Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+65
PapaDragon
Stealthflanker
Vann7
Strizh
Khepesh
Bolt
k@llashniKoff
cheesfactory
alexZam
AbsoluteZero
EKS
Acheron
KoTeMoRe
smerch24
xeno
Rmf
victor1985
2SPOOKY4U
Brovich
cracker
mack8
Cpt Caz
OminousSpudd
Dima
ult
akd
chicken
Big_Gazza
GarryB
mutantsushi
fragmachine
RTN
NickM
Mike E
sweetflowers365
calripson
Asf
Vympel
AZZKIKR
runaway
magnumcromagnon
etaepsilonk
Morpheus Eberhardt
NationalRus
As Sa'iqa
Sujoy
Department Of Defense
Regular
gaurav
AJ-47
AlfaT8
Viktor
Werewolf
collegeboy16
Russian Patriot
flamming_python
Cyberspec
Austin
Mindstorm
KomissarBojanchev
medo
Zivo
George1
TR1
TheArmenian
69 posters

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    alexZam
    alexZam


    Posts : 343
    Points : 399
    Join date : 2015-04-23
    Location : SoCal

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 Empty Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  alexZam Wed May 06, 2015 5:18 am

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 0_9c49f_2dff0ef2_X4L

    By a_andreich.

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 40710
    Points : 41212
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 Empty Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  GarryB Wed May 06, 2015 6:55 am

    And where are the launchers for the top attack APS? And the "low" angle doesn't cover the top of the vehicle.
    I am disappointed.

    they are revealing to us what they want us to see... what makes you think just because you don't see it it wont be there?

    I seriously can't understand why they didn't implement an anti top attack APS system.

    What makes you so sure they haven't?

    "Top attack" @ 00:45.

    Hahaha... that is the solution... a big sheet of cardboard with black and white target squares that spike and javelin can easily see and target instead of the tank...

    And whole APS system is a big piece of shit! That's it, no need to defend useless crap.
    The most important part of the new vehicle family was the APS system and they failed miserably.

    If you can point out the APS system on the new vehicles and describe exactly how they function then we can take your word perhaps. If you can't how do we know you know what you are talking about?

    The Russians have rather more experience with APS than any other country on the planet... they tested Drozd in the 1980s in Afghanistan and are onto something like their 6th system now.

    Money robbed - smoke grenade launchers sold as soft kill APS.

    Someone speculates about smoke grenade launchers and all of a sudden it is corruption at the highest level... did Putin do it? TR-1 is that you?

    Vann you should retract and appologize the personal attacks/insults at once, i probably not entirely agree with Strizh's assessments either but you are disturbing what otherwise is a very interesting discussion with no insults that i have seen until yours. If not i will report you.

    Actually I was thinking what Vann was thinking... to use top attack mode both Spike and Javelin need a lock... something a TV guided missile (Spike) wont get through smoke or even dust on the battlefield and an IR guided missile like Javelin wont get with a decent thermal and radar obscurant suit (ie Nakidka-2). As found in Afghanistan most of the time Javelin wont get a lock because most targets aren't hot tanks, so it needs to be fired in manual mode which makes it a rolls royce pulling a plow.

    The tank has:
    360° coverage: with tubes + smoke grenade launchers
    Top coverage: no tubes + smoke grenade launchers

    That means (in any case) that the top is less defended than the sides as on top we lack the tubes.

    Assuming that several days out from the actual parade it is even going to be fitted with all essential elements. They stated that armata and kurganets and boomerang would be in the parade... they didn't say they would reveal all their secrets and show absolutely everything.


    collegeboy16
    collegeboy16


    Posts : 1135
    Points : 1134
    Join date : 2012-10-05
    Age : 28
    Location : Roanapur

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 Empty Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  collegeboy16 Wed May 06, 2015 8:25 am

    Strizh wrote:

    I seriously can't understand why they didn't implement an anti top attack APS system. And no the radars on the T15 are to low for top attack weapons, I've watched some videos and the incoming missiles are almost vertical - 80°.

    A huge disappointment dunno  
    that steep of an angle of descent is impossibru. for that to happen the missile must fly high until just above the target, maintaining LOS, and then suddenly pulling insane Gs into a descent. and my amateur eyes tell me these missiles arent made for that kind of turning performance.

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 40710
    Points : 41212
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 Empty Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  GarryB Wed May 06, 2015 10:29 am

    In any case these top attack weapons are incredibly slow... if the old systems could stop an RPG-7 warhead travelling at almost 400m/s horizontally... what makes anyone think they can't intercept a threat travelling at half that speed in the vertical?

    Drozd was not precise... it was just a bomb launched toward the incoming threat and exploded firing dense shrapnel sideways and forwards. Arena was basically the same but the munition was launched up and it directed a dense pattern of shrapnel down and forward so any troops nearby would be safer as the shrapnel was blown from up high directly down into the ground... intercepting the incoming threat on the way.
    alexZam
    alexZam


    Posts : 343
    Points : 399
    Join date : 2015-04-23
    Location : SoCal

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 Empty Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  alexZam Thu May 07, 2015 8:04 pm

    Boomerang back door... Thickness.

    (1785Кб, 2560x1920)
    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 14310201077000s
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 13570
    Points : 13610
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 Empty Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  PapaDragon Thu May 07, 2015 8:11 pm

    alexZam wrote:Boomerang back door... Thickness.

    (1785Кб, 2560x1920)
    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 14310201077000s

    Alex, a lot of your pics seem to be deleted cry
    KoTeMoRe
    KoTeMoRe


    Posts : 4212
    Points : 4227
    Join date : 2015-04-21
    Location : Krankhaus Central.

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 Empty Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  KoTeMoRe Thu May 07, 2015 8:55 pm

    alexZam wrote:Boomerang back door... Thickness.

    (1785Кб, 2560x1920)
    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 14310201077000s

    Very good POV. Excellent.
    alexZam
    alexZam


    Posts : 343
    Points : 399
    Join date : 2015-04-23
    Location : SoCal

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 Empty Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  alexZam Thu May 07, 2015 9:18 pm

    Finally, a top shot of Kurganets-25

    (273Кб, 950x713)
    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 14310080675172s
     


    TheArmenian
    TheArmenian


    Posts : 1880
    Points : 2025
    Join date : 2011-09-14

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 Empty Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  TheArmenian Thu May 07, 2015 9:58 pm

    alexZam wrote:Finally, a top shot of Kurganets-25

    (273Кб, 950x713)
    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 14310080675172s
     



    Alex,

    Your pictures are still not showing up.

    I right clicked on the x (in black) that was showing up, copied the URL and uploaded it on Tinypic. Here is the result that everybody will be able to see.

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 3131zb5
    Viktor
    Viktor


    Posts : 5796
    Points : 6429
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 44
    Location : Croatia

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 Empty Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  Viktor Thu May 07, 2015 10:40 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:Alex,

    Your pictures are still not showing up.

    I right clicked on the x (in black) that was showing up, copied the URL and uploaded it on Tinypic. Here is the result that everybody will be able to see.

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 3131zb5

    I havent such problem for some reason ... well - enjoy

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 Vmfa0ad
    alexZam
    alexZam


    Posts : 343
    Points : 399
    Join date : 2015-04-23
    Location : SoCal

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 Empty Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  alexZam Thu May 07, 2015 11:26 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:
    alexZam wrote:Finally, a top shot of Kurganets-25

    (273Кб, 950x713)
    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 14310080675172s
     



    Alex,

    Your pictures are still not showing up.

    I right clicked on the x (in black) that was showing up, copied the URL and uploaded it on Tinypic. Here is the result that everybody will be able to see.

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 3131zb5

    I don't know what sometimes going on, bro. Just a few complained far.. Most likely there are short times when 2ch.hk is downlinking and people might experience such problems. Or may be because this forum sometimes mishandles photos of huge size. I do apologize for your frustration, buddy. Just report which ones sometimes don't show - we all will try to reupload it somewhere else one more time. The reason why I'm taking photos out of 2ch sometimes - because they seem to receive photos faster than a anyone else. They quickly share them between each other, although level of discussion is ultra low usually there (too much of 'zealous Ukrainian trolls). So, the speed of receiving photos here, in my opinion, would help to attract more quality users to RD forum. Hopefully, more people like professor Lokos and such.

    Sorry again, bro. *handshake*
    TheArmenian
    TheArmenian


    Posts : 1880
    Points : 2025
    Join date : 2011-09-14

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 Empty Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  TheArmenian Fri May 08, 2015 3:46 am

    Thanks Alex.
    Keep up the good work.
    Werewolf
    Werewolf


    Posts : 5933
    Points : 6122
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 Empty Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  Werewolf Fri May 08, 2015 8:30 am

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 JYBkS
    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 KxNlR
    avatar
    Vann7


    Posts : 5385
    Points : 5485
    Join date : 2012-05-16

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 Empty Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  Vann7 Fri May 08, 2015 10:07 am



    So what kind of gun is that 30mm?

    Do the official GUN specification of all versions of T-15 and Kuganets have been released?
    Will it be 30mm? less ? 45mm? 100mm? or higher?
    KoTeMoRe
    KoTeMoRe


    Posts : 4212
    Points : 4227
    Join date : 2015-04-21
    Location : Krankhaus Central.

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 Empty Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  KoTeMoRe Fri May 08, 2015 10:24 am

    Vann7 wrote:

    So what kind of gun is that 30mm?  

    Do the official GUN specification of all versions of T-15 and Kuganets  have been released?
    Will it be 30mm? less ?  45mm?  100mm?  or higher?


    2A42 ... the diagrams shown by Werewolf however point to a different gun cradle architecture or completely different gun all together.
    avatar
    Vann7


    Posts : 5385
    Points : 5485
    Join date : 2012-05-16

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 Empty Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  Vann7 Fri May 08, 2015 1:01 pm

    oh wow.. this is stupid.. the armata indeed should be called experimental
    hardware...The Developers of armata are saying that if everything goes well with the trials,that the serial production of Kuganets will start in 2017-2018.  Neutral  



    SO forget about any discussion of its appearance and features ,the final armata
    might change drastically from the models we saw.. that are nothing more than prototypes.
    and the final armata could change.  Sad

    If they waiting 3 years to start mass producing Armata , they should fire themselves and
    more competent people replace them.. a tank should not take 3 years to fucking test it.. not even 1 year.

    Kurganets combat vehicles may start in 2017-2018
    http://tass.ru/en/russia/793643

    Russia is near the brink of a major war , and is at times like this that Russia should kick
    their Asses big time to get their army fully eqipped,and accelerate their modernization program.
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 40710
    Points : 41212
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 Empty Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  GarryB Fri May 08, 2015 1:10 pm

    Currently shown with a 30mm but future vehicles (IFV) will need a gun able to penetrate enemy IFVS and even at the moment 30mm is not enough against current western IFVs.

    A 45mm and a 57mm high velocity guns are being developed... TR-1 posted that the 45mm gun has won, which suggests future IFVs of all the vehicle families will be fitted with 45mm guns...

    It will take some time to produce and perfect the various vehicles and testing will take a while too.

    The electronic training systems the Russians bought from the Germans and finished themselves should make developing tactics and training manuals much easier and actually possible very soon... without even having the real hardware ready or in service...

    If they waiting 3 years to start mass producing Armata , they should fire themselves and
    more competent people replace them.. a tank should not take 3 years to fucking test it.. not even
    1 year.

    Don't over react Vann... this isn't a tank... it is every damn vehicle in an entire brigade and they have to test them all to make sure they work together... in one year you get time to test it in one summer and one autumn and one spring and one winter... and I really doubt that will be enough considering they are testing the integration of new net centric systems that have to inter operate with each other and other platforms including Havocs and Hokums and artillery and UAVs and indeed Armata, kurganets, boomerang, and Typhoon.

    That is an enormous task... how many years does it take for Microsoft to develop something as simple as an operating system... and they still fuck it up...

    We are talking about new versions of weapons, new ammo, new sensors, and new systems like new armour types, new versions of Arena, Shtora, ERA, DIRCMs, MMW radar etc etc...

    being on the brink of war with NATO means tactical nuclear weapons... not armour.
    George1
    George1


    Posts : 18552
    Points : 19057
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 Empty Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  George1 Fri May 08, 2015 2:20 pm

    Vann7 wrote:

    Kurganets combat vehicles may start in 2017-2018
    http://tass.ru/en/russia/793643

    why not from 2016? dunno
    Captain Nemo
    Captain Nemo


    Posts : 40
    Points : 53
    Join date : 2015-05-06
    Location : Croatia

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 Empty Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  Captain Nemo Fri May 08, 2015 2:22 pm

    Someone probably posted about that before, but I noticed that the Boomerang's front hatch periscopes only face front and left.
    No periscope facing right... Question
    avatar
    Austin


    Posts : 7617
    Points : 8014
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 Empty Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  Austin Fri May 08, 2015 2:48 pm

    Interview with deputy general director of corporation "Uralvagonzavod" Vyacheslav Halitov.

    Armata : http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/1954916?page=2
    Kuragnets: http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/1954916?page=3
    archangelski
    archangelski


    Posts : 624
    Points : 641
    Join date : 2015-04-25

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 Empty Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  archangelski Fri May 08, 2015 6:39 pm

    Boomerang walkaround :

    http://walkarounds.scalemodels.ru/v/walkarounds/afv/after_1950/btr_bumerang/
    alexZam
    alexZam


    Posts : 343
    Points : 399
    Join date : 2015-04-23
    Location : SoCal

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 Empty Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  alexZam Fri May 08, 2015 9:54 pm

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 Ua7LF

    Photoshop skills to "light up" a bit:
    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 6825023
    Werewolf
    Werewolf


    Posts : 5933
    Points : 6122
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 Empty Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  Werewolf Fri May 08, 2015 10:26 pm

    The gun is 30mm 2A42 with new casing. Test shooting with and without gun barrel casing have been performed and showed that this casing reduces due the stiffness which increases grouping of shots. You can see the huge effect on Terminator BMPT how the guns are flexing while shooting due the "poor" mounting. The gun on Kamov helicopters has almost no flexing due the good mounting.
    alexZam
    alexZam


    Posts : 343
    Points : 399
    Join date : 2015-04-23
    Location : SoCal

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 Empty Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  alexZam Fri May 08, 2015 11:42 pm

    Walkaround of Boomerang APC. Very detailed.

    http://walkarounds.scalemodels.ru/v/walkarounds/afv/after_1950/btr_bumerang/?g2_highlightId=726609
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 40710
    Points : 41212
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 Empty Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  GarryB Sat May 09, 2015 11:53 am

    Someone probably posted about that before, but I noticed that the Boomerang's front hatch periscopes only face front and left.
    No periscope facing right...

    They will have 360 degree view from roof and turret mounted cameras, the actual vision blocks in front and beside will just add to their vision.


    Sponsored content


    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 39 Empty Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Dec 10, 2024 2:39 am