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    "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:20 pm

    Arrow wrote:www.russiadefence.net/post?t=7211&mode=reply

    So it was Burevestnik nuclear engine. The program is in very serious trouble.


    It's a nuclear powered cruise missile with propulsion system never attempted before

    Of course there is risk of stuff blowing up from time to time

    How is it in trouble?


    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:56 am

    This cannot be the same propulsion unit as used in the Burevestnik. Rockets aren't built before the engines are certified for
    sanity. This may be a variant where its performance was being pushed. I guess they have learned their lesson.

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:32 am

    Well they might be pushing the performance to go from a subsonic nuclear ramjet powered missile to a hypersonic nuclear sramjet powered missile... shift from low altitude flight to high altitude flight but crank up the speed by a significant amount...

    That would certainly be worth testing and working towards, with a potential result of a much more potent weapon... in fact early on in the cold war before ICBMs had been perfected there was a wide range of very long range cruise missiles that flew high but fast and remained in the atmosphere and were intended to be intercontinental nuclear weapons... having a nuclear powered hypersonic missile with unlimited range could lead to a return to such strategic cruise missiles... imagine an unlimited range hypersonic mach 8-10 cruise missile... you would not need strategic bombers or cruise missile carriers any more... it would make little point to fly them to launch areas at subsonic speeds and then launch them on their hypersonic missions to their targets... when you can launch them from airfields deep inside Russia at hypersonic speeds just after launch the other way around the planet towards their targets... they might take twice as long to get to the targets in a direct flight... perhaps one hour, but you could also fill them up with dozens of warheads that it can drop on the way too and it could fly around the US for years with its nuclear rocket engine switched to filthy to pollute their atmosphere as it flys around randomly releasing dirty small fission bombs... perhaps cobalt laced weapons.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:09 am


    They say explosion happened on a test platform out at sea so that could be reason for human casualties

    Usually static test would be done on the ground with various protective barriers in place and bunker for operators but since this was nuclear engine they had to choose between operators' safety and civilian safety/environmental damage

    It was either/or situation so they opted to take a risk with platform rather than with potentially irradiating civilians

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:31 am

    The report I read said that the explosion knocked several people into the water and so they did not report them as being dead until their bodies were recovered and their deaths confirmed... what bastards... hiding information like that from people of the west who have every right to know everything that they do...
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:50 pm

    GarryB wrote:Well they might be pushing the performance to go from a subsonic nuclear ramjet powered missile to a hypersonic nuclear sramjet powered missile... shift from low altitude flight to high altitude flight but crank up the speed by a significant amount...

    That would certainly be worth testing and working towards, with a potential result of a much more potent weapon... in fact early on in the cold war before ICBMs had been perfected there was a wide range of very long range cruise missiles that flew high but fast and remained in the atmosphere and were intended to be intercontinental nuclear weapons... having a nuclear powered hypersonic missile with unlimited range could lead to a return to such strategic cruise missiles... imagine an unlimited range hypersonic mach 8-10 cruise missile... you would not need strategic bombers or cruise missile carriers any more... it would make little point to fly them to launch areas at subsonic speeds and then launch them on their hypersonic missions to their targets... when you can launch them from airfields deep inside Russia at hypersonic speeds just after launch the other way around the planet towards their targets... they might take twice as long to get to the targets in a direct flight... perhaps one hour, but you could also fill them up with dozens of warheads that it can drop on the way too and it could fly around the US for years with its nuclear rocket engine switched to filthy to pollute their atmosphere as it flys around randomly releasing dirty small fission bombs... perhaps cobalt laced weapons.

    If that is what they are developing, then more power to them. It looks like the test was essentially successful but there was
    some sort of overheating that resulted in a fire that led to the explosion and loss of life. Seems they underestimated the heat
    emission and not all the materials were up to spec. Or there was a fuel line leak. Instead of dick stroking with glee, western
    chauvinists should be worried that Russia has opened up a whole new branch of nuclear propulsion which it is actively developing.

    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:40 pm

    Apparently they are now getting some village close by to be evacuated for another test coming up.

    So I guess they got a second unit ready to go and doing same test. This time, on ground.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:23 pm

    https://twitter.com/ZivoUS/status/1161370140543541248?s=19
    Vladimir79
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:44 pm

    I always said it was a waste of time and money to test such a thing and now our scientists are dead and the area radioactive. Someone must answer for this...
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:20 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:I always said it was a waste of time and money to test such a thing and now our scientists are dead and the area radioactive.  Someone must answer for this...

    There have been many deaths around the world pertaining to rocket and rocket engine development. Our scientist
    would not be dead if NATO wasn't an insane military axis bent on world domination.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:45 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:I always said it was a waste of time and money to test such a thing and now our scientists are dead and the area radioactive. Someone must answer for this...

    Who should answer? Same scientist that came up with this project and who just got blown up?

    Cyberspec
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    Post  Cyberspec on Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:20 am

    miketheterrible wrote:https://twitter.com/ZivoUS/status/1161370140543541248?s=19

    I think Zivo could be right...I've heard other (knowledgeable) people suggest the same thing


    PapaDragon wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:I always said it was a waste of time and money to test such a thing and now our scientists are dead and the area radioactive.  Someone must answer for this...

    Who should answer? Same scientist that came up with this project and who just got blown up?


    Just guessing...I think he means Putin himself. What a Face

    Personally I think they're right to develop these technologies

    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:53 am

    More detailed description: https://lenta.ru/news/2019/08/13/burevestnik2/
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:01 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:More detailed description: https://lenta.ru/news/2019/08/13/burevestnik2/

    There is no freaking way that the Burevestnik propulsion system was the one being tested. Anyone who thinks that Putin
    announced Burevestnik before it was operational is an idiot. If the Burevestnik uses an thermoelectric isotope power source
    then there is no particular risk of it blowing up or even catching fire. There have been decades of such "reactors" produced
    and how many accidents have you heard of?

    The accident indicates that something different was being tested. Something outside the norm and collected data. It seems
    that too much heat was generated which was not anticipated. Thermoelectric isotope generators can have their parameters
    determined a priori based on the decay rate of the isotope and the energy of the decay products. If they did not have
    this information, then they are testing a new concept that may be some sort of partial chain reaction based system. That
    is, they are trying to get more power density out of a given weight of the generator. Isotope generators are rather weak.
    By partial chain reaction I mean that no runaway melt down can happen, but the generator is more dirty with more than
    one daughter product. This is the price you pay for fending off a rogue military axis.

    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:48 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:I always said it was a waste of time and money to test such a thing and now our scientists are dead and the area radioactive.  Someone must answer for this...

    You're in France. They aren't your scientists. Add to that, people die anyways regardless what they do and such fields, dangers exist.  People die on construction sites. So should Putin be held responsible for those deaths too?  Get over yourself.

    Anyway, as KVS said, it isn't the cruise missile that media proclaims it to be. Lenta and others just spew same nonsense cause it's media sensation and generates clicks.  They have no idea what it was as much as anyone else due to the secrecy of project. Heck, their source is a Pavel podvig kinda guy they quoted from Facebook Laughing journalism is a joke these days

    https://ria.ru/20190813/1557455080.html

    As I said, whatever they are testing will continue to be tested.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:52 am

    You can do all you can to minimise risks but with experimental systems comes potential for great leaps forward, but also great falls.

    You can only guarantee never failing by never trying.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:56 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:I always said it was a waste of time and money to test such a thing and now our scientists are dead and the area radioactive.  Someone must answer for this...

    Well as a weapon, its development is questionable as Kalibr/kh 101 will get ranges of 4000km and they have enough carriers for them to destroy the world 2 or 3 times.

    But if they succeed to develop a nuclear engine it will be a huge step for them and humanity. Such engine could even be used in space crafts, and in my opinion 7th, 8th and 9th generation of fighters will be fighters that can travel in space and control the "roads" to the moon and other planets that will be colonized. Forget stealth idiocy.

    If I were them I would immediately switch to a civilian engine of that thing. That way it would be bigger so easier to make. No need for hypersonic speed, no need for booster and no need for warheads so much safer.
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    Post  Arrow on Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:04 am

    So GarryB, you think Russia is working on the nuclear power scramjet engine. It would be a very interesting project.
    Gibraltar
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    Post  Gibraltar on Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:37 pm

    Maybe this video be authenthic?
    If yes, someone could learn something from the explosion?



    https://youtu.be/PI2aroKAtNU
    Gibraltar
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    Post  Gibraltar on Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:42 pm

    I agree that the device tested should'nt be burevestnik missile but I think is something else related to space crafts or maybe a super-poseidon with cavitation feautures with similar/same mini-reactor. To me the shockwave ball of first frames seems a nuclear one, but I'm not a blasts expert at all.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:48 pm

    Gibraltar wrote:Maybe this video be authenthic?
    If yes, someone could learn something from the explosion?



    https://youtu.be/PI2aroKAtNU

    That's the explosion of a munnition depot few days before the explosion the missile.
    Hole
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    Post  Hole on Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:47 pm

    Even if this had something to do with Burevestnik and there were some problems... Who cares? The problems will be solved and in the meantime this system is not the only means of deterrence. Avangard and Kinzhal are in service. Poseidon and Zircon will join them soon. Sarmat is on track. Kaliber-M and the new ultra-long-range cruise missile for the Tu-160 are in development. And after Bolton/Pompeo canceled the INF treaty these cruise missiles can also be put on trucks.
    dino00
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    Post  dino00 on Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:20 pm

    Jet breakthrough: “nuclear batteries” were tested near Severodvinsk

    The explosion at the Nyonoks training range occurred during the development of a new propulsion system


    The explosion at a training ground in the Arkhangelsk region, which claimed the lives of five Rosatom specialists on August 8, is not related to work on the Burevestnik missile. The accident occurred during the test, not of a rocket, but of a promising accelerator - a new liquid-propellant propulsion system, on board of which "nuclear batteries" were mounted, an Izvestia source in the military department said and two more sources in the defense industry confirmed. “ Batteries” on the military-industrial slang are called fundamentally new isotopic power sources. Despite the failure, development will continue.

    Full article

    https://iz.ru/910285/aleksei-ramm-roman-kretcul-aleksei-kozachenko/reaktivnyi-proryv-pod-severodvinskom-ispytyvalis-iadernye-batareiki

    Not burevestnik.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:32 pm

    Anything bleeding edge will eventually cut you. NASA had quite few disasters, but no one called for indefinite moratorium on space flights.
    Cyberspec
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    Post  Cyberspec on Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:29 am

    An oppinion piece on the accident where they mention how it potentially works

    it is not nuclear fission. Instead, there is a very active isotope, which creates a very high temperature, is directly converted into electricity. However, to dramatically change the trajectory of the missile to evade systems air and missile defense of potential enemy it needs a high specific impulse.

    https://expert.ru/2019/08/14/burevestnik/

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