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Log inIf the challenger and leopards appear in the ukraine, will russian tank crews get issued refleks ATGMs and APFSDS rounds better than the 3BM42?
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73 posters
Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35
limb- Posts : 1550
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Arkanghelsk- Posts : 3670
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- Post n°927
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35
Arkanghelsk Tue Jan 10, 2023 4:08 pm
Marder and Bradley won't be engaged by a BMP crew, maybe some militia could run into such a scenario, and roll the dice in such an engagement
But most likely these will be demilitarized by kornet, metis, Lancet, t72, t62, t90, or artillery
Only a dumbass would fight an IFV with another IFV
You fight infantry with IFV, you fight IFV with tanks, you fight tanks with helicopters, and it goes on and on
Same with Leopards and Abrams tanks
Before sending tanks, helicopters and artillery should hunt those machines
Even entrenched infantry with ATGM would be better than using tanks
Unless the tank commander wants to risk losing tanks in an engagement he could have called a KA52 or MI28 to handle
But most likely these will be demilitarized by kornet, metis, Lancet, t72, t62, t90, or artillery
Only a dumbass would fight an IFV with another IFV
You fight infantry with IFV, you fight IFV with tanks, you fight tanks with helicopters, and it goes on and on
Same with Leopards and Abrams tanks
Before sending tanks, helicopters and artillery should hunt those machines
Even entrenched infantry with ATGM would be better than using tanks
Unless the tank commander wants to risk losing tanks in an engagement he could have called a KA52 or MI28 to handle
Last edited by Arkanghelsk on Tue Jan 10, 2023 4:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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limb- Posts : 1550
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I know that, but just in case theres no antitank or arty support.
Russianb armed forces coordination in eastern ukraine in one pic.
Russianb armed forces coordination in eastern ukraine in one pic.
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mnztr- Posts : 2788
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Marder and Bradley won't be engaged by a BMP crew, maybe some militia could run into such a scenario, and roll the dice in such an engagement But most likely these will be demilitarized by kornet, metis, Lancet, t72, t62, t90, or artillery Only a dumbass would fight an IFV with another IFV You fight infantry with IFV, you fight IFV with tanks, you fight tanks with helicopters, and it goes on and on wrote:
you don't always get to choose. The AUF have not many tanks so they will try and engage with anything they have. Its ok to also set up ambush with these vehicles. I think the Russian BMPs have an advantage in primary weapons, but I think the missiles are Bradlys 2 TOW missiles are always ready, while the BMP you have to load them. The 100mm or 37mm on the BMP can probably take out Bradly at pretty good ranges though. Ideally the Bradlys are taken out by tanks, drones helos etc,
limb- Posts : 1550
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Nope, the BMPs have objectively better ATGM loading mechanisms. On the BMP-2 and BMP-1P(Unfortunately russians almost always use the shitty unupgraded on or the ATGMless basurmanin) the ATGM is quickly reloaded from the top hatch without having to exit the vehicles. On te BMP-3 the autoloader loads the missile. On the marder and bradley after 2(bradley) and 1(marder) atgm are fired, the crew has to exit the vehicles to reload.
The advantage in the marder and bradley is the superior APFSDS ammo, superior armor and superior reverse speed at the cost of weight.
The advantage in the marder and bradley is the superior APFSDS ammo, superior armor and superior reverse speed at the cost of weight.
Arkanghelsk- Posts : 3670
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- Post n°931
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35
Arkanghelsk Tue Jan 10, 2023 4:45 pm
Looks like a new low altitude radar for MANPADS is being developed
Looks good, good system for drone detection and using MANPADS
Be good to take this with logistics groups that are not supported by SHORADS and can utilize Igla or Verba as a backup
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mnztr- Posts : 2788
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Nope, the BMPs have objectively better ATGM loading mechanisms. On the BMP-2 and BMP-1P(Unfortunately russians almost always use the shitty unupgraded on or the ATGMless basurmanin) the ATGM is quickly reloaded from the top hatch without having to exit the vehicles. On te BMP-3 the autoloader loads the missile. On the marder and bradley after 2(bradley) and 1(marder) atgm are fired, the crew has to exit the vehicles to reload. The advantage in the marder and bradley is the superior APFSDS ammo, superior armor and superior reverse speed at the cost of weight. wrote:
for a sustained battle maybe, but I think the way the Bradlys are set up is that the engagement with tanks or other IFVs would be unexpected, in that case, being the first to fire is critical. Of course with a tank, they can fire after you and still win if the distance is great enough.
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Chebureki Man:
It's not that Russia sucks at PR, it's that it no longer cares. The West has proven itself a backstabber, a fake friend to Russia, plotting it harm while smiling with gritted teeth. PR is pointless with venal Western leaders who only negotiate in bad faith for their own benefit.
It's not that Russia sucks at PR, it's that it no longer cares. The West has proven itself a backstabber, a fake friend to Russia, plotting it harm while smiling with gritted teeth. PR is pointless with venal Western leaders who only negotiate in bad faith for their own benefit.
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ALAMO
ALAMO- Posts : 6842
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Having 7 out of 8 bln people on it's side ... I would call that rather fine PR ...
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JohninMK- Posts : 14839
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Watch the little black dot change direction a few times before impacting.
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Arkanghelsk- Posts : 3670
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- Post n°936
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35
Arkanghelsk Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:40 pm
There's the north wind, and then there is the Alibaba express
No problems on that front
There goes the neighborhood
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Sujoy- Posts : 2314
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Ukrainian soldiers are being sent to the US so that they can be trained to use the Patriot system.
90-100 soldiers are needed to operate a solitary Patriot battery. Quite an inefficient system.
90-100 soldiers are needed to operate a solitary Patriot battery. Quite an inefficient system.
Ideally, Russia should engage them with heavy artillery from stand off range.the challenger and leopards appear in the ukraine, will russian tank crews get issued refleks ATGMs and APFSDS rounds better than the 3BM42?
diabetus- Posts : 402
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It's bizarre to see people refer to Bradleys as "BMPs" in English publications and posts when BMP means nothing in English and is just a translation of a Russian acronym.
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- Post n°939
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35
Walther von Oldenburg Tue Jan 10, 2023 7:25 pm
According to some reports, up to 300-400 enemy soldiers and officers could remain in the urban areas of Soledar, who did not have time to withdraw and fell into a boiler.
Broski- Posts : 668
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the challenger and leopards appear in the ukraine, will russian tank crews get issued refleks ATGMs and APFSDS rounds better than the 3BM42?
Krasnopol will do just fine, or helicopter ATGM's.Ideally, Russia should engage them with heavy artillery from stand off range.
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franco- Posts : 6734
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The press secretary of the President of Russia called the condition for the participation of conscripts in a special operation
Currently, conscripts are not sent to participate in a special military operation. Only contract soldiers and volunteers participate in the fighting. However, no one can deprive an adult citizen of Russia of the right to defend his homeland.
Moreover, it is quite natural that young people who are now serving in the army on conscription often want to go to participate in a special operation - to test their personal qualities, gain combat experience, and earn good money by Russian standards.
Any serviceman of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation (RF Armed Forces) who is on active duty on conscription may take part in a special military operation. However, for this he will have to sign a contract. This was stated to TASS by the press secretary of the President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin Dmitry Peskov.
To participate in the SVO, a conscript must make this decision voluntarily. To participate in a special operation, a conscripted serviceman must switch to contract service, that is, conclude a contract. Then the conscript will be able to go to participate in a special operation without any problems.
According to current legislation, to conclude a contract, you must serve in the army for at least three months. But there are exceptions: conscripts with a higher professional education can conclude a contract immediately after being called up for military service.
It should be noted that conscription for military service in Russia covers persons aged 18 to 27 years. Many young Russians are drafted into the army after graduating from higher educational institutions, that is, at the age of 22-23. Thus, a conscript may be even older than a contract soldier who served after school and signed a contract at the age of 19.
The upper age limit for concluding a contract for military service after the start of a special military operation has been removed. This opened up the possibility of signing a contract for many representatives of the older age groups who have experience of participating in hostilities in "hot spots".
https://topwar-ru.translate.goog/208350-press-sekretar-prezidenta-rossii-nazval-uslovie-uchastija-voennosluzhaschih-srochnoj-sluzhby-v-specoperacii.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en
Currently, conscripts are not sent to participate in a special military operation. Only contract soldiers and volunteers participate in the fighting. However, no one can deprive an adult citizen of Russia of the right to defend his homeland.
Moreover, it is quite natural that young people who are now serving in the army on conscription often want to go to participate in a special operation - to test their personal qualities, gain combat experience, and earn good money by Russian standards.
Any serviceman of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation (RF Armed Forces) who is on active duty on conscription may take part in a special military operation. However, for this he will have to sign a contract. This was stated to TASS by the press secretary of the President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin Dmitry Peskov.
To participate in the SVO, a conscript must make this decision voluntarily. To participate in a special operation, a conscripted serviceman must switch to contract service, that is, conclude a contract. Then the conscript will be able to go to participate in a special operation without any problems.
According to current legislation, to conclude a contract, you must serve in the army for at least three months. But there are exceptions: conscripts with a higher professional education can conclude a contract immediately after being called up for military service.
It should be noted that conscription for military service in Russia covers persons aged 18 to 27 years. Many young Russians are drafted into the army after graduating from higher educational institutions, that is, at the age of 22-23. Thus, a conscript may be even older than a contract soldier who served after school and signed a contract at the age of 19.
The upper age limit for concluding a contract for military service after the start of a special military operation has been removed. This opened up the possibility of signing a contract for many representatives of the older age groups who have experience of participating in hostilities in "hot spots".
https://topwar-ru.translate.goog/208350-press-sekretar-prezidenta-rossii-nazval-uslovie-uchastija-voennosluzhaschih-srochnoj-sluzhby-v-specoperacii.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en
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PapaDragon- Posts : 13312
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- Post n°942
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35
PapaDragon Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:08 pm
What does Russia need to take in order to kick Ukrainians out of artillery range of Donetsk?
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lancelot- Posts : 2720
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It depends really. Do you mean conventional artillery range, GMLRS range, or what? I would think they need to at least get them outside even the extended range artillery.
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The biggest weakness of Bradleys and Marders will be inexperienced crew, the same goes with tanks.
They will drop like flies from maintenance alone.
Both of these machines would face problems dealing with BMP-3 if the range is correct. In the close range - crew experience would be crucial. Think what would happen to IFV if 2a42 gun would open fire with HE from close range. It would leave it blind and would strip ATGM box and damage the gun. It's not Tiger tank in the Western Front.
ATGM-rich environment on both sides. Russians also have used Kornets externally mounted on their BTRs and they have technicals with it too. Anything without APS is not safe
BTR-82a
Ukrainian attacks on actual military targets? Otherwise, it seems the Russian army is not bothered. Also, it's hard to catch shoot and scoot artillery pieces. It's been 8 long years....
They will drop like flies from maintenance alone.
Both of these machines would face problems dealing with BMP-3 if the range is correct. In the close range - crew experience would be crucial. Think what would happen to IFV if 2a42 gun would open fire with HE from close range. It would leave it blind and would strip ATGM box and damage the gun. It's not Tiger tank in the Western Front.
ATGM-rich environment on both sides. Russians also have used Kornets externally mounted on their BTRs and they have technicals with it too. Anything without APS is not safe
BTR-82a
PapaDragon wrote:What does Russia need to take in order to kick Ukrainians out of artillery range of Donetsk?
Ukrainian attacks on actual military targets? Otherwise, it seems the Russian army is not bothered. Also, it's hard to catch shoot and scoot artillery pieces. It's been 8 long years....
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billybatts91- Posts : 663
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- Post n°945
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35
billybatts91 Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:43 pm
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limb- Posts : 1550
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He means what does it take to fully take maryinka, avdeevka, ugledar, etc in order to get donetsk out of range of artillery.It depends really. Do you mean conventional artillery range, GMLRS range, or what? I would think they need to at least get them outside even the extended range artillery.
ludovicense- Posts : 252
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- Post n°947
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35
ludovicense Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:54 pm
Levi
@Levi_godman
Now that Wagner will capture the salt mines we in Russia will finally have salt!
1 step closer to civilization.
• Ukrainian Washing machines
• Ukrainian Dishwashers
• Toilets from Kihiiieeeiieeev
................................
Jokes aside, these Wagner are now a terror for the Ukrainian army. The Chechens must be jealous...
@Levi_godman
Now that Wagner will capture the salt mines we in Russia will finally have salt!
1 step closer to civilization.
• Ukrainian Washing machines
• Ukrainian Dishwashers
• Toilets from Kihiiieeeiieeev
................................
Jokes aside, these Wagner are now a terror for the Ukrainian army. The Chechens must be jealous...
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- Post n°948
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35
Dr.Snufflebug Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:09 pm
So a couple of hundred Ukrainians and western mercs are trapped in a part of Soledar, the rest of the VSU has fled.
An ultimatum has reportedly been given: surrender by midnight or face thermobaric destruction.
An hour to go?
An ultimatum has reportedly been given: surrender by midnight or face thermobaric destruction.
An hour to go?
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- Post n°949
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35
Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:13 pm
Sprintero ވ
@Sprinter20000
Concrete blocks are being placed again on the streets of Kyiv.
@Sprinter20000
Concrete blocks are being placed again on the streets of Kyiv.
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Hole- Posts : 10841
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Battalions of the 3rd Motor Rifle Division of Russia added to the advance in the Kremennaya-Svatovo front.
Yesterday T-90M dismantled Ukrainian positions at short range, but today they just fled before the tanks had time to fire.
Yesterday T-90M dismantled Ukrainian positions at short range, but today they just fled before the tanks had time to fire.
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