Talking bollocks thread #3

Arrow wrote:The keel for these ships was supposed to be yesterday.There is no information

You do know that there is a lock down and quarantine now due to pandemic you abject moron?

Nobody will be doing anything until it clears out.

PapaDragon wrote:

Arrow wrote:The keel for these ships was supposed to be yesterday.There is no information

Nobody will be doing anything until it clears out.

Which is never. Do you think there will ever be a time when there will be 0 case of coronavirus in Russia?

A lock down cannot continue forever... at some point they are going to have to loosen controls and start getting back to normal...

Suggesting they will remain in lockdown forever is absurd.

GarryB wrote:A lock down cannot continue forever... at some point they are going to have to loosen controls and start getting back to normal...

Suggesting they will remain in lockdown forever is absurd.

This is China made lab virus. The lockdown continues as long as Russia documents a case. China uses the opportunity to build 10 aircraft carriers and leave America in the dust.

Certainly not forever but certainly many years. Don't believe the vaccine hype. This is a coronavirus strain. Coronaviruses have no vaccine.

While Russia is shut down, China launched the seventh Type 055 heavy destroyer which is like 3 times the size as an Admiral Gorshkov / Type 054A frigate.

https://twitter.com/dafengcao/status/1255473007377756162

PapaDragon wrote:
COVID19 tread is now is nothing but Vann and Tsavo sucking each other off with their conspiracy spam walls and mods don't even give a shit

I've been wanting to post news about pandemic for several days now but it's pointless to waste effort on that digital rectum

I have to say
you have a nice way with words

Anyway it's offtopic but it doesn't really matter how many cases Russia has, or whether its publishing the death figures according to the same methodology used in Europe and the States

Because the whole world's fucked and everyone's shipbuilding and military priorities will be drawn down accordingly

China won't escape. They've done a good job containing the crisis but it doesn't matter. Because China is the world's factory. What happens though when the world stops providing orders for it?

China went from a projected 6.5% growth in Q1 to a contraction of 6.5%
That's effectively more than 13% lost in total, probably closer to 14-15% as a 6.5% growth is quite a bit larger than a 6.5% contraction.

If that happened to China; which ordered very strict quarantines but localized ones, then one can only imagine the coming figures for the US and EU. It will be an absolute disaster.

Russia will hardly escape either. It has had a less stringent lock-down (outside Moscow anyway), and I can see that some shops are still open and a lot of the restaraunts/coffee stands/etc... are as well, they've just put their sitting space off-limits and operate according to takeaways only.
But the pandemic is still developing, and even walking down the street today from the job I was just laid-off from which I visited to hand over my work computer and sign termination documents, I could already see the familiar shop I passed by stripped, closed and with a 'for rent' sign. Wonder on which takers they're counting on.

The people I know that worked in bars, coffee shops, etc... all out of work. A lot of the migrants and seasonal workers - out of work. Walking around the neighbourhood in general I see a lot more seedy types than I did before. Nothing has happened yet that I've seen but I already sense that discomfort, of criminality in the air; where before there was simply none and it felt entirely safe. These warning-sign instincts have evolved in us over hundreds of thousands of years, and they don't fire up for no reason. I try to leave my phone at home when I go out for a walk now. I don't care about getting into a fight, but I do like my phone and there's a lot of stuff on it - it would kill me to see it broken or nipped off in the tussle.
A couple weeks ago I was walking around the centre with a girl I know. Not too many people on the streets, and the ones that were were either immigrants, bums or people coming up to me and asking for cigarettes. Don't see the police much anywhere, wonder what they're up to.

The coming months will be the real shock, in Russia and the rest of the world. The repurcusions need time to be felt, but when they will it will be the insurance firms in trouble, then the banks, people rushing to withdraw savings or transfer them into different currencies. Businesses that have so far kept afloat and operating will find that their costs are outweighing their profits and will close down too. A new wave in criminality. The construction sector will seize up, as demand drops like a stone for new living and office space, everyone hedges their bets and avoids investing their savings. Businesses and even larger corporations will face higher rates for loans, will get in trouble because of that. The biggest companies will survive, but will be continiously introducing reductions-in-force and laying off personnel.

The service sector is completely screwed. They will be the worst-hit, but they're also just the first ones hit - other sectors will follow even if not quite as severely. Production will survive for some time, but ultimately it won't escape the economic downturn and the reduction in orders that will induce over the next half a year, and will be laying off staff just the same. And with the drawing down of the production sector comes the turn of the extraction sector. Coal, metals, raw materials of all kinds - demand will plummet and they'll also fire personnel. We've seen a taste of that with the oil industry; but the rest of them are merely waiting their inevitable turn.

It's hard to know when the reckoning will be during this year. But it's most likely coming, the march of events has taken on a life of its own and is beyond statesmen's or central banks' capacity to bring under control. A world government might have been able to handle that, but we don't have one and instead all countries economic polices are going to follow their own interests exclusively at the expense of the wider situation.
And that reckoning is the bursting of the US financial bubble and the dollar's dominance. When this happens every country's economy, China's included, will face yet another massive hit as world trade, finance, stocks, investments are all upturned.

And the scenario I have described is pretty much how it would happen, even if the coronavirus went away tommorow and everyone exited lockdown the day after that. If it continues to gain ground and overload medical systems, forcing countries to extend lockdowns, the world will end even worse.

The important factor is economic resilience. In the USA there are millions of people actually losing their jobs and not going on
unpaid vacation. By contrast, in Russia here is a vastly smaller scale of such job loss. So even if the GDP contracts for a few
months, that is not a fundamental contraction but a Covid-19 shock transient. Just like the late 2014 early 2015 inflation spike
in Russia disappeared by the end of March 2015. Totally.

It can be expected that the recovery in Russia will be rapid. In the USA it is hard to tell because it appears a lot of business
will need to rebuild capital and rehire a workforce. As demonstrated by the 2008 recession, it is probably that the joblessness
in the USA will not go down for many years. This sort of catabolic downsizing is excessive in the USA and rather tame in
Russia.

kvs wrote:The important factor is economic resilience.   In the USA there are millions of people actually losing their jobs and not going on
unpaid vacation.   By contrast, in Russia here is a vastly smaller scale of such job loss.   So even if the GDP contracts for a few
months, that is not a fundamental contraction but a Covid-19 shock transient.   Just like the late 2014 early 2015 inflation spike
in Russia disappeared by the end of March 2015.   Totally.    

It can be expected that the recovery in Russia will be rapid.   In the USA it is hard to tell because it appears a lot of business
will need to rebuild capital and rehire a workforce.   As demonstrated by the 2008 recession, it is probably that the joblessness
in the USA will not go down for many years.    This sort of catabolic downsizing is excessive in the USA and rather tame in
Russia.

Yes! Complete correct! Structures in Russia will not change, people will stay in job and if some companies will struggle the administration can help them. And Russia benefits from a strong domestic market, they don't have to open borders and can restart with production fully. The funds of Russia can help to stimulate the economy. Corona is a blessing for russian oil industry, because murican fracking industry is dead and russian companies can take their market share in the next few years.

Second best position is...EU. Doesn't look like, because the nations of EU have many dead people from Corona, but most jobs are saved, due to high social security standards. Negative point are the high debts that will overrun the EU zone. Another negative point is the hysteric bullshit from tranatlantic fanbois swapping over EU..."Russia is using the help for countries as a kind of hybrid weapon", "China will pay for Corona"...bla bla. This is the cry of cold warriors from USA that can be heard clear and loud in Europe.

Losers are China and USA. Why China? Because their market is dead, they can't export now to their customers as before...they have a high debt... After Corona many western companies will relocate the production back to their home countries. China is definitely not a winner of Corona. And USA is completely shattered, the fracking industry is dead for many years....USA can't escape the debt anymore. USA is not complete dead now, but the neoliberal idea of domination is over. Of course USA will recover and it's a strong and rich country, but I think a lot of Americans are pissed off by their system too...spending billions for weapons to fight wars far away from USA and letting own people live in poverty. This can lead to a better change or to a fightback of the neoliberal system, that would be dangerous.

Okay enough off topic from me now!

flamming_python wrote:Anyway it's offtopic but it doesn't really matter how many cases Russia has, or whether its publishing the death figures according to the same methodology used in Europe and the States

Because the whole world's fucked and everyone's shipbuilding and military priorities will be drawn down accordingly

China won't escape. They've done a good job containing the crisis but it doesn't matter. Because China is the world's factory. What happens though when the world stops providing orders for it?

China went from a projected 6.5% growth in Q1 to a contraction of 6.5%
That's effectively more than 13% lost in total, probably closer to 14-15% as a 6.5% growth is quite a bit larger than a 6.5% contraction.

If that happened to China; which ordered very strict quarantines but localized ones, then one can only imagine the coming figures for the US and EU. It will be an absolute disaster.

Russia will hardly escape either. It has had a less stringent lock-down (outside Moscow anyway), and I can see that some shops are still open and a lot of the restaraunts/coffee stands/etc... are as well, they've just put their sitting space off-limits and operate according to takeaways only.
But the pandemic is still developing, and even walking down the street today from the job I was just laid-off from which I visited to hand over my work computer and sign termination documents, I could already see the familiar shop I passed by stripped, closed and with a 'for rent' sign. Wonder on which takers they're counting on.

The people I know that worked in bars, coffee shops, etc... all out of work. A lot of the migrants and seasonal workers - out of work. Walking around the neighbourhood in general I see a lot more seedy types than I did before. Nothing has happened yet that I've seen but I already sense that discomfort, of criminality in the air; where before there was simply none and it felt entirely safe. These warning-sign instincts have evolved in us over hundreds of thousands of years, and they don't fire up for no reason. I try to leave my phone at home when I go out for a walk now. I don't care about getting into a fight, but I do like my phone and there's a lot of stuff on it - it would kill me to see it broken or nipped off in the tussle.
A couple weeks ago I was walking around the centre with a girl I know. Not too many people on the streets, and the ones that were were either immigrants, bums or people coming up to me and asking for cigarettes. Don't see the police much anywhere, wonder what they're up to.

The coming months will be the real shock, in Russia and the rest of the world. The repurcusions need time to be felt, but when they will it will be the insurance firms in trouble, then the banks, people rushing to withdraw savings or transfer them into different currencies. Businesses that have so far kept afloat and operating will find that their costs are outweighing their profits and will close down too. A new wave in criminality. The construction sector will seize up, as demand drops like a stone for new living and office space, everyone hedges their bets and avoids investing their savings. Businesses and even larger corporations will face higher rates for loans, will get in trouble because of that. The biggest companies will survive, but will be continiously introducing reductions-in-force and laying off personnel.

The service sector is completely screwed. They will be the worst-hit, but they're also just the first ones hit - other sectors will follow even if not quite as severely. Production will survive for some time, but ultimately it won't escape the economic downturn and the reduction in orders that will induce over the next half a year, and will be laying off staff just the same. And with the drawing down of the production sector comes the turn of the extraction sector. Coal, metals, raw materials of all kinds - demand will plummet and they'll also fire personnel. We've seen a taste of that with the oil industry; but the rest of them are merely waiting their inevitable turn.

It's hard to know when the reckoning will be during this year. But it's most likely coming, the march of events has taken on a life of its own and is beyond statesmen's or central banks' capacity to bring under control. A world government might have been able to handle that, but we don't have one and instead all countries economic polices are going to follow their own interests exclusively at the expense of the wider situation.
And that reckoning is the bursting of the US financial bubble and the dollar's dominance. When this happens every country's economy, China's included, will face yet another massive hit as world trade, finance, stocks, investments are all upturned.

And the scenario I have described is pretty much how it would happen, even if the coronavirus went away tommorow and everyone exited lockdown the day after that. If it continues to gain ground and overload medical systems, forcing countries to extend lockdowns, the world will end even worse.

Chinese don't give a damn about a stupid virus. There are virus every day for as long as humanity has been around. Who the fuck cares? Chinese just launched second Type 075 light aircraft carrier, seventh Type 055 heavy destroyer. No one builds anything now except Chinese. No one will build anything for years to come. Only Chinese will build ship after ship after ship, a new ship every few months. This is China. I'm Chinese. YOU do not understand CHINA. There's a reason it's called the Middle Kingdom.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Type 075's are LHD's, they will not carry planes so you can hardly call them light carriers. About 30 Choppers and unless you are hunting for submarines, Helios in the blue water are useless.

Type 075 carries VTOL drones like these https://www.flightglobal.com/civil-uavs/textron-demonstrates-vtol-aerosonde-as-it-snags-us-army-shadow-contract/120471.article

Carrying 30 planes like these makes it a light carrier or even a medium carrier.

ultimatewarrior wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Type 075's are LHD's, they will not carry planes so you can hardly call them light carriers. About 30 Choppers and unless you are hunting for submarines, Helios in the blue water are useless.

Type 075 carries VTOL drones like these https://www.flightglobal.com/civil-uavs/textron-demonstrates-vtol-aerosonde-as-it-snags-us-army-shadow-contract/120471.article

Carrying 30 planes like these makes it a light carrier or even a medium carrier.

The PLAN doesn't have any VTOLS nor does to have any VTOL Drones. Nor does it have a large fighter like drone or VTOL drones of the same type.

You are spreading misinformation don't do that.

Perhaps in the future, China will develop some but that time isn't now.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

ultimatewarrior wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Type 075's are LHD's, they will not carry planes so you can hardly call them light carriers. About 30 Choppers and unless you are hunting for submarines, Helios in the blue water are useless.

Type 075 carries VTOL drones like these https://www.flightglobal.com/civil-uavs/textron-demonstrates-vtol-aerosonde-as-it-snags-us-army-shadow-contract/120471.article

Carrying 30 planes like these makes it a light carrier or even a medium carrier.

The PLAN doesn't have any VTOLS nor does to have any VTOL Drones. Nor does it have a large fighter like drone or VTOL drones of the same type.

You are spreading misinformation don't do that.

Perhaps in the future, China will develop some but that time isn't now.

China is the world leader in drones. It's pretty easy to make VTOL drones. They require less service on the decks due to no jet heat burning the decks. Also, future war is all about counter terror. There is no more direct war between super powers. Drones are best suited for counter terror.

owais.usmani wrote:https://flotprom.ru/2020/%D0%92%D0%BC%D1%8435/

Quarantine measures caused by the spread of coronavirus infection forced the Russian Navy to postpone the laying of four ships and two submarines from the end of April for an indefinite period. About this Mil.Press FlotProm told a high-ranking source in the industry.

According to him, another possible bookmark term, May 9, is being worked out. The opening ceremony for shipbuilders, military sailors, guests of honor and journalists depends on the situation with the coronavirus. “Technically, both the fleet and the shipyards are ready for laying, however, most likely, it will be postponed for a more epidemiological time,” the source said.
On April 28, they planned to lay down six new units for the fleet at once: two frigates of project 22350 at the Severnaya Verf shipyard in St. Petersburg, two multipurpose nuclear submarines of project 855M at Sevmash in Severodvinsk, and two universal landing ships at the Zaliv plant in Crimea.

The official representative of the Russian Navy, Captain I Rank Igor Dygalo, found it difficult to answer the question of Mil.Press FlotProm about the timing of the laying of ships and submarines.

At the Severnaya Verf shipyard, the publication was informed that it could not comment on this information.

Not gonna happen. Russia is shut down. Russia is not like China. Zuk zuk zuk. Another carrier. China to launch third heavy aircraft carrier in October.

I doubt they will recklessly threaten the lives of their workers to keep to your time table...

If you have any evidence that Chinese ship building has not been effected by this Pandemic would be interested in reading about how they achieved a lockdown and work as normal at the same time... that would be quite a trick... but I don't want to read that here as it is off topic here.

If you find it put it on a Chinese thread.

ultimatewarrior wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

ultimatewarrior wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Type 075's are LHD's, they will not carry planes so you can hardly call them light carriers. About 30 Choppers and unless you are hunting for submarines, Helios in the blue water are useless.

Type 075 carries VTOL drones like these https://www.flightglobal.com/civil-uavs/textron-demonstrates-vtol-aerosonde-as-it-snags-us-army-shadow-contract/120471.article

Carrying 30 planes like these makes it a light carrier or even a medium carrier.

The PLAN doesn't have any VTOLS nor does to have any VTOL Drones. Nor does it have a large fighter like drone or VTOL drones of the same type.

You are spreading misinformation don't do that.

Perhaps in the future, China will develop some but that time isn't now.

China is the world leader in drones. It's pretty easy to make VTOL drones. They require less service on the decks due to no jet heat burning the decks. Also, future war is all about counter terror. There is no more direct war between super powers. Drones are best suited for counter terror.

No the US makes the best drones currently. China isn't even in the top five.

China has launched one homemade carrier the Shandong, the first carrier was bought from Ukraine mostly complete so you can't say they made it, sure they finished it.

China is building two more CV but those aren't slated to be done until 2023 and mid 20's and then they need to be outfitted and go through the steps for commission.

Example Shandong was launched in 2017 but only commissioned in 2019, so it will be 2025 at least before china commissions another carrier.

You love posting BS information, don't you.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

ultimatewarrior wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

ultimatewarrior wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Type 075's are LHD's, they will not carry planes so you can hardly call them light carriers. About 30 Choppers and unless you are hunting for submarines, Helios in the blue water are useless.

Type 075 carries VTOL drones like these https://www.flightglobal.com/civil-uavs/textron-demonstrates-vtol-aerosonde-as-it-snags-us-army-shadow-contract/120471.article

Carrying 30 planes like these makes it a light carrier or even a medium carrier.

The PLAN doesn't have any VTOLS nor does to have any VTOL Drones. Nor does it have a large fighter like drone or VTOL drones of the same type.

You are spreading misinformation don't do that.

Perhaps in the future, China will develop some but that time isn't now.

China is the world leader in drones. It's pretty easy to make VTOL drones. They require less service on the decks due to no jet heat burning the decks. Also, future war is all about counter terror. There is no more direct war between super powers. Drones are best suited for counter terror.

No the US makes the best drones currently. China isn't even in the top five.

China makes more drones than any other country. Hell, more than 95 percent of the drones in the world are made in China. China has VTOL drones like these





Not only that, Chinese drones are controlled by head movement. I don't see any other country has that.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:China has launched one homemade carrier the Shandong, the first carrier was bought from Ukraine mostly complete so you can't say they made it, sure they finished it.

China is building two more CV but those aren't slated to be done until 2023 and mid 20's and then they need to be outfitted and go through the steps for commission.

Example Shandong was launched in 2017 but only commissioned in 2019, so it will be 2025 at least before china commissions another carrier.

You love posting BS information, don't you.

Meantime the US is reducing its heavy carriers from 11 to 9. By the mid 2020s the US will only have twice as many carriers as China has.

The US Congress may not allow this reduction, so it's not a done deal.
Even if 2 CVNs r decommissioned, they could be recommissioned later if need be. 1-2 more could also be forward deployed in Hawaii, Guam or Australia, increasing their utility as each is worth 2-3 CVNs based in the US.

Can mods delete off-topic trash?

None of this has anything to do with Russian LHDs

Tsavo Lion wrote:The US Congress may not allow this reduction, so it's not a done deal.
Even if 2 CVNs r decommissioned, they could be recommissioned later if need be. 1-2 more could also be forward deployed in Hawaii, Guam  or Australia, increasing their utility as each is worth 2-3 CVNs based in the US.

They have no choice. The US economy is weakening and lack of funds will shuttle some ships. Especially when Democrats inevitably take back the White House.

True, but China will be prevented from getting any foothold in Greenland & the US will have unrestricted access to resources & use of the island to monitor the Arctic.
They may even put BMD sites there like in Alaska.

You mean ABM? Cause they already do with thaad. Regardless if it's shit.

After a few years of having lots of Americans there I am sure Chinese investment in Greenland will seem rather more attractive... I mean the Chinese are not angels and they don't do it for charity, but they wont strip mine the place like the Americans would... they will build schools and hospitals and nice roads and ports...

GarryB wrote:they will build schools and hospitals and nice roads and ports...

You sound like a Chinese troll.

China encourages dependency using opaque contracts, predatory loan practices, and corrupt deals that mire nations in debt and undercut their sovereignty, denying them their long-term, self-sustaining growth. China offers cheap infrastructure loans, with the sting of default coming if smaller economies can’t generate enough free cash to pay their interest down.

Kenya, Tajikistan, Sri Lanka, Tanzania and several African, Asian countries have had their strategic assets, such as their resources, mineral deposits, port access rights, and the like, targeted by Chinese creditors as collateral in many of these predatory deals.