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    Russian Ground Forces: News #1

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon May 14, 2012 8:05 am

    I more think Russian army will buy few hundred Centauro or more possible Freccia. It is in 25 ton class and they could buy them for filling the gap before Kurganets is developed and ready for production to form one or two medium wheeled brigades. It is not amphibious, so I assume, they will be stationed in regions, where this capability is not so needed. For other regions they will have domestic Kurganets, BTRs and BMPs.

    I disagree. Without amphibious capability... they might as well use upgraded T-72s... which aren't amphibious either and have better cross country mobility and heavier armour.

    Up to now, Russia is not buying only in few examples for testing, what they want from West. They buy 4 Mistrals, they buy 60+ Iveco LMV and want to buy 500 Panhard VBL for border guard units. I don't know if the deal for VBL goes through or if any of them come in Russia up to now.

    The Mistrals were a knee jerk reaction to the Georgian invasion of South Ossetia... they realised how vulnerable the Kurile islands and indeed claims to polar regions were because they learned the West would not support them and would act against them verbally, if not in actual action.
    This meant that they needed proven vessels quickly... they didn't have the 10 years it would take to design and then test and then put into production a Russian vessel, so they bought a modern proven up to date example off the shelf.
    With the Iveco they aren't even for the Army and the reason there was the urgency of Sochi being in 2014. Boomerang-10 and Tigr-M couldn't meet the timeline... and they did buy 10 and tested them.

    Talk of buying PVP for border guards is still just talk.

    I will repeat... this is just testing and evaluation and will not lead to Russian Army purchases.

    The change to light, medium, and heavy brigades has been planned for 2015-2016... and there is no urgent reason to put into service any stopgap vehicle.

    If they wanted a light armoured vehicle with a tank gun there is Sprut... which in my opinion is better than a wheeled vehicle with a similar gun... this Italian vehicle is not amphibious and is too heavy to be air dropped... and likely does not have armour superior to the Sprut either.

    I think it is time to shake up the MoD and kick out the guys who is pushing forward all these foreign purchases by ignoring the Russian developers and not supporting them.

    X2

    Actually for many missions I would think a 125mm gun would be over kill and a Boomerang-25 with a high velocity 57mm gun might be a much more useful vehicle. If you want full anti tank capability then mount 4 external launchers for Kornet-EM...
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Mon May 14, 2012 7:03 pm

    Russian Ground Forces: News #1 - Page 9 DSC_1492

    Russian Ground Forces: News #1 - Page 9 DSC_1495

    Bereg on parade, Novorosissk.
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    Post  George1 Mon May 14, 2012 8:01 pm

    This is the most stupid russian weapon. No country has antiship howitzer. Since there are antiship missiles, whats the use of this?
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Mon May 14, 2012 8:09 pm

    Heh, you think it has the same purpose as anti ship missiles?

    Nope.

    Anti ships missiles can't bombard shore parties, landing craft at close range, they don't have the same ammunition capacity, sustainable fire capacity...
    TheArmenian
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    Post  TheArmenian Mon May 14, 2012 8:10 pm

    George1 wrote:This is the most stupid russian weapon. No country has antiship howitzer. Since there are antiship missiles, whats the use of this?

    Good luck with your antiship missiles when the enemy ships and landing craft are near or at your shores. or amongst the myriad of islands along certain parts of your coastline. Antiship missiles don't work well in these conditions.

    The Bereg's guns are radar guided and are just like the main artillery of warships. If it is a good idea to arm warship with main artillery, why not for the coastal defence.
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Mon May 14, 2012 9:13 pm

    http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6302/8955119.4/0_7e309_f74d3919_orig

    a HUGE photo of a T-90 @ Moscow parade.
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Mon May 14, 2012 9:33 pm

    More photos:

    http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6300/8955119.3/0_7e1f0_3b6a5328_orig

    BTR-80

    http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6210/8955119.3/0_7e254_b458c2b6_orig

    Msta

    http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6111/8955119.3/0_7e1f6_a73b98a0_orig

    Topol-M

    http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6301/8955119.3/0_7e21c_5bd0cacd_orig

    Lynx

    http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6210/8955119.3/0_7e19a_2a8b0fce_orig

    Tigr

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue May 15, 2012 8:52 am

    This is the most stupid russian weapon. No country has antiship howitzer. Since there are antiship missiles, whats the use of this?

    Most Major ports in New Zealand had land based artillery to repulse an attack.

    Mounting it in a truck means it is not fixed to one location and can be deployed where and when needed.

    A Bereg Battery can operate with a Bal-e battery (Kh-35 anti ship missiles).

    An artillery piece can deal with small ships and large ships and everything in between and are not distracted by jamming or decoys.

    You can fire warning shots at enemy vessels violating your territory.

    You can buy several thousands 130mm shells for the price of one AShM.

    Of course having said all that the improvements made to the MSTA to greatly extend range and accuracy I think a new 152mm might be in order... 80km range guns would be useful...

    Perhaps even go for a 203mm calibre version with a guided shell and extended range?

    BTW TR1... nice photos... huge... but nice.
    George1
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    Post  George1 Tue May 15, 2012 12:08 pm

    An interesting interview of the Kurganmashzavod's CEO Albert Bakov:

    http://expert.ru/2012/05/11/generalnyij-plan/

    Salient points:

    1. BMD-4 was made exactly to VDV's specs, it's not accepted mainly because of Makarov's resistance to it.
    2. BMP-3 wan't accepted because it didn't pass trials. They've modified the design and should resume production soon.
    3. Ukraine is seen as a major competitor.
    4. Acquisition of foreign arms is a powerful stimulant for the domestic industry.
    5. Kurganets-25's layout is nothing new. Problems exist, but they are solvable.
    6. Main problem is squeezing the required amount of armor and the frontal engine into the amphibious package — it gets very nose-heavy.
    7. Another major task is the unmanned turret: military still require last-resort manual fire option.
    8. First prototype will be made this year, then it'ss be evaluated by the military.
    9. New BMP is designed to be modular from the outset, with the shorter variants such as BMD created by simple shortening of the chassis.
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Sat May 19, 2012 2:42 am

    http://trucks.autoreview.ru/archive/2011/13/Guard/RA1V5005_opt_b.jpeg
    http://trucks.autoreview.ru/archive/2011/13/Guard/DSC00328_opt_b.jpeg


    Nice big pic of Typhoon.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat May 19, 2012 4:27 am

    Kurganets-25's layout is nothing new. Problems exist, but they are solvable.
    6. Main problem is squeezing the required amount of armor and the frontal engine into the amphibious package — it gets very nose-heavy.

    Of course the Kurganets-25 is not a radical new design... the BMP-1 and BMP-2 had engines in the front to allow rear doors for exit and entry.

    The problem has been that the turret mounted weapons in the BMP-3 meant that a front mounted engine combined with heavier frontal armour would have made the BMP-3 too front heavy to be amphibious so they moved the engine to the rear so while it does have rear doors for entry and exit it also has roof mounted doors that also have to be opened for the troops to climb over the engine to exit the vehicle.

    Nice big pic of Typhoon.

    Typhoon or Taifun?

    Is it made by Kurganets or by Kamaz?

    Kurganets was making the Kurganets-25, the Boomerang-25 and Typhoon, and now Boomerang-10.

    Kamaz makes the Taifun, which is an armoured truck that is not for the army as a light brigade vehicle.

    Nice pics... thanks for posting.
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Sat May 19, 2012 5:00 am

    The MRAP ofc :p
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat May 19, 2012 5:28 am

    Yes, of course... Embarassed
    TheArmenian
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    Post  TheArmenian Sat May 19, 2012 7:53 am

    [quote="GarryB"]
    Is it made by Kurganets or by Kamaz?

    Kurganets was making the Kurganets-25, the Boomerang-25 and Typhoon, and now Boomerang-10.

    Kamaz makes the Taifun, which is an armoured truck that is not for the army as a light brigade vehicle.

    Nice pics... thanks for posting.

    The name of the factory is Kurganmashzavod.
    http://www.kurganmash.ru/en/
    medo
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    Post  medo Sat May 19, 2012 11:01 am

    TR1 wrote:http://trucks.autoreview.ru/archive/2011/13/Guard/RA1V5005_opt_b.jpeg
    http://trucks.autoreview.ru/archive/2011/13/Guard/DSC00328_opt_b.jpeg


    Nice big pic of Typhoon.

    Excellent pictures. How much different in capabilities are Ural and Kamaz Taifun? Both looks great and capable. I wonder if Russian army will buy both or will choose one between them.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat May 19, 2012 10:07 pm

    The name of the factory is Kurganmashzavod.

    Yes, I know, but for non Russian speakers Kurganets sounds like it could be a nickname for the makers name and it is much easier to remember than the actual name.

    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Mon May 21, 2012 8:32 pm

    https://2img.net/r/ihimizer/img72/9684/58181686.jpg'

    The impressive front armor of the Centauro.

    I would hate to think what it could stop if the vehicle is nose down at all.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue May 22, 2012 6:51 am

    You need to take the ' off the end of that link because it stops it from working.

    From what I have read the frontal armour is supposed to stop 14.5mm ammo, but it is clear they mean lower front based on this photo.

    By the look of that a 14.5mm anti material rifle firing sabot ammo in a specially designed smooth bore rifle (smooth bore to lighten the rifle and increase muzzle velocity to fire ammo that doesn't need spin stabilisation) should penetrate that vehicle from the front at extended ranges.

    Of course with a 24 ton vehicle you can't have heavy armour everywhere...
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Sun May 27, 2012 8:09 pm

    Peace mission 2012 starting in a few days, in Tajikistan.
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:33 pm

    http://dmitrydreamer.livejournal.com/29837.html

    37th Automotive training center, good pics.
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:03 pm

    http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2012/06/722.html

    !!! Rogatka upgrade may be fielded!
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:26 pm

    http://www.autoreview.ru/_archive/section/detail.php?ELEMENT_ID=123289&SECTION_ID=6923&sphrase_id=570052

    Autoreview of the Lynx in Russia.

    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:53 am

    http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2012/06/blog-post_1391.html

    Info about this absurd thing:
    Russian Ground Forces: News #1 - Page 9 0_8012b_88dae6c7_XL
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    Post  flamming_python Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:55 pm

    TR1 wrote:http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2012/06/blog-post_1391.html

    Info about this absurd thing:
    Russian Ground Forces: News #1 - Page 9 0_8012b_88dae6c7_XL

    ZiL strikes back? oO
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:55 pm

    Looks like a transformer that someone has stood on and then put on an off road chassis...

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