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    NATO - Russia relations:

    Hole
    Hole


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    Post  Hole Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:05 pm

    franco wrote:According to an article from Al Jazeera, the UK is to lead the struggle to contain Russia so that the US can focus on China...yeah baby!

    "The United Kingdom is leading the fight against the Russian threat and is trying to expand its influence, relying on an agreement with Washington, according to which the United States is engaged in China and the United Kingdom is opposed to Russian influence," the publication said.

    https://www-gazeta-ru.translate.goog/army/news/2021/11/17/16873753.shtml?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui

    Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:07 pm

    They can't contain illegal immigration let alone Russia.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:14 am

    IMO mostly ammo. Most of eastern european armies still use soviet stuff. That should be in million of dollars.

    I would have thought most eastern european countries would be making their own ammo if they are still using soviet calibres... otherwise the US would be pressuring them into switching to their calibres and their weapons rather than buying ammo for them...

    Equally I would think they would buy Soviet ammo like 7.62 x 39mm ammo and 7.62 x 54mm ammo for their surrogate terrorist groups around the world from those same eastern european countries... as a reward for changing sides.

    Spare parts for vehicles/planes/helis.

    That would make more sense... parts for Hips in Afghanistan etc etc.

    According to an article from Al Jazeera, the UK is to lead the struggle to contain Russia so that the US can focus on China...yeah baby!

    Which is good news for Russia as it means toothless UK is going to be more of the same, and the US is going to be distracted with other stuff.

    Most of the sanctions were led by the US, or should I say pushed by the US... and implemented by the EU, because the UK and US don't have huge ties with Russia, so I wonder how the US thinks the UK is going to influence the EU when they can't even agree fishing rights and border agreements...

    They can't contain illegal immigration let alone Russia.

    If the US stops looking I suspect Johnson might try to start getting more trade with Russia with potentially lucrative oil contracts etc etc rather than less relations... but either is fine.
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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:51 pm

    franco wrote:According to an article from Al Jazeera, the UK is to lead the struggle to contain Russia so that the US can focus on China...yeah baby!

    "The United Kingdom is leading the fight against the Russian threat and is trying to expand its influence, relying on an agreement with Washington, according to which the United States is engaged in China and the United Kingdom is opposed to Russian influence," the publication said.

    https://www-gazeta-ru.translate.goog/army/news/2021/11/17/16873753.shtml?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui

    They have good stuff there but should take half a dose from now on ... Laughing
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:31 pm

    I would have thought most eastern european countries would be making their own ammo if they are still using soviet calibres... otherwise the US would be pressuring them into switching to their calibres and their weapons rather than buying ammo for them...

    Equally I would think they would buy Soviet ammo like 7.62 x 39mm ammo and 7.62 x 54mm ammo for their surrogate terrorist groups around the world from those same eastern european countries... as a reward for changing sides.

    Yeah until they see the price for switching all their weapons for NATO ones.

    Producing its own ammo isn't cheap. Even France can't. You need to invest a lot but also have many clients to make sustainable. Few countries do it.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:44 am

    Yeah until they see the price for switching all their weapons for NATO ones.

    Which would be why they need to keep their own ammo factories running, though it must be worth while to start making HATO standard ammo to sell to HATO partners because there is likely a good margin for sales involved for the makers.

    Producing its own ammo isn't cheap. Even France can't. You need to invest a lot but also have many clients to make sustainable. Few countries do it.

    If you don't have it then setting it up is complex and expensive, but for instance Yugoslavia made good ammo... the ironically named Privi Partizan ammo I have for my Mosin rifles is rather nice brass soft nose stuff. I would think they would find it worth their while to make 223 and 308 even just in the civilian hunting configuration let alone the HATO standard.

    But as mentioned I would think spare parts for equipment used by allies like Afghanistan (Hip replacement parts are expensive... ask any pensioner... Embarassed ).

    I suspect most of the ammo goes to ISIS or the Kurds in Syria and a dozen other "freedom fighting terrorists" around the planet... but I wonder why they buy from Russia rather than their new eastern european allies... they certainly wouldn't give money to Russia if they didn't have to... which makes me think it is more likely stuff they don't make like engine parts and aircraft parts etc.
    George1
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    Post  George1 Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:36 pm

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    Post  Guest Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:00 am

    NATO wants to go to war against Russia, not vice versa
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:01 pm

    Guest wrote:NATO wants to go to war against Russia, not vice versa
    No it doesn't, it knows it would be crushed.

    It wants to provoke Russia into attacking Ukraine so that it can (or thinks it can) turn Russia into an international pariah. This is economic war fought with Ukie cannon fodder.
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    Arkanghelsk


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    Post  Arkanghelsk Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:51 pm

    But , the fact everyone glosses over, is not just that it wants Russia to go to war in Ukraine.

    It's that the west toppled the government and installed freak nazis who pose a threat to Russia just like separatist chechnya did, and they support them the same way they supported dudayev and basayev.

    So even though there are economic impacts, Russia needs to remove the nazis from Ukraine as it removed the Islamists from chechnya and proceeded to hunt them down in syria.

    The good thing is Ukraine is the 3rd party land where all the nazis are like the Islamists in syria, and VKS can clobber them across the country while supporting a DPR backed government a la assad
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:46 pm

    Regime change in Ukraine (now Bnaderastan or Ukria) is fully warranted. The majority of Ukrainians (as opposed to Ukrians or
    Banderites) are oppressed and impoverished. They deserve Russia's help.

    But this has to be done in a way that fully discredits the Banderite vermin and does not give NATzO cheap propaganda points.


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    George1
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    Post  George1 Tue Jan 04, 2022 6:02 pm

    NATO-Russia Council scheduled for January 12, confirms official

    https://tass.com/world/1383783
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Jan 04, 2022 6:07 pm

    kvs wrote:Regime change in Ukraine (now Bnaderastan or Ukria) is fully warranted. The majority of Ukrainians (as opposed to Ukrians or
    Banderites) are oppressed and impoverished. They deserve Russia's help.
    ...

    Like f*ck they do

    The Ukrainians created this shit and they should clean it up on their own time, dime and most importantly blood


    Only once they show they are ready to spill blood of the supposed Nazis (not like they themselves aren't ones) will they earn the verbal and some diplomatic support

    Any kind of financial or military assistance can only come after they fully purge the entire place of the Nazis and put this entire issue to bed permanently




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    Arkanghelsk


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    Post  Arkanghelsk Tue Jan 04, 2022 6:14 pm

    It is a Ukrainian problem, but it is quickly becoming a Russian one as more and more NATO infrastructure is being accumulated there,

    This is no longer just a social problem, but a question of national security.

    If missiles are installed there the flight time to Moscow is 5 or 6 minutes

    Especially if NATO membership is awarded via some fast track system.

    US backing of Ukraine is as dangerous as US backing of basayev and the thuggish clans of khattab
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    Post  flamming_python Wed Jan 05, 2022 1:00 am

    Arkanghelsk wrote:It is a Ukrainian problem, but it is quickly becoming a Russian one as more and more NATO infrastructure is being accumulated there,

    This is no longer just a social problem, but a question of national security.

    If missiles are installed there the flight time to Moscow is 5 or 6 minutes

    Especially if NATO membership is awarded via some fast track system.

    US backing of Ukraine is as dangerous as US backing of basayev and the thuggish clans of khattab

    I suspect the Americans will only be deploying missiles there if Russia proceeds with equipping the Zirkon on its SSGNs

    Because that situation will also give Washington absolutely no warning; a Russian sub can launch a salvo of Zirkons at Washington D.C from 600-700km off the eastern seaboard of the US and hit all the targets they wish withing 5-6 minutes of launch

    This is probably what is being discussed between Putin and Biden, one of the issues anyhow.

    The current NATO infrastructure there however is not really a threat, and is not there in scale - it's mostly just instructors, and some Javelin ATGMs as the most sophisticated wunderwaffen so far supplied to the Maidanists. There is nothing that necessitates a military solution for the Ukraine. Russia is much better served by the ongoing de-legitimization of the regime there before its people as its economic, demographic and social fundamentals get worse, with the drawing down of gas transit in expectation of Nord Stream 2 commissioning being part of that.

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    Arrow


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    Post  Arrow Wed Jan 05, 2022 1:19 am

    flamming_python wrote:

    This is no longer just a social problem, but a question of national

    I suspect the Americans will only be deploying missiles there if Russia proceeds with equipping the Zirkon on its SSGNs

    Because that situation will also give Washington absolutely no warning; a Russian sub can launch a salvo of Zirkons at Washington D.C from 600-700km off the eastern seaboard of the US and hit all the targets they wish withing 5-6 minutes of launch

    This is probably what is being discussed between Putin and Biden, one of the issues

    I believe the US is more afraid of the Circons in the SSGN because it poses a huge threat to the US Navy. This missile offers tremendous potential for VMF. They are not about ground-based targets at CONUS.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Jan 05, 2022 3:56 am

    Arkanghelsk wrote:It is a Ukrainian problem, but it is quickly becoming a Russian one as more and more NATO infrastructure is being accumulated there...

    Some meat shields are not infrastructure

    Invading 404 while they are doing Russia's job for them would be exceptionally stupid and exactly what USA wants to happen



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    Arkanghelsk


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    Post  Arkanghelsk Wed Jan 05, 2022 5:46 am

    Russia is not planning to invade 404.

    But a solution to NATO deployment and use of this land to threaten russia, is in play.

    The Kremlin didnt issue an ultimatum so that it could be disparaged and thrown in the garbage bin in exchange for verbal promises.

    The fact stands. AEGIS ashore poland is being completed with romania already operational. Drills are yearly now with NATO in Ukraine. B61 bombs and delivery systems rotate constantly near to Russia. Recon assets are probing the russian border, and INF , open skies are all null and void. Nuclear B52 and B1 are flying out of lakenheath near peter and kaliningrad.

    Polish forces are massing near Belarus.

    Putin has held a meeting with the general staff, MOD, and everyone who means anything military in Russia on multiple occasions to frame the situation

    So you better believe, something has got to give

    Russia MUST do something about this, and it is , all the next steps will be taken accordingly based on NATO willingness to sign off on Russian demands. There is no middle ground, as Putin said Russia has retreated behind the border as far as it can. There is nowhere else to go.

    Jan 12 is a big day

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:45 am

    Kiev is the wests problem... Russia should not invade or interfere unless they do something stupid like what Suckarse Milli Vanili did in South Ossetia.

    Because Girl you know it true...

    The suffering in the Ukraine is not Russias problem, the west can spend some money and fix them up... that is what allies are for.

    Russia just needs to point out that any attack from Ukrainian territory will be considered an attack from HATO so all HATO targets become targetable in response... including the holders of the leash in the US...

    The real difference between missiles in the Ukraine hitting Moscow in 5-6 minutes and Russian hypersonic missiles hitting Washington in 5-6 minutes is that Moscow has an ABM defence system operating 24/7 to shoot that sort of crap down... Alaska is on the wrong side of the US of A to stop a Zircon from a Yasen in the North Atlantic from hitting the Pentagon or White House.

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