Syrian Civil War: News

Maybe I should think more about it... As for now I don't see any other solution to Islamist problem...

By the way - many people here think that USA and Gulf Arab countries are in some kind of evil alliance. That's far from being true. Americans don't trust Saudis or Qataris and Arabs hate Americans almost as much as Iran. When US Army occupied Iraq, Saudi Arabia & Co tried to backstab them by supporting various Sunni militias such as ISI. Same with Pakistan. I wouldn't expect such a treachery from any European country.

The problem with Syria is that outside of some middle and higher class neighborhoods in major cities (Damascus, Aleppo,  Hama, Homs, Idlib) people are highly cnservative and suspicious towards the regime. It's hard to say whom they support the most.

Note that in Arab countries. where Islam is a state religion and sharia a state law. experienced almost no civil unrest during so called "Arab Spring". With the exception of Bahrain - and that's because it's a Shia majority country ruled by a Sunni minority (as opposed to Syria which hass a Sunni majority ruled by a religious minority).

Maybe I should think more about it... As for now I don't see any other solution to Islamist problem... wrote:

You don't see any other solution but more war?

This FSA terrorists are mercenaries, they will leave Syria as soon their checks aren't signed anymore, but that won't happen since NATO wants Syria under its own umbrella.

Cut off supplies to Free Saudian Army and this rats will leave immidiatley and Syria is safe. Those who maybe would stay which is unlikely would be vaporized within weeks.

But yes of course our beloved West is great and has only the poor Syrian civilians in mind to take care of their bad bad regime, they just fund and supply Al-CIAda because this are not enemies, but are good friends since they are a brench of CIA interior forces, but always are there where USA want to have forces,war or resources.

Hundred Thousands of Terror groups, criminal organisations all over the world and especially concentrated in Asia and Africa but USA follows only the Al-CIAda and only in countries with big profits for USA in terms of resources, geopolitical positioning and benefits for Israel regional power to either corrupting entire regimes like they did with Saudi Arabia,Kuwait,Qatar,Jordan and kinda Pakistan or to invade and destroy them when they change their minds like Iran after Shah Reeza was thrown out of charge by Iranians and Saddam the best friend of USA during that time was ordered to wage a war against Iran to since they couldn't corrupt the current administration at those times and then after Saddam wanted Gold for Oil and not the weak dollar, he was the bad guy, invaded US oil supply in Kuwait so he was "retired" lies over lies about non existent nuclear weapons, about non existent genocide of babies which "were took out of the incubators" and such bullshit stories. And nothing was found nothing of this lies could be proven.

And you think the beloved west gives even one fuck about Syrian people or even their own people?

You are just lying to yourself.

Werewol wrote:This FSA terrorists are mercenaries, they will leave Syria as soon their checks aren't signed anymore, but that won't happen since NATO wants Syria under its own umbrella.

You don't need to pay FSA mercenaries money to keep them flowing in. European Jihadists come with money already, they are recruited OPENLY in Mosques or through Facebook groups. Only thing that fuels them is a Holly war. They are so delusional that they think they are fighting against Israel, USA, Russia or what ever suits them, but not Syrian people. They think they are the good guys and killing a Shia is their goal. Al Nusra is not fighting for the money too, their goal is to establish Caliphate, gain grounds and power. Kurds fight for different reasons than money too. And please stop talking about NATO. You clearly know what is orchestrating this war and it's definitely not an military organisation(it can only used as a tool)

And you think the beloved west gives even one fuck about Syrian people or even their own people?

Same as Russia. We are talking about geo politics of big powers. It's not a secret that pragmatism is the new game after Cold War. There is no Good/Bad guy when it comes in slicing and dicing world. And common, call it real name - it's USA not the West - You are from Germany Yourself, Your country has no say in these matters. USA is a World police, but it's one corrupt cop for sure.

As Sa'iqa wrote:Maybe I should think more about it... As for now I don't see any other solution to Islamist problem...

Well, as You've mentioned people who wage war against other sovereign country should be considered person non grata by state they are from. I don't want to live in Europe full of people that go to war on holidays. This is first that needs to be done.

The problem with Syria is that outside of some middle and higher class neighborhoods in major cities (Damascus, Aleppo, Hama, Homs, Idlib) people are highly cnservative and suspicious towards the regime. It's hard to say whom they support the most.

Well as far as I understand, FSA has elements that really don't help populace to fully support them. Like when FSA went on marauding spree or when started impose their own rules. They might be suspicious towards regime, but there is not much to choose from and sometimes it's better to be neutral because retributions by both sides for support of their opponents are not wanted. It seems that people just want to move with their lives and not fight for neither side.

Right. The more islamists embrace martyrdom there, the better.

It's relative. Better for what, Poland? Or Syria?
For Syria it would be the best to have ceasefire as soon as possible and try to solve everything peacefully rather than annihilation, but it's only possible if the war will drag for couple years and both sides would be too exhausted to fight.

People here seem to forget that Arab social organization is totally different from that of the West. Arabs aren't organized along national identify but along tribal and religious affiliations. So eg. a Sunni Syrian may feel more affinity towards an Afghan Sunni than towards a Syrian Christian.

There is nothing strange or extraordinary about it - that's the way they're reared since childhood. And it has great influence oevr politics as well - even though Libyan civil war is often described as either war of Libyan people against a ruthless dictator (by media) or as a war of Libyan people against NATO-funded criminals and mercenaries (by people like Werewolf), in fact it was a power struggle between pro-Gaddafi tribes from Tripolitania and anti-Gaddafi tribes from Cyrenaica.

It's same with Syria. I got a question to all people who think that all Syrians stay firmly against rebels - why are the most elite units of Syrian army (republican guard and 4th armored division) made exclusively of people from Alawi background and why are they the only units allowed to enter Damascus? A ruler loved by all would not be afraid of letting people from a majority group serve in the best units. Instead he only lets people from his religious minority serve.

Regular wrote:You don't need to pay FSA mercenaries money to keep them flowing in

Right. Just go to any English language Sunni Islamic forum and read threads about Syria. 90% of people there are convinced that this is the war of liberation, of glorious mujahideen against an infidel and a bloody dictator. For them Alawis and Shias aren't even Muslims but munafiqs - the worst unbelievers possible, people who pretend they are Muslims but in reality they are not (they ofter refer to Assad as "Bashar Al Kalb" which means "Bashar the Dog" and call Hezbollah Hizbulshaitaan which means "Party of Satan").

You are stating a what is already been discussed to the bare bone. Minority rule over majority has to have loyal troops by their side. Look what happened at the beginning of conflict when these turncoats started joining FSA. But what makes them even more despicable that they failed to take control of rebellion and gave it away to foreign organisations.
Not all Syrians are against rebels of course, but You have to admit that support is not extensive as Western media tries to depict. In the end of the day this conflict has ethnic side to it too. Some feel grievance, some hate Alawi so much.
But You are not counting people who are neutral to both sides. Trying not to get directly in the conflict. Be it educated people, professionals, people who admire life and family more than death in this grinder. You can call them cowards, but guess who drives these cars in the middle of shoot outs between FSA and SAA T-72.
SAA actions(or might I say paramilitary actions?) are not hearth warming, FSA with core of multinational Salafists who hardly represent what is the best for Syrian people might not be roses and chocolate too. You can understand Shias being worried that if Assad falls they will be wiped out. Well maybe Sunnis think same way about if FSA falls then it's end for them. It's easy to paint everything white and black, both sides think they are good guys, I bet even Al Nusra thinks they are angels.
Assad regime might not be the one I would like to live, but we all know what happen after Sectarian government is toppled.

Wanna say more about Islamism - the only way to stop the funding of Islamic extremism is to stop buying oil from Gulf countries, which is hard for two reasons. First - that oil must be replaced with something else, secondly - only half of Gulf oil goes to us, the rest goes to countries like China.

The only way to this is to convince countries like Canada and Venezuela to maximize their oil production so that the price of oil goes down drastically. This would bring Gulf monarchies down due to lack of other sources of income.
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Back to Syria.

Quite an interesting situation. Assad forces killed 49 rebels in one ambush in Adra town in Rif Dimashq while the rebels fought back by expelling regime forces from Khan Asal in Aleppo where the army suffered a defeat with probably more than a dozen dead soldier (including a brigadier general) and several captured.

Rebels are returning under Syrian rule and laying down weapons outraged by terrorist supported by western countries and middle east kingdoms

Syria: disillusioned rebels drift back to take Assad amnesty

You don't see any other solution but more war?

No need to be so hard on him... it is the standard western response.

Despite all their high morals and standards... they really don't care about anyone but themselves and the price of petrol and their standard of living.

If they can cultivate a conflict on the other side of the world between groups they see as enemies (ie Assad and Al Quada) then they will jump at the chance to foment it and keep it going because as long as it is going the local press will be able to say things are not great here but at least it is not as bad as there, and also it means the real radicals that might otherwise be bombing London or the US will think that for the moment the west is helping them by supporting them and will not bite the hand that feeds.

Of course when it is over they will turn on the west... and the west knows that so the west will not help too much... the conflict will distract two enemies and protect the voting public while the real cost of the war will be paid for in oil revenues which means oil production which means the cost of oil will stay low.

The west has learned nothing and continues to support 12th century radicals over if not 21st Century moderates at least 20th century moderates like Assad.

They just ignore the pain and death and suffering that is created with such conflicts... I would think after the US civil war the US would be more sensitive to such situations and do all it can to prevent such pointless and wasteful situations... but when it is not their troops on the ground they could not care less.

GarryB wrote:Despite all their high morals and standards... they really don't care about anyone but themselves and the price of petrol and their standard of living.

Anyway, one may not like one side or the other but I would bet with my head that if Russia was allied with Saudi Arabia and other Gulf countries, then media like RT would portray rebels as glorious liberators and Assad as a ruthless dictator. Politics is politics, it knows evry little morality and is the same everywhere.

GarryB wrote:Of course when it is over they will turn on the west... and the west knows that so the west will not help too much...

Then we will just incite a fight between them. Middle East is extremely divided. There is mutual hatred between Sunni Muslims and Shia Muslims. Within the Sunni camp there is rivalry between Saudi Arabia on one side and Turkey-Qatar on another. If Gulf Arab countries grow too strong and too eager to "conquer" the West, then causing a war between Al Qaeda and Muslim Brotherhood would be enough to keep Islamists busy for many years - remember that understanding even the very basics of geopolitical strategy is beyond the intellectual capability of most Islamists.

If that fails, we can start supporting Iran and playing it against Arabs - at the same time making sure that Iran doesn't grow too strong either.

GarryB wrote:The west has learned nothing and continues to support 12th century radicals over if not 21st Century moderates at least 20th century moderates like Assad.

Having 12th century radicals in power means that the Arab World will never catch up with us in terms of economic development and scientific potential. - and that it will remain dependent on us forever. This is beneficial.
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Dead SAA soldiers (graphic).
A truly disastrous defeat. According to some sources SAA lost even 500(!) soldiers and militiamen in Khan Asal. The verified number is at leasr 150, including two army general. At least 51 were executed after the battle.

Anyway, one may not like one side or the other but I would bet with my head that if Russia was allied with Saudi Arabia and other Gulf countries, then media like RT would portray rebels as glorious liberators and Assad as a ruthless dictator. Politics is politics, it knows evry little morality and is the same everywhere.

To a degree you are right... but unlike western media the Russian media rarely goes out of its way to demonise its opponents.
RT does portray Assad as the legal head of state in Syria and the opposition as terrorists, but it does not portray Saudi Arabia as the dictatorship that it is.

Western media happily demonise Iran but for decades now women in Iran have had the right to vote... will they ever get that right in Saudi Arabia or Kuwaite?

You are quite right that one mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist but it is US media that primes the western view of things and it is very polarised by who cooperates and supports the western world model and who does not.

Saudi Arabia is the home and birth place of Al Quada but remains off the sht list because the Saudi Royal family are western puppets that control oil. If either of those changed... ie an arab spring or the oil ran out and the west would drop them like a hot rock... the way they will drop Pakistan after the main western forces have withdrawn from Afghanistan.

If that fails, we can start supporting Iran and playing it against Arabs - at the same time making sure that Iran doesn't grow too strong either.

Iran would never trust the west. They don't trust Russia either for that matter... but if you look at history it is pretty obvious why.

Having 12th century radicals in power means that the Arab World will never catch up with us in terms of economic development and scientific potential. - and that it will remain dependent on us forever. This is beneficial.

But the white mans western theory of evolution has US democracy at its peak and any human civilisation will grow towards that perfection as it develops. Lots of ego centric BS if you ask me of course but that is the belief.

GarryB wrote:Iran would never trust the west. They don't trust Russia either for that matter... but if you look at history it is pretty obvious why.

What kind of allies does Iran have? Such that don't have choice and such that can be easily replaced with USA.

There is no geopolitical conflict between Iran and the West, only an ideological one.

GarryB wrote:But the white mans western theory of evolution has US democracy at its peak and any human civilisation will grow towards that perfection as it develops

You wrongly assume that every human culture has the same potential which is not the case.

As an example - why are East Asian peoples good at copying someone else's inventions but not at inventing something new by themselves? That's because their culture is based on Confucianism - which encourages social conformism and suppresses individualism.  

The same can be said of other ideologies. Islam as a religion basically limits a society's ability to develop to zero. It's no wonder that the only Islamic countries that can be considered developed (Turkey and Malaysia) lie on the frontier of Islam and model themselves after other civilizations (Turkey - after West, Malaysia - after China).

What kind of allies does Iran have? Such that don't have choice and such that can be easily replaced with USA.

Not a question of what allies does it have... more a question of who it wants and it really does not want the US as an ally again.

You wrongly assume that every human culture has the same potential which is not the case.

Every human culture learns by copying... it makes no sense to reinvent a replacement for the wheel when developing a new plane...

As an example - why are East Asian peoples good at copying someone else's inventions but not at inventing something new by themselves? That's because their culture is based on Confucianism - which encourages social conformism and suppresses individualism.

Cultures change... and the invention of gunpowder and the printing press is plenty to be starting with anyway.

The same can be said of other ideologies. Islam as a religion basically limits a society's ability to develop to zero. It's no wonder that the only Islamic countries that can be considered developed (Turkey and Malaysia) lie on the frontier of Islam and model themselves after other civilizations (Turkey - after West, Malaysia - after China).

Western white culture didn't develop in a vacuum... western culture comes from the world it has stolen wealth from for centuries and is an amalgamation of the worlds cultures anyway.

Science is not art... if one person was stopped from inventing something that doesn't mean the world would have to live without it... it will be invented by someone else soon enough if it hasn't already.

GarryB wrote:Cultures change... and the invention of gunpowder and the printing press is plenty to be starting with anyway.

Even though they were invented in China, they didn't led to a revolution. Gunpowder was invented in China but musket and cannon were invented in Europe, not in China or Sengoku era Japan. Same with printing.

GarryB wrote:Western white culture didn't develop in a vacuum... western culture comes from the world it has stolen wealth from for centuries and is an amalgamation of the worlds cultures anyway.

This is a myth. Europe was already the most developed by 15th century - before any "exploitation" started.

Anyway, Islamic world had been exploiting other peoples and stealing their wealth far more harshly (Muhammad himself said that God had made Muslims heirs to property and women of the unbelievers) and over a longer period of time than Europe... and it gave it sh..

Read Angus Madison if you want to know more.

Anyway, one may not like one side or the other but I would bet with my head that if Russia was allied with Saudi Arabia and other Gulf countries, then media like RT would portray rebels as glorious liberators and Assad as a ruthless dictator. Politics is politics, it knows evry little morality and is the same everywhere. wrote:

Tell me which countries are allied with russia and have such terrorists in bund and portray them as glory freedom fighters?

Hezbolla? Surely not they don't portray them as freedom fighters even if i wouldn't disaggree to a certain point like when Israel is invading its neighbour countries for several times, however russian media doesn't need such propaganda the US and its hypocrite allies serve so many things on them own which don't need much comment to show the true evil side.

Lies about nuclear weapon in Iraq, lies about mass killing of babies, no UN resolution, but gone to war, fucked the country 10 years long devistated the entire country killed over a million civilians, polluded the country with DU, used Weapons of Mass Destruction such as Chemical weapons, white phosphorous in mass and than never found any kind of WMD's...today same nonsense is told about Iran, the country that is defensive since centuries.

financcing terrorists in each war they can not or prefer not to fight on them own they use terrorists, they did that with Chechenian terrorists, with Lybian,with Syrian today, with Afghanistan, doing it right now in north african countries, financing little thugs in South America to poison the evil evil "communists" who doesn't obey pentagons wishes.

With such FACTS russian news don't need to glorify some scum to aim for an agenda, the west serves already all stories.

  


answer one questions - why are there no bloody US-supported dictatorships in eg. Norway or Germany? Why aren't people in Gwrmany tortured or beheaded for changing their religion as in Saudi Arabia? Why aren't homosexuals hanged in Germany or in any other European country? IS it because the US is more concerned about human rights in Europe than in any other region?

Or maybe it stems from innate differences between teachings of religions that Europe and Middle East are based at?

You certainly don't need US to set Middle East on fire. Biggest enemy in ME are people themselves. It's hard to tell why it's like that, historical/cultural/religion differences play their part, but there are always someone interest in endless conflicts too. I have no particular hate towards muslims, but I'm not too fond of them either.

Well, just compare reaction of American society to Guantanamo (where no one was killed actually) to reaction of Muslim societies to their own horrible atrocities - Guantanamo caused massive outrage of American public. On the contrary, when Islamic terrorists blow up Christians or execute people for leaving Islam, the rest of their society doesn't seem to be bothered at all by that. In fact many support these acts (one poll found out that 1/3 of British Muslims and 75% of Pakistanis support death penalty for apostates). And while Christians may feel offended by someone insulting Jesus, it's Muslims who put people insulting Muhammad to death. This could be seen just a year ago when one crappy movie about Muhammad caused massive rioting on several continents and brought death threats on the author.

Well still for us Europeans Americans act like barbarians sometimes;) Blindly supporting war, using chauvinist rhetoric, looking at everyone from above. By the way, what You think about muslims from Azerbaijan or Russia?

Wow so much bullshit is just over the top.
Fact is USA don't gives one single fuck about human rights in any country not even in their own, it's just a "nobel" justification to fool their own and western people to engage or finance,train and send terrorists into foreign countries. Tell me how bad are these bad bad muslim countries like Syria where under Asad (secularism) people are protected from persuction just because they are one kind of religion, that people have free education,good health care system,subvention for oil,housing,clothing, childrens and so on, same goes for Lybia,Iran all those countries who are told to be cruel and killing own people by USA, but a total silence by western controlled medias about the human rights abuses by Saudi Arabia,Bahrain,Qatar,Kuwait,Israhell,Malaysia with their few groups of religion people who are persecuted sometimes.

USA never will and never had give a single fuck about human rights they just want oil oil oil and more power.
Why is Africa totally ignored by Medias with all the human rights abuses against africans by Europeans and North Americans, controlling of militarisms, supplying of so called "liberators" how they call themselfs, funding western companies to dig for resources that never belong to us but by scamming those people with credits and conditions they never can pay back through confusing conditions and tricks and then forcing those tricked people to sell their resource full lands to repay credits we land with the goal that they have to repay us with their resourced lands.

You should screw your own fucked mind that "muslims" are bad, fact is through entire history one damn christian country after another fucked nearly the entire arabic region from crusades to this days, british empire, russian empire, britis again, americans,french,germans nearly every north american and european country has fucked up ME once or more.
We through them back in social and technological in development and by todays since 11.9 we propagandize that muslims are bad and terrorists and such gullible people like you getting indoctrinated.

Werewolf wrote:USA never will and never had give a single fuck about human rights they just want oil oil oil and more power.

Only about 30% of US oil imports are from Middle East. The largest single provider of oil to the US is... Canada, then Saudi Arabia, then Venezuela.

Werewolf wrote:ou should screw your own fucked mind that "muslims" are bad, fact is through entire history one damn christian country after another fucked nearly the entire arabic region from crusades to this days, british empire, russian empire, britis again, americans,french,germans nearly every north american and european country has fucked up ME once or more.

You didn't mention that before Europe attacked Muslims, Muslims attacked us. By the time crusades began, Muslim armies had conquered roughly two thirds of the Christian World.

The first Crusade began in 1095… 460 years after the first Christian city was overrun by Muslim armies, 457 years after Jerusalem was conquered by Muslim armies, 453 years after Egypt was taken by Muslim armies, 443 after Muslims first plundered Italy, 427 years after Muslim armies first laid siege to the Christian capital of Constantinople, 380 years after Spain was conquered by Muslim armies, 363 years after France was first attacked by Muslim armies, 249 years after the capital of the Christian world, Rome itself, was sacked by a Muslim army, and only after centuries of church burnings, killings, enslavement and forced conversions of Christians.

Yes and the great Germany don´t give us a world war.
The Europeans contries don´t colonizate Africans countries, my include , giving them a prosperous democracy(kiling and stealing their resources).etc...etc...etc...
Gee the Europeans are so good.
Maybe you have a communist under the bed...never forget to look. NEVER

With the exception of the UK no other country managed to build a profitable system of colonies in Africa. For most colonizing countries African colonies were mostly a symbol of status.

Ironically, you didn't say anything about Arab slave trade. It lasted for more than 1400 years - and Arabs were never interested in building schools or hospitals in Africa, as were Europeans. An estimated 17 to 20 million Africans were exported from their native land to the Muslim world, but this isn't the whole story.  With a transport survival rate of less than 1 in 3, it is estimated that perhaps 50 to 80 million more died in route. Most Arab countries did not outlaw slavery until well after WW2 and it was only due to pressure from western countries that they did it.

And they have never offered even a single apology - and probably never will.

It's like arguing what shit stinks the most.
Muslims were no better than christians in Middle ages. Both of them used religion to gain power and wealth.
Crusaders with their stupid cross targeted not only muslims but Orthodox and Pagans in Europe and did a ethnic cleaning of Baltic people. Teutonic order weren't here to bring us culture, wisdom or religion. They came to my lands to kill and loot. What happened to old true Prussians? Even Polish who were brother catholics got their ass kicked.
Same as muslims were fighting each other. Don't make it look like Islam vs Christianity.
We have tatars in Lithuania, Belarus and Poland and they are sunni muslims, been here for about 600 years and they were our military elite, warrior class, loyal and very respected people. You clearly should know thing or two about them as they formed our light cavalry and they were nobility, had status of szlechta and probably even served as heavier winged hussars too. Give a credit where credit is due. No need for blind hate

Sometimes I look in a thread and then wish I hadn't

This is one of those threads.

flamming_python wrote:Sometimes I look in a thread and then wish I hadn't

This is one of those threads.

This entire forum has been hijacked by some Asians with vested interest who are posting their vile & disgusting material to vilify Europeans.

There should be a rule in this forum that anyone who is not a Russian or has not stayed in Russia for extended periods not be allowed to post .