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    Russian Ground Forces: News #1

    TR1
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    Post  TR1 on Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:26 am

    This is...weird.

    http://lenta.ru/news/2012/04/03/billions/

    135 BMD-1s will be modernized for 1.9 billion roubles, or 14.8 million roubles per unit.
    But the modernization is to bring them up to....drumroll...BMD-2 status Neutral.
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    Post  medo on Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:42 pm

    Strange decision to modernize old BMD-1 instead of buying new BMD-4. Will they install newer turret from BTR-82A or from older BMD-2?
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    Post  TR1 on Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:46 pm

    Good question.

    BTR-82 with the 30mm is supposedly not very accurate when firing anything more than single shots.
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    Post  medo on Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:56 pm

    True, but it is still better than anything older, because it have stabilization and ballistic computer as well as combined day/night sight. The only unknown thing in BTR-82A FCS is laser range finder inside day/night sight, but ballistic computer could work only with laser range finder, because it need range data, so I could assume it have laser range finder.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:04 am

    I think it is a case of economics.

    If they buy BMD-3s then they wont have any money in the budget in 3 years time when everyone else will be getting Boomerang-10 and Boomerang-25 and Kyurganets-25 and Aramata.

    I rather suspect this is an upgraded T-72 for 1/5th the price of a new T-90AM so the troops still get thermals and upgraded communications and navigations etc and battle management systems to practise with and learn to use, and when Armata becomes available they will have more money to buy the new vehicle in larger batches.


    BTR-82 with the 30mm is supposedly not very accurate when firing anything more than single shots.

    It might sound a little strange, but if you are firing bursts then you don't want extreme accuracy.

    Against a manoeuvrable target firing a projectile that once it leaves the muzzle travels a fixed trajectory to impact you need a bit of spread of shots to ensure a kill.

    There are plenty of videos on Youtube showing Tunguska or Kashtan shooting down aircraft and indeed drones where the camera follows the drone and all of a sudden a shower of tracer crosses the frame as the burst of shells travel past. It isn't a narrow beam of shells all following the exact same trajectory, it is a spread like a shotgun blast.

    Very simply the BTR-82 is a bit light for the 30mm 2A72 cannon it carries, though its longer recoil stroke and lower rate of fire tend to make it more accurate than the 2A42, it also introduces less smoke into the vehicle when fired too.

    Against aircraft or a group of enemy troops then a burst of fire needs a bit of spread to be effective.

    The idea that the 30mm cannon is some sort of sniper weapon that will be used to target a certain part of an enemy armoured vehicle is a bit naive.
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    Post  TR1 on Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:29 am

    Well the same 2A72 on the BMP-3 has no such issues on the firing range. It can move and hit tank sized targets repeatedly. This is of because of the installation, a heavier turret, the 100mm paired gun as a stiffener, and tracked chassis. BTR-80 installation is much simper and you can see the gun spassing all over the place when burst firing.

    http://otvaga2004.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=516&p=26

    You can see here the discussion. Apparently BTR-82 30mm couldn't even hit a tank size target at 1km!
    2A42 is a laser beam compared to that thing!
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    Post  Mr.Kalishnikov47 on Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:38 am

    The way I see it, seeing as the only environment the BTR-82 is likely to be used in in the next couple of of years is in the North Caucasus region, in urban enviroments, up against a bunch of poorly funded "militants", the BTR-82's cannon is fine for it's job. I think all it needs to be able to really do is hit the broad side of a barn, literally Laughing That's pretty much how things go up there right? Spetsnaz surround the building with the bad guys inside, shoot off a few rounds, fire off a few RPG's, kill a Haji or two, then the BTR comes in, takes down the building, and finishes the job. Am I right?

    Just my opinion Smile
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:09 pm

    This is of because of the installation, a heavier turret, the 100mm paired gun as a stiffener, and tracked chassis. BTR-80 installation is much simper and you can see the gun spassing all over the place when burst firing.

    The 30mm 2A72 on a BMP-3 has a shared mount with the 100mm rifled main gun which absorbs a lot of recoil. Add to that the extra mass in the turret and the vehicle itself and you answer your own question.

    Short of having a recoil spade at the back like a self propelled artillery piece there is not a huge amount they can do.

    Actually fitting the muzzle brake of the 2A42 on the 2A72 might help a little.

    The irony is that the BMP-2 can't fire at its high rate of fire for any length of time because it fills the crew compartment with smoke. The longer recoil stroke of the 2A72 was not to improve accuracy but to keep the chamber closed for longer to reduce the smoke in the crew compartment.

    The 30mm 2A72 is quite a powerful weapon for a vehicle that size.

    Spetsnaz surround the building with the bad guys inside, shoot off a few rounds, fire off a few RPG's, kill a Haji or two, then the BTR comes in, takes down the building, and finishes the job. Am I right?

    Very Happy ... close... it is usually an RPO that brings the house down... Smile
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    Post  Mr.Kalishnikov47 on Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:22 pm

    [quote="GarryB"]

    Very Happy ... close... it is usually an RPO that brings the house down... Smile

    Dang! Beaten once again by Garry Mad Smile
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    Post  TR1 on Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:47 pm

    Woops!Russian Ground Forces: News #1 - Page 7 Em0cd
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:19 am

    @TR1... happens to the best of them...

    I remember seeing a Pantsir-S1 video of a missile getting clear of the launcher and then just exploding about 50-100m from the launcher... no damage to the launcher, and quite impressive.

    Just becomes a problem for the UXO team...
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    Post  medo on Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:50 am

    Good to see, that fuse mechanism work properly and didn't armed in that short distance. This really save the soldier.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:01 am

    Yes, hard to see what sort of rocket it is but if it was an RPO-A they would be in serious trouble if it went off...
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    Post  TR1 on Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:14 pm

    http://pressa-tof.livejournal.com/7304.html

    Nice pics of Giantsint training in the Pacific.
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    Post  TR1 on Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:30 am

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mym3p_zTpQw&feature=player_embedded#!

    T-90s pretend to be Royal Mud Marines!

    http://uploads.ru/i/r/B/q/rBq3s.jpg

    A pic from the even, with the famous T-90 dog.
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    Post  TR1 on Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:37 am

    http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6004/97688993.e/0_8ef1c_c3688bc0_XXL.jpg

    Damn, I want this photo from a better angle and resolution Sad .
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    Post  TR1 on Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:56 pm

    http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6107/70505514.23/0_8263a_1dbd7370_XXXL.jpg


    Nice big photo of the Tochka-U firing position during 8-8-8 war, the one where all those videos are from.
    Nice display of the sort of terrain the Tochka-U can operate and launch in.
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    Post  TR1 on Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:30 am

    http://www.yaplakal.com/forum2/topic426273.html

    Some very nice photos of tank loading on rails. Click to make the photos big. The tanks are not in service, but despite being out of service the T-62Ms look to be in good condition.
    Hope they do not get scrapped.
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:41 am

    They seem to be transporting them by train to be shipped somewhere.

    With the add on armour these vehicles would be pretty good for a smaller country that is not facing the latest and the bestest. The vast majority of low intensity conflicts that involve tanks rarely involve shooting at other tanks and largely revolve around surviving RPG attack and shooting HE shells directly into enemy strong points.

    The T-62M is as good a platform for doing that as any other and cheaper than most... especially if it is used in a fixed position like protecting a fire base where a chain link fence can be set up around it to protect it from missiles and rockets.

    Sounds a bit extreme using a tank for this sort of thing, but nothing concentrates enemy focus like a tank which would allow a clever strategist to hide other defences till an attack is launched and while the attack focuses on the tank you can hit them with something else they weren't expecting.

    If they would like to donate a few select vehicles to my toy collection I can give them the location of my nearest port and details of overland transport options to my backyard... Smile
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    Post  TR1 on Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:41 pm

    http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2012/04/blog-post_25.html

    Good photos of BTR-82 production (and others) @ AMZ.
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    Post  George1 on Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:31 pm

    Tell to that soldier woman that I SURRENDER to her!!

    Russian Ground Forces: News #1 - Page 7 G_dsc_10
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    Post  medo on Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:40 pm

    George1 wrote:Tell to that soldier woman that I SURRENDER to her!!

    Russian Ground Forces: News #1 - Page 7 G_dsc_10

    She is senior lieutenant.
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    Post  George1 on Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:56 pm

    Militaryparitet.com cited a blog citing Interfaks to the effect that Kurganmashzavod will not be asked to renew production of BMP-3s for the army despite earlier indications it would. The item notes the President’s polpred in the Urals saying the army has also declined to buy the BMD-4M.

    Mil.ru wrote about Ka-52 helo training at Chernigovka army air base in Primorskiy Kray. More than half the base’s pilots already practiced on the Ka-52 at the Torzhok training center. Chernigovka will be completely reequipped with the new helo this year, according to the Defense Ministry website. The “intensity” of flight exercises at the base doubled over the last year and increased 45 percent in the first three months of 2012.

    Mil.ru also mentioned the completion of LRA training in the Far East. There were 40 bomber flights and ten cruise missile launches on the Litovka range according to the Defense Ministry.

    Vzglyad citing Interfaks reported on Irkut’s president saying the company will make a combat version of the Yak-130 trainer. It will have greater thrust and be intended for Russia and for export.

    http://russiandefpolicy.wordpress.com/
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:17 am

    Militaryparitet.com cited a blog citing Interfaks to the effect that Kurganmashzavod will not be asked to renew production of BMP-3s for the army despite earlier indications it would. The item notes the President’s polpred in the Urals saying the army has also declined to buy the BMD-4M.

    I would expect they will upgrade existing vehicles and equipment with the electronics and night vision stuff needed to be able to practise their net centric stuff and train at night and in bad weather and save the extra money to buy new vehicles after 2015 when the Armata, Kurganets-25 and Boomerang-25/-10 become available.

    It means they don't spend billions now on brand new items like BMP-3M and BMD-4M when new vehicles to replace them are in development and expected to be in production in a few years time.

    Obviously they want to train in a net centric environment with new computers and comms and night vision equipment but it is much cheaper to instal that on existing vehicles rather than to buy brand new vehicles to get those features.

    It comes down to cost... if a T-90AM costs 4 billion and a T-72 with upgrades to give it modern comms, night vision, new ammo, new battle management systems for 1.2 billion then it makes sense to spend less now so you have more in the budget when Armata becomes available.

    Vzglyad citing Interfaks reported on Irkut’s president saying the company will make a combat version of the Yak-130 trainer. It will have greater thrust and be intended for Russia and for export.

    I wonder if he means the single seat version... a mix of two seaters and single seaters would be quite useful for most air forces... a light cheap to buy and operate fighter for air policing duties would be ideal for many European countries that do not intend to invade anyone...
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    Post  GarryB on Fri May 04, 2012 12:04 pm

    Chrisantema is not exactly brand new... it is the replacement for the Shturm/Ataka missiles on ground vehicles and soon on helos.

    It has combined SARH and laser beam riding guidance options that allow a vehicle equipped with a MMW radar to mark targets with both radar and laser to guided two missiles at two different targets at once.

    This is the website of the manufacturer:

    http://www.kbm.ru/production/ptrk/35.html

    Believed to be in service with Russia, Syria, and 3 vehicles in Libya.

    Sponsored content

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