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    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

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    AJ-47


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    Post  AJ-47 Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:18 am

    Zivo wrote:

    It looks well armed.

    with 40mm gun and it's very well protected with 32 ton.
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:23 am

    https://i.imgur.com/Byg0QSM.gif

    Not so huge at all.
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    Post  Austin Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:36 am

    ult wrote:Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 32 ElCKtfH

    What do those Stars and Stripes represent
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:39 am

    St. George Ribbon.

    Russia has been obsessed with it again for a few years now.

    The star is the new star of the armed forces.


    All looks like shit compared to the old Red Star IMO, or the Guards badge + white outline that used to be the parade norm.
    2SPOOKY4U
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    Post  2SPOOKY4U Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:42 am

    TR1 wrote:St. George Ribbon.

    Russia has been obsessed with it again for a few years now.

    The star is the new star of the armed forces.


    All looks like shit compared to the old Red Star IMO, or the Guards badge + white outline that used to be the parade norm.

    Nothing looks as good as the old Red Star,

    But St. George's Ribbon actually looks good on the sides of vehicles, especially with the horizontal orange stripes.
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:45 am

    The colors themselves are not awful, but the huge stripe just looks tacky IMO.

    A more subtle insignia is much better.

    http://www.wallpaperup.com/uploads/wallpapers/2014/05/11/351809/1e2b85dfe19332c5b41ffcc42834350e.jpg

    For example, that just looks dumb.

    The new star looks alright when its just in dark outline, but in color looks bad.
    Werewolf
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    Post  Werewolf Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:19 am

    TR1 wrote:St. George Ribbon.

    Russia has been obsessed with it again for a few years now.

    The star is the new star of the armed forces.


    All looks like shit compared to the old Red Star IMO, or the Guards badge + white outline that used to be the parade norm.

    Really obsessed with St. George Ribbon out of the blue when we would listen to people like you.

    Not the fact that a nazi junta was installed by US and their vassal boot lickers and pushed against russia which makes nazi backers shit themselfs.

    But of course there are no nazis in Ukraine, running military operations against own population, nazis running parties, IMF subhumans running as Prime Minister and illegal president.

    That all is just imagination and the russians are just stupiditly obsessed with enemies that do not exist, just like the americans seeing everywhere communists, socialists, terrorists and whatever buggyman they can justify to protect their hegemony to be used as fear mongering medium for the stupid western people.
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:44 am

    Seek mental help, as soon as possible.

    Your rant is worrysome.
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    Post  Cyberspec Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:18 am

    The St George stripes have historical significance and shows respect towards the vets. Personally I like them. Those that are irritated by them obviously have unresolved personal issues and feel the compulsive need to remind us again and again and again....into infinity Cool



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    Post  Cpt Caz Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:35 am

    Boomerang hi-res:

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 32 OdADS4d

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 32 RF3d0o3
    KoTeMoRe
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:39 am

    AJ-47 wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    cracker wrote:
    VBCI will get Jaguar update with 40mm chaingun+ATGM probably a Spike variation since the MMP isn't yet issue free.

    Yoy right about the ATGM, but the 40mm is not a chaine gun. It has telescopic ammo.

    Entirely true for the T40 turret my bad. However, while that's true for the demonstrator, we still don't know what the final ECPA/EBRC turret will incorporate. THE AMX 56 was designed with 20mm in mind, it ended up with a .50 cal. Same for the T40 ATMG's. Started MMP, now France's looking for Spike solution. I hope they can keep the cost down and have the telescopic solution. Because when all the current problems die out, France will be yet again a great shopping place and cooperation partner.

    BTW the engine placement is fairly conservative.

    Oh and this for comparison.

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 32 000127644

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 32 Blinde_1514907

    I think the French have sold to Russia FAR more than just a couple of boats. Am pretty sure the T-14 has also more French input that we might believe.
    medo
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    Post  medo Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:18 am

    Russia test Freccia and Centauro 8x8 vehicles and I think they also test VBCI with their Atom project. I'm sure they take good solutions from them.
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:35 am

    medo wrote:Russia test Freccia and Centauro 8x8 vehicles and I think they also test VBCI with their Atom project. I'm sure they take good solutions from them.

    Off course, but the the details so far indicate that the VBCI was a far more interesting solution.

    Knowing that Russia has had Thales BMS and that the Nexter would organically be more suited to RTD ergonomics, I'm fairly confident that the Boomerang is a Russian special based on those basics. A very sane choice that I salute. Coupled with Russian know-how this might be a hit on so many levels. Iraqi Boomerang at half the price of the Nexter's VBCI? Business just got better.
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    Post  Acheron Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:08 pm

    This is probably a stupid question with an obvious answer, but does anyone know why the tarp-covered APSs on the Kurganets IFV are asymmetric?
    There seem to be 3 of them on the left side and only 2 on the right (one is missing where that strange depression in the add-on NERA/ERA/composite/spaced(?) side skirt is located). That seems strange, since there should be no azimuthal bias of incoming rpgs/atgms, apart from the typical expectation that the majority of threats should come from the frontal ~90 degrees.


    TR1 wrote:
    cracker wrote:I bet this thing is much more expensive and complex than kurganets. Is it really needed? BTR-82 are good.

    Not for the crews inside those BTR-82s when they get blown up or hit with anything serious.

    Everyone uses wheeled armored vehicles for a reason, the inherent mobility and deployment advantage.
    Plus, much cheaper to run.  

    To be honest, even the most heavily armoured wheeled IFV (and its crew) is going to have a very bad day if engaged with anything more serious than a KPVT. In fact, the vast majority of wheeled IFVs only have their frontal glacis plates protected from KPVT rounds from a hundred or so meters away. An autocannon or an rpg-7 should have a field day with such a vehicle, especially against the almost vertical sides which the current crop of wheeled IFVs from around the world seem to be sporting. Call me a skeptic, but I was never overly fond of using a wheeled chassis for anything other than an up-armored taxi (i.e. APC). After all, wheeled AFVs were tested and rejected by most major nations prior to WW2 due to their poor firepower, off-road mobility and survivability vis-a-vis tracked AFVs (granted, wheeled AFVs possess merits such as unparalleled mobility on paved roads and inexpensive maintenance/construction costs). Since that time, the spectrum of anti-AFV options and their potency has only increased, with only a marginal improvements in passive armouring with the advent of composites (hence the popularity of NERA/ERA/APS in contemporary MBTs).
    Hence, unless someone is actually going to release a wheeled IFV which integrates non-passive armouring options seen on current and prospective MBTs, I am going to treat the protection levels of such vehicles with suspicion, no matter whether they are BTR, VBCI, Boxer or Boomerang.


    Last edited by Acheron on Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:54 pm; edited 2 times in total
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:15 pm

    TR1 wrote:https://i.imgur.com/Byg0QSM.gif

    Not so huge at all.

    I see it's the same thing as with the T-90 & T-14; in that the hull is higher, but as the turrets are unmanned in the new vehicles - the height at which a critical hit (still requires a 19-20 roll on a D20 mind you) can be dealt to these new vehicles is no higher; in fact slightly lower.
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    Post  flamming_python Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:19 pm

    Acheron wrote:This is probably a stupid question with an obvious answer, but does anyone know why the tarp-covered APSs on the Kurganets IFV are asymmetric?
    There seem to be 3 of them on the left side and only 2 on the right (one is missing where that strange depression in the add-on NERA/ERA/composite/spaced(?) side skirt is located). That seems strange, since there should be no azimuthal bias of incoming rpgs/atgms, apart from the typical expectation that the majority of threats should come from the frontal ~90 degrees.



    If there are 5 of them covering all arcs of the vehicle (and some distance upwards too) - then that means that each launcher will cover exactly 72 degrees; assuming all launchers are uniform.

    If so, then putting 3 on one side and on the other is perfectly workable for such a configuration; the ones on the right side will cover a 144 degree arc and the ones on the other side will cover the rest.

    It's also possible for instance, that 4 launchers are dedicated to threats along the lateral plane; with each covering 90 degrees; and one is dedicated to hitting top-attack threats. In which case the 5th could be placed pretty much anywhere on the hull
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    Post  Mindstorm Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:57 pm

    TR1 wrote:http://sg.uploads.ru/hu1nf.png

    Interesting. Looks like the combat taxi APC Kurganets version does not have APS.



    Werewolf wrote:Well it does not really need it.



    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 32 0_130350_bce94125_orig



    Wink



    Werewolf
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    Post  Werewolf Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:03 pm

    Mindstorm wrote:
    TR1 wrote:http://sg.uploads.ru/hu1nf.png

    Interesting. Looks like the combat taxi APC Kurganets version does not have APS.



    Werewolf wrote:Well it does not really need it.



    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 32 0_130350_bce94125_orig



    Wink




    Now i am dead certain they are just teasing and playing us like a damn fiddle, for the giggles..
    KoTeMoRe
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:07 pm

    May 9th is going to be all aaah an oooh's.
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    Austin


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    Post  Austin Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:08 pm

    Can any one post picture of 30 mm gum module on Kurgnets/Boomerang and the future 45 mm module , I dont seem to find it , Thank You
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:19 pm

    Page 57 of the Ground Forces thread in. I can't post the link since i'm a newbie... cry
    Acheron
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    Post  Acheron Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:21 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    Acheron wrote:This is probably a stupid question with an obvious answer, but does anyone know why the tarp-covered APSs on the Kurganets IFV are asymmetric?
    There seem to be 3 of them on the left side and only 2 on the right (one is missing where that strange depression in the add-on NERA/ERA/composite/spaced(?) side skirt is located). That seems strange, since there should be no azimuthal bias of incoming rpgs/atgms, apart from the typical expectation that the majority of threats should come from the frontal ~90 degrees.



    If there are 5 of them covering all arcs of the vehicle (and some distance upwards too) - then that means that each launcher will cover exactly 72 degrees; assuming all launchers are uniform.

    If so, then putting 3 on one side and 2 on the other is perfectly workable for such a configuration; the ones on the right side will cover a 144 degree arc and the ones on the other side will cover the rest.

    It's also possible for instance, that 4 launchers are dedicated to threats along the lateral plane; with each covering 90 degrees; and one is dedicated to hitting top-attack threats. In which case the 5th could be placed pretty much anywhere on the hull

    1) I guess that could work. It still offends my aesthetical sensibility. For example, if the designers of a certain tank decide to put an n+1 amount of smoke dispensers on one side of the cannon and n-1 on the other and then state: "That's ok, one of the launchers on one side are inclined in such a manner that it effectively mimics the missing launcher on the other", the obvious question would be: what is stopping you from following the KISS rule and making them symmetric?

    2) If the tarp-covered protrusions are actually APS charge dispensers, would it not be better to place the one that is responsible for top-attack munitions on the turret?  That way, there would be less interference from the turret and chassis.
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    Post  xeno Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:40 pm

    Austin wrote:Can any one post picture of 30 mm gum module on Kurgnets/Boomerang and the future 45 mm module , I dont seem to find it , Thank You

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 32 Epoha-10
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    Post  Austin Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:52 pm

    Thank You do you have the pictures of the poster on the right
    Cpt Caz
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    Post  Cpt Caz Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:12 pm

    Austin wrote:Thank You do you have the pictures of the poster on the right

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 32 VBq7wnR

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