was not an issue . I read some Iranian Aircraft technicians say " ...why should we be anti-Ukrainian , they showed us how to repair aircraft , " this shows Iranians are not anti-ukrainian , but recent events also show that Iranians , through historical experience of relative isolation from Europe and not a participant or victim of Nazism , do not have the correct anti - Nazi stance , as is necessary now . It is not enough to say " ..we want peace between Russia and Ukraine , " and sit on the fence of neutrality . It is necessary to condemn explicitly this Nazism . I , through my family experience of having one of my uncles fight Nazis in WW2 and being commented positively by Zhukov , and another who helped the allied Russian troops in Iran , during WW2 , to transport supplies from Americans from Persian Gulf , and also because I live in Europe , where I met Ukrainian Nazi collaborators refugees , have a different perspective . This article shows that Iran has mostly the correct path with regard to Ukraine .

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    Post  Backman Tue May 31, 2022 4:46 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Which means Iran was more willing to do business with Ukraine than Russia. That does it for Iran. Let them rot

    I would say Ukraine was desperate for business and offered the best possible terms, so why not take the offer from an Iranian perspective.

    Of course now that relationship is a bit problematic... but there was nothing Ukraine could offer than Russia or China can't step in and offer as a replacement before too much is set in stone.

    PS: Backside with Radar Random?

    Not necessarily an actual radar... more likely antenna and communications equipment under radome fairings (radar transparent material).

    I personally think Iran should have just bought the Su-30. Perhaps even license produce it to the extent they can.

    Yeah, being biased myself I think they could get a licence to produce Su-30s to replace their F-14s and licence production of MiG-29Ms would be a good platform to replace their F-4s and upgrade their existing MiG-29s to.

    The MiG-29Ms are cheap enough to fly they could probably drop plans of making F-5 copies and just make a large fleet of MiG-29Ms... and perhaps make some extra for Syria and Iraq maybe if they are interested.

    India does not seem interested in buying new MiGs so why not licence produce them in Iran for Pakistan too... would be orders of magnitude better than upgraded MiG-21s...

    Iran building F-5's is cringe. What did Russia do to Iran to make them choose the US over Russia even while the US's boot is on their neck. They should build/repair Mig 29's

    Russia bombed the Mig 29 repair plant that was housing some foreign jets. Azerbaijan had some Mig 29's there that got destroyed. Maybe some of Irans were in there too.

    Some countries like this used Ukraine to avoid dealing with Russia. Ukraine was always more neutral and anonymous. They had lower prices too as you say. I think Russia should close this loophole and have a monopoly on all Soviet era sales and service with Belarus and the new republics. Which is another reason to take Motor Sich by force.




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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Jun 01, 2022 3:33 am

    Iran building F-5's is cringe. What did Russia do to Iran to make them choose the US over Russia even while the US's boot is on their neck.

    Western equipment is what the Shah bought and paid for so it is what they know... essentially it is their equipment... the equipment bought and paid for top dollar I might add... Iran also paid the UK to build them a modern state of the art tank... the UK built the Challenger series but didn't deliver any to Iran because of the fall of the Shah.

    Ironic really because Brits think of the Challenger tank is being all British but was paid for by Iran....

    The point is that if the British had delivered the tank and fully set up production in Russia then that would be Irans tank currently most likely, though possibly with a Chinese 120mm smoothbore gun or something similar.

    The F-5 is the aircraft they are familiar with and have access to, so of course any new light plane design will use its design as a base... so much less risk for a country with no history of aircraft design... it wont be a super plane but it will be something they could make and use themselves... which is more valuable.

    It is not enough to say " ..we want peace between Russia and Ukraine , " and sit on the fence of neutrality . It is necessary to condemn explicitly this Nazism .

    I don't think they will shift views on Nazis so easily... you mention Baba Yaga to a US teenager with no Russian family and they will think they make cartoons or something... Nazis didn't invade Iran... but Russia occupied them during WWII didn't they?

    Once the political reality that the Kiev regime is not going to exist as it currently is and most of their industry will be destroyed in this conflict and Russia pretty much gets to decide what gets rebuilt in most of the Ukraine will lead to Iran realising that getting engines and other bits and bobs will make more sense from Russia or China than unreliable Ukraine with a leash around its neck...

    Interesting family history you have there BTW.

    Some countries like this used Ukraine to avoid dealing with Russia. Ukraine was always more neutral and anonymous. They had lower prices too as you say. I think Russia should close this loophole and have a monopoly on all Soviet era sales and service with Belarus and the new republics. Which is another reason to take Motor Sich by force.

    Lets face it.... any working business like Motor Sich or Salyut will be currently used to make weapons or fix weapons etc etc and should be destroyed outright.

    Ukraine did offer lower prices because once they got your plane for support they could strip good parts and replace them with cheap knockoffs and eventually sell you your own good parts back to you when the knockoffs fail and claim it was shoddy Russian parts that need replacing with good Ukrainian parts that will be the original parts in the first place.

    They could barely keep their own MiG-29s in the air and are only doing so now because Eastern Europe has essentially send them all their stuff and all their spares and support equipment too no doubt... the US has been demanding the get rid of that for years and buy old F-16s or new F-35s... so now they can send them worn out old F-16s and milk them for very expensive parts and service contracts to keep them in the air...
    Tolstoy
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    Post  Tolstoy Wed Jun 01, 2022 5:18 am

    GarryB wrote:India does not seem interested in buying new MiGs so why not licence produce them in Iran for Pakistan too... would be orders of magnitude better than upgraded MiG-21s...
    Instead, ship the Mig-29s from Russia to Pakistan directly. Cost of producing a Mig-29 in Iran is going to be a lot more than producing it in Russia.

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