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    Syrian Civil War: News #17

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    calm

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    Re: Syrian Civil War: News #17

    Post  calm on Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:03 pm

    One of the biggest battles of Syrian war is about to start. Elite Tiger Force march on Damascus, next mission clear the Eastern Ghouta of illegal armed formation.
    https://muraselon.com/en/2018/02/exclusive-syrian-elite-forces-damascus-new-mission/
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    Kimppis

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    Re: Syrian Civil War: News #17

    Post  Kimppis on Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:54 pm

    Anatoly Karlin's very pessimistic assessment:

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/the-partition-of-syria/

    It's very rare that I and even most (?) other commentators seem to disagree with him.

    Basically the argument seems to be that Russia-Iran-SAA have not actually won anything and the US has the upper hand in the region. The US military might hit Russian bases at any time.
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    eehnie

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    Re: Syrian Civil War: News #17

    Post  eehnie on Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:57 pm

    Isos wrote:
    eehnie wrote:
    George1 wrote:Ok then, since there is no agreement let the administrator take the decision. I would like Vlad's opinion

    But let me ask you, why u insist in the poll on a general topic for syrian civil war and you dont prefer it separate where views on the subject can be posted?

    After all since we lock all the topics that reach 990 answers, if i was online earlier i could have started the new one for syrian civil war and then you wouldnt be able to make a poll on this, you should create a new topic-subject-poll

    I do not insist. I comented that I dissagree about other people pressuring successfully to modify my comment here, when it was not breaking any rule.

    As commented, I care about my comments on some issues, and I do not see myself as the author of the combination proposed of comment+poll+new topic. This is the reason why asked my comment to be deleted in the new topic.

    We don't care. Stop spoiling the forum like a child.

    This comment is a shame. You are the alone children here, feeling part of a bully gang.

    But Im never easy for bullies.

    Shame on you with this comment showing the cowardice that leads you to hide in a "we".

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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Syrian Civil War: News #17

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:04 pm

    Kimppis wrote:Anatoly Karlin's very pessimistic assessment:
    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/the-partition-of-syria/
    It's very rare that I and even most (?) other commentators seem to disagree with him.
    Basically the argument seems to be that Russia-Iran-SAA have not actually won anything and the US has the upper hand in the region. The US military might hit Russian bases at any time.  

    USA can hit any Russian any base anywhere at any time, same goes for US bases being hit by Russia anywhere at any time. Has been that way for decades. You can add China into that mix.

    But there is a reason why none of it happened in over half a century and it won't.

    Author may be concerned about partition of Syria but that is Syrian issue. Russian interests are on the coastline and are secured and no longer dependent on Syrian territorial integrity.

    Latter part is Syrian and Iranian problem first and foremost, not Russian.
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    Airman

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    Re: Syrian Civil War: News #17

    Post  Airman on Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:05 pm

    More Turkish tanks are going to #Afrin including M60T Firat tanks (they have Fırat(Euphrates) modernization) and tank recovery vehicles.
    #OperationOliveBranch
    https://twitter.com/Acemal71/status/963421396947914755







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    JohninMK

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    Re: Syrian Civil War: News #17

    Post  JohninMK on Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:15 pm

    Just love that last photo. The column of tanks moving forward at the pace of a soldier with his hand luggage on wheels. All that's missing is a little red warning flag.
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Syrian Civil War: News #17

    Post  JohninMK on Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:34 pm


    Lucas Tomlinson
    ‏Verified account @LucasFoxNews
    3h3 hours ago

    JUST IN: US jet destroys Russian T-72 battle tank in E Syria in 'self-defense' Saturday after 'pro-regime forces' fired on US special ops and allied Syrian fighters near same location of last week's attack, officials say. No US or allied casualties. 3 inside tank killed.


    ATLASCUB

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    Re: Syrian Civil War: News #17

    Post  ATLASCUB on Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:50 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Kimppis wrote:Anatoly Karlin's very pessimistic assessment:
    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/the-partition-of-syria/
    It's very rare that I and even most (?) other commentators seem to disagree with him.
    Basically the argument seems to be that Russia-Iran-SAA have not actually won anything and the US has the upper hand in the region. The US military might hit Russian bases at any time.  

    USA can hit any Russian any base anywhere at any time, same goes for US bases being hit by Russia anywhere at any time. Has been that way for decades. You can add China into that mix.

    But there is a reason why none of it happened in over half a century and it won't.

    Author may be concerned about partition of Syria but that is Syrian issue. Russian interests are on the coastline and are secured and no longer dependent on Syrian territorial integrity.

    Latter part is Syrian and Iranian problem first and foremost, not Russian.

    South Korea is not a problem? lol1 lol1

    Not to say a North/South split is gonna happen here (West/NorthEast) but you brushing aside the partition of Syria as an acceptable outcome (for Russia) shows you have no strategic depth. Or, the version I like to believe....which is: you're such a Russian homer that you'll say stupid shit just to cover/sugarcoat what might be perceived as Russian weakness. Literally no one cares what narrative anyone(including me) types here - nor such narratives make inconvenient facts go away.

    ATLASCUB

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    Re: Syrian Civil War: News #17

    Post  ATLASCUB on Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:55 pm

    calm wrote:One of the biggest battles of Syrian war is about to start. Elite Tiger Force march on Damascus, next mission clear the Eastern Ghouta of illegal armed formation.
    https://muraselon.com/en/2018/02/exclusive-syrian-elite-forces-damascus-new-mission/

    Long overdue.
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    crod

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    Re: Syrian Civil War: News #17

    Post  crod on Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:03 pm

    “Author may be concerned about partition of Syria but that is Syrian issue. Russian interests are on the coastline and are secured and no longer dependent on Syrian territorial integrity.”

    Russian interests will turn to shit if Syria is broken up, surely you see that right? Russia won’t have shit of the coastline as the political landscape will be changed forever in Syria and the Russians will be kicked out; one of the main reasons the Americans are planning such an outcome (splitting the country up) - to reduce Russian influence within their sphere of the ME. Russia will leave and won’t fight America over it, we all know that to be true just like America won’t take on Russia over Crimea/Ukraine.

    The status quo will not remain post conflict, people on here are far underestimating the US here, they will do as they will....as always.

    They had no problem killing hundreds of Russian mercenaries (if the reports in European papers today are true) last week in that attack.

    Or perhaps the Americans will leave just like in Iraq with no real outcomes achieved but I am not so sure tbh as they stakes are higher because of 1) The Golan and protecting Israeli interests and 2) Russian and Iranian influence in the region.

    Anyway we can park this for a few years and see what happens post conflict.

    But I am convinced if Bashar is gone, the Russians are out.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Syrian Civil War: News #17

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:14 pm

    crod wrote:“Author may be concerned about partition of Syria but that is Syrian issue. Russian interests are on the coastline and are secured and no longer dependent on Syrian territorial integrity.”

    Russian interests will turn to shit if Syria is broken up, surely you see that right? Russia won’t have shit of the coastline as the political landscape will be changed forever in Syria and the Russians will be kicked out; one of the main reasons the Americans are planning such an outcome (splitting the country up) - to reduce Russian influence within their sphere of the ME. Russia will leave and won’t fight America over it, we all know that to be true just like America won’t take on Russia over Crimea/Ukraine.

    The status quo will not remain post conflict, people on here are far underestimating the US here, they will do as they will....as always.

    They had no problem killing hundreds of Russian mercenaries (if the reports in European papers today are true) last week in that attack.

    Or perhaps the Americans will leave just like in Iraq with no real outcomes achieved but I am not so sure tbh as they stakes are higher because of 1) The Golan and protecting Israeli interests and 2) Russian and Iranian influence in the region.

    Anyway we can park this for a few years and see what happens post conflict.

    But I am convinced if Bashar is gone, the Russians are out.

    One has to be a special kind of dumb to believe Russian mercenaries were killed in those airstrikes. Even more dumb to believe it was hundreds.

    Gotta need the evidence.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Syrian Civil War: News #17

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:48 pm

    ATLASCUB wrote:..........South Korea is not a problem? ............

    Yes, it's a massive problem...for China.

    Not for Russia.



    crod wrote:..............Russian interests will turn to shit if Syria is broken up, surely you see that right? ...

    Syrian yes, Iranian yes, Russian definitely not.

    Don't conflate Iranian interests with Russian ones. Hezbollah learns that painful lesson daily.


    crod wrote:..............Russia won’t have shit of the coastline as the political landscape will be changed forever in Syria.....


    Russia has coastline in the bag and is more likely to keep it after 50-75 year period expires if they skip dealing with middleman and just deal with very grateful locals.

    People's Republic of Latakia, has nice ring to it, eh?


    crod wrote:..............and the Russians will be kicked out....

    Oh really? Do tell how since I didn't have a good laugh in several hours. Laughing


    crod wrote:.............. Russia will leave and won’t fight America over it, we all know that to be true just like America won’t take on Russia over Crimea/Ukraine......

    If deal is to give Syria in exchange for Ukraine  Russia will rubber-stamp it ASAP and laugh all the way to geopolitical bank.



    crod wrote:..............The status quo will not remain post conflict, people on here are far underestimating the US here, they will do as they will....as always....


    Ad that is uniquely Iranian problem. They dragged their feet and wasted years trying to get into Golan and now they have Uncle Sam next door. Congrats!

    Also, with USA fondling Kurds you have Turkey being way more cooperative towards Russia than otherwise and on issues way more important than some desert wasteland. Another in the bag.



    crod wrote:..............They had no problem killing hundreds of Russian mercenaries (if the reports in European papers today are true) last week in that attack....

    Oh, it's already ''hundreds''? Oh my how those numbers grow when retelling the story. I am sure it will be ''thousands'' by weekend. lol1  

    You do realize that mercenaries are expendable? That is sole reason why they get paid big bucks.


    crod wrote:......stakes are higher because of 1) The Golan and protecting Israeli interests and 2) Russian and Iranian influence in the region......

    Again, you are conflating Russian and Iranian interests. Russia covered theirs and they end at Euphrates (probably even before Euphrates but it's a nice natural barrier)

    Iran OTOH is stumbling like a moron after completely dropping the ball. But that's their problem.


    crod wrote:..............But I am convinced if Bashar is gone, the Russians are out.

    Since when are we on first name basis with that guy?

    Russians have been making it very clear since 2011 that they will drop him like hot potato under right conditions. So I doubt that they don't have double digit number of replacements lined up.

    Vann7

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    Re: Syrian Civil War: News #17

    Post  Vann7 on Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:27 pm

    Russia have red lines too.. and if Russia military base  is hit "by mistake" by a NATO combat plane.. or by a NATO Cruise missile and many soldiers killed. THis will be a clear act of war on Russia and Russia will respond in the best way
    possible that could allow Syria to recover more territory. they will bomb the hell of all American positions in Syria and will use this incident as a justification for closing the airspace to NATO coalition and permanently
    Ending their presence there.. Russia already have such scenarios studied.. and the retaliation too..

    This means.. that any attack on Russian base by NATO will only mean the end of NATO operations in Syria...
    The base in eastern syria will be bombed to hell.. the base in Kurdish territory too.. and if americans continues
    attacking , then warships will be sink.. And then negotiations will start to avoid a major continuation of the war..

    In such scenario.. Russia and Americans will lose soldiers.. but Syria will win back most of its territory..
    because Russia will now end any agreement /deconflictions zones ,were Americans are protecting.
    Then in the end ,the result will be Syria restoring most of its territorial integrity.. and Americans getting
    a bloody nose...and forced to leave Syria.. because they started the aggression . The major protest in US Cities
    demanding US to leave Syria.. etc etc..   The Public Opinion is on Russia favor.. in Syria.. This was one of the major
    reasons people voted for trump.. Trump have very little control over the PEntagon and will try to distance from who ever gave the order to Attack a Russian base .  I think Putin will want ,even in the case it needs to fight US military..
    to help Trump to hold power.. and blame any war or terrorism ,on rogue players withing US pentagon and Washinton DC. trying to sabotage the agreements that Russia and US had in Syria.

    So Russia can use any attack on its forces or military base to justify, taking more territory away of NATO backed
    terrorist ,while at the same time leaving a bloody nose to NATO in Syria.  Is all carefully calculated risk..  
    Russia military have to plan in advance all the things that could go wrong and all the retaliation and its consequences.
    All IF this or that scenarios ,are studied..  But i repeat.. Russia will do everything ,including a temporary limited war with Americans or Turkey or Israel if that is what it takes to make Syria hold its territory.
    The good news is that Trump do not want any of this intervension in Syria to happen.. he is calling for ending the war in Syria openly in twitter. You never say anything like that before under any President ,either Obama/Clinton Or Bush. This means that the chances of a major nuclear war between US are very low.. under Trump administration... Trump is opposing the war in Syria ,clearly on Twitter.. he is not promoting the continuation of that.. So the warmongers in the Pentagon will face major obstacles ,including the sabotage of Trump on their operations.. So in my opinion Syria already won ,to save its nation from being totally overrun.. Now it needs only to hold ,the territory they have and capture more to avoid the partitioning of it by ALqaeda and ISIS controlled zones.

    SO any attack on Russia will have major consequences on NATO controlled positions in Syria.. will be kicked from there. I have no doubts of it. With IRAN-IRAQ-Hezbola in Syria and Russia help.. they can kick US,Israel and Turkey from any place they control there. and reverse Kurds gains.

    In the end the syrian conflict is not a war of NATO top powers and allies against syria.. but against Russia. (turkey could be an exception). So Russia will prefer to Fight NATO in syria and not on its own territory . IF NATO wants war with Russia , then Syria is a better battlefield to fight.. because if NATO attack Russia main land ,then Nukes will be flying to send a clear message to the west. that they have crossed a Red line with Russia.

    In the end Russia goals is to freeze the conflict as much as possible ,while streghtening Syria military and economy..
    and territory control.. this is why is important for Russia all this peace negotiations meetings.. SO that Americans
    can't influence civil unrest there and partition it. in the long run , US and NATO will have to leave.. And if IRAN can create a land bridge from its territory to Syria ,with IRAQ help... (something they could be working). and Russia holds
    there aiding from the air , then Syria will be near impossible to break ,through military means by NATO. Because in the land , the manpower will be in Syria side. the fact that NATO is moving ISIS to afganistan ,means they already aware
    they will never be able to break the Syrian Government and over run them.. So Partitioning of Syria from kurds zones is now their goal. But it will be a weak partition.. since Kurds will depend a lot of Russia and Syria help to deal with Turkey.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Syrian Civil War: News #17

    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:32 am

    https://scotthumor.wordpress.com/2018/02/13/wagner-private-military-company-could-be-a-code-name-for-israels-black-op/

    People who still believe in the dead Russians bullshit needs to read this article. Actually, everyone should.

    It goes through a whole amount about how Wagner group is bullshit and who possibly is behind it.
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    eehnie

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    Re: Syrian Civil War: News #17

    Post  eehnie on Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:38 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    ATLASCUB wrote:..........South Korea is not a problem? ............

    Yes, it's a massive problem...for China.

    Not for Russia.




    crod wrote:..............Russian interests will turn to shit if Syria is broken up, surely you see that right? ...

    Syrian yes, Iranian yes, Russian definitely not.

    Don't conflate Iranian interests with Russian ones. Hezbollah learns that painful lesson daily.


    crod wrote:..............Russia won’t have shit of the coastline as the political landscape will be changed forever in Syria.....


    Russia has coastline in the bag and is more likely to keep it after 50-75 year period expires if they skip dealing with middleman and just deal with very grateful locals.

    People's Republic of Latakia, has nice ring to it, eh?



    crod wrote:..............and the Russians will be kicked out....

    Oh really? Do tell how since I didn't have a good laugh in several hours. Laughing


    crod wrote:.............. Russia will leave and won’t fight America over it, we all know that to be true just like America won’t take on Russia over Crimea/Ukraine......

    If deal is to give Syria in exchange for Ukraine  Russia will rubber-stamp it ASAP and laugh all the way to geopolitical bank.



    crod wrote:..............The status quo will not remain post conflict, people on here are far underestimating the US here, they will do as they will....as always....


    Ad that is uniquely Iranian problem. They dragged their feet and wasted years trying to get into Golan and now they have Uncle Sam next door. Congrats!

    Also, with USA fondling Kurds you have Turkey being way more cooperative towards Russia than otherwise and on issues way more important than some desert wasteland. Another in the bag.



    crod wrote:..............They had no problem killing hundreds of Russian mercenaries (if the reports in European papers today are true) last week in that attack....

    Oh, it's already ''hundreds''? Oh my how those numbers grow when retelling the story. I am sure it will be ''thousands'' by weekend. lol1  

    You do realize that mercenaries are expendable? That is sole reason why they get paid big bucks.


    crod wrote:......stakes are higher because of 1) The Golan and protecting Israeli interests and 2) Russian and Iranian influence in the region......

    Again, you are conflating Russian and Iranian interests. Russia covered theirs and they end at Euphrates (probably even before Euphrates but it's a nice natural barrier)

    Iran OTOH is stumbling like a moron after completely dropping the ball. But that's their problem.



    crod wrote:..............But I am convinced if Bashar is gone, the Russians are out.

    Since when are we on first name basis with that guy?

    Russians have been making it very clear since 2011 that they will drop him like hot potato under right conditions.
    So I doubt that they don't have double digit number of replacements lined up.

    This is pure Lambieshit. Honoring the well deserved decoration in his signature.

    PapaDragon wrote:big bucks.

    You are more US than a Buick. Or than a Buck if you prefer.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Syrian Civil War: News #17

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:21 am

    At first the fun part a French Micron regime is on footsteps of Napoleon. Returning from Moscow trip? or its just to test SCALPs?

    Macron: France will strike a military blow to Syria, if it is proved the use of chemical weapons

    PARIS, February 14th. / TASS /. France is ready to immediately launch a military strike against Syria if evidence is provided of the use by the Syrian army of chemical weapons against the civilian population. This was announced on Tuesday by the President of the Republic Emmanuel Macron, handed over to Agence France-Presse .

    "We will strike at the place where it would have been committed, or where it would have been organized." The Red Line will be observed, "he said, responding to a meeting with journalists of the presidential pool about the possible response of France to use in Syria chemical weapons.

    Подробнее на ТАСС:
    http://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/4955926






    and her interesting stuff about effectiveness of latest Israeli aggression against SAR



    Anti-aircraft complexes repulsed the attack
    Recent incidents in the skies of Syria showed the combat capability of the air defense of the Arab Republic
    https://iz.ru/707929/aleksei-ramm-nikolai-surkov/zenitnye-kompleksy-otrazili-ataku


    Not only S-200 and Buk anti-aircraft missile systems (SAM) but also SAM systems Pantsir-S were involved in repelling recent Israeli raids on targets in Syria. The main objectives of the systems of Soviet and Russian production were the newest cruise missiles. According to experts, during the recent battles of the air defense of the Arab Republic has demonstrated the ability to repel massive attacks and cope with very complex targets.

    As Izvestiya was told by a source in the Syrian General Staff, on February 10, the air defense forces of the country had to repel a massive attack using air-launched cruise missiles. The main targets of the Syrian antiaircraft guns were not aircraft, but air-to-surface missiles launched outside the country's airspace. This information was confirmed to representatives of the Russian military department and the military-industrial complex.

    "As a result of the first raid, eight of the 11 Israeli missiles were destroyed, and in the second attack of seven missiles - five," the Syrian officer explained. - The only airplane that entered the airspace of the country was shot down by our anti-aircraft missile system.

    The interlocutor of "Izvestia", however, refused to specify exactly how the SAM was hit by the multipurpose F-16I Sufa fighter that fell on the territory of Israel. He also did not confirm or deny the information that it was a S-200 SAM, but noted that during the raid on February 10, all Syrian calculations operated independently. According to the officer, this would not have been achieved without the assistance of Russian specialists who restored the technical readiness of the S-125, S-200 and Buk anti-aircraft missile systems, and also re-trained the Syrian military.

    The February 10 incident was not the first in the last few days. This was reported to Izvestiya by a source in the General Staff of Syria, information was confirmed by interlocutors in the Russian military department.

    - On February 7, the Israeli Air Force aircraft violated Syria's state border and launched eight air-to-surface missiles at the building of the National Science Center in the city of Salamia, in the province of Ham, "the Izvestia source said. - Then the missiles were destroyed by the "Pantsir-S", S-200 and "Buk" complexes. The remaining two fell in the area of ​​the National Science Center, without causing significant damage.


    According to Israeli Defense Ministry officials, the situation worsened after around four o'clock in the morning on Saturday, February 10, the Israeli military spotted an Iranian drone flying from Jordan. The reconnaissance UAV was intercepted by the attack helicopter Apache. The Israeli Air Force launched an air raid to destroy the station for controlling the drone. She was in the depths of Syria in the desert - not far from the city of Palmyra.

    During the raid the Syrian air defense forces resisted stubbornly. One of the Israeli F-16I Sufa was shot down by an anti-aircraft missile (presumably, the S-200 complex), but the pilot and the weapon operator had time to catapult. One of the crew was seriously injured. This was the first since 2006, the case of the destruction of the Israeli aircraft with enemy fire.

    As former Lieutenant-General Alexander Gorkov, commander of the anti-aircraft missile forces of the Russian Federation, told Izvestiya that the air defense of the Arab Republic showed high efficiency in repelling the attacks on February 7 and 10.

    - Israel used to strike cruise missiles. These are very complex goals, performing a flight at a low altitude, "the expert said. - To intercept them, not only prepared calculations are required, but also centralized, as well as a high level of management. Of the 26 targets, it was intercepted 19. It turns out that the Syrian air defense demonstrated an efficiency close to 0.8. And this is a very high figure.

    All in all, Syria's air defense forces have eight divisions of S-200 SAM systems, supplied from the USSR, and about 20 Buk complexes of various modifications. The last major batch of eight "Bukov" versions of M2E was transferred to Damascus in 2011. "Buk" air defense system allows to hit air targets at a range from 3 to 45 km and at altitudes from 15 m to 25 km.

    In addition, in 2013-2015, Russia supplied Damascus with more than three dozen "Pantsir" missile systems, including the latest modification of the missile system. The missile weaponry of the complex fires air targets at ranges up to 20 km and at altitudes up to 15 km. Cannon - hits planes flying at extremely low altitudes, helicopters suddenly appearing because of shelters in the near zone, as well as drones and even ground targets.

    As for the F-16I Sufa ("storm" - in Hebrew), one of which was shot down on February 10, they began to flow into the Israeli Air Force in the mid-2000s. The main objective of these two-seat multipurpose aircraft is to strike at well-defended targets in the depths of the enemy's territory in the face of strong anti-aircraft countermeasures. In the arsenal of these machines - Israeli cruise missiles "Delilah", able to barrage in a given area and hit not only static but also moving targets.


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    Isos

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    Re: Syrian Civil War: News #17

    Post  Isos on Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:55 am

    So the capacities of even old systems can be very good if well operated by a competant crew against modern fighters.

    Weired that russians who don't use s-200 since long ago have to train an army that use it every day.

    Not surprising that Syrian lose in air engagements against israel ...

    But what would it be if S-400 operated by russian start shooting down f16 and f15 ?? They would score 1 kill for every missile hahaha
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Syrian Civil War: News #17

    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:10 am

    Isos wrote:So the capacities of even old systems can be very good if well operated by a competant crew against modern fighters.

    Weired that russians who don't use s-200 since long ago have to train an army that use it every day.

    Not surprising that Syrian lose in air engagements against israel ...

    But what would it be if S-400 operated by russian start shooting down f16 and f15 ?? They would score 1 kill for every missile hahaha

    modest updates can turn plenty of old systems into something very effective.  It was speculated it was either S-75 or it was S-200 that took down the F-16I.  Anyway, newer radar systems, with newer command links and better automation through the upgrade of computers at a command control station could turn these old AD systems into an effective system. Hence the Pechora 2 upgrade is an example.  Very effective.

    But yes, competent crew makes a huge difference.

    But, one thing to take into account that most people forget. Even with all of those added in, doesn't mean much if the Israeli jets fly out of the range of the AD systems missile ranges, and launch their missiles from afar. These long range missiles make sense in the sense of either placing them closer to the areas were they can shoot down the enemy near their Airbase when taking off/landing or if the enemy was foolish enough to fly within the range of the missile, which in this case, the F-16 pilot did just that. If Israel just kept lobbing missiles from within Israel territory or from Lebanon, nothing the Syrian AD could do. Hence why they weren't able to shoot them down before. The Israeli's just kept doing it from safety of a safe airspace away from Syria. So in this regard, the defense systems now have to be busy shooting down the missiles. S-400 is rather far away, and the missile 48N6DM may have long range, but it isn't enough to reach into Israel, or for that matter, central Lebanon (correct me if I am wrong on my geography here), and so systems like Pantsir and Tor become rather more important than the long range missiles.

    Long Range AD's make sense now as a method to provide support to the airforce in their attempts at protecting the airspace. A method of having a condensed structure so that when enemy fighter jets are busy against your own jets, your air defense systems then can provide backup for your own jets in terms of the air defense roll. But if it was just them vs the enemy trying to engage within your own country, then it only makes sense to have mobile structure easy to set up and ready to go, and wait till the enemy is already in the country and within the engagement zone, before turning on and using your systems. Otherwise, they are sitting ducks to PGM's from ranges much further away from the AD's kill zone.

    This goes both ways. hence why Russia is becoming very formidable with its Pantsir + S-400 package structure, where even the US admits its a near perfect mix to have an almost impenetrable IADS.

    But that is a whole different conversations altogether.
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    crod

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    Re: Syrian Civil War: News #17

    Post  crod on Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:27 pm

    As I said it was reported by media outlets...couldn’t care nor give 2 shits about Russians being killed tbh, not my concern, I’m not Russian; soldier or mercenary you get paid to be there. Just like I don’t give 2 shits about Iranians etc.

    Your little republic dream....well that has me lmao, nice one buddy.

    We’ll just have to wait and see how it turns out...but my money is on the Yankees getting what they want with the Russians playing second fiddle.

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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Syrian Civil War: News #17

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:22 pm

    crod wrote:As I said it was reported by media outlets...couldn’t care nor give 2 shits about Russians being killed tbh, not my concern, I’m not Russian; soldier or mercenary you get paid to be there. Just like I don’t give 2 shits about Iranians etc.

    Your little republic dream....well that has me lmao, nice one buddy.

    We’ll just have to wait and see how it turns out...but my money is on the Yankees getting what they want with the Russians playing second fiddle.


    and what do Yanks want? this changed over time: first all Syria, then overthrow Assad now only little part with Kurds?

    BTW same media outlets in Ukraine that 4 years talks about imminent  "Russian aggression" just about to start? Or media reporting about Saddam's nukes?

    yavar

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    Re: Syrian Civil War: News #17

    Post  yavar on Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:29 pm

    avatar
    kvs

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    Re: Syrian Civil War: News #17

    Post  kvs on Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:58 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:https://scotthumor.wordpress.com/2018/02/13/wagner-private-military-company-could-be-a-code-name-for-israels-black-op/

    People who still believe in the dead Russians bullshit needs to read this article. Actually, everyone should.

    It goes through a whole amount about how Wagner group is bullshit and who possibly is behind it.

    Excellent investigative article. Once again we have the same cookie cutter BS about Russian army in Donbass without a single
    photo or video to prove it being applied in Syria. We'll claim 600 dead but won't show you one dead Russian. How come I
    can regularly see cell phone snapshots of dead jihaids in Syria on Twitter channels. Come on you lying sacks of shit, put up
    or shut up.

    The west has really degenerated over the last 40 years. These days propaganda does not even have to have logical
    consistency. Proof by assertion is enough to have all the NATO bootlick lemmings run around trumpeting their "victory".
    NATO is in for a shock of Biblical proportions when it decides to invade Russia.
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    kvs

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    Re: Syrian Civil War: News #17

    Post  kvs on Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:00 pm

    crod wrote:As I said it was reported by media outlets...couldn’t care nor give 2 shits about Russians being killed tbh, not my concern, I’m not Russian; soldier or mercenary you get paid to be there. Just like I don’t give 2 shits about Iranians etc.

    Your little republic dream....well that has me lmao, nice one buddy.

    We’ll just have to wait and see how it turns out...but my money is on the Yankees getting what they want with the Russians playing second fiddle.


    Take a hike, troll.

    Vann7

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    Re: Syrian Civil War: News #17

    Post  Vann7 on Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:11 pm

    Finally some some warnings from Syria to US/NATO Coalition in Syria.

    The Army will down any jet that launches an assault on Syria and that is not a mere threat…




    We call on the United Nations to investigate the actions and practices of the United States, which threaten the territorial integrity, sovereignty and political independence of Syria and aim to liquidate the Syrian people, contradicting the objectives and principles of the UN. The Army will down any jet that launches an assault on Syria and that is not a mere threat… we are able to get rid of terrorists when the West stops supporting them,” Mikdad said.


    How many wants to bet is  a matter of time ,Americans will get Combat jets shot down?
    They will use drones first... but Syrian army ,will not only strike the drones.. but my guess is they will
    target a combat jet ,flying far inside Kurdish zone too. to send a message. if Americans targets again their military
    that is..

    Now the pressure is on the side of the pentagon.. They will know that now gloves are off...
    and it will be very humiliating for them to get a modern plane shut down.. my guess is US military will now rely
    in drones to test the waters of Syria.  Iran might even encourage a trap for US planes.. To lure their airforce into a place and then Boom.. plane down.. do i give 1 week from now..for a US combat plane shotdown. When Syria
    says in public this ..is because they got the green light from Russia.


    https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201802141061657421-syrian-army-down-jet/

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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Syrian Civil War: News #17

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:14 pm

    Tisk tisk Assad allowing the turks to dig in and set up checks points along Idlib, now anymore advances in that area will have to be over dead turkish soldiers.

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    Re: Syrian Civil War: News #17

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