Garry what's your opinion on the sa-6, sa-8,sa-9,sa-13? (Upgraded )
The SA-6 was flawed in the sense that one radar vehicle per unit could be knocked out with a HARM which rendered the whole battery vulnerable to unguided bomb attacks.
The SA-11 and SA-17 corrected that problem, but optical guidance upgrades would also make them rather more capable too.
The SA-8, -9, and SA-13 are all highly mobile systems and the OSA is reportedly very effective against low flying cruise missiles, but on their own their performance against enemy weapons or high flying threats is not really good enough to base an air defence around.
SA-22 and SA-15 on the other hand have the range and accuracy to really engage individual weapons directed at air defence networks with a very good chance of working.
Not to say 8, 9, and 13 are bad, but really only point defence type systems that in many ways are not hugely better than MANPADS in some ways.
In comparison SA-22 can reach heights the planes will be operating in... not many operate above 15km altitude normally.
Am I correct in saying that sa-4 and Tor haven't got any confirmed kills?
AFAIK, yes. But TOR is an exceptional system... very expensive but also very capable... one of the first SAM vehicles that was mobile yet had a proper 3D search radar and the ability to engage munitions as targets effectively.
And sa-2 through to sa-5 in upgraded versions are no longer a threat to western aircraft?
The originals are totally obsolete and are text book stuff for US ESM specialists to cut their teeth on.
Of course upgrades offer potential for under estimation and surprises that could get pilots killed...
I personally think the shilka is still deadly nothing you can do against a hail of 23mm rounds.
Tunguska uses heavier shells in two cannon that fire those heavier rounds at a higher rate of fire than Shilka over greater ranges with better accuracy...
As for S-300 I personally feel other forums talk it down because in reality they know it's good but don't want to admit it as it's Russian and not western.
The west breaks countries using their air force... to suggest there is a way of making the wests air force go away suggests there is hope for countries around the world potentially to say no to the west...
The west does not like that... it has spent and continues to spend enormous amounts of money... not on healthcare, or education to make westerners healthy or well educated, but on weapons to make the 1% a little richer than they were this morning.
If all of these short range systems work together, some passively (IR missiles and Shilka) other with radars and in a integrated air defence you can destroy lot of targets.
Agreed... and with minor upgrades like a thermal sight and optical backup guidance and totally passive command guidance with auto trackers you can have a defence system that is rather hard to crack.
Sa-6 is dead. Israeli lost lot of aircrafts to it but when they had correct countermeasures it wasn't good anymore. Buk are much better.
There are plenty of targets that need to be shot down that don't need super state of the art systems.
The SA-6 could be plugged in to an SA-11 or SA-17 battery and gain all the performance improvements in the newer systems, yet for lower priority targets like drones the old SA-6 missiles would be fine. Totally passive optical guidance and even flight performance upgrades like canards on the missiles to make them more manouverable would be a serious surprise for NATO let alone a lessor power like a neighbour.
I was in British army and all they had at the time was rapier static and tracked, and javelin shoulder launched and twin mounted on tri pod, starstreak was just entering service starstreak on paper looked good.
When your friends rip on Soviet air defence systems ask them what their western equivalent is... sometimes there is one but often there is not and most importantly even if there is an equivalent they likely only made a few hundred or perhaps a few thousand, but the Soviets made these systems in the hundreds of thousands.
The SA-1 had over 100,000 missiles made and they are still using them as target rockets to this day...