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    "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:29 am

    Cyberspec wrote:An oppinion piece on the accident where they mention how it potentially works

    it is not nuclear fission. Instead, there is a very active isotope, which creates a very high temperature, is directly converted into electricity. However, to dramatically change the trajectory of the missile to evade systems air and missile defense of potential enemy it needs a high specific impulse.

    https://expert.ru/2019/08/14/burevestnik/

    This has already been proven wrong. See above mention that it was not burevestnik.

    Also, here is specialists in west
    https://twitter.com/leon_elk/status/1161527173855031298?s=19
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:40 am

    miketheterrible wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:An oppinion piece on the accident where they mention how it potentially works

    it is not nuclear fission. Instead, there is a very active isotope, which creates a very high temperature, is directly converted into electricity. However, to dramatically change the trajectory of the missile to evade systems air and missile defense of potential enemy it needs a high specific impulse.

    https://expert.ru/2019/08/14/burevestnik/

    This has already been proven wrong. See above mention that it was not  burevestnik.

    Also, here is specialists in west
    https://twitter.com/leon_elk/status/1161527173855031298?s=19


    Where's MSNBC's preeminent Russkie expert, Rachel "The Bulldagger-Dyke" Madcow when you need her

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    Gibraltar
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    Post  Gibraltar on Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:14 am

    So, was a super RTG, fueled with nuclear steroids. And this things is aimed to instantly boost rocket thrust for quick evading manouvers. This means is a technology for the next-gen ICBMs and SLBMs. Wow. BTW there is a problem now. The more the isotope is active, the faster it decays. There are extremely active isotopes whose half-life is of ..seconds ..minutes ..hours ..days nothing to do with thousend miles years of some nuclear wastes. The thing to me assumes big proportions technically speaking. If they project to put in strategic stockpile such a thing,.means it would last 50 half-a-century at least. I say it whispering, maybe they found a new element or a new isotope with long lasting ultra-high activity. And if my atomic knowings are still good, this should be a super-heavy atom! Heavier than uranium, plutonium and cousins.

    Anyone coming to same conclusions of mine?
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:35 am

    So GarryB, you think Russia is working on the nuclear power scramjet engine. It would be a very interesting project.

    It would combine two areas where they are pretty near putting in to service examples of such technology.

    What is better than an unlimited range low flying subsonic cruise missile?

    A high flying hypersonic cruise missile with unlimited range... for doomsday weapons having nuclear propulsion that will make the greenies shit themselves is actually a bonus and not a drawback... in fact if they can manage it a nuclear furnace producing a scramjet propulsion system could be used at very low altitude which would be even harder to intercept than a high flying missile flying faster... the air is super dense at low altitudes so if they can get a missile moving at mach 3 or 4 at near sea level it would be incredibly hard to stop because very few missiles move at that speed at low altitude.

    The Americans had a low flying nuclear powered supersonic cruise missile in development in the 1960s but they cancelled it as too much of a dooms day weapon... it flew at low altitude at mach 3 and would kill people out in the open as it flew by just by its supersonic bow wave... it would cause damage just flying along, and if you switched from clean drive to dirty drive it could ruin the air as well... Russia could send some to fly around the US and EU for the next 50 to 100 years polluting the air and destroying buildings and people... at mach 4 it could be 1km away and then a second later it has blown past you...
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    Post  Gibraltar on Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:08 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    So GarryB, you think Russia is working on the nuclear power scramjet engine. It would be a very interesting project.

    It would combine two areas where they are pretty near putting in to service examples of such technology.

    What is better than an unlimited range low flying subsonic cruise missile?

    A high flying hypersonic cruise missile with unlimited range... for doomsday weapons having nuclear propulsion that will make the greenies shit themselves is actually a bonus and not a drawback... in fact if they can manage it a nuclear furnace producing a scramjet propulsion system could be used at very low altitude which would be even harder to intercept than a high flying missile flying faster... the air is super dense at low altitudes so if they can get a missile moving at mach 3 or 4 at near sea level it would be incredibly hard to stop because very few missiles move at that speed at low altitude.

    The Americans had a low flying nuclear powered supersonic cruise missile in development in the 1960s but they cancelled it as too much of a dooms day weapon... it flew at low altitude at mach 3 and would kill people out in the open as it flew by just by its supersonic bow wave... it would cause damage just flying along, and if you switched from clean drive to dirty drive it could ruin the air as well... Russia could send some to fly around the US and EU for the next 50 to 100 years polluting the air and destroying buildings and people... at mach 4 it could be 1km away and then a second later it has blown past you...


    I don't think Russia would apply in a so obsolete weapon concept that USA could easily match resuming and updating a 60's skunky project. I assume also that a dirty drive nuclear cruise missile is one of that dr. Strangelove ideas that will have bad implication even with friendly countries. If they'll really do it will be a clean drive engine. Otherway it will make appear cold war yankee leaders as peace nobel prizes.
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    Post  Cyberspec on Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:36 am

    Burevestnik according to Stratfor

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    Post  kvs on Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:00 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:Burevestnik according to Stratfor

    "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile - Page 13 Burevestnik

    An isotope generator and nuclear reactor are not the same thing so Strafor is full of shit.    According to Russian sources
    there is an isotope generator on the Burevestnik which drives an electric turbine.    BTW, passage of air through the
    elements of the reactor would create a lot of drag and slow the airflow dramatically so such a design is very inefficient
    for an air propulsion system.

    The test that resulted in the fire and explosion was on a new type of isotope generator and not nuclear reactor.   My guess
    is that effort is being directed at making isotope generators more powerful which requires them to transition towards
    nuclear reactors but not be full chain reaction designs.    The problem, as the test demonstrated, is that too much heat
    is being released and this wastes the pseudo-reactor energy and creates cooling headaches.
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    Post  Hole on Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:13 pm

    The failed test was a liquid-fueled engine with a nuclear battery instead of a chemical one.
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    Post  kvs on Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:50 pm

    Hole wrote:The failed test was a liquid-fueled engine with a nuclear battery instead of a chemical one.

    Rosatom used the term isotope generator. But I doubt any isotope generator would experience such an accident.
    Maybe they are using the isotope to convert phase change the working fluid like water in a steam turbine. So
    instead of electricity, they are using the working fluid. The isotope is being used to release heat and not electricity
    in some vapourization chamber. The thermal energy is then lost in the turbine and the working fluid condenses
    to a liquid again to be cycled through the heat chamber to vapourize.
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    Post  Arrow on Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:12 am

    According to Russian sources there is an isotope generator on the Burevestnik which drives an electric turbine. wrote:


    Burevestnik is not powered by a electric turbine. As you can see from the movie, the jet emits a flame like from a jet engine
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    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:44 pm

    Arrow wrote:
    According to Russian sources there is an isotope generator on the Burevestnik which drives an electric turbine. wrote:


    Burevestnik is not powered by a electric turbine. As you can see from the movie, the jet emits a flame like from a jet engine

    If you are talking about that old takeoff footage that wasn't​ the nuclear engine, it was booster rocket

    Main engine only activates once missile is in the air


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    Post  flamming_python on Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:26 pm

    Arrow wrote:


    Burevestnik is not powered by a electric turbine. As you can see from the movie, the jet emits a flame like from a jet engine

    Might just be a booster rocket
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    Post  Arrow on Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:28 pm

    No, this is not a booster. Look at the movie released on March 1, 2018 when the Burevestnik rocket is flying without a  rocket booster.

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    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:21 pm

    Arrow wrote:No, this is not a booster. Look at the movie released on March 1, 2018 when the Burevestnik rocket is flying without a  rocket booster.

    "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile - Page 13 16b9e49c7170

    This is miniscule image, do you have the link to video?

    I distinctly remember that there was white compressed air coming out of the exaust and not flame



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    Post  kvs on Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:17 pm

    Arrow wrote:No, this is not a booster. Look at the movie released on March 1, 2018 when the Burevestnik rocket is flying without a  rocket booster.

    "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile - Page 13 16b9e49c7170

    Cut the crap, sunshine. There is a whole video of the cruise missile in flight and it does not spew any flame. Your contextless, uncited BS should
    grounds for a permaban.



    The flame is from a booster platform. Once in flight you have no flame. The selective editing of the video makes it look like there is a flame but that
    is just overexposed video. The "steam" emission is from the ignition of the isotope generator that needs to be cooled until it equilibrates and before
    the turbine is in full operation regime.

    Now go back to watching US cartoons.

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    Post  Arrow on Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:54 am

    Of course you can see the flame emanating from the nozzle. It doesn't suit your theory, so you can't see it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXJIhEDZ2Ik 0:29s


    Now go back to watching US cartoons. wrote:

    Could you not tell me what to do? Thank you.
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    Post  Arrow on Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:20 am

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    The nozzle flame is clearly visible. The nozzle is under the missile. There are probably two nozzles. Maybe the Burevestnik engine power is from some isotopes, but it's doubtful that the turbine would be electrically powered. If there is a reactor there must be amazing progress. It would be very small since the projectile itself is about the size of the Ch-101.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:44 pm

    “Burevestnik”: Why Does Russia Need Such a Missile?

    "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile - Page 13 Inx960x640-13

    Military expert Dmitry Kornev spoke about the peculiarities of the new nuclear-powered cruise missile and its capabilities…

    A missile with an unlimited range can stay in the zone of waiting for orders for a long time, and, in case of the creation of a retargeting system, strike a blow to the widest range of targets, including upon the command of the “Perimetr” system (“dead hand”) – i.e., when the country has already been struck by a nuclear missile strike.

    "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile - Page 13 Burevestnik-1

    Under such conditions, it is an almost an ideal weapon of retaliation, which, even if defeated by enemy air defences, will infect the terrain with the remnants of its engine. The deflection of such a strike by modern air defences allows, of course, some percentage of missiles to be shot down, but surviving warheads will still bring the damage to an unacceptable level, thus ensuring the fulfilment of their task in a strategic sense.

    "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile - Page 13 Burevestnik-2

    The nuclear reactor in such an engine carries out the role of a combustion chamber and heats a working medium – air. The period of operation of such an engine and, respectively, its missile range are almost unlimited. The control system is probably based on the same principles as in the control systems of other modern cruise missiles – flight trajectory correction is carried out at correction areas, the digital maps of which are put in the memory of the missile.

    There is, of course, a nuance – taking into account the unlimited reach of such a missile it is necessary to provide the possibility to reprogram “on the go” the routes of its flight and receive new flight tasks with the accompanying information – the digital maps of new areas of the terrain. Conventional cruise missiles are not equipped with such systems yet, but their creation is technically feasible.

    "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile - Page 13 Burevestnik-4

    Of course, testing any weapon of this level is a multi-year and complex process. It is necessary to work out the aircraft structure, check it for strength, work out the launch system, transition to flight, all stages of flight, and target damage. In addition – storage, operation, application, and even disposal.

    The labour intensity of this process in the case of “Burevestnik” is related to the need to maintain nuclear power sources, as well as the fact that it is a completely new type of cruise missile, which also imposes special safety demands at all stages, from the factory to the bases from which such missiles will be used, as well as completely specific demands for test areas – when such missiles fall, it is likely that there will be a minor contamination (but contamination all the same) of the terrain.

    https://www.stalkerzone.org/burevestnik-why-does-russia-need-such-a-missile/
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:25 am

    Here Is What Russia Was Really Testing in the Radiation Explosion Accident
    Russia wants "autonomous" missiles in canisters that can be dumped on the ocean floor and wait years and decades to be activated remotely

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    How the mainstream media reported an August 8 accident at a top-secret missile test facility in northern Russia should serve as a cautionary tale regarding the dangers of rushed judgments via institutional bias.

    In the days following the initial report of the accident, the media exploded with speculation over both the nature of the device being tested at the Nenoksa State Central Marine Test Site and the Russian government’s muted response. Typical of the hysteria was the analysis of Jeffrey Lewis, director of the East Asia Nonproliferation Program for the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies and editor of the blog “Arms Control Wonk.”

    Lewis and his collaborators penned a breathless article for Foreign Policy that asked, “What Really Happened?” According to Lewis, the answer was clear: “The reference to radiation was striking—tests of missile engines don’t involve radiation. Well, with one exception: Last year, Russia announced it had tested a cruise missile powered by a nuclear reactor. It calls this missile the 9M730 Burevestnik. NATO calls it the SSC-X-9 Skyfall.”

    Lewis’s assessment was joined by President Trump’s, who tweeted, “The United States is learning much from the failed missile explosion in Russia…. The Russian ‘Skyfall’ explosion has people worried about the air around the facility, and far beyond. Not good!” Trump’s tweet appeared to conform with the assessments of the intelligence community, which, according to The New York Times, also attributed the accident to a failed test of the Skyfall missile.

    Former Obama administration national security analyst Samantha Vinograd tweeted: “Possibly the worst nuclear accident in the region since Chernobyl + possibly a new kind of Russian missile = this is a big deal.”

    The Washington Post editorial board joined Vinograd in invoking the imagery of Chernobyl: “If this slow dribble of facts sounds familiar, it is — the same parade of misdirection happened during the Chernobyl nuclear disaster in 1986.”

    They’re all wrong. Here’s the real story of what actually happened at Nenoksa.

    Liquid-fuel ballistic missiles are tricky things. Most Russian liquid-fueled missiles make use of hypergolic fuels, consisting of a fuel (in most cases asymmetrical dimethylhydrazine, or heptyl) and an oxidizer (nitrogen tetroxide), which, when combined, spontaneously combust. For this to happen efficiently, the fuel and oxidizer need to be maintained at “room temperature,” generally accepted as around 70 degrees Fahrenheit. For missiles stored in launch silos, or in launch canisters aboard submarines, temperature control is regulated by systems powered by the host—either a generator, if in a silo, or the submarine’s own power supply, if in a canister.

    Likewise, the various valves, switches, and other components critical to the successful operation of a liquid-fuel ballistic missile, including onboard electronics and guidance and control systems, must be maintained in an equilibrium, or steady state, until launch. The electrical power required to accomplish this is not considerable, but it must be constant. Loss of power will disrupt the equilibrium of the missile system, detrimentally impacting its transient response at time of launch and leading to failure.

    Russia has long been pursuing so-called “autonomous” weapons that can be decoupled from conventional means of delivery—a missile silo or a submarine—and instead installed in canisters that protect them from the environment. They would then be deployed on the floor of the ocean, lying in wait until remotely activated. One of the major obstacles confronting the Russians is the need for system equilibrium, including the onboard communications equipment, prior to activation. The power supply for any system must be constant, reliable, and capable of operating for extended periods of time without the prospect of fuel replenishment.

    The solution for this power supply problem is found in so-called “nuclear batteries,” or radioisotope thermoelectric generators (RTG). An RTG generates electricity using thermocouples that convert the heat released by the decay of radioactive material. RTGs have long been used in support of operations in space. The Russians have long used them to provide power to remote unmanned facilities in the arctic and in mountainous terrain. Cesium-137, a byproduct of the fission of U-235, is considered an ideal radioisotope for military application RTGs.

    On August 8, a joint team from the Ministry of Defense and the All-Russian Research Institute of Experimental Physics, subordinated to the State Atomic Energy Corporation (ROSATOM), conducted a test of a liquid-fueled rocket engine, in which electric power from Cesium-137 “nuclear batteries” maintained its equilibrium state. The test was conducted at the Nenoksa State Central Marine Test Site (GTsMP), a secret Russian naval facility known as Military Unit 09703. It took place in the waters of the White Sea, off the coast of the Nenoksa facility, onboard a pair of pontoon platforms.

    The test had been in the making for approximately a year. What exactly was being tested and why remain a secret, but the evaluation went on for approximately an hour. It did not involve the actual firing of the engine, but rather the non-destructive testing of the RTG power supply to the engine.

    The test may have been a final system check—the Russian deputy defense minister, Pavel Popov, monitored events from the Nenoksa military base. Meanwhile, the deputy head of research and testing at the All-Russian Research Institute of Experimental Physics, Vyasheslav Yanovsky, considered to be one of Russia’s most senior nuclear scientists, monitored events onboard the off-shore platform. Joining Yanovsky were seven other specialists from the institute, including Vyacheslav Lipshev, the head of the research and development team. They accompanied representatives from the Ministry of Defense, along with specialists from the design bureau responsible for the liquid-fuel engine.

    When the actual testing finished, something went very wrong. According to a sailor from the nearby Severdvinsk naval base, the hypergolic fuels contained in the liquid engine (their presence suggests that temperature control was one of the functions being tested) somehow combined. This created an explosion that destroyed the liquid engine, sending an unknown amount of fuel and oxidizer into the water. At least one, and perhaps more, of the Cesium-137 RTGs burst open, contaminating equipment and personnel alike.

    Four men—two Ministry of Defense personnel and two ROSATOM scientists—were killed immediately. Those who remained on the damaged platform were taken to the Nenoksa base and decontaminated, before being transported to a local military clinic that specializes in nuclear-related emergencies. Here, doctors in full protective gear oversaw their treatment and additional decontamination. All of them survived.

    Three of the ROSATOM scientists were thrown by the explosion into the waters of the White Sea and were rescued only after a lengthy search. These men were transported to the Arkhangelsk hospital. Neither the paramedics who attended to the injured scientists, nor the hospital staff who received them, were informed that the victims had been exposed to Cesium-137, leading to the cross-contamination of the hospital staff and its premises.

    The next day, all the personnel injured during the test were transported to Moscow for treatment at a facility that specializes in radiation exposure; two of the victims pulled from the water died en route. Medical personnel involved in treating the victims were likewise dispatched to Moscow for evaluation; one doctor was found to be contaminated with Cesium-137.

    The classified nature of the test resulted in the Russian government taking precautions to control information concerning the accident. The Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) seized all the medical records associated with the treatment of accident victims and had the doctors and medical personnel sign non-disclosure agreements.

    The Russian Meteorological Service (Roshydromet) operates what’s known as the Automatic Radiation Monitoring System (ASKRO) in the city of Severdvinsk. ASKRO detected two “surges” in radiation, one involving Gamma particles, the other Beta particles. This is a pattern consistent with the characteristics of Cesium-137, which releases Gamma rays as it decays, creating Barium-137m, which is a Beta generator. The initial detection was reported on the Roshydromet website, though it was subsequently taken offline.

    Specialized hazardous material teams scoured the region around Nenoksa, Archangesk, and Severdvinsk, taking air and environmental samples. All these tested normal, confirming that the contamination created by the destruction of the Cesium-137 batteries was limited to the area surrounding the accident. Due to the large amount of missile fuel that was spilled, special restrictions concerning fishing and swimming were imposed in the region’s waters — at least until the fuel was neutralized by the waters of the White Sea. The damage had been contained, and the threat was over.

    The reality of what happened at Nenoksa is tragic. Seven men lost their lives and scores of others were injured. But there was no explosion of a “nuclear cruise missile,” and it wasn’t the second coming of Chernobyl. America’s intelligence community and the so-called experts got it wrong — again. The root cause of their error is their institutional bias against Russia, which leads them to view that country in the worst possible light, regardless of the facts.

    At a time when the level of mutual mistrust between our two nuclear-armed nations is at an all-time high, this kind of irresponsible rush to judgement must be avoided at all costs.


    https://www.checkpointasia.net/here-is-what-russia-was-really-testing-in-the-radiation-explosion-accident/
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    Post  kvs on Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:57 am

    The Norwegians claim they detected radioactive iodine. Iodine isotopes are not a product of Cs-137 decay. The only products
    are an unstable and then stable isotope of Barium.



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    Post  GarryB on Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:55 am

    The Norwaywegians can't even sail safely in the dark with their most state of the art ships... why should they be listened to... they have an agenda too.
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    Post  kvs on Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:36 pm

    GarryB wrote:The Norwaywegians can't even sail safely in the dark with their most state of the art ships... why should they be listened to... they have an agenda too.

    It isn't Norwegian meat that is making the measurements. It is automated equipment that is deployed in Italy and elsewhere as part of
    a detection network. Operator chimps just need to report the measurements.

    The whole scenario of using hypergolics for a cruise missile is moronic. The Burevestnik is an electric turbine model. Russia is testing
    as far as I can tell (top secret) an actual analogue of a steam turbine. Instead of wasting energy converting heat to electricity, using
    the heat directly via a working fluid makes more sense. In this case the nuclear battery has to be redesigned to maximize the heat.
    So a different set of isotopes must be chosen. Cs-137 is a gamma emitter. Gamma photons penetrate a lot of matter without depositing
    much energy. Isotopes that are beta or even alpha emitters are better options.

    As for the other supposition of this author that Russia wants to plant ICBMs on the ocean floor. He really needs to lay off the crack.
    The Poseidon is a mobile concept that makes sense since it prevents detection. Having stationary seabed ICBMs allows the yanquis and their minions to locate and tag such systems. The author is also clearly clueless about the advances in Russia solid rocket fuel
    which are evident in the Kinzhal and the proposed railway ICBM system. If someone with a brain was to deploy ICBMs to the seafloor
    they would use solid rocket fuel instead of corrosive liquid fuels known for instability.
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    Post  Hole on Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:26 pm

    They tested a liquid fueled engine for an missile, propably a new SLBM. The isotopes are from an battery of this engine.
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    "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile - Page 13 Empty Re: "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

    Post  Arrow on Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:36 pm

    I think Russia test nuclear scramjet engine Very Happy

    hey tested a liquid fueled engine for an missile, propably a new SLBM. The isotopes are from an battery of this engine. wrote:

    RTG would not increase radiation like that in Nenoska. Russia has new SLBM Bulava with modern solid fuel engine.
    Hole
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    "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile - Page 13 Empty Re: "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

    Post  Hole on Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:20 pm

    It was a test of a new engine for a new missile. The radioisotope or nuclear battery is also used to generate the "spark" to ignite the fuel mixture. Could all be read in an article a few days ago. Iswestija. And Sputnik.

    https://de.sputniknews.com/technik/20190816325614839-russland-atom-rakete-explosion/

    I got it only in German.

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    "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile - Page 13 Empty Re: "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

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