Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+70
Kimppis
Rmf
szo
Kyo
type055
kvs
tempestii
2SPOOKY4U
EKS
Mike E
navyfield
bantugbro
mutantsushi
gaurav
mig7
RTN
Morpheus Eberhardt
Indian Flanker
Zinuru
Djoka
George1
Airbornewolf
lulldapull
Hannibal Barca
Alex555
Hachimoto
Giulio
havok
eridan
etaepsilonk
magnumcromagnon
Cyberspec
ali.a.r
Werewolf
CaptainPakistan
GJ Flanker
macedonian
Arrow
zg18
BlackArrow
Vann7
flamming_python
KomissarBojanchev
a89
JPJ
Rpg type 7v
Department Of Defense
collegeboy16
quetzacol
dionis
AlfaT8
sepheronx
NickM
TheArmenian
coolieno99
nemrod
Zivo
Firebird
mack8
Mindstorm
Sujoy
Deep Throat
Stealthflanker
SOC
TR1
Flanky
medo
Viktor
Austin
GarryB
74 posters

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    nemrod
    nemrod


    Posts : 839
    Points : 1333
    Join date : 2012-09-11
    Age : 59

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  nemrod Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:27 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    A waste of time and money ?...Hardly, the technology developed for the Type 30 engines alone would be worth the program cost, fitting Mig-31BM's with a fully developed Type 30 engines as wells as the nose mounted X-band AESA, and the leading edge L-band AESA could increase the useful lifespan of those birds by additional 20 years if their airframes are kept in good shape.

    The great question is :
    Can Russia afford it ? In my view, Russia cannot afford it, neither US nowadays. You will developp a fighter, where only 30% of its fleet is ready in the best case, but in the reality around 10% are ready. F-22 is optimized only against poor third world countries, not against Russia, China or India.
    Around 50 billions $ -it is not small amount of money, it is not nothing. - for the Pak T-50. Moreover, the AESA radar technology is not US origin, it is japanese origin. The PESA radar if I remember was soviet origin. Why must Russia follow US failling path ?
    Thrust engine if I remember, Russia is still the leader, no use to mention air to air missiles, the final decisive moment in fight is still dogfight, regarding that Russia, is not the last.
    Why will have Russia to follow the same F-22, and F-35's disastrous path ?
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon


    Posts : 8138
    Points : 8273
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:39 am

    nemrod wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    A waste of time and money ?...Hardly, the technology developed for the Type 30 engines alone would be worth the program cost, fitting Mig-31BM's with a fully developed Type 30 engines as wells as the nose mounted X-band AESA, and the leading edge L-band AESA could increase the useful lifespan of those birds by additional 20 years if their airframes are kept in good shape.

    The great question is :
    Can Russia afford it ? In my view, Russia cannot afford it, neither US nowadays. You will developp a fighter, where only 30% of its fleet is ready in the best case, but in the reality around 10% are ready. F-22 is optimized only against poor third world countries, not against Russia, China or India.
    Around 50 billions $ -it is not small amount of money, it is not nothing. - for the Pak T-50. Moreover, the AESA radar technology is not US origin, it is japanese origin. The PESA radar if I remember was soviet origin. Why must Russia follow US failling path ?
    Thrust engine if I remember, Russia is still the leader, no use to mention air to air missiles, the final decisive moment in fight is still dogfight, regarding that Russia, is not the last.
    Why will have Russia to follow the same F-22, and F-35's disastrous path ?

    What makes you think the PAK FA program is automatically heading towards disaster? Why don't we just look at satellite guided warheads: The U.S. developed GPS guidance for warheads first, and they ended up creating shells that cost $50-80,000 per shell, while Russia created GLONASS guided shells that only cost additional $1,000 per shell. Thats easily 50-80 times cheaper than the U.S. equivalent, and the PAK FA is designed to be stealthy, but not to the point of sacrificing all other aspects of the fighter plane. Do you really think that Su-35 just developed out of nowhere? It's a product that took several decades of experimentation and solutions, to develop the plane in to what it is today. Lets just look at aircrafts developed in the 1950's and then compare it to now. Over time the problems with stealth planes will have been overcome with smarter and better solutions.
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 40195
    Points : 40695
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  GarryB Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:27 am

    Can Russia afford it ? In my view, Russia cannot afford it, neither US nowadays. You will developp a fighter, where only 30% of its fleet is ready in the best case, but in the reality around 10% are ready. F-22 is optimized only against poor third world countries, not against Russia, China or India.

    A better question is can they afford not to continue to develop new technology?

    Without programs like the PAK FA they would not be working on data fusion and communications technology and by the way that article is bullshit... even Armata, Typhoon, boomerang, and kurganets will have data fusion... the Mi-28N and Ka-52 have data fusion, even the MiG-35 and Su-35 have data fusion.

    the main mistake is thinking that the PAK FA is the F-22.

    The Russians are not going to build 1,000 of these planes... most likely they will end up with 250 to 300 at the most, more likely less.

    Moreover, the AESA radar technology is not US origin, it is japanese origin. The PESA radar if I remember was soviet origin. Why must Russia follow US failling path ?

    AESA can do a few things that PESA can't. Both are a huge step forward with electronic scanning being near instantaneous so that widely separated targets can be continuously 'scanned' with no mechanical delay.

    Why will have Russia to follow the same F-22, and F-35's disastrous path ?

    The Russians aren't stupid... they saw the mistakes the US made and so far they are not repeating them.

    Weapon system development is measure/countermeasure. stealth isn't perfect but in some areas it makes things harder for the enemy... so if it is sensible and affordable it makes sense.

    Russia can't afford not to be at the forefront of aeronautical technology...
    Viktor
    Viktor


    Posts : 5796
    Points : 6429
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 43
    Location : Croatia

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Viktor Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:39 pm

    Something is happening thumbsup

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 37 RgKXHvn
    mack8
    mack8


    Posts : 1039
    Points : 1093
    Join date : 2013-08-02

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  mack8 Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:17 pm

    Nice, it's said to be static test airframe T-50-7. Looks like it has metal cowlings for the engines. Wonder what other changes it has.
    Viktor
    Viktor


    Posts : 5796
    Points : 6429
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 43
    Location : Croatia

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Viktor Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:22 pm

    mack8 wrote:Nice, it's said to be static test airframe T-50-7. Looks like it has metal cowlings for the engines. Wonder what other changes it has.

    and some more news from bmpd blog

    In Zhukovsky delivered new prototype T-50 ground tests
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 40195
    Points : 40695
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  GarryB Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:56 am

    Rolling Eyes When they developed RAM for the B-2, obviously it was a aircraft specific RAM

    Nope.

    When they develop RAM it is not for the aircraft it is to be painted onto, it is for the radars that will be used against the aircraft.

    A B-2 has RAM designed to reduce the performance of high frequency radar, but they can't paint it on thick enough to effect longer wave radar signals.

    With larger aircraft the shaping can be used to a degree, but very long wave radar don't even discriminate shape so shaping and mm thick RAM is irrelevant.


    Radar absorbers are loosely classified as "resonant" or "broadband". Resonant RAM is effective only for a discreet frequency or a set of discreet frequencies. Broadband RAM is effective over an entire band of frequencies.


    Which brings us back to... the point... development of the PAK FA can be applied to the existing fleet of aircraft... Rolling Eyes


    Hannibal Barca
    Hannibal Barca


    Posts : 1448
    Points : 1456
    Join date : 2013-12-13

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Hannibal Barca Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:23 pm



    With English subtitles
    Viktor
    Viktor


    Posts : 5796
    Points : 6429
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 43
    Location : Croatia

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Viktor Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:35 pm

    Nice, now hopefully during this year Russia and India will come to understanding to advance the project to the next stage thumbsup

    Russia, India Complete Draft Project for Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft
    sepheronx
    sepheronx


    Posts : 8775
    Points : 9035
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 35
    Location : Canada

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  sepheronx Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:17 pm

    Russia and India have completed preliminary design fighter FGFA
    This was in the program "General Staff", "Russian news service," said Regional Director for International Cooperation of the United Aircraft Corporation Andrew Marshankin. According to him, "already have the documentation and understanding of the scope of the next stage of design."
    Other details regarding the export version FGFA representative of the KLA did not disclose, reports Lenta.ru. Meanwhile, Marshankin said that most likely the Indian version FGFA will double in contrast to the single Russian T-50. This need is due to the fact that "in the harsh conditions of modern warfare is extremely difficult to simultaneously maneuver and fire on the enemy."
    In the development of promising fighter FGFA involved a Russian company "Dry" and India's Hindustan Aeronautics Limited. The share of India's participation in the project was set at 40 percent. Two-seater FGFA will be armed with the Indian guided missile Astra, and supersonic cruise missile "Brahmos" joint development with Russia.
    Viktor
    Viktor


    Posts : 5796
    Points : 6429
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 43
    Location : Croatia

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Viktor Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:32 pm

    PAK-FA cannon being tested on Su-30SM

    Russian fifth-generation aircraft T-50 cannons will get better
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 40195
    Points : 40695
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  GarryB Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:03 am

    I would suspect that on the PAK FA the pilot just needs to lock the target and pull the trigger and manouver the aircraft. The sensors will detect when the cannon shells will hit the target and only fire the gun when a hit is a certainty... making the gun more effective than a close in AAM in many ways.

    (Note the MiG-29 already has this capability... and has had it since it entered service in the 1980s.)
    Kyo
    Kyo


    Posts : 494
    Points : 541
    Join date : 2014-11-03
    Age : 75
    Location : Brasilia

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Kyo Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:55 pm

    Russia and India have agreed to accelerate the implementation of the project to create a fifth generation fighter - media
    01/22/2015 18:14:45
    Delhi. January 22. Interfax-AVN - India questioned the feasibility of a new R & D project of the fifth-generation fighter, as this may lead to delays in timing of this aircraft into service.
    "India agreed to accelerate the implementation of the project to create a fifth generation fighter with Russia," - said the Indian news portal NDTV, Commenting the results of the visit of Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu in Delhi.
    According to the publication, in the course of negotiations, the Indian side expressed its doubts about the advisability of signing a contract to conduct R & D on new fifth-generation fighter, taking into account the fact that some of his prototypes - Single PAK FA - is already being tested in Russia.
    Under the contract signed in 2012, each party must make under $ 5.5 billion on research and development project, including the development, infrastructure, building prototypes and conducting their flight tests.
    NDTV also notes that India's Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar in the negotiations expressed their strong desire to take a new fighter for the Air Force in India much earlier than originally designated date of commencement of supply - 2024 - 2025 years.
    India plans to build 127 new fighter aircraft factory Aviation Corporation Hindustan Aeronautics Limited in Nashik. The cost of the project to create a new fighter is estimated at $ 25 billion.
    George1
    George1


    Posts : 18472
    Points : 18973
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  George1 Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:40 am

    Upgraded 30-mm gun for the fighter T-50
    Stealthflanker
    Stealthflanker


    Posts : 1459
    Points : 1535
    Join date : 2009-08-04
    Age : 36
    Location : Indonesia

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Stealthflanker Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:49 am

    hmm any updates on PAKFA's avionics suite ?

    would love to hear more about PAKFA's AESA and perhaps image of PAKFA opening her nose Very Happy
    TR1
    TR1


    Posts : 5435
    Points : 5433
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  TR1 Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:03 am

    Stealthflanker wrote:hmm any updates on PAKFA's avionics suite ?

    would love to hear more about PAKFA's AESA and perhaps image of PAKFA opening her nose Very Happy

    I'd kill to see that too, but let's be honest, it will not be anything intersting (aside from RAM application). We know how NIIPs AESA face looks like.
    Werewolf
    Werewolf


    Posts : 5925
    Points : 6114
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Werewolf Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:59 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    Stealthflanker wrote:hmm any updates on PAKFA's avionics suite ?

    would love to hear more about PAKFA's AESA and perhaps image of PAKFA opening her nose Very Happy

    I'd kill to see that too, but let's be honest, it will not be anything intersting (aside from RAM application). We know how NIIPs AESA face looks like.

    Would be nice to see a PAKFA version of Vitebsk with DIRCM's that probably could also work as painters for targets for Morphei Anti Missile Missile capabilities.
    TR1
    TR1


    Posts : 5435
    Points : 5433
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  TR1 Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:51 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    Stealthflanker wrote:hmm any updates on PAKFA's avionics suite ?

    would love to hear more about PAKFA's AESA and perhaps image of PAKFA opening her nose Very Happy

    I'd kill to see that too, but let's be honest, it will not be anything intersting (aside from RAM application). We know how NIIPs AESA face looks like.

    Would be nice to see a PAKFA version of Vitebsk with DIRCM's that probably could also work as painters for targets for Morphei Anti Missile Missile capabilities.

    PAK-FA already had mockups/test articles of DIRCM, in the locations that otherwise were fitted with IRST/DAS like modules. Very intersting but it seems like they are serious about putting DIRCM on it from the start. Won't be Vitebsk though, something entirely new.

    EDIT: 101KS-O, wasn't it? Too lazy to check right now.
    Viktor
    Viktor


    Posts : 5796
    Points : 6429
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 43
    Location : Croatia

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Viktor Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:08 am

    Date is fixed sealed and .... farely close Very Happy

    Air Force Commander: new fighters T-50 will enter the army from 2016
    George1
    George1


    Posts : 18472
    Points : 18973
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  George1 Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:48 am

    Viktor wrote:Date is fixed sealed and .... farely close Very Happy

    Air Force Commander: new fighters T-50 will enter the army from 2016

    so that means that contract must be signed in 2015
    avatar
    szo


    Posts : 1
    Points : 1
    Join date : 2015-01-23

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  szo Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:23 pm

    T-50 for Iran and South Korea?
    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 37 Su-50%2BPAK%2BFA%2Bplan%2Bby%2BSukhoi
    Werewolf
    Werewolf


    Posts : 5925
    Points : 6114
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Werewolf Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:47 pm

    I really hope not, especially for South Korea which is US vassal, they will without doubt get their hands on it.
    avatar
    Vann7


    Posts : 5385
    Points : 5485
    Join date : 2012-05-16

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Vann7 Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:24 pm

    Werewolf wrote:I really hope not, especially for South Korea which is US vassal, they will without doubt get their hands on it.

    I can see US Gov bribing an Indian pilot with 300 millions USD $ and a nice apartment in miami to defect with their Pak-FA to pakistan so they get their hands on it..  Historically US have stolen many Russian planes in the past to learn everything about its technology  and Russia do nothing to avoid that. So how much time it will take USA to steal a pak-fa?  no even 1 year.. after any foreign nation gets one.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Stealthflanker
    Stealthflanker


    Posts : 1459
    Points : 1535
    Join date : 2009-08-04
    Age : 36
    Location : Indonesia

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Stealthflanker Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:27 pm

    I won't take anything from Deviant art related to arms info really seriously.

    That chart above is clearly fan-art.

    Nonetheless some (perhaps) Lots of ppl out there will think it's real.
    Rmf
    Rmf


    Posts : 462
    Points : 441
    Join date : 2013-05-30

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Rmf Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:48 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:I really hope not, especially for South Korea which is US vassal, they will without doubt get their hands on it.

    I can see US Gov bribing an Indian pilot with 300 millions USD $ and a nice apartment in miami to defect with their Pak-FA to pakistan so they get their hands on it..  Historically US have stolen many Russian planes in the past to learn everything about its technology  and Russia do nothing to avoid that. So how much time it will take USA to steal a pak-fa?  no even 1 year.. after any foreign nation gets one.
    so thats why it will be a dual -seater? Razz

    Sponsored content


    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Oct 03, 2024 12:32 pm