Ukraine economy and society

Antonov has appealed to the international aviation community and all people concerned to join efforts to revive the legendary An-225 Mriya, the world’s largest cargo aircraft
The restoration of the aircraft will cost more than $3 billion and take time.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-society/3439020-antonov-suggests-intl-crowdfunding-effort-could-revive-mriya-giant.html

sundoesntrise wrote:

Firebird wrote:Has anyone here heard the bizarre sounding theory, the gist of which is below:-

"The Ukraine will be split up and the Nazis will die/leave... eventually But part of it will become a "new Israel".LOts of Jews will come back or just come from Israel. The claim is that shit will happen at some point in the Middle East, rendering Israel unsuitable.
Plus there are some oligarchs in Israel who have a lot of power eg Kolomoiski"

My view is that the whole thing sounds as weird as shit. BUT I heard it from 2 sources. One inside Russia, one from a Russian writer who lives in the USA (and hates it). I also saw some strange "Jews in Ukraine" channels appearing on Youtube.

I wonder if the US Deep State might be exploring such an idea. Of course they would like the idea of a manipulable state near Russia. One which is very connected to the US Deep State already. ANd of course Israel already has nukes.

I think it sounds a bit OTT. But I wonder where this rumour originated from? ANd what is the truth, if indeed any of it is?

Please share some of the videos here. I'd like to have a look myself.

Also on the topic of Khazaria, Zionism and the natural of Jewry a 1961 interview with Benjamin Freedman, former Jew and expert on Zionism. According to him there is quite a bit of truth to the Khazaria theory and the structuring of Khazaria as a second Jewish homeland would make sense.



Video doesn't work, link here

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jmM0wCpsUa4

The one source was a paid Patreon account of the Russian blogger, Ladaray.com

The one who talked about Jews in the Ukraine generally was a YT channel called Henry Abramson.
Abramson strikes me as an absolutely tosser. I didn't really watch his videos. Just caught some fairly antiRussian langugage. Basically I think greed for money/power/intellectual vanity blinds some of these people.
Its seriously fucked up the are Jews actually supporting Nazism - Kolomoiski, Zelensky (is he even Jewish?) and the rabid gang over in Washington.

The other source I had was an email from Russia.

PS Garry yes there is a Jewish autonomous oblast in the far east of Russia, a little east of the new cosmodrome.
A pretty quiet place as I understand.

d_taddei2 wrote:Antonov has appealed to the international aviation community and all people concerned to join efforts to revive the legendary An-225 Mriya, the world’s largest cargo aircraft
The restoration of the aircraft will cost more than $3 billion and take time.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-society/3439020-antonov-suggests-intl-crowdfunding-effort-could-revive-mriya-giant.html

I dread to think how many fuckwits might contribute to that... to get Azov and co more arms.
3 bn would be a whole manufacturer from scratch. (Which is what "Antonov" would need).

I doubt Russia would need much more than 275 or so million USD to do it.
Given that the 225 is basically a "cut and shut" An-124. Albeit with a lot of addons.

kvs wrote:

d_taddei2 wrote:Antonov has appealed to the international aviation community and all people concerned to join efforts to revive the legendary An-225 Mriya, the world’s largest cargo aircraft
The restoration of the aircraft will cost more than $3 billion and take time.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-society/3439020-antonov-suggests-intl-crowdfunding-effort-could-revive-mriya-giant.html

This smells of a grift.

It comes with a Nigerian prince, some Florida wetlands, and a bridge in Brooklyn.

I dread to think how many fuckwits might contribute to that... to get Azov and co more arms.
3 bn would be a whole manufacturer from scratch. (Which is what "Antonov" would need).

Arseholes fleecing idiots... a fool and his money are soon parted... whether it is claims to rebuild a plane when they don't control the factories it was built in... perhaps the 3 billion includes building factories too... or, more likely the money disappears and is never seen again and they wont return your calls or your money...

I doubt Russia would need much more than 275 or so million USD to do it.
Given that the 225 is basically a "cut and shut" An-124. Albeit with a lot of addons.

It was a purpose built aircraft specifically designed to haul around over sized objects on its back for the Soviet space industry... if the Russians don't want it then there is no point in building it... it costs 50% more to fly than the An-124 does because it has 6 engines instead of 4, which are not amazingly reliable.

The aircraft the Russians use is a bomber from the Myasishchev design bureau, which only has a payload capacity of 15 tons but that is plenty for fuel tanks and rocket motors inside fairings carried on its back.

The An-225 would allow a fully fuelled and loaded Buran to be carried within its 250 ton payload capacity, and I did read somewhere it was used to carry the Buran up to altitude for glide tests with jet engines fitted to the Buran to allow go arounds if needed...

No Buran means no need for An-225, though future plans for future shuttle and space craft design might made a modified H tail version of Slon worth while.

I do not know if this is the proper thread, so feel free to move it if not appropriate...

I was trying to get some info on the defunct black sea shipyard in Nikolaev and I remembered that a few years ago the company Nibulon basically destroyed one of the most important parts of the shipyard (either the slipway or the drydock where the aircraft carriers were built) to install there a grain terminal. (You can see it from Google maps)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibulon

Apparently the man responsible for it, Oleksiy Vadatursky, owner of Nibulon, has been killed on the 31st of July during a russian missile strike on Nikolaev.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62367356

Space shuttles are a waste of money in general, though Buran was a better product than the STS, but its fate was decided by other factors.

Cheapo URM + some reusable (Space X-y) future derivative for a scalable LV is the way to go. And exploration. Put stuff on other planets again, publish cool photos and new scientific discoveries.

RU/USSR hasn't really done anything mega cool since the Venus landers and balloons. It's all been NASA, ESA and recently, China, that has captured the imagination of the world. Stuff like that is good ass PR both home and abroad.

I do not know if this is the proper thread, so feel free to move it if not appropriate...

I was trying to get some info on the defunct black sea shipyard in Nikolaev and I remembered that a few years ago the company Nibulon basically destroyed one of the most important parts of the shipyard (either the slipway or the drydock where the aircraft carriers were built) to install there a grain terminal. (You can see it from Google maps)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibulon

Apparently the man responsible for it, Oleksiy Vadatursky, owner of Nibulon, has been killed on the 31st of July during a russian missile strike on Nikolaev.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62367356

Here some additional info (already posted in the Ukrainian navy thread a few years ago)

https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2674842.html
Phantom pains: Ukraine remembers the glory of Nikolaev shipbuilding
July 28th, 2019

However, the problem is not only in the bankruptcy of the plant. According to Larisa Shesler, the hero of Ukraine, grain trader and great patriot Aleksey Vadatursky seriously had a hand in the destruction of ChSY.

“Thanks to the construction of the Nibulon terminal, owned by Alexei Vadatursky, the wall of the Black Sea Shipbuilding Plant was cut. ChSZ had the longest wall for the construction of large ships, several hundred meters long. The Vadatursky grain receiving terminal was built exactly in the middle of this wall and, in fact, forever deprived ChSZ of the opportunity to even start thinking about building ships. Perhaps the fact that Alexander Vadatursky was allowed to become one of the largest grain traders in the west was connected precisely with the destruction of this wall, ”says Shesler.

Perhaps the fact that Alexander Vadatursky was allowed to become one of the largest grain traders in the west was connected precisely with the destruction of this wall, ”says Shesler.

That was almost certainly the deal he made with the devil.

Regarding shuttles the concept was awful, and the US shuttle was the worst implementation of the concept you could possibly imagine.

The Soviet model was much smarter because it was a glider sitting on a rocket that got it into space... you could put a fairing on the back of the Soviet rocket and put a 120 ton payload there for launching into orbit, so it was very flexible.

The US shuttle was more like taking a C-130 and filling the entire payload capacity as well as external wing pylons with excess fuel... so much so that it needs two enormous very expensive solid rockets to get the thing moving.

The US shuttle cost more than 10 times more than the Soviet Soyuz rocket for delivering new crew and returning the existing crew and the Soyuz was disposable.

These are the real details the US cares about, this is not just a chance to damage Russia, it is also an economic war... the Ukraine has descended into becoming a third world country which gives the US the green light to pillage and steal and so most of their economy to date has likely been western companies buying up land and resources they can exploit over the next decade or two... except the ones having fun pushing Russias buttons pushed too hard.

The titanium will still be in the ground and so will gas and coal and other resources and once all the explosives and shrapnel is removed those fertile fields will still produce crops... perhaps Russia should threaten to drop chemicals on the fields to kill all the healthy bacteria and make them barren... the west would go apeshit if the Russians threatened to do to Ukrainian fields what the US and her allies of the time did to Vietnams jungles...

I wonder about this.

Russia more than doubled it's GDP since 1999. Why did Ukraine fail to do the same thing? All of that despite having the most fertile soil in the world and inheriting a giant industrial base from the USSR?

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:I wonder about this.

Russia more than doubled it's GDP since 1999. Why did Ukraine fail to do the same thing? All of that despite having the most fertile soil in the world and inheriting a giant industrial base from the USSR?

In 1991 Russia and most of the former Soviet republics including Ukraine began "economic liberalization" and a "free market" economy. Basically what these meant was that the former Soviet states embraced the unchecked oligarchy and unbridled capitalism of the sort not seen since the American gilded age of the 1880s and 90s. Oh it was a free economy if you could afford it. Wanted a woman, a man, or even s child in the biblical sense? As long as you had the money you could. Wanted a factory or who industry? If you had the money it was yours. Some other oligarch cutting into your cash flow? If you had money he is fkoating in a river. All the former Soviet states went through this. The corruption became so endemic that business could not get done and the army could not get paid and the government could not function. This, fwiw, was by design. America and Europe saw the fUSSR as a vast resevoir of raw materials, women and men and children to be prostituted (oh believe me Epstein is the trace amount of snow on the tip of that iceberg), and educated slave labor to be fully exploited.

Putin is hated in the garden and the "free world" because he stopped the fire sale. After 1999 no longer could you almost buy a Russian nuclear submarine to smuggle drugs. Terrorists could no longer come dangerously close to obtaining fissible material. The brain hemmorhaging stopped. The sex trafficking stopped. The economic colonization and cultural colonization stopped. The corruption was reigned in. The army got a pay check, government could function again, the economy recovered. Now corruption and oligarchs remained but they lost their clout. Lots of them fled to the west and began a very vocal- in the west- anti Putin campaign.

Russia got Putin, Belarus got Luka, the stans reverted to command economies to stop the bleeding. Ukraine? Well, they weren't so lucky. Putin stopped the shit show in Russia after a decade. Ukraine has been experiencing an imported economic collapse and sell off for 30+ years.

Dead right, and sadly the fire sale has continued to this day with western aid coming at a cost that wont be written off or forgotten... I am looking forward to the intellectual somersaults the west will perform to prove that if Russia takes control of what is left and supplies security guarantees (ie maintains control of what is left) then the west will demand payment for all those rich soil fields owned by Monsanto and other big western companies... despite trying to pollute said fields with DU ammo and land mines...

Putin did what China did essentially... you can be rich or you can be involved in politics but you can't do both... which are basic rules for any democracy to work, yet are never mentioned in the west because that would betray the fact that they are not really democracies at all.

Ukraine is a failure for the same reason nazi Germany was a failure... you can rally a whole country if you can identify their problem that is a minority or foreign power... the US does it all the time... and they change the problem... one week it is Russia and the next it is China... it gets ridiculous when it is Venezuela or Iraq or Afghanistan because these countries are not threat to the US at all, but the western public are used to being told who the bad guys are and have developed an automatic response... by all means spend billions of my tax money and eliminate that clear and present threat to my life.

Hitler said it was jews and commies and Russians that was holding back Germans from being the world leaders they should be...

It was easy for the west to go into the Ukraine and tell them all their problems come from the terrible deal they get from Russia... Poland could be the model, but any eastern european state could give them their talking points.

As soon as you dismiss all words from the chosen enemy as being propaganda you stop listening... even when they say makes sense.

Putin said that Ukraine in HATO was not acceptable to Russia and now we can see why with evidence they were going to ignore the Minsk agreements and take the rebelling parts of their country back by force... the western media claimed Russia was helping the rebels and sending them money and weapons and even troops... which is fucking hilarious because that is what the west is essentially doing right now, but remember it is OK when the west does things, but neutral countries are not even allowed to trade with Russia without getting accused of supplying weapons to Russia... which it seems is the ultimate sin.

Ukraine is gone and will not be coming back... Zelensky might mount his 300K man offensive and lose 250K and gain a few kilometres in territory here and there and then get pushed back beyond where they started from, and he will do that just so he can enter peace talks by saying we pushed you back if you don't agree to our terms we wont stop till we get to Moscow.

Because he is a monkey trained in the west... every negotiation the west talks about going in to they talk about leverage and strengths they will have so instead of a discussion they can make demands and ultimatums... which is what they think are negotiations and talks... but Russia is sick of that now and wont take that shit any more and the west is going to find fewer and fewer countries are going to take it either.

The current crop of western leaders are .