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    Egypt: Breaking News

    George1
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    Post  George1 on Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:20 pm

    Incumbent President Sisi Wins Egyptian Presidential Election With 97%

    https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201804021063139813-egypt-presidential-election-incumbent-president-wins/
    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 on Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:43 pm

    If true this is a massive deal
    A total of 6 frigates, (2Frame), 20 missile launchers,
    24 Eurofighter Typhoon fighters, 24 Airmake M-346 light combat aircraft, advanced training, a reconnaissance and radar imaging satellite

    Egypt is preparing for massive military deal with European country

    https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/egypt-is-preparing-for-massive-military-deal-with-european-country/
    ahmedfire
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    Post  ahmedfire on Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:24 pm


    Not confirmed yet but i highly doubt getting Typhoon fighters .

    Doesn't make sense to use Rafale and Typhoon together .Also SU-35 is on the way and we already have F-16 ,Mirage-2000 ,Mig-29M2 .
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK on Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:31 pm

    ahmedfire wrote:
    Not confirmed yet but i highly doubt getting Typhoon fighters .

    Doesn't make sense to use Rafale and Typhoon together .Also SU-35 is on the way and we already have F-16 ,Mirage-2000 ,Mig-29M2 .

    Goodness only knows where the money will come from. Egypt doesn't have any, the Italians don't have any to fund the deal and the Gulf has lost its oil profits.
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    Post  ahmedfire on Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:39 pm

    Probably part of the deal is a loan from the supplier (CDP bank ) , Egypt will pay the rest .
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:23 pm

    That is a ridiculous logistics nightmare.

    I doubt those typhoons will ever fly. It may be entirely a political purchase so Egypt can fuck turkey up and get no condemnation over it
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:38 pm

    Who cares about italian condamnation and support ? That's bullshit. If they want european support they would buy french which they already did.

    Typhoon is barely produced. This aircraft has reached its end. Even the main producers are switching for f-35 because the plane sucks.
    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 on Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:52 pm

    Yeah, I think maybe the two frame frigates but the rest could just be rumours. It's a hefty cost of a deal. And more mish mash equipment. Must be a nightmare. Egypt needs to streamline a bit more than this.
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:50 am

    Isos wrote:Who cares about italian condamnation and support ? That's bullshit. If they want european support they would buy french which they already did.

    Typhoon is barely produced. This aircraft has reached its end. Even the main producers are switching for f-35 because the plane sucks.
    Typhoon does not suck, but it is over expensive for its capabilities, and probably in need of new radars and avionics (I do not not know if they have been upgraded).
    The main producers are switching to F35 because they are
    almost forced by US. Actually italy just needed some VSTOL aircrafts for their light carriers, to replace the harriers... the order of F35 for the italian air force did not make sense (especially now that the italian air force is also getting a few F35 B (VTOL version, that should have been exclusively for the italian navy) in addition to their F35A..

    And yeah, the political weight of Italy is less than nothing. And it is absurd, since industrially, economically and militarily until a few years ago it did not have any to envy to France and UK (except nukes) ...

    However most of the politicians since at least 1992 have been working for foreign interests...
    And many of those not on the payrolls or foreign states are just too idiots... like many that wanted to break relationships with Egypt due to the death of Regeni...an italian researcher working for a British university that was killed in dubious circumstances in Egypt ...
    The problem in that case was that Regeni, maybe without himself knowing, was actually gathering information in egypt for the british intelligence...


    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:26 am

    Typhoon sucks. RAF stoped combat trainings against french Rafales because they always lost. In air to ground its sucks. In air to air it sucks (good in dogfight in altitudes where no one else goes, in bvr it has no stealth despite what fanboys say and is comparable to mig-29 series). Oh yeah ... it's also expensive. A total failure.

    For egypt it's even worse because it doesn't use same weapons as Rafale. So it will be an all new jets in their service.

    Italy is a great country but they are worthless in diplomacy. However they produce some good military stuff.


    The FREMM are good ships but they are already buying french corvettes, I doubt they have money for another 2 frigates and 6 new ships like they say. French version is also better than italian.
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:16 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    Egypt is preparing for massive military deal with European country

    https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/egypt-is-preparing-for-massive-military-deal-with-european-country/

    Italy
    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 on Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:40 pm

    George1 wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:
    Egypt is preparing for massive military deal with European country

    https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/egypt-is-preparing-for-massive-military-deal-with-european-country/

    Italy

    Yes says it in the article. I just copied the article title. Lol.
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:36 pm

    Isos wrote:Typhoon sucks. RAF stoped combat trainings against french Rafales because they always lost. In air to ground its sucks. In air to air it sucks (good in dogfight in altitudes where no one else goes, in bvr it has no stealth despite what fanboys say and is comparable to mig-29 series). Oh yeah ... it's also expensive. A total failure.

    For egypt it's even worse because it doesn't use same weapons as Rafale. So it will be an all new jets in their service.

    Italy is a great country but they are worthless in diplomacy. However they produce some good military stuff.


    The FREMM are good ships but they are already buying french corvettes, I doubt they have money for another 2 frigates and 6 new ships like they say. French version is also better than italian.

    Yeah, they are talking about getting a couple of frigates already built for the Italian navy plus a few newly built...

    Strangely our corrupt and incompetent government did not manage yet to destroy also this order...

    But Italy is not a great country... it has everything to be one, except the will and the capacity of its people.

    In addition there is too much envy and bitterness, and only the mediocre are allowed to go forward (and that is instilled since primary schools... )  italy still produces many excellent people, but they are ostracized or discredited and disgraced,  unless they decide to ignore their capabilities..
    Being able to do something better than the others is almost considered showing off and being nasty in modern Italy..


    «Ahi serva Italia, di dolore ostello,
    nave sanza nocchiere in gran tempesta,
    non donna di provincie, ma bordello!»

    (Purgatorio, canto VI, vv. 76-78)

    Ah, abject Italy, you inn of sorrows,
    you ship without a helmsman in harsh seas,
    no queen of provinces but of bordellos!

    Note: Donna di province (queen of provinces) is a reference to the role of Italy in the Roman empire: in a note in the corpus Iuris civilis emperor Justinian defines Italy that way: Italia non erat provincia, sed domina provinciarum

    End of off topic


    Anyway, I am not sure that the french FREMM are better. They only have better land attack capabilities (they have 16 A70 VLS (not present in the italian version), but as far as I know they can be used only for land attack). The italian fremms instead carry two helicopters  and have better and more modern radars (the french version has only one main multi-function radar and no secondary search radar).
    jhelb
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    Post  jhelb on Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:12 pm

    Isos wrote:Typhoon sucks. RAF stoped combat trainings against french Rafales because they always lost. In air to ground its sucks. In air to air it sucks (good in dogfight in altitudes where no one else goes, in bvr it has no stealth despite what fanboys say and is comparable to mig-29 series). Oh yeah ... it's also expensive. A total failure.
    Typhoon sucks. But why compare it with a competent aircraft like the Mig-29?

    Mig 29 is a great aircraft. It doesn't have AESA, but should get an AESA-MMR soon.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:20 pm

    AESA doesn't mean a whole lot of shit.  We have gone over this a billion times.

    AESA modules have a failure rate on average of 10% for old modules (modules more refined) and newer modules around 15%.  Add to that in the end, its the power generated from the engines that would be able to provide to the radar itself.  Its basic physics.  Technically, if the Russians really wanted to, they could create a smaller and lower powered variant of the Irbis-E to fit a MiG-35 (would be rather very small) and would still pump out the power needed to compete with modern Radars.  Guaranteed it would hit around 200km range for fighter sized targets of about 2 - 3m^2.  That is more or less the best, maybe better than what the AESA radar Zhuk-AM was proposed for such a jet.  But it is better in some low interception and ability to have better scanning rates, but with a weaker radar (smaller and less power input), it none of those functions matter much.  And against modern jets who use sensor probes to pick up radiation, its pointless.

    If we really want, wait for photonic radar systems.  God knows when that will come out.  Kret built a facility JUST to test photonic radar systems and ground based one was built two years ago or so for testing.  But no new news regarding it since.  I presume it is because its still rather sensitive development and Rostec is more interested in promoting its medical achievements more so than military (for obvious reasons).

    Typhoon was OK jet. It is just past its prime in terms of design. If it was built and fielded in good numbers in the 80's and early 90's then it would have been a fantastic jet. But now? Its Meh. As ISOS said, fails against the Rafale. But Rafale is a good jet.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:38 pm

    Well you compare radar with radar which is pointless. You need to compare radar against jammers. Mechanical radar are very well jammed by modern jammers. Sweedish grippen used its jammers against a RAF Typhoon and the Typhoon saw nothing until it came close for visual contact.

    Irbis is kindda safe with its power but a small radar like on mig-29 would be less powerfull and more impacted.

    AESA allows to work on many frequencies at a same time making jamming very hard.

    I don't believe in Low Intercept Probability because as soon as you emmit a radar signal it can be detected by a wide band passive sensor working in the frequencies the radar works. For exemple your AESA radar works on the frequencies (random numbers) 15.2 Ghz, 14.3Ghz and 16.2Ghz and switch btw thos 3 and probably tens of other then you just need a passive sensor that detects everything between 15-17Ghz and you will detect it.

    Mig 29 is a great aircraft. It doesn't have AESA, but should get an AESA-MMR soon.

    I'm not saying mig-29 is bad. I'm saying that Typhoon that is a generation ahead was developed just like the mig-29 for air to air engagement only and was then developed into almost multirole fighter. For the mig it is understandable but not for the typhoon when you know how much they put into the program and when the plane was mas and still didn't made it better than a mig-29.

    The Rafale is for exmple a success as a program because it is a real multirole jet with decent range and can do all its missions in one flight (air to air, air to ground, anti ship, jamming, recon). And it was developed in the same time as Typhoon after the French took the decision to leave the typhoon programme.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:46 pm

    It cannot work in multimode function. Mixing signals will not give it a bonus at all but make it easy to spot. You are thinking of frequency hopping and even that is questionable as its radiation - it will be picked up. In this case, jamming systems are supplemented by counter jammers. While you could say "well, its better to have it built in rather than a pod" I disagree as pods can have a massive APU which can take in a ton of electricity for it to be transfered from DC - AC and then provided to the subsystems within the pods. And when things change, the jammer pods can change too. I noticed Russia has been far more inclined to use that tech which IMO is an overall better option. Its more expensive up front but long run, cheaper.

    I do not know what ECCM pods those Euro's use, but it must be shit if a Grippin was able to jam it. As well, Irbis actually operates in multimode as well much like an AESA radar hence why its called a Hybrid and isn't exactly a PESA or AESA. But even then, it isn't really all that useful compared to overall power output and mixed with a good transceiver to translate the data.

    I would wager to say that the AESA tech is an expensive solution to something that can be done easily through other methods. The only reason why Russia seems to be quick in wanting to adopt AESA these days is entirely to do with marketing. Marketing has worked on not just some people here, but entire nations. Well, and AESA modules are becoming real cheap with Russia producing tens of thousands for everything from their ground based radar systems to the Su-35 L band AESA modules on the wings. Which was an interesting choice tbh. Hence their love for that jet over the MiG-35.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:53 am

    Even the main producers are switching for f-35 because the plane sucks.

    If true... hilarious.... either the Typhoon is exceptionally bad or those countries are in for a shock... affraid

    Typhoon does not suck, but it is over expensive for its capabilities, and probably in need of new radars and avionics (I do not not know if they have been upgraded).
    The main producers are switching to F35 because they are
    almost forced by US.

    Ironic... most F-35 defenders calling it over expensive for its capabilities too... the obvious question to ask would be at what price does it become interesting...

    Of course with US pressure we probably will never know...

    Typhoon sucks. But why compare it with a competent aircraft like the Mig-29?

    Mig 29 is a great aircraft. It doesn't have AESA, but should get an AESA-MMR soon.

    Much of the Typhoons reason to be was to counter the new Soviet planes... the MiG-29 and Su-27, so for much of its life it is compared with both aircraft and described as superior to justify its existence... what Lsos is basically saying is that it has no real tangible advantages over the planes it is supposed to go up against and beat in combat... which I guess would not be such a problem if it was cheap and simple...

    AESA doesn't mean a whole lot of shit. We have gone over this a billion times.

    AESA would be an improvement, but a half arsed raw one would be like the Typhoon itself... very expensive but not that great to start with...

    The IADS the MiG would be operating within... if we are talking about Russian MiGs here is vastly more capable and useful and powerful than any difference an AESA radar could make, but there are AESA radars on the way for the MiG, but no IADS for the Typhoon...

    Irbis is kindda safe with its power but a small radar like on mig-29 would be less powerfull and more impacted.

    But its IRST might pick up the target anyway... or a ground based radar the MiG is operating with.

    If the Gripen can jam them then I suspect the packages the Blackjacks will deliver to the UK will get through no problem...

    And it was developed in the same time as Typhoon after the French took the decision to leave the typhoon programme.

    The Typhoon is turning in to a bit of an F-35 really... except with the Typhoon it will be fixed in the next Tranche, whereas with the F-35 we have decided that is not a fault because it is no longer an important feature to us so it will never be fixed because now it is not a problem.

    I would wager to say that the AESA tech is an expensive solution to something that can be done easily through other methods. The only reason why Russia seems to be quick in wanting to adopt AESA these days is entirely to do with marketing. Marketing has worked on not just some people here, but entire nations. Well, and AESA modules are becoming real cheap with Russia producing tens of thousands for everything from their ground based radar systems to the Su-35 L band AESA modules on the wings. Which was an interesting choice tbh. Hence their love for that jet over the MiG-35.

    Russia is not racing to introduce AESA radars because they are very expensive still and don't offer an enormous range of advantages over the much cheaper but still electronically scanned PESA radars.

    I understand.... many US strong will be saying you are underrating the AESAs because you don't have them yet, well while that is a fair call it does ignore western behaviour too... smoothbore tank guns are stupid and inaccurate... until western tank guns were smoothbore too... the PESA radar on the MiG-31 was inferior to the radar on the F-14 and not a particularly useful thing until they developed AESAs of course... then electronic scanned radars are everything.

    The fact is that most of the advantages without the extreme cost can be had with a PESA type radar... during an intercept mission a MiG-29 wont turn its radar on during the intercept anyway... it will fly to the coordinates it gets via datalink and then launch its missile using target information from ground or air based radar... when its missile gets close it will illuminate the target with its radar for a SARH R-27 shot or just monitor the results with its IRST with an R-77-1 shot.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:10 am

    As I said, it's power input to power output. Range advantage doesn't exist. What exists is it's other abilities like scanning and LPI mode and what not. Range is entirely up to the power output overall. Those modules don't power themselves.

    AESA has its benefits. But those benefits can be suplimented by pods instead (besides LPI mode or frequency hopping).

    As I said, there are benefits, but it isn't worth the cost or can't mimicked by pods.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:45 am

    Russian platforms will have better (ie improved) radars there is no question of that, there are a lot of questions over when and I rather think they will come down to practical questions like when their prototype AESA radars are fully functional and substantially outperform the radars they currently are using, because they will certainly be much more expensive than the radars they are currently operating.

    Russia is introducing AESA radars across its entire fleet... from ground mounted AESAs on tanks for APS systems to detect incoming rounds, and artillery vehicles to track outgoing rounds to improve accuracy... from Ka-52K naval helicopters, to the seekers of new AAMs and of course the enormous arrays on ships and also the arrays on all those ground based radars from standalone radar sets to the enormous mobile sets for SAM batteries.

    The other factor is new technology... photonic radar technology is being developed and might render existing radar technology obsolete... it might be vastly more capable... cheaper... it is supposed to be lighter and more compact and is reported to even be possible to be surface mounted on the skin of aircraft... things they learn developing normal AESA will be useful in further developing this newer technology I suppose, but it has taken decades for western AESA technology to mature and become useful... the question is are the Russians going to step on all those steps too or are they going to leap ahead like they did with hypersonic weapons.

    Right now the west claims leadership in radars, though if you are being honest you would have to admit their air defence network probably contains more radar than the west has combined, but a decade ago the west claimed leadership in hypersonic platforms that were going to beat Russian air defences and restore a balance of the west being omnipotent... the way they think is best.
    Gomig-21
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    Post  Gomig-21 Today at 4:20 pm

    Well the two Birghamini FREMM Frgates have gone through the Italian parliament and approved by whatever type of congress they have and currently they're removing the NATO standard equipment and replacing them with the standard export equipment as well as the VLS launch pads will have both types, not only the short range and block off the launchpads for the long range like the French did with their Fremm which I thought was a HORRIBLE thing to so as well as all the satellite comms when Italy is providing a specific military satellite specifically so the sat coms on the two Berghaminin frigates will work erfectly well. There's the difference between the French and the Italians whom I starting to dislike a little bit because of these calass games they're playing.

    Imagine giving us a pair of Mistral LHD completely defenseless and completely lacking it attach capability?!?!?! Not even any CWS whatsoever to the point where one of the Egyptian Engineers came up with the genius idea of mounting a pair of Avenger Humvee's on forward and aft of the ships?! People were laughing at that when it was the most genius attempt to add defensive capabilities to those super big and expensive ships.

    So I say the hell with the French and welcome the Italian deal with open arms including the 24 Typhoons as they can easily be incorporated with the Rafale squadrons as one, common fleet and even the pilots can be interchangeable as well as the crew. 6 months time and those are all one single unit that i MUCH more deadly than an all Rafale setup with the French being so squinjeely about every single gaddam thing.

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