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    Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

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    George1

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    Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  George1 on Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:49 am

    Club-T rocket complex

    According to the "Jane's Missiles & Rockets" magazine in James Bingham's article "Novator reveals new Club system, missile and range details", at the international defense and space exhibition Gulf Defense & Aerospace held in Kuwait in December 2017, the Russian JSC "Experienced Design Bureau" Innovator "named after L.V. Lyuliev "(Ekaterinburg, part of the JSC" Concern VKO Almaz-Antey ") for the first time introduced a new ground-based mobile version of its Club missile system (export version of the Caliber complex), designated Club-T.



    Unlike the first shown on the air show MAKS-2007 of the similar ground mobile complex Club-M (equipped with anti-ship missiles of types 3М54КЭ and 3М54КЭ1 and cruise missiles 3М14КЭ), the Club-T complex in the current version is intended only for the use of modified cruise missiles for the destruction of ground targets 3М14Э1 . Accordingly, the target designation means with the corresponding machine were removed from the complex, and only self-propelled launchers on the MZKT-7930 chassis with the wheel formula 8x8 are left, on each of which six transport-launch containers with cruise missiles 3M14E1 are placed.

    What exactly is the cruise missile version of the 3M14E1 differs from the previously demonstrated 3M14E / KE rocket, is not disclosed. Although officially, the Novator OKB Novator declares the range of the 3M14E1 missile at 275 km, but Mikhail Pakhomov, the head of the Novator's foreign relations department, confirmed at the exhibition in Kuwait that the range can be increased to more than 300 km that will exceed the limits of the Missile technologies (MTCR). The mass of the missile's warhead in accordance with the MTCR limits is declared at 450 kg.

    It is reported that the launch of cruise missiles from the Club-T launcher can be carried out within 15 minutes of deployment, launching the missiles at intervals of 5-10 seconds.

    Pakhomov said that they are close to completing the integration of the anti-ship missiles 3M54E and 3M54E1 into the Club-T complex (as you can understand, their application is supposed to be based on external target designation data).

    Also, the Novator Design Bureau at the exhibition in Kuwait presented materials on the new version of the 3M14E sea-launched cruise missile designated 3M14TLE intended for underwater launching from vertical submarine launchers (the Club-S system).

    The bmpd comment. Presumably, the self-propelled launchers of the Club-T complex are analogous to the most alleged US attacks on allegedly "extended" launchers of the Iskander-M version of the complex with the notorious 9M729 cruise missiles, according to the American side allegedly violating the terms of the Treaty on the Elimination of Missiles average and shorter range of 1987.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3026196.html
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:11 am

    Guaranteed that this is no secret that such system is being showcased. Simply because Club-T would be a system to pretty much counter US if they decide to break the INF treaty and having a ready to launch six Kalibr missiles with 2,000km would be the most ideal system to field.
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  AlfaT8 on Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:01 pm

    Gentlemen, what the hell just happened.

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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:16 pm

    Also note what Putin stated. The nuclear engine for this thing can fit on existing weapons like Kh-101 and Tomahawk (guessing on how it universally works). Awesome stuff.
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    gaurav

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    Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  gaurav on Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:21 pm

    Miketerrible wrote:Also note what Putin stated. The nuclear engine for this thing can fit on existing weapons like Kh-101 and Tomahawk (guessing on how it universally works). Awesome stuff.

    So the missile was photo/vision tracked from a sukhoi-30 it seems..? I mean the fighter was tracking the missile in flight (with eye contact).

    Hmmm.. they used to do a lot with kh-101 and may be with tomahawk.

    But this must be more advanced in carrying iinfrared jammers(DIRCM), infrared decoys , radar jammers and also a heavy armour/stealth on the missile.

    U.S missile defense will be totally fooled by such low level flight. Strange mix of hypersonic and subsonic weapons .. to completely out flank the U.S missile
    defense


    New Russian cruise missiles X-50 and GZUR
    entry is in top200 rating

    December 22nd, 6:14
    According to Pyotr Butovsky in the article "Russian bombers to be armed with new Kh-50 theater-cruise missile" in the magazine "Jane's Missiles & Rockets", Russian sources in early December 2017 disclosed the designation X-50 for the new Russian operational- tactical (sub-strategic) cruise missile. Sources said that the deployment of X-50 missile production is planned within the framework of the new Russian State Arms Program for 2018-2027 (GPV-2027).


    X50

    Scheme of the new Russian airborne cruise missile X-50, executed on the basis of the patent of Tactical Missile Armament Corporation

    I think the Kinzhal product is related to these previous 2 missiles

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    KomissarBojanchev

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    X-101/102 Stealth features

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:13 am

    From some footage I can see the podded jet engine still there on the X-101 cruise missile. Dont podded engines remove any stealth a missile(or aircraft has)?
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    Isos

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    Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  Isos on Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:28 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:From some footage I can see the  podded jet engine still there on the X-101 cruise missile. Dont podded engines remove any stealth a missile(or aircraft has)?

    The engine is under the missile so it is hidden by the boddy to all airborne radars specially the front of the engine. It changes nothing to its stealth.

    Moreover it flies very low so ground based radar will see it only when it is close to them. Even with a stralth engine it would be detected so better go for the cheaper engine they already have which is also much more efficient because they don't use an S shape entry to send the air in the missile as it is done on kh-35 or other western missiles.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:18 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:From some footage I can see the podded jet engine still there on the X-101 cruise missile. Dont podded engines remove any stealth a missile(or aircraft has)?

    Are you sure you aren't confusing them with Kh-55? Those do have podded engine but they were never stealth missiles to begin with.
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:29 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:From some footage I can see the  podded jet engine still there on the X-101 cruise missile. Dont podded engines remove any stealth a missile(or aircraft has)?

    Are you sure you aren't confusing them with Kh-55? Those do have podded engine but they were never stealth missiles to begin with.
    The X-101 is a modification of the X-55.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:22 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:....
    The X-101 is a modification of the X-55.

    Those two are as similar as MiG-21 and Su-57

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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:15 am

    The X-101 is a modification of the X-55.

    No it is not.

    Kh-555 is a modification of the Kh-55, Kh-101 and Kh-102 are completely new missiles with completely new engines... they are almost double the weight of the Kh-55s for a start.

    Contrary to popular belief most cruise missiles actually fly at medium altitude for the first part of a long flight and then drop down to lower altitudes to penetrate enemy air defences.

    This extends flight range by quite a bit.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    You could put 100 or 200 long-range cruise missile

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:31 pm

    Hole wrote:You could put 100 or 200 long-range cruise missile onto a barge that costs only a few 100.000 Bucks. No violation of the INF treaty. They could be moved around the canal system and rivers.

    In the world of tanks or similar realm sure not in realm of reality. Nope Suspect Suspect Suspect
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  TheArmenian on Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:27 pm

    Hole wrote:You could put 100 or 200 long-range cruise missile onto a barge that costs only a few 100.000 Bucks. No violation of the INF treaty. They could be moved around the canal system and rivers.

    So you want to build a barge and a ship to tow it.
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    Hole

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    Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  Hole on Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:11 pm

    There are already hundreds of tugs in service for that purpose. No need to build them. The barges could be moored most of the time. A floating missile base.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:12 pm

    Hole wrote:There are already hundreds of tugs in service for that purpose. No need to build them. The barges could be moored most of the time. A floating missile base.
    sure, so if concept is so good why nobody builds this? Simply it aint work, it is easy to trace with sats, slow moving object of high value. 200 Kalibrs is like a quarter of bllion $. + barge + protection+ whatever an done diversion group and bang.
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    Hole

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    Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  Hole on Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:47 am

    You mean it would be as easy to destroy as an ICBM base or and long-range radar system like Woronesch? Or the fixed ABM sides in Romania and Poland?

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    Hole

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    Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  Hole on Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:19 pm

    Here:


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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:47 pm

    That looks like it would give me diabetes.

    Mindstorm

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    Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  Mindstorm on Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:23 pm


    Only for the sake of information is necessary to recall to everybody that the the central requirement of any modern Navy today ,anywhere around the world, has beenin the last decade the so called "distributed lethality".
    The key element of this doctrinal concept is the capability to distribute between much smaller and lighter surface units, capable to independently disperse or converge in specified area using also zones not passable by bigger ships, the firepower now concentrated in bigger surface units.

    The obvious advantage is an enormous increase of the survivability of the naval offensive element as a whole (for units like Буян-М capable to employ even the rivers that survivability would even approach the level of the banned ground-based long range cruise missile platforms) in particular against air based attacks that should be forced to split among each indipendent targets falling easy prey of air defense or interceptor ambushs and an enormous complication of the enemy ISR tasks , particularly space based ones.



    Буян-М is the perfect incarnation of this modern naval warfare concept that also over the ocean are actively attempting to follow ,even if with a substantial technological backlog in comparison with domestic companies, that at today has not allowed the US to produce anything smaller and better equiped than the LCS.

    Is news of few days ago that the Norwegian Kongsberg "Naval Strike Missile" has been selected as the future cruise missile selected for this US class of ships attempting to apply the "distributed lethality" concept (large cruise missile initialization and separation from ships of similar tonnage, in particular Буян-М one, is an incredibly complex feat that US engineers have to still to master) ,anyone can easily understand the crushing difference, even under a strategical, not merely tactical point of view, with a Буян-М armed with Калибр.

    I believe that is not necessary, for what said until now, point out how the idea of barges with high number of offensive weapons would contradict the basis trend of medern naval requirements and doctrine, producing the effects opposites of what previously highlighted : substantial reduction of the survivability of the sea-based offensive pontential and the facilitation of the enemy ISR efforts.
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    Hole

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    Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  Hole on Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:39 pm

    Nope.

    If you put cruise missiles an barges camouflaged as transports for coal or timber or put containers with Kalibr missiles onto river container ships or freighters and then let the enemy know what you did, he would have to monitor all river shipping in Russia. Which would be nearly impossible to do. The enemy would still try it and spend billions and billions.

    You could also build a few barges with silos without putting missiles in them. Or reload missiles from one to another. The enemy would still have to treat any barge or freighter as an important target which he had to attack. You could lay a trap and deploy air defence assets in the near of this fake or empty targets.

    In the meantime your real assets could attack the enemy.
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    Isos

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    Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  Isos on Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:20 pm

    Hole wrote:Nope.

    If you put cruise missiles an barges camouflaged as transports for coal or timber or put containers with Kalibr missiles onto river container ships or freighters and then let the enemy know what you did, he would have to monitor all river shipping in Russia. Which would be nearly impossible to do. The enemy would still try it and spend billions and billions.

    You could also build a few barges with silos without putting missiles in them. Or reload missiles from one to another. The enemy would still have to treat any barge or freighter as an important target which he had to attack. You could lay a trap and deploy air defence assets in the near of this fake or empty targets.

    In the meantime your real assets could attack the enemy.

    Or just use civilian trucks that carry containers... they have thousand of them in every country. Cheaper, far harder to detect which one carry kalibr container and not affected by the river geography you can launch from anywhere you want your missiles.
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    Hole

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    Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  Hole on Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:26 am

    But would violate the INF treaty so max. range of 500km.

    Cancel the purpose-build barges. Just use the containers on river ships.
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    Isos

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    Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  Isos on Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:38 am

    Hole wrote:But would violate the INF treaty so max. range of 500km.

    Cancel the purpose-build barges. Just use the containers on river ships.

    INF works during peace time ... containers and missiles can be stocked in navy bases to be "used" on ships oor boats or barges but at day one they can just put it on trucks that are parked in the port ...

    The containers are totally independent of the carrier. And not fixed on them. You can move them from one to another in 5 minutes max with civilian infrastructures, no need military trucks for them.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:00 pm

    Mindstorm wrote:


    Is news of few days ago that the Norwegian Kongsberg "Naval Strike Missile" has been selected as the future cruise missile selected for this US class of ships attempting to apply the "distributed lethality" concept (large cruise missile initialization and separation from ships of similar tonnage, in particular Буян-М one, is an incredibly complex feat that US engineers have to still to master) ,anyone can easily understand the crushing difference, even under a strategical, not merely tactical point of view, with a Буян-М armed with Калибр.

    I believe that is not necessary, for what said until now, point out how the idea of barges with high number of offensive weapons would contradict the basis trend of medern naval requirements and doctrine, producing the effects opposites of what previously highlighted : substantial reduction of the survivability of the sea-based offensive pontential and the facilitation of the enemy ISR efforts.

    LCS and Buyan has different tasks arent they ? To me is  has little sense to keep building Buyans  since 22800 i already there.






    Hole wrote:But would violate the INF treaty so max. range of 500km.

    Cancel the purpose-build barges. Just use the containers on river ships.

    update software in existing missiles is simpler inst it? Anyway Kiznahls will take roles in point attacks in 2000 radius
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    Hole

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    Re: Russian Cruise Missiles Thread

    Post  Hole on Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:12 pm

    As long as the INF treaty is there you can´t just put long-range cruise missiles on land. My idea with the barges or container on river ships was an answer to glorious mike who wanted more missiles.

    Hypersonic missiles are a different topic. If the russians want to piss on "our friends and partners" in the west they cpuld just put some Zircons or a Version of the Kinzhal on trucks. No mention of hypersonic missiles in the INF treaty. Twisted Evil

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