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    China Arms Exports

    Pinto
    Pinto


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    Post  Pinto Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:35 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Argentina probably waS to purchase these Jets due to being dirt cheap and semi decent.  Argentina multiple times promised to buy various different weapons
    They end up not buying anything or a token number that sit idle.

    China already reversed engineered S-400 and claims it's better than it. Then their copies lost in Turkish bid. Then they themselves ended up buying S-400.  They can't reverse engineer it cause there isn't anything secret about what Russia sold them. It's the typical monkey model.

    As per what we have read - China's drones being sent back to China from UAE for being garbage, Syria's quantum radar not working as intended or barely functions, Peru MBT 2000 tank showing turret falls off, etc... I don't think China will steal much market other than dirt poor nations looking for Chinese handouts and China forcing them to buy (on credit) Chinese military goods in exchange for assistance.  And they learned this from the US.

    Quality has been an issue with many Chinese arms but i am most surprised at Argentine buying JF 17 in lieu of MIG 35....lol this is not even apple n oranges comparison its like comparing apples with poppy seeds
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:41 pm

    Even at the peak of the Cold War when the U.S was apparently fighting the communist the U.S government and the public considered China to be a friend and India to be any adversary. A sentiment captured perfectly in the book Scratches on Our Minds.

    The ridiculous thing is that if they can suck up to China in order to destroy the Soviets then why not suck up to the Soviets and save a lot of money on weapons you will no longer need.

    China was a basket case... like a North Korea but without the blockade... they built them up to be their problem.

    More importantly it just shows you that with investment any country can grow and develop... they wont necessarily become a regional super power, but they can grow and develop and raise their standard of living... which is good news for North Korea and Afghanistan and Libya... when the west is destroyed or comes to its senses and stops being a bunch of censored stifling growth everywhere except for the rich in the west then more countries could get a change at decent growth and development.

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    SeigSoloyvov
    SeigSoloyvov


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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:12 pm

    Anyone catch the Chinese arms expo? its funny how much of the crap they showed off was clearly reversed engineered russian gear. I find it funny the russians sell them stuff and china rips it off and sells it for cheaper.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Sat Oct 02, 2021 5:02 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Anyone catch the Chinese arms expo? its funny how much of the crap they showed off was clearly reversed engineered russian gear. I find it funny the russians sell them stuff and china rips it off and sells it for cheaper.

    I've been glancing at it, pretty much why they stopped selling big ticket items to them

    It's mostly reverse engineered Soviet stuff not Russian

    There's a lot of new Russian (and USA) looking stuff but this is less reverse engineered and more simply copied appearance


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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sat Oct 02, 2021 6:14 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Anyone catch the Chinese arms expo? its funny how much of the crap they showed off was clearly reversed engineered russian gear. I find it funny the russians sell them stuff and china rips it off and sells it for cheaper.

    They don't really sell russian copies or should I say no one buys them.

    And no one really knows what they are capable of because it is easy to create a S-400 launcher but what matters is what's inside.

    Moreover they don't wait to buy russian weapons to copy them. As soon as there is an image on internet of a new hardware they tell of of their design bureau to copy it. And that's true for even western stuff.

    Even the chibese army don't buy all of their products. They have thousands of differents missiles, drones, vehicles and other hardware that are exposed every year but most are not even in service and never bought.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Oct 03, 2021 3:53 am

    Everybody copies everyone else... the brand new state of the art Thermal Imagers the Russians are busy putting in everything are essentially evolutions of French and Swedish thermal imagers they previously bought or tested...

    Most of the time they will get a licence for production but when that is not possible... you make what you can.

    The Russian plan was for step one to be upgrade all ex Soviet stuff as far as possible to eliminate as many problems and issues as possible while also starting work on a new generation replacement designed from scratch to be better based on what you have learned from use and upgrading of the older stuff.

    Isn't that just what everyone does?

    Except often there is no money for the new generation stuff, or the new generation stuff is sucking all the funds out of the operational and upgrade budget...

    More a planning issue than a design issue.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:13 am

    Export version of pl-15 has a max range of 145km.


    East Pendulum
    @HenriKenhmann
    ·
    Sep 27
    #Zhuhai2021 La version export du missile Air-Air PL-15 - INS/Beidou, liaison de données bidirectionnelle, guidage par radar actif.

    Dimension sensiblement identique à celle du PL-12, portée 145km. Ils n'ont pas parlé du moteur de fusée à double impulsion

    China Arms Exports - Page 4 Faqoy610
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:44 am

    The Chinese equivalent of the R-37M, or more precisely the RVV-BD...

    But at about 200kgs it is 1/3rd the weight.... in fact three quarters the weight of the R-27ER...
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:34 am

    GarryB wrote:The Chinese equivalent of the R-37M, or more precisely the RVV-BD...

    But at about 200kgs it is 1/3rd the weight.... in fact three quarters the weight of the R-27ER...

    Wrong.

    Pl 21 is the chinese equivalent of the r-37.

    This one is in the medium range missile class. Main weapon of j-21.

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    MMBR
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    Post  MMBR Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:52 am

    2022 VN20

    Type 15 mbt converted into IFV with 2 x remote control machine guns one of which is on the rear.

    Copied 100mm, 30mm bmp3 weapon. Also has what appears to be a grenade or uav launcher

    www.armyrecognition.com/weapons_defence_industry_military_technology_uk/china_launches_its_vn20_most_protected_and_armed_tracked_armored_ifv_in_its_category.amp.html

    Has a nice paint job to match

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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:49 pm

    So its basically an uparmored BMP-3. Seems formidable enough, barring some questionable design choices -

    What's the purpose of (2) MGs at the rear?

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Nov 16, 2022 5:15 am

    Perhaps operating in urban areas without dismounting troops so they can cover side and rear areas incase of being attacked from behind.

    I wonder if they are going to go back to land battleships with multiple turrets and machine gun mounts for infantry support... sort of a modern T-35 except with machine gun and grenade launcher turrets with a tethered drone offering a gods eye view from a few hundred metres up...
    Tolstoy
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    Post  Tolstoy Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:40 pm

    NORINCO has introduced the latest gen of its mobile air defense system LD35, at the World Defense Show 2024.

    LD35 combines a 35mm automatic cannon,air defense missile& laser weapon into an 8x8 mobile platform, setting a new standard for integrated air defense capabilities.

    China Arms Exports - Page 4 Norinc10

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Feb 13, 2024 1:15 am

    Such vehicles really depend on their missiles... and most vehicles like this in the west fail because the missiles are often just MANPADS with a missile range of 6-7km at most, which is not good enough these days.

    I would also say the 35mm gun is not a bad gun but these days a 40-60mm gun would be a preferred calibre for the job at hand, especially with airburst and guided shells.

    For clarity with guided shells I don't mean missiles you can launch in any direction that will hit the incoming target, or rounds that will perform hard 90 degree turns or anything.

    The radar and fire control system should be able to calculate an interception box for the target.

    It is not an interception point, because after you fire the target might speed up or slow down (which would make it a line rather than a point), or it could climb or dive (which would make it a 2D flat plain where the target might be), or it might turn left or right (which creates the box).

    The more information you have about the flight performance of the target the more accurately you can calculate the size and shape of the box, but when firing unguided rounds your best solution is to fire a burst of shells that explode when they reach the box area with the intention of filling the entire box space with fragments so nothing can survive.

    With smaller calibre shells that didn't airburst like 23mm and 30mm you increased rate of fire to fill that box, which is good enough for slow moving aircraft or helicopters that are relatively large objects, but when small targets like drones and cruise missiles you had to significantly boost the rate of fire (like Kashtan with two 6 barrel gatling guns firing 5,000 rpm each) or go to a larger calibre and use air burst shells.

    These 35mm shells have air burst rounds which makes them more effective than 23mm or 30mm rounds with much higher rates of fire because the extra shell weight adds range and the airburst means they fill the boxes without having to fire off enormous amounts of ammo per target.

    Obviously now the Russians have airburst shells for their 23mm and 30mm shells, but their splinters are likely to be smaller so they will likely be good for drones but for bigger armoured targets you would use standard shells in the way they were designed.

    57mm guns extend the reach further and offer more internal volume for different ammo types...

    And of course a manouvering round can compensate for any manouvers that the target might perform after the round is fired making the intercept box much much smaller.

    Think of being on a shooting range... you fire a group of shots and you get a nice tight small group but it is low and to the left. Having bullets that detect that they are not going to hit the bullseye and manouver to hit it means they might alter their flightpath a degree or two in flight but the result is dead centre hits every time.

    You don't need 3D thrust vectoring engines... sometimes on a bigger shell a small airbrake or control surface that can be deflected a small amount would be enough to change the flight angle.
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    Post  Tolstoy Thu Feb 15, 2024 1:59 pm

    Norinco has revealed a new type of truck-mounted howitzer. The highly automated system, which is aimed at export markets, mates a 6x6 truck chassis with an unmanned turret containing a 155mm L/52 howitzer.

    https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pacific/2024/02/15/norinco-in-china-unveils-turreted-truck-mounted-155mm-howitzer/

    China Arms Exports - Page 4 Self_p10

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