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Russian special military operation in Ukraine #36
Dr.Snufflebug- Posts : 1126
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- Post n°51
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #36
Dr.Snufflebug Wed Jan 11, 2023 10:42 pm
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More than 20 soldiers of the Russian Armed Forces who were considered missing in Ukraine were found alive
More than 20 Russian servicemen who were considered missing in Ukraine have been found alive. Some of them have already returned to Russia, the Commissioner for Human Rights in the Russian Federation Tatyana Moskalkova said on Wednesday, January 11.
"22 people were found, and some of them were returned home as a result of an exchange," she said at a trilateral meeting in Ankara with the participation of the ombudsmen of Ukraine and Turkey.
According to her, it was possible to find the missing soldiers thanks to cooperation with the Ukrainian Ombudsman Dmitry Lubinets. In this regard, Moskalkova noted the importance of such cooperation, adding that contacts on this line occur constantly.
"In November last year, during the exchange of prisoners, where Dmitry Lubinets and I were present,<...> we exchanged lists of missing persons and asked each other to provide assistance in the search, taking into account the capabilities of their mandate. And today I can say about the results that we have found a number of people who are still alive, " the Ombudsman said.
The Russian side also provided information about some of the missing Ukrainian servicemen in response to a request from Ukraine.
Earlier on Wednesday, Moskalkova said in her Telegram channel that on that day she had a meeting with the Commissioner for Human Rights of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine Dmitry Lubinets. The Ombudsmen discussed issues of providing humanitarian assistance to citizens of Russia and Ukraine. Moskalkova's message was supported by a photo of herself and Lubinets talking on opposite sides of a large table.
Prior to that, on January 2, Lubinets announced on the Rada TV channel that he intended to meet Tatyana Moskalkova to discuss the mutual return of civilians brought to criminal responsibility.
Tatiana Moskalkova takes part in the protection of the rights of Russian prisoners of war on the territory of Ukraine, in the exchange of prisoners and prisoners with the Ukrainian side.
Since February 24, Russia has been conducting a special operation to protect the Donbass, against the inhabitants of which Ukraine has been fighting since 2014. The decision to hold it was made against the background of the aggravation of the situation in the region due to the shelling of Ukrainian troops.
https://translated.turbopages.org/proxy_u/ru-en.en.8e5fccbd-63bf2eff-4008c464-74722d776562/https/iz.ru/1453126/2023-01-11/bolee-20-schitavshikhsia-propavshimi-na-ukraine-voennykh-vs-rf-naideny-zhivymi
More than 20 Russian servicemen who were considered missing in Ukraine have been found alive. Some of them have already returned to Russia, the Commissioner for Human Rights in the Russian Federation Tatyana Moskalkova said on Wednesday, January 11.
"22 people were found, and some of them were returned home as a result of an exchange," she said at a trilateral meeting in Ankara with the participation of the ombudsmen of Ukraine and Turkey.
According to her, it was possible to find the missing soldiers thanks to cooperation with the Ukrainian Ombudsman Dmitry Lubinets. In this regard, Moskalkova noted the importance of such cooperation, adding that contacts on this line occur constantly.
"In November last year, during the exchange of prisoners, where Dmitry Lubinets and I were present,<...> we exchanged lists of missing persons and asked each other to provide assistance in the search, taking into account the capabilities of their mandate. And today I can say about the results that we have found a number of people who are still alive, " the Ombudsman said.
The Russian side also provided information about some of the missing Ukrainian servicemen in response to a request from Ukraine.
Earlier on Wednesday, Moskalkova said in her Telegram channel that on that day she had a meeting with the Commissioner for Human Rights of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine Dmitry Lubinets. The Ombudsmen discussed issues of providing humanitarian assistance to citizens of Russia and Ukraine. Moskalkova's message was supported by a photo of herself and Lubinets talking on opposite sides of a large table.
Prior to that, on January 2, Lubinets announced on the Rada TV channel that he intended to meet Tatyana Moskalkova to discuss the mutual return of civilians brought to criminal responsibility.
Tatiana Moskalkova takes part in the protection of the rights of Russian prisoners of war on the territory of Ukraine, in the exchange of prisoners and prisoners with the Ukrainian side.
Since February 24, Russia has been conducting a special operation to protect the Donbass, against the inhabitants of which Ukraine has been fighting since 2014. The decision to hold it was made against the background of the aggravation of the situation in the region due to the shelling of Ukrainian troops.
https://translated.turbopages.org/proxy_u/ru-en.en.8e5fccbd-63bf2eff-4008c464-74722d776562/https/iz.ru/1453126/2023-01-11/bolee-20-schitavshikhsia-propavshimi-na-ukraine-voennykh-vs-rf-naideny-zhivymi
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JohninMK- Posts : 14808
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Sorry about the superfluous videos.
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Not a surprise, London sees it differently to Moscow.
No doubt on this as well. Wonder if Russian medics will get some praise?
ELINT News
@ELINTNews
·
2h
#BREAKING: Wagner Group head says 2 British men who went missing in Soledar in eastern Ukraine have been killed, shows their two passports. Says one body has been found and personal possessions of another found
Baron of the Taiga
@baronitaigas
·
2h
The other one, Chris Perry, is being treated for injuries.
No doubt on this as well. Wonder if Russian medics will get some praise?
ELINT News
@ELINTNews
·
2h
#BREAKING: Wagner Group head says 2 British men who went missing in Soledar in eastern Ukraine have been killed, shows their two passports. Says one body has been found and personal possessions of another found
Baron of the Taiga
@baronitaigas
·
2h
The other one, Chris Perry, is being treated for injuries.
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There's a famous Brazilian song whose title is: "Deceive me that I like it".
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The quote button has been removed because of some heated debates in the past. You need to quote manually.
The Quote button was removed because lazy people were repeating entire conversations over and over just to put a one line reply and after repeated warnings about it which would work for a day or two it kept happening again... doesn't happen now... problem solved.
Very ugly video. He killed them when they stoped fighting. It was a scary situation. The guy on the left wasn't even armed and they both looked like civilians and not trained military guys. He shouldn't have shot them. Very sad to watch.
There are other enemy around, he does not have time to discuss matters... hand over your gun and surrender... he asked twice and then shot them both... sad, but was he supposed to let them keep their weapons and chat about it?
It's not a war crime if you kill them in combat
Don't bother wasting time on giving them chance to surrender and that's that
Besides war crimes are non issue today, nobody gives a shit as long as you win
Modern history has demonstrated that war crimes lead to victory
On war against the rule and law loving west has warped your mind over what is right and wrong... you now conform to the might is right beliefs of America and the west... except when the might being wielded is not theirs of course... then it is not OK.
The Maidan regime is extremely unpopular in Ukraine, the people probably realize that the Maidan is not as good as they promised back then. But they cannot do anything as power is not in their hand.
Some probably went along with it for the promise that the west would help them and solve some of their problems... pretty clear what they wanted them for though... the only help they get is to kill Russians or die trying.
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JohninMK- Posts : 14808
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Keep up, that tank factory stuff was days ago. 
Meanwhile a bit of explosion porn for you all
Meanwhile a bit of explosion porn for you all
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Simulation of an M829A2 projectile (~750mm penetration) against the armor of a T-80U (produced in the 80's):
https://youtu.be/Bfo494lp_dE
Now imagine a Challenger 2 shooting an L28A1 projectile with 630mm of penetration (http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbwiki/index.php/Ammunition_Data) against the most modern and recent versions of T-72, T-80 and T-90.
So no, the Challenger is not going to destroy a Russian tank as easily as some people think.
https://youtu.be/Bfo494lp_dE
Now imagine a Challenger 2 shooting an L28A1 projectile with 630mm of penetration (http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbwiki/index.php/Ammunition_Data) against the most modern and recent versions of T-72, T-80 and T-90.
So no, the Challenger is not going to destroy a Russian tank as easily as some people think.
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https://globalnation.inquirer.net/209602/ukraine-govt-contacted-marcos-for-months-for-possible-ph-role-in-russia-conflict-but-no-response
Lol! not sure what kind of support the NAZIs are expecting from Ph
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Philippines?
Talk about going off topic
Who is next? Honduras?
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^ It is probably about trying to get the Philippines to take a partisan position. To help try and damage relations with China and Russia.
Anyway, an interesting comment on the Top War site about Grisimov basically taking the top job again and Serrovkin is deputy
From a propaganda and signaling standpoint, its not a bad move actually. Serovkin still basically runs the day to day ops. Hopefully the unpopular decisions are over for now. Serovkin took that heat pretty good.
Anyway, an interesting comment on the Top War site about Grisimov basically taking the top job again and Serrovkin is deputy
For unpopular decisions (Kherson) , a deputy is appointed chief. And for popular actions and victory, the boss himself is appointed. One thing is not clear, in the new position, what additional functions does the boss get, which he did not have before?
From a propaganda and signaling standpoint, its not a bad move actually. Serovkin still basically runs the day to day ops. Hopefully the unpopular decisions are over for now. Serovkin took that heat pretty good.
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How long does it take to train crews on Leopards and Challangers? MOnths? Years? My guess is that NATO is just sending these tanks to evaluate their performance against the Russian military. Hopefully the Russians destroy them in a manner that gives NATO no insight whatsoever. Heavy artillery, air strike etc.
They've probably been training Ukranians and Poles on these things for months already. Some will show up in the field fairly soon. It wont make much of a differnce but im just saying, nato and the US are never honest about what they are doing
SeigSoloyvov Today at 12:00 pm
Lawls, that shitty gun is more than ad
You can disagree with ppl on things without being a massive cvnt to them. Try it just once.
Last edited by Backman on Thu Jan 12, 2023 4:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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The yapping about western tanks is the same wunderwaffen drivel we have been hearing since day one. Even if NATzO sent over
1000 latest model tanks it would not do much. The only reason that Russia has not been using jets as much as it could has been
the Ukr air defense systems which are potent even if they are old. This situation is changing and a few Patriot systems is not going
to restore the capability the Kiev regime had at the start of the war. These NATzO tanks would not reach the Donbass-Zaporozhye
front in full numbers and would not last long if they did.
The Kiev regime army has been degraded to the point of no return (on any relevant time scale). The big action in Bakhmut and near it is
by PMC Wagner with some paratrooper backup. All the big "victories" by the Kiev regime forces in Kherson and Kharkov have been
Russian planned withdrawals. The current Kiev regime army is not able to use any number of western tanks effectively even it could
get them.
1000 latest model tanks it would not do much. The only reason that Russia has not been using jets as much as it could has been
the Ukr air defense systems which are potent even if they are old. This situation is changing and a few Patriot systems is not going
to restore the capability the Kiev regime had at the start of the war. These NATzO tanks would not reach the Donbass-Zaporozhye
front in full numbers and would not last long if they did.
The Kiev regime army has been degraded to the point of no return (on any relevant time scale). The big action in Bakhmut and near it is
by PMC Wagner with some paratrooper backup. All the big "victories" by the Kiev regime forces in Kherson and Kharkov have been
Russian planned withdrawals. The current Kiev regime army is not able to use any number of western tanks effectively even it could
get them.
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@KVS
I imagine there are a lot of frustrated people watching this, trying to understand how the best that US, UK, Canada and others trained (and even "volunteered") are getting defeated by mercenaries that undergone their own "basic" training with many of said volunteers being ex cons and what not. Russias airforce is providing air cover in sense of defeating enemy planes and launching some missile strikes, but the hard hitting are the artillery and the men themselves on the ground.
This will be a massive learning lesson to the West (doubt they will actively try to figure out where they went wrong though) and a massive victory for not just Russia but this PMC company as a whole since they were able to fight tooth and nail against a numerical superior enemy who had training done by the west. Gave them hell to the point they (Ukraine) had to move troops away from Kherson and Zap region just to try and make up for the men lost I'm Bhakmut.
I have to say, these mercenaries sure are effective.
I imagine there are a lot of frustrated people watching this, trying to understand how the best that US, UK, Canada and others trained (and even "volunteered") are getting defeated by mercenaries that undergone their own "basic" training with many of said volunteers being ex cons and what not. Russias airforce is providing air cover in sense of defeating enemy planes and launching some missile strikes, but the hard hitting are the artillery and the men themselves on the ground.
This will be a massive learning lesson to the West (doubt they will actively try to figure out where they went wrong though) and a massive victory for not just Russia but this PMC company as a whole since they were able to fight tooth and nail against a numerical superior enemy who had training done by the west. Gave them hell to the point they (Ukraine) had to move troops away from Kherson and Zap region just to try and make up for the men lost I'm Bhakmut.
I have to say, these mercenaries sure are effective.
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I don't want to dampen the mood. But here's another example of Russia respecting the rules of war too much.
Dr.Snufflebug- Posts : 1126
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- Post n°67
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #36
Dr.Snufflebug Thu Jan 12, 2023 5:52 am
So the Ukrainian "77th Airborne Assault Brigade" was formed in the UK in November, trained by British special forces in Devon, deployed to the theater in late December and was completely annihilated by mid-January.
Just wow. What was the point?
Just wow. What was the point?
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FP wrote:This should be investigated, but if it turns out he was in proper uniform/identification then he did nothing wrong ultimately. He demanded them to surrender but they wouldn't let go of their weapons.
Yes, the uniforms can be seen later in the video, Russian kit (looks like Ana or Mordor Tac)
Anyways, nothing to investigate. If you can't extract POWs - you shoot them. Only thing that would need to be investigated is why he shot another guy first instead of the one holding AK. Maybe he was afraid to get disarmed. Ukrainians did shoot up whole squad of soldiers who were disarmed because of one guy, that would fall into "needs to be investigated" category, but these events in the video happen hundreds of times per day, I don't think Wagner guys deal with POWs for obvious reasons too.
So the Ukrainian "77th Airborne Assault Brigade" was formed in the UK in November, trained by British special forces in Devon, deployed to the theater in late December and was completely annihilated by mid-January.
Just wow. What was the point?
Subpar training, objectives that were given not according to their capabilities, attrition. Many such cases. Only combat-worthy UAF brigades are dating to prewar, not surprisingly. Hence why they are being covered by human shields of low quality troops. But Bakhmut is bit different, plenty of pre-war manpower is being lost there. The real question, who will operate new western equipment?
mnztr wrote:How long does it take to train crews on Leopards and Challangers? MOnths? Years? My guess is that NATO is just sending these tanks to evaluate their performance against the Russian military. Hopefully the Russians destroy them in a manner that gives NATO no insight whatsoever. Heavy artillery, air strike etc.
Even this will give NATO insight. Ukrainians simply driving in behind the frontlines as well. Any shortcomings could be blamed on an untrained crew (and they would be right in some cases). I would be more worried about US squeezing their vassals in middle east and Africa and sending Soviet equipment to Ukraine on much larger scale than western donations. It seems NATO wants to prolong this war themselves.
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But what it really means, is west is preparing to go into Ukraine
I think after the talk about use of nuclear weapons it is pretty clear that Russia currently does not consider the use of nuclear weapons in the Ukraine because there is no target that would warrant such an extreme solution.
However a large force of HATO troops and equipment and vehicles entering Ukrainian territory is a HATO invasion and entry into the conflict, which would certainly justify the use of tactical nukes to stop and turn back.
If Russia seizes Ukraine it will result in the complete collapse of the NWO containing Russia.
I am not so sure, the NWO failed in Belarus and is not overly successful in Armenia and Georgia... neither of which are prepared to sacrifice themselves and their own interests to help the US like they are supposed to when you play for that team....
As for the gun and ammo, it will have no problem ripping apart a Russian tanks.
The HESH round they keep the rifled barrel for failed to defeat a BMP in Desert Storm... a British Warrior type.
So again how it was intended to be used its a good tank, putting it in Ukraine an environment it wasn't meant for yeah problem
They kept the rifled barrel so they could keep using HESH rounds which wouldn't be effective against any Soviet tanks from the T-64 onwards... they are deluded.
It takes gallons of fuel just to START an M1 tank, 20 liters!!! They have a MAAAASSSIVE fuel tank. Even the US military struggles to feed the beast. The Russian gas turbine tanks are no better. BTW it looks to me like some of the Russian SPGs have turbine APUs to power the autoload system. I guess they are much more compact and more quiet then diesel APUs and they can shut down the main engine when parked.
Gas turbines are good for generating electricity, but not great for moving big heavy vehicles that stop and start a lot.
In a tank every time you move you normally want to move at the fastest speed from a to b, which is terrible for a gas turbine in terms of fuel consumption.
For a power generation source a gas turbine is perfect... small and compact and when run at a fuel efficient rpm it can be very fuel efficient... they are commonly used on tanks and large vehicles and aircraft as auxiliary power supplies (APUs)... on a tank a tiny gas turbine will generate the electricity to run all the electronics and the heat it generates can heat the crew compartment too, as well as heat up and keep warm the main vehicle engine... whether that is a diesel on a T-72K or a T-80, which means even in the coldest temperatures the main engines can be started very quickly.
A tiny gas turbine engine uses a fraction of the fuel the main engine uses, whether it is a diesel or a gas turbine and has a smaller heat signature of the main engine so saving fuel and keeping warm, while keeping electronics and equipment going so you can keep the main gun stabilised and the gun pointed and the optics on ready to fire and ready to start the main engine and drive away immediately, but with enough fuel to keep warm and ready to go for a couple of days.
As the power demands for MBTs increases... more so with electric armour potential and of course EM weapons, a gas turbine becomes almost necessary for tank power supply, but by then the propulsion will be all electric so the gas turbine can be run at fuel efficient speeds without torque issues with stopping and starting, which will make it more fuel efficient than a diesel.
Wee way to go for that yet.
Philippines?
Talk about going off topic
Who is next? Honduras?
Remember Kiev is fighting to save the free world and democracy, so every country on the planet has to pay money to Kiev...
And give them weapons for free...
If you can't extract POWs - you shoot them.
They refused to surrender so they were not POWs, they were enemy combatants, and even unarmed enemy combatants are fair game...
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I don't want to dampen the mood. But here's another example of Russia respecting the rules of war too much. wrote:
I am glad they let it go. Poor fuckers I hope after the war their broken bodies heal. Young men are all stupid and get sucked into bullshit like this. Many are just dragged of the streets and sent there.
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mnztr- Posts : 2786
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Gas turbines are good for generating electricity, but not great for moving big heavy vehicles that stop and start a lot. In a tank every time you move you normally want to move at the fastest speed from a to b, which is terrible for a gas turbine in terms of fuel consumption. For a power generation source a gas turbine is perfect... small and compact and when run at a fuel efficient rpm it can be very fuel efficient... they are commonly used on tanks and large vehicles and aircraft as auxiliary power supplies (APUs)... on a tank a tiny gas turbine will generate the electricity to run all the electronics and the heat it generates can heat the crew compartment too, as well as heat up and keep warm the main vehicle engine... whether that is a diesel on a T-72K or a T-80, which means even in the coldest temperatures the main engines can be started very quickly. A tiny gas turbine engine uses a fraction of the fuel the main engine uses, whether it is a diesel or a gas turbine and has a smaller heat signature of the main engine so saving fuel and keeping warm, while keeping electronics and equipment going so you can keep the main gun stabilised and the gun pointed and the optics on ready to fire and ready to start the main engine and drive away immediately, but with enough fuel to keep warm and ready to go for a couple of days. As the power demands for MBTs increases... more so with electric armour potential and of course EM weapons, a gas turbine becomes almost necessary for tank power supply, but by then the propulsion will be all electric so the gas turbine can be run at fuel efficient speeds without torque issues with stopping and starting, which will make it more fuel efficient than a diesel. Wee way to go for that yet. wrote:
you will be amazed at how efficient EM guns are. If you look at EMALS as an example. It only requires about 40 KWh to launch a plane of the deck. If I were to buy that power at home thats like $5 of electricity to push a fully loaded et fighter up to 150 knots. Quite incredible really. So you can see how little power EM guns will use. They will likely be assisted by compressed air as well, cos why not. Hybrid tanks will be able to have smaller powerplants and battery storage will also double as structure and armor.
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I am glad they let it go. Poor fuckers I hope after the war their broken bodies heal. Young men are all stupid and get sucked into bullshit like this. Many are just dragged of the streets and sent there.
Well they kept a good watch on that vehicle... if it broke the rules... like delivering weapons and ammo or moving troops, then it would be fair game, but it didn't seem to do that so it is correct for them to respect it... even if the other side don't.
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Post Dr.Snufflebug Today at 5:52 am
So the Ukrainian "77th Airborne Assault Brigade" was formed in the UK in November, trained by British special forces in Devon, deployed to the theater in late December and was completely annihilated by mid-January.
Just wow. What was the point?
I told you that a while ago.
Propaganda materials made and covering the training in the UK presented a bunch of untrained troopers.
They were skilled for the most primitive tactics, and the parts where they were shown shooting clearly show lack of solid training. They couldn't hit the targets !!! and the machine gunner had a principal issue with recoil management ... and could hit shit either
I don't want to dampen the mood. But here's another example of Russia respecting the rules of war too much.
That depends on the perspective.
A KIA is a thing done. Cause no further issues.
WIA needs medevac, treatment, medicines. Consumes resources of all kinds.
From that perspective, letting them go with WIAs makes more harm than taking them out.
So the Ukrainian "77th Airborne Assault Brigade" was formed in the UK in November, trained by British special forces in Devon, deployed to the theater in late December and was completely annihilated by mid-January.
Just wow. What was the point?
I told you that a while ago.
Propaganda materials made and covering the training in the UK presented a bunch of untrained troopers.
They were skilled for the most primitive tactics, and the parts where they were shown shooting clearly show lack of solid training. They couldn't hit the targets !!! and the machine gunner had a principal issue with recoil management ... and could hit shit either
I don't want to dampen the mood. But here's another example of Russia respecting the rules of war too much.
That depends on the perspective.
A KIA is a thing done. Cause no further issues.
WIA needs medevac, treatment, medicines. Consumes resources of all kinds.
From that perspective, letting them go with WIAs makes more harm than taking them out.
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- Post n°74
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #36
Dr.Snufflebug Thu Jan 12, 2023 8:06 am
Apart from the fact that the Kubinka museum will get some new exhibits, what else do you guys think the Russians will do with the German steel donated to them?
Last time they turned it into the floors of a cathedral...
Last time they turned it into the floors of a cathedral...
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Them made crates of them if I remember
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