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Production Costs of Aircrafts/Helicopters

LMFS

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Post n°26

Re: Production Costs of Aircrafts/Helicopters

LMFS Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:21 pm

zepia wrote:Su-57 is roughly cost 30% more than Su-35. Being an entirely new platform that's not bad at all.
And the Checkmate projection cost is around the Su-35 price range. That's interesting.

The reported price of the Su-57 seems to be in line with the estimations we did here previously, so maybe we are not that bad after all Wink

As to the Checkmate, the reported price was meant for export, so it should be really cheap to produce indeed, probably between 1 and 1.5 billion

Last edited by LMFS on Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:32 pm; edited 1 time in total

JohninMK

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Post n°27

Re: Production Costs of Aircrafts/Helicopters

JohninMK Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:27 pm

I too wonder why the Su-30 is so low cost compared to the Su-35. So much in them is common between them both.

George1

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Post n°28

Re: Production Costs of Aircrafts/Helicopters

George1 Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:53 pm

Αnd Ka-52M cost is almost equal to Su-30SM

franco

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Post n°29

Re: Production Costs of Aircrafts/Helicopters

franco Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:24 pm

JohninMK wrote:I too wonder why the Su-30 is so low cost compared to the Su-35. So much in them is common between them both.

Not so much the 30M2 or SM version however the SM2 version is to incorporate Su-35S systems so would imagine the costs would be much higher for the 30SM2 versions.

d_taddei2

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Post n°30

Re: Production Costs of Aircrafts/Helicopters

d_taddei2 Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:09 am

So if we are going by export prices and actual prices the price difference is huge. So does this mean that the Su-34 will be cheaper than the Su-30SM? I read an article where Russia suggested it paid $36mn a piece for Su-34 and going by other articles they numbers given that Russia paid for aircraft would now seem not accurate but inflated.

"The Russian Armed Forces have received a total of 83 Su-34s, costing $36 million apiece"

Is a Su-34 really more expensive than a Su-30SM ($19.7mn more)? Is the Su-34 really more expensive than the Su-35 ($4.6mn more)? And is the su-34 really just $5.2mn cheaper than the Su-57?

I personally feel these figures are too cheap. I might be wrong but I feel something isn't accurate.

GarryB

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Post n°31

Re: Production Costs of Aircrafts/Helicopters

GarryB Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:56 am

I doubt the figure about the su-30. It shouldn't be far from su-35 price.

I presume they are talking about the original Su-30 which is an SM upgraded Su-27 really...

The upgraded Su-30s should be a similar price to the Su-35 because they are essentially Su-35s with two seats now... so they share all systems and parts...

Indians have paid their mki around 70 million piece. Su-30MK2/MKM are around 35-40 million $.

The most expensive parts in the Su-30MKI were the French and Israeli parts which pushed the price up considerably.

These days they could probably get Su-35s for less and those aircraft without any foreign bits added would likely have superior performance too.

Its still cheaper. You'd be hard pressed to find a Western jet that goes for sub-100 million $ a pop.

Exactly.... and that is a serious issue... the Indians are demanding F-16 and Rafale quality aircraft and are expecting to pay MiG-21 prices... and it simply does not work that way.

zepia

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Post n°32

Re: Production Costs of Aircrafts/Helicopters

zepia Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:05 pm

LMFS wrote:The reported price of the Su-57 seems to be in line with the estimations we did here previously, so maybe we are not that bad after all

As to the Checkmate, the reported price was meant for export, so it should be really cheap to produce indeed, probably between 1 and 1.5 billion

Oh, I was thought the $30m number is for domestic.
If they can manage to export with that price, even in the-least-option-possible form, it will really be market disrupter.

d_taddei2 wrote:So if we are going by export prices and actual prices the price difference is huge. So does this mean that the Su-34 will be cheaper than the Su-30SM? I read an article where Russia suggested it paid $36mn a piece for Su-34 and going by other articles they numbers given that Russia paid for aircraft would now seem not accurate but inflated.

"The Russian Armed Forces have received a total of 83 Su-34s, costing $36 million apiece"

Is a Su-34 really more expensive than a Su-30SM ($19.7mn more)? Is the Su-34 really more expensive than the Su-35 ($4.6mn more)? And is the su-34 really just $5.2mn cheaper than the Su-57?

I personally feel these figures are too cheap. I might be wrong but I feel something isn't accurate.

The Su-34 has entirely different front section, the radar, the cockpit, the landing gears, the tail string radar, the EW suite and other subsystems.
It is share only few parts with other planes in the platform. Therefor less cost sharing.

That is my two cent.

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GarryB

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Post n°33

Re: Production Costs of Aircrafts/Helicopters

GarryB Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:10 am

Oh, I was thought the $30m number is for domestic.

No. When they announced the figures there was no indication the Russian Air Force was even interested in it... that is the export price... and more importantly the operational costs are supposed to be 5-6K per hour, which is comparable to early model F-16s and Gripen which are obviously not 5th gen fighters...

If they can manage to export with that price, even in the-least-option-possible form, it will really be market disrupter.

That is the idea... cheap to buy and cheap to operate so instead of buying 12 or 24 or 36 at most... you could buy 100 or 200... and actually operate them.

Countries kept the MiG-21 in service for so long because its low operational costs made it affordable to keep flying it, while heavier more expensive aircraft were not being flown so much because of their operational costs.

Imagine the F-35 in UK service at 90K pounds per flight hour operational costs... even rich western countries that love to piss away money on war can't afford that.

The Su-34 has entirely different front section, the radar, the cockpit, the landing gears, the tail string radar, the EW suite and other subsystems.
It is share only few parts with other planes in the platform. Therefor less cost sharing.

Very good point... it is an optimised strike model that does not share radar or avionics or engines, though in future they could use standard engines for all their Flankers just to save a little money as there are no specific requirements for the Su-34 that would prevent it benefiting from using new engines for Su-35s and also used on the Su-30s.

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Production Costs of Aircrafts/Helicopters