Russian special military operation in Ukraine #50

Arkanghelsk wrote:Former Ukrainian Prime Minister Nikolai Azarov estimated on Monday that the population of Ukraine shrank by 4 million to 19 million in the past two month

In early October, Azarov said there were 23 million people living in Ukraine.
"According to the most modest calculations, only 19 million continue to live in the territory controlled by the regime in Kiev. It’s a scary figure," he wrote on social media.
He attributed the population decline to a massive outflow of workforce, in addition to combat casualties.


"Imagine that peace will be restored tomorrow. And a border of some sort will be drawn. Ukraine will need to be rebuilt! Who will do it if there is now a gaping workforce deficit?" Azarov added.

Must be true as the MoD November 20th briefing only claimed 340 Ukrainian casualties... lowest number I can remember.

Big_Gazza wrote:

This fcker is dreaming

Peace "restored"? Since when was Banderastan ever at "peace"?  As soon as these nazi cnts seized power in 2014 they launched a civil war against the Russian speakers, and have been murdering people in their homes ever since...

No mercy to these scum.  

Azarov lives in Russia

When he talks about this reconciliation with Russia, it is an extension of Moscows word

In fact Russia has given him diplomatic protection as lives close to Moscow and has been given political refugee status by Vladimir Putin himself

He and the other officials from Yanukovych cabinet make up the government in exile project, in fact Oleg Tsaryov is part of this Ukrainian Salvation Committee, and he was recently a target of assassination by SBU

The reason is that this project is a real project for how Russia will administer Ukraine through a Ukrainian government

You are crazy to think Putin will dissolve the statehood of Ukraine

His essay on the unity of Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus makes it clear what he thinks about it

Putin preserves Azarov, Oliynyk as a sort of shadow government from which the Ukrainian state can be rebuilt

That's why Azarov talks about this

Arkanghelsk wrote:
Azarov lives in Russia

When he talks about this reconciliation with Russia, it is an extension of Moscows word

In fact Russia has given him diplomatic protection as lives close to Moscow and has been given political refugee status by Vladimir Putin himself

He and the other officials from Yanukovych cabinet make up the government in exile project,  in fact Oleg Tsaryov is part of this Ukrainian Salvation Committee, and he was recently a target of assassination by SBU

The reason is that this project is a real project for how Russia will administer Ukraine through a Ukrainian government

You are crazy to think Putin will dissolve the statehood of Ukraine

His essay on the unity of Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus makes it clear what he thinks about it

Putin preserves Azarov, Oliynyk as a sort of shadow government from which the Ukrainian state can be rebuilt

That's why Azarov talks about this

They only need a sort of transition government in order to manage things for a while until those regions can be included into Russia.

Ukraine as a separate country does not work and will be only time until it sell itself to the highest bidder again.

Probably azarov and the others are needed to manage the population in the first months after the end of the military operation and to organise referendums/ etc.

Of course azarov himself cannot say that.

Possibly the new regional governments for the various new oblasts and republics (of course not as a single entity except possibly only initially) will be led by those former Ukrainian politicians which were close to Russia, or maybe they will form a sort of committee for the integration of the new regions of malorossia and krasnaya Rus into the Russian federation

lyle6 wrote:
What river? The river Styx?

The Ukrainians are getting their soldiers (and artillery) killed for nothing. That bridgehead is useless. There's no space to hide heavy equipment - they can't even get heavy equipment to the far side in the first place. Supply is limited to what the soldiers can hand carry. Zero possibility of a breakout.
Its a fucking killzone only the Ukrainians and their supporters are too stupid to realize it.

Imagine being led by people whose only goal is to steal as much and as long as they can, using you as a spent asset to buy more time for stealing.
And being surrounded by a propaganda atmosphere that reverses the reality, telling you that it is not you who will die any moment.
Having behind your back a society so much propaganda-driven, that won't believe you when being told how the situation is fucked.
Naming you a traitor, coward or someone so ineffective that can't win a war against a stupid enemy who uses shovels to fight.
Those are today's realities of Ukrowehrmacht trooper.
Apes from cages do even worse than that ...

Special Operation, 20 Nov 2023, Main; pub. 19:52:zap:

Russian troops have achieved an advantage during the special operation by introducing innovations, particularly in the field of electronic warfare, Forbes has reported. It is noted that due to the use of the Field-21 electronic warfare system, the Ukrainian troops cannot use the US Excalibur shells, as they deviate from the course and fail to hit the target. The author of the article also noted the successful use of Lancet drones. According to him, these highly accurate and compact drones are difficult to detect and neutralise on an unpredictable flight path, which makes it difficult for the AFU to retaliate.

Pentagon chief Austin arrived in #Kiev, where he said that the #US will continue to support #Ukraine. As the Pentagon specified, Austin will discuss with the Ukrainian leadership the strengthening of strategic partnership, as well as providing the AFU with combat capabilities needed for the winter period.

Russian fighters were able to "land" the US-made RQ-20 PUMA drone, which the AFU used in the #Zaporozhye region to monitor roads used by civilian transport. The #US drone fell due to the impact of Russian electronic warfare systems and was picked up by Russian servicemen. Its onboard module with a video camera was found to be in working condition, which allowed the drone's footage to be viewed.

According to the Russian Ministry of Defence, the Ukrainian forces have lost about 340 militants in all directions over the day. Russian units destroyed two armoured vehicles and five howitzers.


https://t.me/sitreports/18337

Trying to work in the mud. Be a while before that 'APC' is pulled out.

lyle6 wrote:

mr_hd wrote:So it seems that Ukraine has major breakthrough on the left bank of the river. Town Oleshky is evacuated right now...

What river? The river Styx?

The Ukrainians are getting their soldiers (and artillery) killed for nothing. That bridgehead is useless. There's no space to hide heavy equipment - they can't even get heavy equipment to the far side in the first place.

Wait until enough have crossed to justify the use of KER-POW

Do you know when one can be sure that the tide can't be stopped?

In moments like this :

It is some retarded TV show for ... retards obviously  
One gets a tattoo, but doesn't know what kind of.




Anyway, it clearly shows that Cocainsly is a meme already. It will roll downhill like a fukn snowball from now on...

Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu spoke about the enemy's losses suffered over the past month.

"In total, since the beginning of the month, the enemy has lost over 13,700 people, about 1,800 different weapons and military equipment," Shoigu said during a meeting of the board of the Russian defense ministry.

In particular, huge losses, as the minister noted, were suffered by units of the Ukrainian marines and special operations forces who tried to conduct an amphibious operation in the Kherson direction. All these attempts failed thanks to the proactive and professional actions of the Russian military.

https://tvzvezda.ru/news/202311211351-sI5xE.html

Almost four thousand students of Russian universities went on academic leave to take part in a special operation. This was stated by Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu.

"High patriotism and civic responsibility are shown by students of Russian universities. 3,933 of them took academic leave to participate in a special military operation," Shoigu said at a meeting of the defense department board.

The Minister added that students in the combat zone communicate with their relatives and friends, classmates and teachers through teleconferences. More than 200 people have already resorted to them.

Earlier, Shoigu said that more than nine thousand children of ITS participants had been admitted to Russian universities on a preferential basis.

https://tvzvezda.ru/news/202311211424-uopgC.html

I agree about t72 and t80s but this operation has seen also the use of older t55 and t62, even if not as main battle tanks (but they are still not worse than the leopard 1).

I think the point to remember is that these vehicles are not the same vehicles that went into storage, they have gotten upgrades to equipment and systems that make them more than what they were, but obviously no level of upgrade applied to a T-55 or T-62 will make it better than a later model tank with the same upgrades, but for many roles you don't need a better tank, you just need a heavy armoured vehicle that is protected from small arms fire that can carry a gun that you have lots of stored ammo for that you want to use up.

If you can't use these vehicles in this conflict then what sort of conflict are you waiting for?

What are you saving them for?

Note they didn't use their T-34s... AFAIK they have scrapped those already. When the wanted some T-34s for parade use they had to buy some from Myanmar I believe.

So an upgraded T-55 might not defeat the orc army and push them back to the Polish border, but these vehicles are mechanically simple vehicles that are easy to use and maintain and offer a powerful gun with reasonable protection for places that are not the front line.

"Our main task is to ensure that everything that happens now helps the Ukrainian army and, conversely, harms the Russian invaders. We want them to be hungry, cold, and have no desire to fight," he said, adding that the enemy should expect "surprises from the sky."

All the greatest military minds throughout history have mostly succeeded by warning their enemy about what they are going to do months in advance... like the big offensive for example.

I wonder when they will introduce airburst warheads for drones. A claymore mine would be so effective. I think if you see a drone coming at you, probably best to run towards it then turn 90 degrees as soon as it starts its dive and then dive for cover.

I would have a rifle... I would at least shoot at the damn thing... the closer it gets the better chance of a hit...

The Ukrainians and their "masters" have always tried to project what is happening to them as actually happening to the Russians

When it gets cold thermal imagers will be so much more effective when the trees and bushes lose their leaves, and the number if individual suicide drones the Russians have it wont be the bullet with your name on it... it will be the drone with your name on it...

Taking the experience of the SMO into account, the question arises if the assault gun will make a comeback.

That is interesting because a modern transmission and suspension could allow rapid and also precise adjustments for a vehicle that does not have a turret... a semi external mount gun with an autoloader at the rear with the engine in the middle and heavy front armour for the crew position in the front hull, with rear ramp doors for loading ammo directly into an autoloading system would actually be rather interesting... you could probably actually make it on a T14 base, or actually the T-15 base with the engine moved forward.

Hell, you might even manage to mount a 240mm mortar on the vehicle...

Flying pigs?

Or he still believes in Santa... he believes the Americans will save them...

Sure 100 or 115 mm ammo can do the job - but won't have the punch of higher caliber. Nor range.

Was thinking more 152mm or 160mm (mortar) or 203mm or even 240mm (mortar).

They could even make a short range near direct fire round for 5-6km range supporting roles in the direct fire role... imagine a 240mm gun/mortar vehicle with T-15 level armour...

Would need a reload vehicle like the one for Coalition.

Must be true as the MoD November 20th briefing only claimed 340 Ukrainian casualties... lowest number I can remember.

That is rather frightening because it suggests that they are trying to explain the number discrepancy between the population Ukraine should have and the population it does have. They have been hiding losses from their own population so how to you explain why they need more men and now even women to fight... ahh, they have left the country of course... I don't think there are 4 million dead, but they have to explain a lot of missing people...

They only need a sort of transition government in order to manage things for a while until those regions can be included into Russia.

They can't second guess... I rather suspect after a referendum takes place quite a few people will want an independent state, which is fine, they can be a buffer between the west and Russia. Not the lucrative position it might have otherwise been because I rather doubt there will be a lot of trade between Russia and the west.

Imagine being led by people whose only goal is to steal as much and as long as they can, using you as a spent asset to buy more time for stealing.
And being surrounded by a propaganda atmosphere that reverses the reality, telling you that it is not you who will die any moment.
Having behind your back a society so much propaganda-driven, that won't believe you when being told how the situation is fucked.
Naming you a traitor, coward or someone so ineffective that can't win a war against a stupid enemy who uses shovels to fight.
Those are today's realities of Ukrowehrmacht trooper.
Apes from cages do even worse than that ...

Snowden, Assange, Manning... can all relate to that... when you report war crimes and nothing happens so you go public to bypass your corrupt management and the news media turns on you and you end up in jail or in a foreign country hiding from your own government...

Doesn't even matter if you took the red pill or the blue pill...

Wait until enough have crossed to justify the use of KER-POW

The really funny thing is that the Russians held back the use of cluster munitions because most countries in the world had condemned them, but when the US was running low on conventional 155mm artillery shells and took the decision to open Pandoras box and provide cluster bomb munition rounds for their 155mm guns which were in storage awaiting disposal because they had decided not to use them any more it might have been a small respite for Ukraine getting shells to fire they wouldn't have gotten otherwise... but cluster munitions for the most part are anti personnel weapons that spread fragments all over the place... but being inside armour or under cover is a reasonable defence. The most important impact however is that now that the US has effectively started it Russia can now use all the cluster warhead weapons they have and their range is enormous from rockets and artillery as well as air delivered bombs... including using their new glide kits with guidance systems and payloads on their cruise missiles.

It has probably been a significant percentage of their stored ammo supply that was otherwise not very usable, but now they can use it and the real irony is that cluster warheads are very good against troops in the open that are spread out because it spreads the fragments over a much wider area than even very big bombs do.

Being able to load up 122mm rocket vehicles with anti personnel cluster munitions makes them absolutely devastating against troops on foot or in light vehicles, and all their rocket types can carry these munitions.

One of the 300mm Smerch rockets can carry over 600 anti armour HEAT sub-munitions that are also designed to fragment to kill troops in the open too... all in a single rocket...

Their bomber aircraft can deliver cluster bombs now too... remember during Desert Storm when Iraqi soldiers were retreating from Kuwait as agreed and the Americans sent their air power in and obliterated them with B-52s and A-10s and Apaches... imagine how many nazis the Russians will be able to kill if this turns into a collapse.

apparently Armenia is going to be sending Ukraine 200 Tochka U missiles, Russia should tell Azerbaijan that it will no longer assist Armenia

Godric wrote:apparently Armenia is going to be sending Ukraine 200 Tochka U missiles, Russia should tell Azerbaijan that it will no longer assist Armenia

We need more legit sources, not saying it is true or not, just says wait.

I believe it is a clickbait.
It is arguable if Armenia has 200 Tochkas at all.
This number is huge.
Ukraine used to have some 400 missiles back in 1991.
How many of those could have stationed in Armenia?
Besides, they have used the stock for endless wars with the Azeris, and the fact that they purchased Iskanders a long time ago speaks for itself.
I would call it a fake news made to spoil the climate even more.

I would have a rifle... I would at least shoot at the damn thing... the closer it gets the better chance of a hit... wrote:

Such a drone would best enter a hover over the target at realatively high altituide 200m or so. Barely visible. Then the props will reverse and it would plunge down and the claymore would be triggered by a simple ground prox sensor. (like a backup sensor on a car) . even if you hit it it will still trigger.

I heard those scumbag Armenians are giving Ukraine 200 Torchka missiles. I think they are eager to be Ukraine II.

you could probably actually make it on a T14 base, or actually the T-15 base with the engine moved forward.

A nice Armata chassis with a nice short-barreled 152mm gun.

In Mariupol 2S3 howitzers were used for fire support inside the city, destroying enemy strongpoints and hideouts.
Worked, but a better armored vehicle would be better.

GarryB wrote:They can't second guess... I rather suspect after a referendum takes place quite a few people will want an independent state, which is fine, they can be a buffer between the west and Russia. Not the lucrative position it might have otherwise been because I rather doubt there will be a lot of trade between Russia and the west.

I am not sure it can be an option anymore.

They will have referendums, but the local have to understand that being neutral is not possible anymore for them.

It has demonstrated that is not a country that can existing independently, so it is either a puppet of other countries or they can become integral regions of Russia.

Since they are not able to be a real independent state, if they do not want to reunite with Russia is for them to become a sort of Puerto Rico style protectorate, without any saying in foreign policy and without being allowed to have foreign investment.

Furthermore in such case Russia should make clear that it will also not invest anything, and foreign countries will not be allowed to do that either, so their quality of life will not be better than Puerto Rico or Haiti.

Again if even a part of former ukraine is allowed to exist as an independent country they will sooner or later create problems for Russia and Bielorussia and they will create also problems for trading with Hungary.

Prospects are dim for Russia. The best and brightest among Russians have fled. Thousands are pouring in into Finland and other parts of Europe.

RTN wrote:Prospects are dim for Ukraine. The best and brightest among Ukranians have fled. Thousands are pouring in into Finland and other parts of Europe.

You made couple of typos there, fixed them for you.