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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

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    Strizh

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    Post  Strizh on Wed May 07, 2014 9:57 pm

    ^ Why don't we use any SLAT armor on our APC ?
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Wed May 07, 2014 10:18 pm

    No matter how much the shite sector murders, their shitty economic policies that will further destroy the ukrainian economy will surely start a much more massive rebellion not only in southeast. but whole central and north regions.
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    Post  Firebird on Wed May 07, 2014 11:26 pm

    Well, I was thinking for ages... "this doesn't make sense".

    HOWEVER, a thought just came to me.
    And what I think now is "dont write Putin off just yet".
    Maybe he still will get the title "Vladimir the Great".

    This isnt a long term ploy. But Putin MUST surely know. Capitulation, or backing off and he's finished.
    Success and his place is marked in history.

    Pt1, the Americans are irrelevant to all this. Russia and Europe want trade. Mutual benefit.
    The Ukraine - Kiev and the East and South are especially important, spiritually, culturally for Russia. Not so for Europe.

    The Americans are virtually sidelined. And then it is the next stage.
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    Post  Strizh on Wed May 07, 2014 11:31 pm

    ^ I really hope you are right!

    But our guys are dying in the eastern Ukraine and the only thing Putin does is shifting the referendum.

     pale 
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    Post  Regular on Wed May 07, 2014 11:37 pm

    Strizh wrote:^ Why don't we use any SLAT armor on our APC ?
    Is there a low intensity war in Russia? You know that there is no need for it in peace time? And in conventional war it is not important.
    Ukrainian btr-4 are like that because they were in Iraq. They haven't removed cages.
    SLAT armour packages made by NII Stal were used in 2nd Chechen war. Even seen them on URAL trucks.
    One of the variations used
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 7 Btr80_10


    Last edited by Regular on Wed May 07, 2014 11:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed May 07, 2014 11:40 pm

    sepheronx wrote:That, and any gov that is in Ukraine soon that is part of a deal in being neutral, can be overthrown again by anotger colored revolution.

    Too many gullible people.

    I know, we need to wait and see. But any respect for Putin on my end is all gone.

    Keep in mind that the IMF brutal austerity measures haven't been set yet, guess what happens when Western Ukrainians find out that the gas will double in price and the subsidies are gone, and when their parents and grandparents pensions are slashed in half, and there's no prenatal care for expecting mothers? Kiev's demise is waiting to happen, and instead of South/East Ukraine rising up, it's the entirety of Ukraine that includes the West. That's when Putin could play some serious cards, if he waits after the elections, the harsh austerity measures will kick in post-elections that of which makes Greece's austerity measures look like a joke, then it will be just a matter of time when the shit really hits the fan...Kiev will be lucky if they even survive past winter! I'm surprised that you haven't considered this gambit.
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    Post  Regular on Wed May 07, 2014 11:45 pm

    People, if You are concerned about rebels then please donate. I sent decent amount. If more will follow they will be able to organise themselves 2gen NVGs and more equipment from third parties. Russian brothers hunters and even airsofters are actually working on nice toys to be sent there:) everything helps
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    Post  Strizh on Wed May 07, 2014 11:48 pm

    Regular wrote:People, if You are concerned about rebels then please donate. I sent decent amount. If more will follow they will be able to organise themselves 2gen NVGs and more equipment from third parties. Russian brothers hunters and even airsofters are actually working on nice toys to be sent there:) everything helps

    Post the link please!
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    Post  flamming_python on Wed May 07, 2014 11:54 pm

    Regular wrote:Is there a low intensity war in Russia?

    There is
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    Post  flamming_python on Thu May 08, 2014 12:03 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:That, and any gov that is in Ukraine soon that is part of a deal in being neutral, can be overthrown again by anotger colored revolution.

    Too many gullible people.

    I know, we need to wait and see. But any respect for Putin on my end is all gone.

    Keep in mind that the IMF brutal austerity measures haven't been set yet, guess what happens when Western Ukrainians find out that the gas will double in price and the subsidies are gone, and when their parents and grandparents pensions are slashed in half, and there's no prenatal care for expecting mothers? Kiev's demise is waiting to happen, and instead of South/East Ukraine rising up, it's the entirety of Ukraine that includes the West. That's when Putin could play some serious cards, if he waits after the elections, the harsh austerity measures will kick in post-elections that of which makes Greece's austerity measures look like a joke, then it will be just a matter of time when the shit really hits the fan...Kiev will be lucky if they even survive past winter! I'm surprised that you haven't considered this gambit.

    That's what I thought, but now I doubt it - they are too brainwashed and will simply blame Russia for everything that comes, the Moskals are always to blame.

    And what's more, a good deal of the south-east population even, nevermind all the central regions, Kiev, etc... which used to be sane as little as 6 months ago, are also blaming the Moskals, and this blame will only intensify the worse their conditions become, until the Ukraine becomes like a new Bosnia or Afghanistan.
    It's insane, these people in government and all the Western nationalists, they are literally doing everything to destroy their own country and all of its industry, trample on anything that unifies the country and cause its population to flee abroad.
    It's incorrect to even call them Nazis, the Nazis were never proponents of self-implosion and anarchy - they are just morons.

    Actually there is a certain opinion amongst the Western Ukrainian nationalists and Banderovites - that the current government are Moscow's agents. And as ridiculous as it sounds, they do have a point - the people in power are basically doing everything they can in order to breakup their own country into pieces.

    Here's a good analysis but only for Russian-speakers. Excellent analysis in fact:

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    Post  flamming_python on Thu May 08, 2014 12:06 am

    Regular wrote:People, if You are concerned about rebels then please donate. I sent decent amount. If more will follow they will be able to organise themselves 2gen NVGs and more equipment from third parties. Russian brothers hunters and even airsofters are actually working on nice toys to be sent there:) everything helps

    Tnx for reminding, will do

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 7 Donbas10
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    Post  Regular on Thu May 08, 2014 12:14 am

    Strizh wrote:
    Regular wrote:People, if You are concerned about rebels then please donate. I sent decent amount. If more will follow they will be able to organise themselves 2gen NVGs and more equipment from third parties. Russian brothers hunters and even airsofters are actually working on nice toys to be sent there:) everything helps

    Post the link please!
    My fault! For multicurrency transfers.
    http://vk.com/donbass_gvardia?w=wall-38714050_101834
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    Post  Airbornewolf on Thu May 08, 2014 12:47 am

    Regular wrote:People, if You are concerned about rebels then please donate. I sent decent amount. If more will follow they will be able to organise themselves 2gen NVGs and more equipment from third parties. Russian brothers hunters and even airsofters are actually working on nice toys to be sent there:) everything helps

    i understand the wish to funding, but have they made a clear list of what they will buy with the financial assets?.

    NVG's are expensive and depending on "light" conditions they might be as good as useless. older 2nd gen are plagued with defficiency's. they burn themselves out with sudden bright lights, need a relative lot of time to adjust to a new brightness and have a lot of "grain" in their optics preventing observing details from far away. not to mention in the absence of bright "IR" light or absence of other light sources like stars or a full moon you cant see shit.

    the Ukrainians might posess basic NVG on their BTR's but they have nothing effective in the sense of small arms or helmet mounted NVG. i walked myself in Afghanistan for a year night-ops with NVG, and unless you got 1st gen millitary then night vission is highly over-rated. you only see a fraction of your surroundings and the crap is more of a handicap than a help at night.

    i am myself in the Airsoft scene and industry. but trust me a lot of airsofters do not know real life battlefield conditions. and how optics respond to recoil, flashes and the occaisional bump against a wall. and even the most effective "replica's" just shatter under the real battlefield stress like recoil and sensitivity to muzzle flashes and they are inneffective beyond like 60 meters.

    i do not wish to judge about donating, but i do want to point out not to waste that money on crap. then buy older RPG-7's to achieve AT-ability or Dragunov's for long-range engagements. or even ammo and magazines for that matter. or buy a bunch of AK mounted optics with a Merc of their own to train/help them in calibrating them to "what you aim at, is what you hit".
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    Post  Vann7 on Thu May 08, 2014 12:50 am

    I think Putin strategy or lack of ..is too simply wait Ukraine fall on its own knees ,that when the new neo nazi pro NATO President is Elected ,
    that after a year or two ,People will realize their situation haven't improved at all ,and that there are no Jobs for them ,and nation economy collapse. Then only after all those police and soldiers receive no more payment ,then they will start a revolution ,pleading Russia to take them back. This is why i have no simpathy for Euro - Ukrainians. They are like Prostitutes ,that will sell for the best offer their nation independence. Just that this time US and neither the EU will be able to continue paying their Gas Bills.

    Russia strategy should be to kick their asses very hard ,and accelerate the plans to become totally independent of the EU Gas and build the Russia-CHina-India Gas Pipeline in no time.  I think Russia dependance on business with EU is what hold them on any actions in Ukraine.
    It my opinion it was a very bad idea of Russia depending of the EU so much for its economy.. The EU is too integrated into US economy and they will never split with US economy no matter if that means paying 100% more for their electricity bills. Russia should have looked instead CHina-India and all ASIA ,where the major emerging economies are ,but also Latin America where the US is losing market. And ignore all US sanctions on IRAN , North Korea , Syria and trade everything with them.  IF i were to rate Putin policy on Ukraine ,
    and will give them F+ and a near total failure.  Taking Crimea will be a symbolic consolation price ,because NATO will have now military bases with missiles very near of Moscow and with neo NAZIS very hostile to Russia in power.. LOL


    All this troubles Russia have now Could have been avoided If Putin-Medvedev had a more active policy in Ukraine ,with people inside  
    preparing to counter the neo nazis coup ,that were gaining power in Ukraine. They leave alone Yakunovych to its luck with a foreign funded revolution and now they have a big danger for their own nation security. Anyway i do not see any other leadership in Russia with more vision for Russia in the long future . because don't think the communist party can maintain unity in Russia ,specially with their muslin regions..  Anyway.. is there any Russian leader that anyone knows could replace Putin and do a better job in international politics? and nation economy? and Space?
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    Post  zino on Thu May 08, 2014 1:15 am

    Well, the cooling down it's not so bad for me because tomorrow I will fly for 7/8 hours above the russian airspace. It would suck if it was closed! I hope to see some cool SAM site  Smile . See you all soon! And my thoughts to the people of юго-восток.
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    Post  Viktor on Thu May 08, 2014 1:35 am

    Putin gets:

    1.
    Russia urgently appeals to the authorities in Kiev to cease immediately all military and punitive operations in southeast Ukraine

    2.
    We welcome the release of Mr [Pavel] Gubarev, but we hope to see all the other political prisoners released too

    3.
    We think the most important thing now is to launch direct dialogue, genuine, full-fledged dialogue between the Kiev authorities and representatives of southeast Ukraine

    4.
    but it will not solve anything unless all of Ukraine’s people first understand how their rights will be guaranteed once the election has taken place




    Putin gives:

    1.
    In this context, we appeal too, to representatives of southeast Ukraine and supporters of federalisation to hold off the referendum scheduled for May 11, in order to give this dialogue the conditions it needs to have a chance

    2.
    Let me stress that the presidential election the Kiev authorities plan to hold is a step in the right direction


    3.
    We have withdrawn our forces and they are now not on the Ukrainian border but are carrying out their regular exercises at the test grounds

    4.
    We helped to secure the OSCE military observers’ release and I think also made a contribution to defusing the situation




    Putin agrees with EU:



    and in particulary with Germany

    I spoke recently with German Federal Chancellor Angela Merkel, who proposed organising this dialogue in the form of a round table. We support this




    but at the same time dark vision of what is about to happen otherwise and inside in Russian actions in that case

    1.
    Russia will take every necessary step of course and do everything within its power to settle the situation. I can understand the people in southeast Ukraine, who say that if others can do what they like in Kiev, carry out a coup d’etat, take up arms and seize government buildings, police stations and military garrisons, then why shouldn’t they be allowed to defend their interests and lawful rights

    2.
    As for whether proposed measures suit Russia or not, we are not a party to this conflict;




    What about Americans:

    1.
    I don’t know how realistic a Geneva-2 round of talks or even internal political talks in Ukraine itself would be




    So from that we can conclude that:

    1. Russia-EU(Germany) struck an agreement without US
    2. Russia got 4 points and gave away 4 points
    3. Russia says otherwise civil war in which Russia will support pro-Russian territory and people
    4. Russia will not act with its military


    Press statements and replies to journalists’ questions
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    Post  Regular on Thu May 08, 2014 1:51 am

    Airbornewolf wrote:
    Regular wrote:People, if You are concerned about rebels then please donate. I sent decent amount. If more will follow they will be able to organise themselves 2gen NVGs and more equipment from third parties. Russian brothers hunters and even airsofters are actually working on nice toys to be sent there:) everything helps

    i understand the wish to funding, but have they made a clear list of what they will buy with the financial assets?.

    NVG's are expensive and depending on "light" conditions they might be as good as useless. older 2nd gen are plagued with defficiency's. they burn themselves out with sudden bright lights, need a relative lot of time to adjust to a new brightness and have a lot of "grain" in their optics preventing observing details from far away. not to mention in the absence of bright "IR" light or absence of other light sources like stars or a full moon you cant see shit.

    the Ukrainians might posess basic NVG on their BTR's but they have nothing effective in the sense of small arms or helmet mounted NVG. i walked myself in Afghanistan for a year night-ops with NVG, and unless you got 1st gen millitary then night vission is highly over-rated. you only see a fraction of your surroundings and the crap is more of a handicap than a help at night.

    i am myself in the Airsoft scene and industry. but trust me a lot of airsofters do not know real life battlefield conditions. and how optics respond to recoil, flashes and the occaisional bump against a wall. and even the most effective "replica's" just shatter under the real battlefield stress like recoil and sensitivity to muzzle flashes and they are inneffective beyond like 60 meters.

    i do not wish to judge about donating, but i do want to point out not to waste that money on crap. then buy older RPG-7's to achieve AT-ability or Dragunov's for long-range engagements. or even ammo and magazines for that matter. or buy a bunch of AK mounted optics with a Merc of their own to train/help them in calibrating them to "what you aim at, is what you hit".

    They haven't stated what they will buy. I was assuming what they need the most on the ground.
    I've used 2gen NV and clearly it's better to have then then not! I bought quite a few through 5 years. They are not that bad as You make them sound.
    Most of them had protection in them like auto switch off or auto correction that don't let monoculars to burn if bright exceeded critical limit. Automatic calibration of brightness is an option too. Proper lenses doesn't distort image and doesn't give you nausea. New NV systems like out of the box 2gen+ PVS-14 are better then some gen3 ones! If I recall correctly Russia and Belarus already make plenty of 3gen+ NV systems which is available for civilians.
    And donations won't buy them weapons, but gear, uniforms. Weapons and ammo are hard to smuggle. People would risk to be caught by Russian border guards. Anyways there are plenty of weapons in Ukraine.
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    Post  Viktor on Thu May 08, 2014 1:57 am

    So overall how that changes picture:

    1. Avoiding civil war

    2. US is excluded and in case their nazi puppets do not act according to Russian-EU deal, US can bear the brunt of the responsibility (would be funny if struck by sanctions)

    3. Russia-EU developes trust

    4. no sanctions for Russia, bussines as usual

    5. EU would not let Ukraine become NATO member because they know that would mean war with Russia

    6. Another failed attempt by USA regime to separate Russia with the EU where all World saw how deadly and idiotic their politics is

    7. EU does not want Ukraine and they said so, so Ukraine in the mid-run certainly goes to Russia

    8. Ukraine economy with colapse and social unrest will happen and that is something that is unavoidable unless west plans to throw away 700+ bin $ by 2020 - and that wont happen

    9. Russia can channel those unrest to its advantage paying much more attention to Ukraine this time

    10. US looses in the long term Ukraine and NATO because this could mark the first time EU ever produced any independant decision leading ultimately one step further towards EU defense

    forces with which Russia does not have problem

    11. Russia regaining initiative


    Last edited by Viktor on Thu May 08, 2014 2:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Viktor on Thu May 08, 2014 2:13 am

    federalization supporters will listen to Russia and negotiate with nazis in Kiev

    Pushilin: Donetsk People's Republic is ready for talks with Kiev

    now it remains to see what will USA regime Ukranian nazi puppets decide and this is a direct pressure to them to finally realize they have new masters now


    and .... situation is normalizing

    Situation in eastern Ukraine stabilizes after Putin's meeting with OSCE head Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_05_07/Situation-in-eastern-Ukraine-stabilizes-after-Putins-meeting-with-OSCE-head-4597/
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    Post  arpakola on Thu May 08, 2014 5:36 am

    Regular wrote:
    Strizh wrote:
    Regular wrote:People, if You are concerned about rebels then please donate. I sent decent amount. If more will follow they will be able to organise themselves 2gen NVGs and more equipment from third parties. Russian brothers hunters and even airsofters are actually working on nice toys to be sent there:) everything helps

    Post the link please!
    My fault! For multicurrency transfers.
    http://vk.com/donbass_gvardia?w=wall-38714050_101834

    Can u translate. Bank no. And. Swift no ?
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    Post  arpakola on Thu May 08, 2014 6:16 am

    Yatsenyuk has visited camp

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    Ukrainian troops capture separatists ‘Minister of Defence
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    Rewarding of the saving group evacuating crew of brought down Mi-24
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    Post  Vann7 on Thu May 08, 2014 7:25 am

    I don't know how you can call "separatist" the anti-kiev protesters. The real separatist are the Neo NAzis junta that wants
    to betray their independence and become a colony of NATO . Losing the sovereignty to become a territory of USA is separatism
    and treason. NATO countries are just colonies of US with many military bases.. ITALY for example have several US military bases and they
    also store there many US nuclear weapons.

    Anyway just curious how the anti-kiev ,minister of defense was captured?
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    Post  arpakola on Thu May 08, 2014 7:41 am

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 7 300


    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 7 ZvqzfMfcW2A
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    Post  arpakola on Thu May 08, 2014 7:48 am



    Crimean chief prosecutor Natalia Poklonskaya swears oath to Russia


    Last edited by arpakola on Thu May 08, 2014 10:22 am; edited 2 times in total
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    Post  GarryB on Thu May 08, 2014 8:17 am

    Anyway just curious how the anti-kiev ,minister of defense was captured?

    They must have used ten Spetsnaz brigades to take him... even with handcuffs on and stripped to his underpants they still keep two rifles trained on his head at all times like he might go all Chuck Norris on them at any time... sad really.

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