Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #10

GarryB wrote:

Yeah, not impressive at all.

I am glad two dumb bombs does not impress you... the US spends billions of dollars dropping enormously expensive bombs with perhaps not much greater accuracy... now that really is impressive... the way a Rolls Royce towing a plow is impressive....

higurashihougi wrote:

GarryB wrote:

Yeah, not impressive at all.

I am glad two dumb bombs does not impress you... the US spends billions of dollars dropping enormously expensive bombs with perhaps not much greater accuracy... now that really is impressive... the way a Rolls Royce towing a plow is impressive....

Dumb bombs but with excellent ballistic computer (in the aircraft) still manage to do something impressive, like what happened when Russia Su-xx managed to hit the rebels' ammo storage and command posts.

Dumb bombs also means people can invest more money and weight into explosives instead of expensive electronic devices, which significantly increase the bomb power and cut costs.

Just my 2 cent

KoTeMoRe wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:

d_taddei2 wrote:we've seen and heard of Su-33 carrying out bombing missions, but nothing of the Mig-29K doing any bombing, or any Ka-52K attacking targets in Latakia, any news i have missed? or anyone know of anything on this?

I bet after ditching that Fulcrum in the Med they grounded them all.

Why?

ethnologue.com wrote:SYRIA LANGUAGES

Adyghe
[ady] As Suwayda’ Governorate, Salkhad district; equal-sized area, Dara’a Governorate, Dar’a district. 35,000 in Syria (2014 J. Leclerc). Status: 5 (Dispersed). Alternate Names: Adygey, Circassian, West Circassian. Classification: North Caucasian, West Caucasian, Circassian. Comments: Non-indigenous. Muslim.
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Arabic, Levantine Bedawi Spoken
[avl] Southwest corner, As Suwayda’ and Dara’a governorates, Hawran region, from the border to within 35 km of Damascus. 98,000 in Syria (2014 J. Leclerc). Status: 6a (Vigorous). Alternate Names: Bedawi. Classification: Afro-Asiatic, Semitic, Central, South, Arabic. Comments: Non-indigenous. Muslim, Christian.
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Arabic, Mesopotamian Spoken
[acm] East, mainly Halab and Ar Raqqah governorates, with Buhayrat al Asad reservoir at center; into Dayr az Zawr Governorate, along the Euphrates; central strip in Hims Governorate; into (east) Idlib and (west) Hamah governorates. 68,000 in Syria (2014 J. Leclerc). Status: 6a (Vigorous). Alternate Names: ’Arabi, Furati, Mesopotamian Gelet Arabic, North Syrian Arabic. Dialects: Euphrates Cluster. Classification: Afro-Asiatic, Semitic, Central, South, Arabic. Comments: Muslim, Christian, Jewish.
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Arabic, Najdi Spoken
[ars] Widespread; eastern Syrian desert. 1,690,000 in Syria (2014 J. Leclerc). Status: 6a (Vigorous). Alternate Names: Bedawi. Classification: Afro-Asiatic, Semitic, Central, South, Arabic.
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Arabic, North Levantine Spoken
[apc] Western Syria, Mediterranean coast; widespread. 18,800,000 in Syria (2014 J. Leclerc). Total users in all countries: 25,871,950. Status: 3 (Wider communication). De facto national working language. Alternate Names: Lebanese-Syrian Arabic, Levantine Arabic, North Levantine Arabic, Syro-Lebanese Arabic. Dialects: There is an urban standard dialect based on Damascus speech. Beiruti dialect well accepted. Aleppo dialect shows Mesopotamian (North Syrian) influence. A member of macrolanguage Arabic [ara]. Classification: Afro-Asiatic, Semitic, Central, South, Arabic. Comments: Druze, Christian, Jewish, Muslim.
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Arabic, North Mesopotamian Spoken
[ayp] Far east, Al Hasakah Governorate, from capital city towards northern border with Turkey. 300,000 in Syria (1992). Status: 6a (Vigorous). Alternate Names: Mesopotamian Qeltu Arabic, Moslawi, Syro-Mesopotamian Arabic. Dialects: Mardini Aramaic (Abdul-Massih, Jesrawi, Mardilli, Mardini). Classification: Afro-Asiatic, Semitic, Central, South, Arabic. Comments: Muslim, Christian.
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Arabic, Standard
[arb] Widespread. Status: 1 (National). Statutory national language (1973, Constitution, Article 4). Classification: Afro-Asiatic, Semitic, Central, South, Arabic. Comments: Non-indigenous.
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Armenian
[hye] Enclaves near rivers, urban centers, Dayr az Zawr and Al Hasakah governorates. 83,000 in Syria (2014 J. Leclerc). Status: 5 (Dispersed). Alternate Names: Armjanski, Ermenice, Haieren, Somkhuri. Dialects: Western Armenian. Classification: Indo-European, Armenian. Comments: Non-indigenous. Christian.
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Assyrian Neo-Aramaic
[aii] North, Al Hasakah Governorate, Khabur river banks, Turkey border, over 30 villages; some also in governorate capital. 227,000 in Syria (2014 J. Leclerc). Ethnic population: 700,000. Status: 6b (Threatened). Alternate Names: Aisorski, Assyrian, Assyriski, Lishana Aturaya, Neo-Syriac, Suret, Sureth, Suryaya Swadaya. Classification: Afro-Asiatic, Semitic, Central, Aramaic, Eastern, Central, Northeastern. Comments: Non-indigenous.
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Azerbaijani, South
[azb] Hims and Hamah governorates, isolate central enclaves in both. 44,000 in Syria (2014 J. Leclerc). Status: 5 (Dispersed). Alternate Names: Azeri, Turkmen, Turkomen. Classification: Turkic, Southern, Azerbaijani. Comments: Non-indigenous. Not written in Syria. Muslim.
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Domari
[rmt] Ar Raqqah Governorate; scattered nomadic groups; north, western rural areas; Kurbat dialect: Syria and western Iran. 10 in Syria (2015). Ethnic population: 37,000 (2005). Status: 8b (Nearly extinct). Alternate Names: Barake, Dom, Gypsy, Kurbat, Middle Eastern Romani, Nawar, Tsigene. Dialects: Nawar, Kurbati, Beirut, Nablos, Barake. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Indo-Aryan, Intermediate Divisions, Western, Dom. Comments: Non-indigenous. Arabic influence. Muslim.
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Kabardian
[kbd] Dimashq Governorate; Damascus, Aleppo, possibly other cities. 39,000 in Syria (2005 Circassian Association). Status: 6b (Threatened). Classification: North Caucasian, West Caucasian, Circassian. Comments: Non-indigenous. Muslim.
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Kurdish, Northern
[kmr] Al Hasakah Governorate, area on border northwest of Al Hasakah city; Halab Governorate, north of reservoir along Euphrates; Ar Raqqah Governorate, area surrounding capital; other possible locales: northern Cizire (Qamishlok), Kurd-Dagh (Ciyayê Kurdî, Afrin), Ain-Arab; Allepo, Damascus. 1,900,000 in Syria (2014 J. Leclerc). Status: 5 (Dispersed). Alternate Names: Kurdi, Kurmancî, Kurmanji. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Iranian, Western, Northwestern, Kurdish. Comments: Muslim, Yezidi.
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Lomavren
[rmi] Al Hasakah Governorate. Status: 6b (Threatened). Alternate Names: Armenian Bosha, Arnebuab Bisa, Bosa, Bosha. Classification: Mixed language, Armenian-Romani. Comments: Non-indigenous.
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Mlahsö
[lhs] Al Hasakah Governorate, Qamishli town. No known L1 speakers. The last speaker died in 1998. Status: 10 (Extinct). Alternate Names: Suryoyo. Dialects: None known. Reportedly similar to Turoyo [tru]. Classification: Afro-Asiatic, Semitic, Central, Aramaic, Eastern, Central, Northwestern. Comments: A different language from Turoyo [tru], also called Suryoyo.
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Turoyo
[tru] Far northeast corner, Al Hasakah Governorate, Tigris river near Cizre. 32,000 in Syria (2014 J. Leclerc). Ethnic population: 20,000 (1994). Status: 7 (Shifting). Alternate Names: Surayt, Suryoyo, Syryoyo, Turani. Classification: Afro-Asiatic, Semitic, Central, Aramaic, Eastern, Central, Northwestern. Comments: Religious capital is Damascus; formerly at Tur ’Abdin, Turkey. Christian.
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Western Neo-Aramaic
[amw] Rif Dimashq Governorate, Al-Qutayfah district; Qalamoun mountains, 50 km north of Damascus, Ma’lula, Bakh’a, and Jubb ’Adin villages. 24,000 (2014 J. Leclerc). Status: 7 (Shifting). Alternate Names: Loghtha Siryanoytha, Maalula, Neo-Western Aramaic, Siryon. Dialects: Ma’lula (Maaloula, Maalula, Ma’lu:la), Bakh’a (Bax’a), Jub-’adin (Jubb ’Adi:n). Little dialect variation. Classification: Afro-Asiatic, Semitic, Central, Aramaic, Western. Comments: Christian.
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OminousSpudd wrote:I'd say they'll escalate the payloads slowly. Those Su-33s can carry a fairly hefty amount of virgin express stamps.
A2A:


Although T/W ratio obviously makes huge difference in this case.

KiloGolf wrote:

OminousSpudd wrote:I'd say they'll escalate the payloads slowly. Those Su-33s can carry a fairly hefty amount of virgin express stamps.
A2A:


Although T/W ratio obviously makes huge difference in this case.

Well yeah, the Flanker is a beast and a beautiful at that Maybe they play safe by attaching only two bombs yet, maybe they take their time or maybe STOBAR limits them to just that. But having said that I would love to hear what maximum A2G load-out can the Su-33 carry (i.e. iron bombs) with minimal fuel, both wingtip ECM pods and 2 AAMs so it can safely launch from the long line. Chances are nobody will answer that, apart from solid footage.

Militarov wrote:Biggest load i have ever seen it with actually taking off was 2xR-73, 4xR-27, 2xFAB-500 (or some other bombs i am not really sure). And it was from some mid 90s documentary movie that certain guy BitnikGR uploaded on Youtube and was later banned... his videos were great source... But it was probably filled with fumes compared to its full fuel cappacity.

PapaDragon wrote:

Will you numbnuts kindly take this aircraft payload nonsense back to Kuznetsov tread AKA The Butthurt Tread of RDN?

This tread is about war, not about tech details for ship that will be in dry dock for several years after this deployment!

Nobody cares about that OT crap!!!

JohninMK wrote:Quite a flight plan. QRA all along the route. Rather than take the short cut, RuAF showing NATO what they can do again.

Mil Radar ‏@MIL_Radar 10h10 hours ago

QRA 16 NOV: The group of 8 RUAF aircraft consisted of 3x Tu-95MS, 3x IL-78 Midas and 2x unspecified interceptor/fighter aircraft

If a plane of the size of the Su-33 can't launch, refuel and strike with at least x4 FAB 500s there's a problem for the Russian Navy.

GarryB wrote:

If a plane of the size of the Su-33 can't launch, refuel and strike with at least x4 FAB 500s there's a problem for the Russian Navy.

You are not getting it.

The Su-33 is impressive because it is doing with two dumb 500kg bombs what a Hornet needs expensive guided bombs to do.

It only carries two bombs because it is training and testing... if you want 20 tons of dumb bombs to level a large area then send in the Tu-22M3... if you want 12 tons of bombs on target send the Su-34.

eehnie wrote:With the Su-25, the Tu-95 is one of the aircrafts which use in this campaign can be bigger. Its use is very logical.

JohninMK wrote:

eehnie wrote:With the Su-25, the Tu-95 is one of the aircrafts which use in this campaign can be bigger. Its use is very logical.

As I understand it the Su-25s went home many months ago when the force was reduced in size. So their use atm is nill, which as you say is a pity but the RuAF clearly don't want to lose any against MANPADs and seem to prefer to use helicopters.

JohninMK wrote:

GarryB wrote:

If a plane of the size of the Su-33 can't launch, refuel and strike with at least x4 FAB 500s there's a problem for the Russian Navy.

You are not getting it.

The Su-33 is impressive because it is doing with two dumb 500kg bombs what a Hornet needs expensive guided bombs to do.

It only carries two bombs because it is training and testing... if you want 20 tons of dumb bombs to level a large area then send in the Tu-22M3... if you want 12 tons of bombs on target send the Su-34.

Plus, as you keep saying Garry, bombing land targets is way down the list of RuN requirements for the K, it is a fleet air defence ship, primarily protecting subs as I understand it. They are doing this for 'fun' so the Navy flyers do not feel left out of the action.

Moscow. 18 Nov. INTERFAX.RU - the Russian defense Ministry equips your facility in the Syrian port of Tartus ships, boats and technical equipment necessary for the creation of a full-fledged naval base (VMB), said on Friday "Interfax" a source familiar with the situation.

"Without waiting for documentation of raising the status of Russian facility in Syria's Tartus from the point of logistics to the naval base, Russia nourishes it with the necessary auxiliary vessels, boats and equipment," - said the Agency interlocutor.

According to him, "the previous day through the Straits in a South-westerly direction proceeded, the sea tug MB-31 black sea fleet floating crane SPK-46150".

A few days earlier specialized Turkish media reported passing through the Straits to the Russian ships of the auxiliary fleet (in particular, KIL-158), on Board of which were several boats anti-sabotage defense of the "Raptor". Messages accompanied by photos.

On 10 October the state Secretary - Deputy defense Minister Nikolai Pankov said that the preparation of documents, allowing to establish a permanent naval base in the Syrian Tartus.

In a period when the Russian facility in Tartus had the status of the item logistics of the Russian Navy, there on a permanent basis was on duty one of the two floating workshops of the black sea fleet.

Patrol boat of project 03160 "Raptor" built at a shipyard "Pella" by order of the Russian Navy. In particular, three of them - P-275 P-276 P-281 - joined the squad anti-sabotage forces and means of the Novorossiysk naval base.

calm wrote:What?
https://www.rt.com/news/367323-lavrov-kerry-apec-lima/
Russian bombers are striking terrorist targets in Syria’s Idlib and Homs provinces so that Islamic State militants retreating from Iraq’s Mosul do not cross into Syria, Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said after “constructive” talks with his US counterpart, John Kerry.