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    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

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    Post  TR1 Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:33 pm

    The much smaller number of Boomerangs does suggest development has lagged compared to the tracked vehicles, as reports had suggested.
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    Post  2SPOOKY4U Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:00 pm

    [img]Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 31 P-455510[/img]

    That is one sharp v-hull.

    And good to see some large durable-looking wheels on it as well. It won't suffer like the Stryker.
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    Post  Zivo Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:30 pm

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 31 P-277710

    Camera, yellow arrow, notch outlined in red. It's an odd design choice.

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    Post  cracker Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:43 pm

    how's the tire building industry of russia? And to what these tires are vulnerable (all tires like on BTR or boomerang or stiker), like can they be fucked up by small arms, are they full, alveoled, or air pressured, in that case, there is an automatic "air pressure" control in case of holes?
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    Post  Werewolf Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:21 am

    cracker wrote:how's the tire building industry of russia? And to what these tires are vulnerable (all tires like on BTR or boomerang or stiker), like can they be fucked up by small arms, are they full, alveoled, or air pressured, in that case, there is an automatic "air pressure" control in case of holes?

    They work even if you drive on small mines, the tire is shreded to pieces but inside there are few metal rings giving basic "wheel" like attributes so it could drive on them, unless they have changed that design and just made normal tires, but i doubt that for heavy vehicles.
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    Post  smerch24 Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:49 am

    cracker wrote:how's the tire building industry of russia? And to what these tires are vulnerable (all tires like on BTR or boomerang or stiker), like can they be fucked up by small arms, are they full, alveoled, or air pressured, in that case, there is an automatic "air pressure" control in case of holes?

    I believe even the BTR-152 had automatic tire pressure regulator and the ability to still run after being punctured
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    Post  mack8 Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:24 pm

    Does anyone know the original source?
    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 31 111758_714826958_image

    Is the front of the hull like that by design, or there is actually some other section not installed yet that goes over and covers the wheel mechanism from the front etc.?
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    Post  cracker Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:00 pm

    I bet this thing is much more expensive and complex than kurganets. Is it really needed? BTR-82 are good.
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    Post  TR1 Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:08 pm

    cracker wrote:I bet this thing is much more expensive and complex than kurganets. Is it really needed? BTR-82 are good.

    Not for the crews inside those BTR-82s when they get blown up or hit with anything serious.

    Everyone uses wheeled armored vehicles for a reason, the inherent mobility and deployment advantage.
    Plus, much cheaper to run.
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:27 pm

    It looks a LOT like Nexter's VBCI. I know Form follows Function etc, but still.

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 31 Vbci_1

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    Post  cracker Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:51 pm

    bigger and probably better in every aspect. Russia was definitely impressed by the VBCI.

    I hope boomerang uses simpler and cheaper solutions for drive train, and also, the VBCI has lame armament for a modern vehicle.
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:58 pm

    cracker wrote:bigger and probably better in every aspect. Russia was definitely impressed by the VBCI.

    I hope boomerang uses simpler and cheaper solutions for drive train, and also, the VBCI has lame armament for a modern vehicle.

    VBCI will get Jaguar update with 40mm chaingun+ATGM probably a Spike variation since the MMP isn't yet issue free.
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    Post  Zivo Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:03 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    cracker wrote:bigger and probably better in every aspect. Russia was definitely impressed by the VBCI.

    I hope boomerang uses simpler and cheaper solutions for drive train, and also, the VBCI has lame armament for a modern vehicle.

    VBCI will get Jaguar update with 40mm chaingun+ATGM probably a Spike variation since the MMP isn't yet issue free.

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 31 VBCI-gets-greater-firepower

    It looks well armed.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:45 am

    like in the BMP-3, we will need to have a bigger hole than the one in the BMP-3, that’s will weaken the turret and that’s no good.

    Weaken the turret for what?

    there are no crew in the turret...

    RWS on the turret is a must and 23mm gun with coaxial 7.62mm MG will be the best option. The RWS will be operated by gunner no’-2. This way we’ll keep the gunners doing there jobs and the commander doing his job.

    there are only three crew... gunner, commander, and driver... the gunner will be engaging the target the commander tells him to engage... the commander will be looking for new targets and new threats and the driver will be driving where the commander tells him to... the commander has no time to be using weapons to shoot at targets... that is the gunners job... the commander is looking for covered places to fire from behind to direct the driver to drive from cover to cover and at the same time is looking out for new targets and new threats.... a new threat might lead to the commander to order the driver to drive to a new position with better concealment and cover from enemy fire, and he might command the gunner to hold fire on the target he was engaging and to attack the new target, but if he does then he wont be attacking new targets himself he will be monitoring for new threats.

    Enemy infantry spotted 4km away the commander might order a burst of 57mm HE shells... as the gunner is lining up the target an Abrams might drive into view... ie the gunner is engaging a valid target but a threat has appeared that is a much higher priority so the commander might order a hold fire... opening fire will get the attention of the Abrams if it hasn't already seen you... turning the turret himself the commander will order the gunner to engage the new threat first and order the driver to move to a place where only the armatas turret is showing for the abrams to aim at.

    With that example... having a commander operated 23mm cannon might allow the commander to engage the troops... but while he might monitor what they are doing he will hardly waste time firing at the troops when there is an enemy tank nearby...

    We have to remember that for fighting in urban areas we need to have a lot of firepower and good protection. To increase the firepower, we can put 2 RWS at the back, and on both side of the FSV hall, and every RWS will be equipped with 23mm and 7.62mm guns.

    A RWS is of little use if there is no one to control it.

    I see no reason for HMG as we have the 23mm gun; there is no need for anther type of ammo. I like the 40mm, but until one 40 mm round will hit the target; the 23 mm gun will put there 100 rounds.
    So I will stick to the 23mm gun and coaxial 7.62mm MG as the weapons for the RWS.

    The advantage of the 40mm is low recoil and very small compact weapon. A 7.62mm MG would carry rather more ammo than a 50 cal or 23mm, which would be useful, but effect on target on a modern battlefield is starting to be fairly limited...

    The TOS 1A as 6 km range. It has 2 support vehicles to help it with reloading.

    Will likely withdraw to a rear area to reload... even with a 6km range... it is an engineer vehicle.

    It doesn't even have a machinegun.

    how's the tire building industry of russia? And to what these tires are vulnerable (all tires like on BTR or boomerang or stiker), like can they be fucked up by small arms, are they full, alveoled, or air pressured, in that case, there is an automatic "air pressure" control in case of holes?

    Likely run flat tires.

    Unlike tracks one mine wont immobilise the vehicle.

    Camera, yellow arrow, notch outlined in red. It's an odd design choice.

    the area removed from the armour (ie in red) likely wont matter... impacts in that area wont hit crew areas and might not even hit an important part of the engine... in fact hits there would likely hit the frontal armour side on which is not an efficient way to penetrate armour plate.

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    Post  ult Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:57 am

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 31 Upload-RIAN_02610984.HR.ru-pic4_zoom-1000x1000-79046
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    Post  ult Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:17 am

    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 31 ElCKtfH
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    Post  flamming_python Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:24 am

    The Bumerang really is taken straight from Western designs, isn't it (unless we trace it all the way back to the BTR-60 which defined the shape in the first place)
    Apart from maybe the amphibious capability; which not everyone else can boast.

    To some extent the Kurganets-25 is too; although there is more obviously Russian heritage with that one.
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    Post  2SPOOKY4U Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:27 am

    flamming_python wrote:The Bumerang really is taken straight from Western designs, isn't it (unless we trace it all the way back to the BTR-60 which defined the shape in the first place)
    Apart from maybe the amphibious capability; which not everyone else can boast.

    To some extent the Kurganets-25 is too; although there is more obviously Russian heritage with that one.

    Taken from Western designs how?

    It has wheels? A driver? Armor? A turret? An Engine?

    In your opinion it has to have all sorts of radical new things, should they have gone with anti-gravity?

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    Post  xeno Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:33 am

    ult wrote:Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1 - Page 31 ElCKtfH

    sharp like a blade.
    Very unique and creative design, I love it...
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    Post  flamming_python Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:44 am

    2SPOOKY4U wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:The Bumerang really is taken straight from Western designs, isn't it (unless we trace it all the way back to the BTR-60 which defined the shape in the first place)
    Apart from maybe the amphibious capability; which not everyone else can boast.

    To some extent the Kurganets-25 is too; although there is more obviously Russian heritage with that one.

    Taken from Western designs how?

    It has wheels? A driver? Armor? A turret? An Engine?

    In your opinion it has to have all sorts of radical new things, should they have gone with anti-gravity?


    It bears more than a resemblance to the Patria, Terrex, Piranha and VBCI.

    More so than to the BTR-80 or BTR-90 at any rate.
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    Post  TR1 Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:55 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    2SPOOKY4U wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:The Bumerang really is taken straight from Western designs, isn't it (unless we trace it all the way back to the BTR-60 which defined the shape in the first place)
    Apart from maybe the amphibious capability; which not everyone else can boast.

    To some extent the Kurganets-25 is too; although there is more obviously Russian heritage with that one.

    Taken from Western designs how?

    It has wheels? A driver? Armor? A turret? An Engine?

    In your opinion it has to have all sorts of radical new things, should they have gone with anti-gravity?


    It bears more than a resemblance to the Patria, Terrex, Piranha and VBCI.

    More so than to the BTR-80 or BTR-90 at any rate.

    Automotive cutting edge knows no national boundaries.
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    Post  Cpt Caz Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:20 pm

    flamming_python wrote:The Bumerang really is taken straight from Western designs, isn't it (unless we trace it all the way back to the BTR-60 which defined the shape in the first place)
    Apart from maybe the amphibious capability; which not everyone else can boast.

    To some extent the Kurganets-25 is too; although there is more obviously Russian heritage with that one.

    Eh, it's a similar situation to the Space Shuttle and the Buran. When different things are designed with a very similar goal in mind, it shouldn't come as a surprise that the end products are, well... similar. dunno

    I see where you're coming from though. The BTR is iconic, and the 82A especially looks cool as hell with that 30mm gun. Still, I like the look of the Boomerang, familiar as it may be in some ways.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:05 pm

    Cpt Caz wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:The Bumerang really is taken straight from Western designs, isn't it (unless we trace it all the way back to the BTR-60 which defined the shape in the first place)
    Apart from maybe the amphibious capability; which not everyone else can boast.

    To some extent the Kurganets-25 is too; although there is more obviously Russian heritage with that one.

    Eh, it's a similar situation to the Space Shuttle and the Buran. When different things are designed with a very similar goal in mind, it shouldn't come as a surprise that the end products are, well... similar. dunno  

    I see where you're coming from though. The BTR is iconic, and the 82A especially looks cool as hell with that 30mm gun. Still, I like the look of the Boomerang, familiar as it may be in some ways.

    Good point, the most successful weapon system in human history is the legendary 'bow & arrow' which was developed by countless civilizations independent of each other.
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    Post  AJ-47 Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:04 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Weaken the turret for what?
    there are no crew in the turret.
    A big hole will make the turret less strong against kinetic rounds.


    Enemy infantry spotted 4km away the commander might order a burst of 57mm HE shells... as the gunner is lining up the target an Abrams might drive into view... ie the gunner is engaging a valid target but a threat has appeared that is a much higher priority so the commander might order a hold fire... opening fire will get the attention of the Abrams if it hasn't already seen you... turning the turret himself the commander will order the gunner to engage the new threat first and order the driver to move to a place where only the armatas turret is showing for the abrams to aim at.

    With that example... having a commander operated 23mm cannon might allow the commander to engage the troops... but while he might monitor what they are doing he will hardly waste time firing at the troops when there is an enemy tank nearby.

    We are talking about the FSV that so far we didn’t see.The old BMPT with crew of 5 get close to that.
    The FSV, will use the same chassis as the APC, and will have 2 extra gunners to operate the 2 RWS at the end of the vehicle. The 2 gunners will seat behind the 3 crew members and behind them we will have the turret with the 57 mm gun.
    In this arrangement the gunners will do there job, and the commander will do his as you mention.  
    Don’t forget, the FSVs don’t carry dismount soldiers, that’s the APCs job.

    BTW in my view the Army should be organized by the concept of High/Low mixed forces. In this concept, the Infantry will have the APCs as the Low and the FSVs as the High, in the tank group the FSV will be the Low and the tank will be the High.


    The advantage of the 40mm is low recoil and very small compact weapon. A 7.62mm MG would carry rather more ammo than a 50 cal or 23mm, which would be useful, but effect on target on a modern battlefield is starting to be fairly limited.

    The main job of the RWS is to fight against soldiers armed with MGs and RPGs for that the 7.62mm gun and the 23mm gun will be perfect.

    Will likely withdraw to a rear area to reload... even with a 6km range... it is an engineer vehicle. It doesn't even have a machinegun.
    After they fire there rockets there will be no enemy to fight with.
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    Post  AJ-47 Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:08 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    cracker wrote:
    VBCI will get Jaguar update with 40mm chaingun+ATGM probably a Spike variation since the MMP isn't yet issue free.

    Yoy right about the ATGM, but the 40mm is not a chaine gun. It has telescopic ammo.

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