Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+18
lancelot
Podlodka77
Rodion_Romanovic
Isos
Hole
hoom
PapaDragon
Dima
TR1
flamming_python
George1
TheArmenian
runaway
Viktor
Admin
Russian Patriot
GarryB
medo
22 posters

    Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea

    Rodion_Romanovic
    Rodion_Romanovic


    Posts : 2486
    Points : 2653
    Join date : 2015-12-30
    Location : Merkelland

    Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea - Page 3 Empty Re: Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Thu Jun 22, 2023 8:19 pm

    Is it a modernised version with VLS?

    Cool, does it also have helipad, hangar for Ka-27 and Paket torpedo system?

    Or the version with pantsir and additional VLS does not have the hangar?
    Does Russia now produces the engines for it?

    Podlodka77
    Podlodka77


    Posts : 2589
    Points : 2591
    Join date : 2022-01-06
    Location : Z

    Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea - Page 3 Empty Re: Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  Podlodka77 Thu Jun 22, 2023 8:28 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:Is it a modernised version with VLS?

    Cool, does it also have helipad, hangar for Ka-27 and Paket torpedo system?

    Or the version with pantsir and additional VLS does not have the hangar?
    Does Russia now produces the engines for it?



    To be honest, bro, there are no more detailed data, but it looks good..
    Look at picture number TWOO and you will see on each side a four-barrel torpedo tube.
    There is no information about specifications and engines, but two UKSK launchers can be seen in the picture, one in front of the command bridge and one aft between the Pantsir-M. Launchers for 9K96 are in the middle..
    And this free part at the stern of the model does not seem spacious enough for a helicopter landing. There is no hangar..

    One thing is certain, and that is that such a ship would have universality; cruise missiles, anti-ship, anti-submarine warfare, close and medium range air defense system + GUN.
    And that is EXACTLY what I like.
    lancelot
    lancelot


    Posts : 2754
    Points : 2752
    Join date : 2020-10-18

    Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea - Page 3 Empty Re: Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  lancelot Thu Jun 22, 2023 8:36 pm

    From what I understand no more of these were built to fullfill the request by Vietnamese Navy because of no more engines from Ukraine.

    Podlodka77 likes this post

    Rodion_Romanovic
    Rodion_Romanovic


    Posts : 2486
    Points : 2653
    Join date : 2015-12-30
    Location : Merkelland

    Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea - Page 3 Empty Re: Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Thu Jun 22, 2023 9:39 pm

    lancelot wrote:From what I understand no more of these were built to fullfill the request by Vietnamese Navy because of no more engines from Ukraine.

    Yeah the Vietnamese Navy wanted (and ordered) at least two more of them.

    Possibly these new mods are with the new engines from Saturn...
    Podlodka77
    Podlodka77


    Posts : 2589
    Points : 2591
    Join date : 2022-01-06
    Location : Z

    Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea - Page 3 Empty Re: Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  Podlodka77 Thu Jun 22, 2023 9:43 pm

    To Rodion....

    One M55R gas turbine has 27500 hp, while two M-70 (project 11661) turbines have a total of 29000 hp or so.
    avatar
    wilhelm


    Posts : 346
    Points : 350
    Join date : 2014-12-09

    Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea - Page 3 Empty Re: Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  wilhelm Thu Jun 22, 2023 10:51 pm

    It needs a hangar for the helicopter.

    GarryB and Rodion_Romanovic like this post

    Podlodka77
    Podlodka77


    Posts : 2589
    Points : 2591
    Join date : 2022-01-06
    Location : Z

    Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea - Page 3 Empty Re: Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  Podlodka77 Sat Jun 24, 2023 10:13 am

    The problem is solved and the Russians have released the basic features and specifications for the Gepard 3.9 guard ships...
    It turned out that the mockup foresees the installation of 3 UKSK and not two as I wrote and one for 9K96 Redut and not two as I wrote. That's what I find strange and I don't like it. I am of the opinion that two UKSK and two 9K96 Redut launchers..
    It is also planned to install Paket-NK on the ship, as well as the installation of the "Palma" close air defense system.
    Two diesel engines of 10,000 kilowatts per engine would be responsible for powering the ship.

    Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea - Page 3 24-11610

    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 11347
    Points : 11317
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea - Page 3 Empty Re: Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  Isos Sat Jun 24, 2023 10:32 am

    With its 102m having two UKSK is already good. Redut is taking just as much space and needs radars as well additional control station and additional crew. Could work but don't expect long deployements.
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 39356
    Points : 39854
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea - Page 3 Empty Re: Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  GarryB Sat Jun 24, 2023 10:37 am

    Well to be fair the new model UKSK launchers can also carry surface to air missiles too, so by having a third UKSK launcher you can mix and match your load depending on the situation.

    According to this image:

    Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea - Page 3 Tpk1014

    Each tube can carry a single 9M96 missile (140km or 60km range model), or one Shtil-1 naval BUK missile, four 9M100 per tube or the last tube is a single 40N6 400km range SAM.

    That means you could load up one UKSK launcher with 8 x 400km range SAMs or 8 x 140km or 8 x 60km range or 32 short range CIWS 9M100 missiles, in addition to any missiles in the SAM launchers.
    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 11347
    Points : 11317
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea - Page 3 Empty Re: Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  Isos Sat Jun 24, 2023 11:16 am

    That doesn't change what I said. Redut take almost same space as uksk. And You still needs radars and dedicated control stations even if you fit AD missiles in uksk.

    This is a good solution for a green water navy. Or for local deployements like in Syria. But not for a blue water force.
    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6952
    Points : 7044
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea - Page 3 Empty Re: Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  ALAMO Sat Jun 24, 2023 12:31 pm

    Podlodka77 wrote:The problem is solved and the Russians have released the basic features and specifications for the Gepard 3.9 guard ships...
    It turned out that the mockup foresees the installation of 3 UKSK and not two as I wrote and one for 9K96 Redut and not two as I wrote. That's what I find strange and I don't like it. I am of the opinion that two UKSK and two 9K96 Redut launchers..
    It is also planned to install Paket-NK on the ship, as well as the installation of the "Palma" close air defense system.
    Two diesel engines of 10,000 kilowatts per engine would be responsible for powering the ship.

    Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea - Page 3 24-11610


    Look at the thing from perspective, again.
    It is about the size of Saar6.
    Does not look bad at all from the perspective, and the perspective is one of the most modern frigates out there.
    Will operate from closed seas/internal waters, covered with on shore AD assets.
    It is a missile carrier.
    And with both Redut and double Palma, it is hell of AD weaponry on board I would say.
    My question is if it gets the Vinetka towed antenna or only underkeel Zarya - a combination was offered with export Gepard class for a while.

    It is a nice, versatile ship with a strong push toward land attack role.

    Hole and Mir like this post

    Podlodka77
    Podlodka77


    Posts : 2589
    Points : 2591
    Join date : 2022-01-06
    Location : Z

    Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea - Page 3 Empty Re: Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  Podlodka77 Sat Jun 24, 2023 12:54 pm

    This is only a model, but also a ship that has a greater striking power than even the first 4 frigates of the Gorshkov project.
    As many as 3 UKSK launchers are in the picture of the model.
    I would rather go for two UKSK and two launchers for the air defense system, but who am I to decide..
    The ship definitely has sonar, but also the "Paket-NK" system, which the frigate 11356R does not have.
    The highest sailing speed of 24 knots is low, but no more can be expected from an engine with a total power of 20,000 kilowatts.

    The striking power of such a ship would definitely be great. Finally, the Russians would get another ship with decent anti-submarine capabilities. And air defense is solid, while there are apparently no helicopters. And that's about it.
    franco
    franco


    Posts : 6753
    Points : 6779
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea - Page 3 Empty Re: Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  franco Sat Jun 24, 2023 4:04 pm

    Podlodka77 wrote:The problem is solved and the Russians have released the basic features and specifications for the Gepard 3.9 guard ships...
    It turned out that the mockup foresees the installation of 3 UKSK and not two as I wrote and one for 9K96 Redut and not two as I wrote. That's what I find strange and I don't like it. I am of the opinion that two UKSK and two 9K96 Redut launchers..
    It is also planned to install Paket-NK on the ship, as well as the installation of the "Palma" close air defense system.
    Two diesel engines of 10,000 kilowatts per engine would be responsible for powering the ship.

    Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea - Page 3 24-11610


    IMO 6 of these would have been a better value then the 22160 class.

    Podlodka77 likes this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6952
    Points : 7044
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea - Page 3 Empty Re: Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  ALAMO Sat Jun 24, 2023 4:59 pm

    Both serve different roles.
    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 3303
    Points : 3305
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea - Page 3 Empty Re: Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  Mir Sun Jun 25, 2023 10:16 am

    The Caspian Sea should be covered by a lot of land based air defense - be it fighter aircraft or SAMs. That negates the need for Redut to a large degree.

    BUT Vietnam or other potential export customers could do with a dedicated air defense variant.
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 39356
    Points : 39854
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea - Page 3 Empty Re: Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  GarryB Sun Jun 25, 2023 10:22 am

    Redut take almost same space as uksk.

    But Redut is less flexible than UKSK at the moment.

    Redut carries one 9M96 missile or four 9M100 missiles per tube, but so does UKSK.

    The difference is that UKSK can also carry a range of other missiles and equipment too including land attack and anti ship as well as anti sub weapons all of which would be useful too.

    And You still needs radars and dedicated control stations even if you fit AD missiles in uksk.

    The newer SAMs are ARH and probably just need datalink communications and target updates rather than their own dedicated radars.

    This is a good solution for a green water navy. Or for local deployements like in Syria. But not for a blue water force.

    Being a frigate that is just sensible isn't it?

    And with both Redut and double Palma, it is hell of AD weaponry on board I would say.

    Both systems together give it air defence performance levels approaching that of modern British destroyers... and if you load SAMs in two of its UKSK launchers it could be rather better armed with 8 Zircon missiles and 16 x 400km range SAMs and you have Palma and Redut...

    I would rather go for two UKSK and two launchers for the air defense system, but who am I to decide..

    If the UKSK launchers can also carry SAMs then it would make more sense to have three of them.

    IMO 6 of these would have been a better value then the 22160 class.

    The Buyan is a pirate hunter designed to operate for long periods away from Russian waters... a different type of ship.

    I suspect the Buyan would also be interesting developed up to Frigate size as an escort type ship to support Russian trade around the world without spending too much money on huge numbers of destroyers and cruisers.

    zardof and Broski like this post

    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 11347
    Points : 11317
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea - Page 3 Empty Re: Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  Isos Sun Jun 25, 2023 10:35 am

    Being a frigate that is just sensible isn't it?

    Steregoushchy is 4m longer and is just a corvette.

    Weapons are not the only thing that matter. For long deployement internal space is precious. If your crew isn't confortable, they won't sleep well and won't do their work well and conflicts will happen for a yes or a no.

    Call it a frigate if you want that doesn't change the fact it isn't meant for a blue water navy.

    franco, Mir and Broski like this post


    Sponsored content


    Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea - Page 3 Empty Re: Gepard class frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Jun 18, 2024 12:21 am