Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

They have bases in over 800 countries world wide with inflight refueling aircraft distributed around the world ready for use. India does not.- nor does she need to; those in India & on her friends islands in the Indian ocean r enough. They can even order a few IL-96 tankers &/ convert some C-17s for a change. wrote:Russia won't agree to BrahMos to be used on F-18 so India will be forced to buy more US ammunition.- true, & there r other non-Western or Indian armaments they could carry.
And they will gain no Airforce advantage at all from this- they could turn them into F-111 successor like Australia did. The MiG-25 had attack variants, so it wasn't good only as an interceptor or recon plane. Now its successor the MiG-31 is being adopted to carry ASAT & Kinzhal missiles. India could adopt F-18E/Fs for aero ballistic/ASAT missiles as well.
At least they r not spending more on Rafales or F-15Es. India thinks she gets the best of both worlds by buying influence & operating different planes before deciding to buy more types that suits her better & before producing her own counterparts, if ever.  

they could turn them into F-111 successor like Australia did.

The MiG-25 had attack variants, so it wasn't good only as an interceptor or recon plane.

Now its successor the MiG-31 is being adopted to carry ASAT & Kinzhal missiles. India could adopt F-18E/Fs for aero ballistic/ASAT missiles as well.

At least they r not spending more on Rafales or F-15Es.

India thinks she gets the best of both worlds by buying influence & operating different planes before deciding to buy more types that suits her better & before producing her own counterparts, if ever.  

GarryB wrote:

they could turn them into F-111 successor like Australia did.

The F-18 has nothing like the performance of the F-111... they are just dreaming if they pretend that any version of the F-18 could even approach the performance of the F-111.-they can be buddy refueled id u r referring to their shortage range, & be given terrain avoidance radar/IR sensors for low level penetrations. 

The Navy's F/A-18 Super Hornet Gets Even More Super

There was no multirole version of the MiG-25... there was the RB model bomber, Recon models and interceptor models..-true, they could be made multirole, & the F-18E/F/Gs r fighter-interceptors, anti-surface/ground attack, EW, & tankers- i.e. multirole.
the Su-30MKI is probably faster and higher flying than any F-18 model...if you are going to blow that sort of money on new planes then they might as well buy more Su-30MKIs.-true, but even if cheaper, how soon will the new planes arrive if ordered today?
plus what aeroballistic or ASAT weapons do you think the US will share with India?-she can develop her own, from present SRBMs & AAMs.
What I am trying to say is that it is OK to try to bribe them but remember they are petty little children who, in a fit of rage wont care how many planes you bought... when they are angry they will think of all the extra planes you didn't buy...the Americans are not stupid... they will want money up front and clauses where they win even if India changes their mind...-that's why they leased them to minimize any future potential losses. Later, they'll bargain for better terms & may get them- in fact, the US needs India more than vice versa as the latter can get in bed with Russia again, even if China is shown the door.
the main performance difference was because of the extra weight the Hornet could operate with when cat launched but take that away, and I really don't see an enormous difference... certainly not enough to justify the enormous price difference...-they hope to get a CATOBAR CV/N; in the meantime training & evals can be done on the STOBAR CV. The US may even transfer the CVN-68 Nimitz &/ CVN-69 later to them, allegedly "for scrap".

F-111 is a bomber. F-18 a multirole jet. I would rather have the f-18 than f-111. F-111 can't face other jets and would be easy pray for old aircraft like mig-23 or mig-21.

-they can be buddy refueled id u r referring to their shortage range, & be given terrain avoidance radar/IR sensors for low level flying.

.-true, but the F-18E/F/Gs r fighter-interceptors, anti-surface/ground attack, EW, & tankers- i.e. multirole.

-true, but even if cheaper, how soon will new of them arrive?

-she can develop her own, from present SRBMs & AAMs.

.-that's why they leased them to minimize any future potential losses. Later, they'll bargain for better terms & may get them- in fact, the US needs India more than vice versa as the latter can get in bed with Russia again, even if China is shown the door.

-they hope to get a CATOBAR CV/N; in the meantime training & evals can be done on the STOBAR CV. The US may even transfer the CVN-68 Nimitz to them "for scrap".

India should stop the madness and come to Russia and tell them to build a navalized su 57E. It is smaller and lighter than Flankers. It has best in class take-off and landing distance even with the phase 1 engine. (I am not 100% sure on that)

Navalizing the su-57 would take some years. Then the production line would be full of russian orders and india would have to wait quite some time.

The best they have to offer is mig-35 for the indian carrier as a quick solution.

GarryB wrote:

To achieve F-111 flight range you would need to refuel them going out and coming back... which probably means a 3 to one ratio (ie three F-18s to do the job of one F-111)...

F/A-18E/F has 11 hardpoints vs. 9 on F-111C. The missiles & bombs have evolved since all F-111s retired- they r more accurate & don't need to be as heavy as before. Also, F-18E/F/Gs don't need fighter escorts & jammers, unlike the F-111s that had them during their famous 1986 raid on Libya.  

..if India wants to buy some Russian assembled Su-30MKIs they would probably get them as fast as they could get F-18s from the US... and likely much much cheaper.-leasing F-18s will expedite it & cost less than buying & waiting for Su-30MKIs. If they like them, they could take their time negotiating their purchase before ordering some more.
F-16s are about 130 million each... F-18s are probably going to cost 180-200 million each..-depending on the # ordered.
Sorry... I forgot such things were so easy...-they developed complicated things before & could get help from Russia that needs Indian allies & could use $ for other projects. 
Yeah... India might be the only country in the world the US doesn't want to screw over...-at least for the next 2-4 years for sure.
They were bleating about the cost of the Russian carrier with airwing they bought for 2.4 billion... a Nimitz class carrier would cost 1 billion a year in operational costs alone...-they could also fly off USN CVNs in the IO/W. Pac. showing the flag to the PRC, & risking their lives intead of US pilots. Maybe that's the long term plan!
when they buy F-18s the US will tell them to cancel their S-400 purchase or else...-they wouldn't even allow their lease if that was the case. The Indians will just buy more American products or sell less to the US to avoid that ultimatum. Being in bed together makes scratching each others' back, not to mention assuming the 69 pose, natural.  

F/A-18E/F has 11 hardpoints vs. 9 on F-111C .

The missiles & bombs have evolved since all F-111s retired- they r more accurate & don't need to be as heavy as before.

Also, F-18E/F/Gs don't need fighter escorts & jammers, unlike the F-111s that had them during their famous 1986 raid on Libya .

-leasing F-18s will expedite it & cost less than buying & waiting for Su-30MKIs.

.-depending on the # ordered.

.-they developed complicated things before & could get help from Russia that needs Indian allies & could use $ for other projects.

.-at least for the next 2-4 years for sure.

.-they could also fly off USN CVNs in the IO/W. Pac. showing the flag to the PRC, & risking their lives intead of US pilots. Maybe that's the long term plan!

.-they wouldn't even allow their lease if that was the case. The Indians will just buy more American products or sell less to the US to avoid that ultimatum. Being in bed together makes scratching each others' back, not to mention assuming the 69 pose, natural.

GarryB wrote:

F/A-18E/F has 11 hardpoints vs. 9 on F-111C .

Funny... you would normally put max payload weight... and considering three of those F-18 weapon pylons will have external fuel tanks...- not if if they have tanker support &/r CFT.s

The missiles & bombs have evolved since all F-111s retired- they r more accurate & don't need to be as heavy as before.

Which is good for the F-111 as it means they wont need as many and they will be lighter...-moot point, they r in boneyards & r not coming back.

and of course you have heard of the jammer model of the F-111... EF-111A Raven...-But on that raid, USN EA-6Bs were used. 

The potential of the F-111 was barely touched... it could have had the massively upgraded engines they fitted to the F-14D... as well as much better avionics... but the Aussies couldn't afford it and the US was using the F-15E.-no doubt it was a good bird but even if its production continued, it would be too costly even for the US ME allies. It's too specialized to be used w/o escorts, adding to its operational costs & risks.
The irony is that an F-14D with serious upgrades would be better than the fighter models of the Hornet too...- true, but the trend is "multirole fighter"-the F-14 was designed as interceptor & not very well suited for ground attack, even though it performed well in Afghanistan in that role. They figured it was more feasible not to upgrade/produce them as the F-18E/Fs could fit that role & be exported too. The era of VGWs on fighters is almost over- the Tornadoes & Su-24s r on the death row now. 
there is no urgency for the F-18...- still, they have the $ for a different toy that can make some folks happy if they r leased. 
For use on carriers the numbers wont be very high which will mean a very small group of aircraft so purchase price and spare parts will be expensive and not common or shared with any other part of the Indian military...- so were their Harriers & MiG-25s, not to mention their new Rafales & CH-47s. Malaysia & Indonesia operate Su-30s + F-18s & F-16s+ Su-30s, respectively- why much richer India can't or shouldn't if she wants to?  Naval fighters give more bang for the buck as they r on mobile platforms. Even Swedes which can't afford CVs designed their multirole Drakkens, Viggens & Grippens for STOL, to be dispersed & operated from roads.

They diversify their purchases because they don't want to be controlled by a foreign power... how does that balance with operating their aircraft off American ships...what are the chances of India getting its way?- if the goal is to contain the PRC, they'll work hand in glove.
They wont refuse a lease deal... they will get it all signed up and India financially committed and then demand they stop buying S-400s... that is how it works.- they probably got as many S-400s as needed by now, & in time can make a similar system; if not, they can even pay the VMF to keep a few ships off their coasts with S-400 on board.

- not if if they have tanker support &/r CFT.s

.-moot point, they r in boneyards & r not coming back.

.-no doubt it was a good bird but even if its production continued, it would be too costly even for the US ME allies. It's too specialized to be used w/o escorts, adding to its operational costs & risks.

- true, but the trend is "multirole fighter"-the F-14 was designed as interceptor & not very well suited for ground attack, even though it performed well in Afghanistan in that role. They figured it was more feasible not to upgrade/produce them as the F-18E/Fs could fit that role & be exported too. The era of VGWs on fighters is almost over- the Tornadoes & Su-24s r on the death row now.

- still, they have the $ for a different toy that can make some folks happy if they r leased.

- so were their Harriers & MiG-25s, not to mention their new Rafales & CH-57s.

Sweden can't afford CVs but designed her multirole Drakkens, Viggens & Grippens for STOL, to be dispersed & operated from roads.

- if the goal is to contain the PRC, they'll work hand in glove.

- they probably got as many S-400s as needed by now, & in time can make a similar system; if not, they can even pay the VMF to keep a few ships off their coasts with S-400 on board.

GarryB wrote:

- not if if they have tanker support &/r CFT.s

Tanker support for operations in Pakistan and China would be too vulnerable...-[url=https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a18211702/fa-18-super-hornet-longer-legs-fuel-tanks-range/#:~:text=The problem%3A the U.S. Navy's,munitions to hunt ASBM launchers.][/url]CFTs give them 129 nmi extra range[url=https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a18211702/fa-18-super-hornet-longer-legs-fuel-tanks-range/#:~:text=The problem%3A the U.S. Navy's,munitions to hunt ASBM launchers.][/url] & tanker F-18s for buddy refueling can carry AAMs too.

F-18s are expensive and they already have Su-30MKIs which is essentially the F-15E that replaced the F-111 in US use... the F-18 is what their navy used to replaced their strike model...-the Su-30MKIs & F-15Es r not navalized, & the IN wants a multirole fighter bigger & better than its MiG-29K or MiG-35s Russia offered.

if India want a more capable naval fighter then the Su-57 should be what they are looking at... rather than a plane that was in service before the MiG-29 or Su-27 was in service...-they don't want to be seen as close to Russia as lips & teeth; if nothing else, by getting more Western arms, they maintain non-aligned status with RF while appearing tilting to the West to unnerve the PRC. The F-18E/F Block III came out just recently & is a lot more capable than the legacy F-18C/Ds.
Bullshit... F-111s, Tornados and Su-24s could just as easily be upgraded to fully multirole performance but they weren't because at the time they wanted to make new planes...-how long would those upgraded F-14s have left on their beat up airframes? That factor alone was detrimental enough to get rid of them. The old Iranian F-14s don't operate at sea & the environmental conditions there r similar to Arizona where the DMAFB aircraft storage is located.
There is no reason why the F-14 design could not have been upgraded and improved to be effective today...-if it was put back in production, I have no doubt it would be offered to India by now. But future F-18E/F Block IV, V & VI would be even more advanced & if India gets Block IIIs, they too would be upgradable.
Yeah, Microsoft wants people to rent their software... do you think it is because they want to make it cheaper for the user? Or do they think they can make more money that way...-regardless, right or wrong, the Indians think they r getting more for their $, otherwise we wouldn't be discussing it. It's their right to make mistakes & pay for them.
They got messed around with their Harriers and the Rafales are the most expensive aircraft anywhere... they had better win them a lot of wars to justify the cost.-or prevent long wars.
So you if you think planes that can operate from roads are as good as carrier based planes then why waste time with aircraft as expensive as Hornets?-their roads r bad, & their CV/Ns need fighters.
Indian does not have a navy that is powerful enough to benefit from a carrier while at the same time effectively be able to protect a carrier operationally anywhere near enemy held areas... which means to keep it safe they will be keeping it further away from the action than ground based aircraft could be operating...-that's where their AF, MPA & future AShC/BM forces could assist them, at least until they get more ships & subs.
It has taken them 40 years to develop a medium range SAM that was based on the SA-6 and is not as good as the first model BUK (SA-11).-since they mastered it, new such project sh/would go smoother & faster. It's not a problem in series.

Isos wrote: The best they have to offer is mig-35 for the indian carrier as a quick solution.

RTN wrote:

Isos wrote: The best they have to offer is mig-35 for the indian carrier as a quick solution.

The best they can offer is a naval version of the Su-57.

Russia sold Mig 29K to India even before they placed order for the same aircraft. U.S too offered P-8 Poseidon to India before procuring the same aircraft for the U.S Navy.

& tanker F-18s for buddy refueling can carry AAMs too.

-the Su-30MKIs & F-15Es r not navalized, & the IN wants a multirole fighter bigger & better than its MiG-29K or MiG-35s Russia offered.

-they don't want to be seen as close to Russia as lips & teeth; if nothing else, by getting more Western arms, they maintain non-aligned status with RF while appearing tilting to the West to unnerve the PRC. The F-18E/F Block III came out just recently & is a lot more capable than the legacy F-18C/Ds.

-how long would those upgraded F-14s have left on their beat up airframes? That factor alone was detrimental enough to get rid of them. The old Iranian F-14s don't operate at sea & the environmental conditions there r similar to Arizona where the DMAFB aircraft storage is located.

regardless, right or wrong, the Indians think they r getting more for their $, otherwise we wouldn't be discussing it. It's their right to make mistakes & pay for them.

-or prevent long wars.

-their roads r bad, & their CV/Ns need fighters.

-that's where their AF, MPA & future AShC/BM forces could assist them, at least until they get more ships & subs.

-since they mastered it, new such project sh/would go smoother & faster. It's not a problem in series.

The best they can offer is a naval version of the Su-57.

Russia sold Mig 29K to India even before they placed order for the same aircraft.

Su-57 production line is also full and tgey will have to wait to create the naval version which should take some years and also wait that the 78 russian fighters are produced.

Tsavo Lion wrote:But future F-18E/F Block IV, V & VI would be even more advanced & if India gets Block IIIs, they too would be upgradable.[/b]

Isos wrote:Su-57K doesn't exist. Indian carriers do and they want planes on it as soon as it is on water ready to patrol.

GarryB wrote:

& tanker F-18s for buddy refueling can carry AAMs too.

You are not getting it... buying F-18s is not a good idea because having to buy extra and also inflight refuelling tankers to upgrade their range performance to something close to the Su-30MKI fighters they already have makes no sense... it makes rather more sense to just buy more Su-30MKI.- if this trend continues, they may soon become bona fide US & UK allies with the loss of Russian arms sales & support. That's also why India started buying more Western aircraft in the last few years. 

The F-18 is not bigger nor better than MiG-35s.- the 1st is bigger than the 2nd; its range/combat radius is less, but with CFTs, 125/62.5 nmi should be added, & UAV tankers US is developing & testing would cost less:

• 
  Length: 60 ft 1.25 in (18.31 m)Wingspan: 44 ft 8.5 in (13.62 m)Height: 16 ft 0 in (4.88 m)Wing area: 500 sq ft (46.5 m2)
  
  
  
  • Range: 1,275 nmi (1,458 mi, 2,346 km) with armament of two AIM-9s^[3]
    
  • Combat range: 390 nmi (449 mi, 722 km) for interdiction^[211]
    
  
  Length: 17.3 m (56 ft 9 in)Wingspan: 12 m (39 ft 4 in)Height: 4.73 m (15 ft 6 in)Wing area: 41 m2 (440 sq ft)
  
  
  
  • Range: 2,400 km (1,500 mi, 1,300 nmi) ^[83]
    
  • Combat range: 1,000 km (620 mi, 540 nmi)
    
  
  
  
  
• They were offered the latest F-16 which is comparable to MiG-35, but chose more capable F-18E/F, which r, if not better, at least as good as MiG-35s in most respects.
  
  

If the F-18 is so great why are they using F-35s as their naval strike aircraft?- they r at least great enough to be a substitute for juvenile F-35s.

There were plenty of multirole upgrades suggested for the F-14 but they were killed by an MIC wanting to make thousands of F-35s and screw all of Americas allies at once.- the same is true for the F-111.

The problem is that it is going to be Russias fault... but it will be amusing hearing all the problems with the F-18...- India has unique reqs & demands; since they can't produce their comparable planes, all they can do is complain & bargain. 

Two different things though... they don't operate carriers designed for heavy strike aircraft so it is bloody stupid and a total waste of time and money trying to shoehorn heavy strike aircraft onto small carriers... - they r aiming at getting a CVN or 2; who said that all the fighters on their CV must be big F-18E/Fs?

Until they get a lot more ships and subs they will be a defensive force... which means strike fighters are less important than pure fighters... - until then, F-18E/Fs can be used for AA/ASh combat.

if this trend continues, they may soon become bona fide US & UK allies with the loss of Russian arms sales & support. That's also why India started buying more Western aircraft in the last few years.

They were offered the latest F-16 which is comparable to MiG-35, but chose more capable F-18E/F, which r, if not better, at least as good as MiG-35s in most respects.

- they r at least great enough to be a substitute for juvenile F-35s.

the same is true for the F-111.

.- India has unique reqs & demands; since they can't produce their comparable planes, all they can do is complain & bargain.

- they r aiming at getting a CVN or 2; who said that all the fighters on their CV must be big F-18E/Fs?

- until then, F-18E/Fs can be used for AA/ASh combat.

GarryB wrote:At 8 billion for 36 Rafales I doubt they will turn west for very long... they got royally screwed by France on this one... no ifs or buts...-as with the AH-64/CH-47s buy, they want to show their usefulness with being an ally against the PRC; if they kept buying everything mil. aviation related from Russia no1 would take them seriously. The IN had/s ex-RN & USN ships; I don't see how it can't get ex-US CV/Ns with by then ready AWs once they learn the ropes. Then the PLAN will have to deal with them in 2 oceans under both flags (besides JMSDF, RN, & FN carriers), not just in the W. Pacific & E/SC Sea.
..replacing the F-14s with F-18s was not a great move... at the very least they could have developed a Phoenix replacement...- it would be hard to justify in the post-CW period while the power projection ashore was the name of the game then. In any case, Kinzhals & Zircons will be used against them from farther away than F-14/Phoenix combo could pull. For other adversaries (except China with her similarly armed H-6Ks), F-18E/Fs r good enough. 

I have never heard an Indian politician or military expert complain they have too much money in their budget...- corruption goes both ways: the Americans in charge of their Indo-Pac. policy  must be bought too. 

Makes little sense splitting a limited number of aircraft these days. Multirole is standard... -not if used for training &/ supported by the AF.
As a defensive force the MiG-35 would be a better aircraft that has commonality with current navy and air force aircraft and would likely be cheaper too... and with no strings attached.- even if so, being sanctioned for the S-400 purchase is enough- why wave another red cloth? Even the US allied Egypt got sanctioned as Russian Su-35s arrive.

Any senator with the hump could put sanctions on India over this that or the other thing... just on a whim...- that could be vetoed; $ will grease the wheels!

1. We have formed a QUAD  so common platforms will be better
2. F/A-18E/F Super Hornet Block-III is better overall than the Rafale F34 being offered in terms of technology, price etc.
3. We can Integrate Meteor Missiles on these jets because of being a NATO aircraft.
4. Spares and overhauling done in India along with maintenance
5. Will better co-ordinate with P-8is, MH-24Rs and Sea Guardian drones of Indian Navy.
6. Comes with a G—F414 engine that will share commonality with engine in future Tejas MK2, ORCA, TEDBF and AMCA aircraft.
7.Can carry Advance LRASM cruise missile
8. Can become a strong deterrent to China and Pakistan
9. Has a twin seater the F/A-18F Super Hornet Block-III like our Su-30 MKIs
10. Will enable us to purchase E/A-18F Growler Electronic Warfare aircraft which are a total beast Plus will enable us purchase the E-2 HawkEye AEW&C aircraft from USA for INS Vishal.- those can also assist their AF.
11. Won’t affect TEDBF as INS Vishal will have enough scope for TEDBF and maybe Navy can buy some more TEDBF for ground based operation in Andaman and Nicobar Islands and the rest of development cost of TEDBF will be carried by ORCA, the AF version of TEDBF as MWF will be a single engine fighter and IAF will need an indigenous twin engine fighter so ORCA will be considered for sure. But Hornets are necessary coz TEDBF will not go into production before 2030.- so, the F-18E/F/Gs r stop gap, as I was saying!
F/A-18E/F Super Hornet Block-III has a longer airframe life also, ..

if they kept buying everything mil. aviation related from Russia no1 would take them seriously.

The IN had/s ex-RN & USN ships; I don't see how it can't get ex-US CV/Ns with by then ready AWs once they learn the ropes. Then the PLAN will have to deal with them in 2 oceans under both flags (besides JMSDF, RN, & FN carriers), not just in the W. Pacific & E/SC Sea.

- corruption goes both ways: the Americans in charge of their Indo-Pac. policy must be bought too.

First, the F/A-18 Super Hornet will be offered to India in both a single-seater (E-variant) and two-seater (F-variant) configuration, with both being carrier compatible.

Carrier test: This Super Hornet loves to jump

Yeah, I am sure China is scared to death at the prospect of India pissing away billions of dollars on ships and fighter aircraft from America, because second hand US ships will be even more vulnerable than their current models...

You do understand that China operates Moskit and Yakhont...

India does not need to bribe any Americans... it is American using India as a tool against China...

India just needs to decide to improve relations with China...

Even they question if India can afford them.... hahahahaha.

- they can be modernized & shouldn't be ignored. CV/Ns will extend AD2 area around India & her possessions- China isn't stupid to get in a 2 front war like Germany & Japan in WWII.

but India has Brahmos, etc.

India is also playing the American card in this new Great Game; her stakes must be backed up by real $. She's an ideal counterweight near China's underbelly, & it can be used with minimal American losses. Recall the allies campaign in N. Africa & Italy before the Normandy landings.

OTH, India can absorb huge losses- Ms of them die each year of starvation, desease, crime, communal violence, etc.

- interoperability & sustainability would be better with common tactics, weapons & parts

-even if true, why give the French more profits instead of struggling Boeing?

- other Ms may be adopted too.

- if F-16 theoreticly could, why not F-18s?

- to them, it's not that important; extra capability & political dividends outweighs this factor.

-possible.

-it too could be adopted.

- the tension is already sky high, but there's a chance China will be pressured for concessions.

In any case, India want to be strong so she can fight a 2 front war with the PRC + Pakistan & avoid being subordinated/bossed around to/by China like many others been lately in Asia .

- so much easier to retrain their pilots for the F-18Fs.

- they can use Ka-31s; 4 deactivated CVN-65 &/ older CVs catapults can also be provided by the US like others were supplied to France & Brazil. Il-38/P-8s will be helping too.

- u may look that post up on Indian Defense forum & join it to ask for clarifications.

The Indian nationalists won't allow it w/o a big fight; it's not possible before a crushing mil. defeat or a breakup.

if nothing else, selling a few C-17s & buying a few IL-476s, besides cutting other less important programs, should help a lot! India can also send her workers to the RF like NK did to earn extra $.

GarryB wrote:

Yes, China is not stupid... so why send a carrier force to attack a country it shares a long land border with... especially a country with Brahmos anti ship missiles?- u forgot about Pakistan, the Nicobars, Maldives & Sri Lanka. In a certain way, the latter is India's Taiwan.
That is correct.... which makes using carriers against each other a fucking stupid idea when they share an enormous border and can use the ground to launch aircraft based attacks and missile based attacks on their neighbour without the risk of the other side launching a missile attack and sinking their airfields with all the aircraft at those airfields also being destroyed when submerged under water...- u forgot about the need to protect other ships & subs which r useful in outflanking & attacking enemy ashore with LACMs.
Spending billions of dollars to create a mobile airbase that you then use within range of your ground based air power is just useless pissing away of money for India. ..India does not need a large and powerful navy... not till it starts exporting and importing goods from around the world and therefore needs to secure its own sea lines of communication (SLOC). ..in fact conflict with China runs directly counter to India interests... they would be better off working with China on shared interests like BRICS and working on common problems of countries with large populations and newly developing economies... while retaining their own culture and values...- I was saying the same thing last year, but the Indians think otherwise; feel free to contact their politicians, scholars, admirals & generals to convince them otherwise. It would be interesting to read their responses should u ever get it.
For China they will need to create a perimeter around Taiwan to keep US naval forces away so they can't interfere and also to deal with Japan which has a useful navy too.- if India decides to invade Sri Lanka, her CV/Ns will play a similar role.
but how does hostility with China help India... except make them spend money on weapons they would not otherwise need and hostile relations with its largest neighbour... and of course force China and Pakistan to work together against India too?- it helps her elites to stay in power; Germany, UK & France fought many wars over 100s of years before reaching a settlement between themselves.
Yeah, I am sure racist fucking americans think it is a win win... if a war starts against these two nuclear powers some Asians will kill some blacks...- like during Iran-Iraq War.
what is in it for India... apart from the prestige of operating some very expensive American weapons they can only use when given permission to do so...(ie against China only).- who else besides the PRC & Pakistan+ their proxies is India arming herself against?
Fuck Boeing... years of being attached to the gravy train nipple have made them pathetic and weak... their products are not good enough, and yet are still expensive to buy and operate.- Taiwan bought both French & American fighters; it now has more F-16s than Mirages- why didn't they buy the Rafales instead? The FN has 1 CVN while the USN has 10 active CVNs+10 more LHA/Ds & SSN/SSGNs, besides dozens of B-1B/2/52s that deploy to the W. Pac & IO all the time. So, who is a better ally to buy from?
just like Hornet production... you would not set up production for less than a couple of hundred aircraft and their navy couldn't use more than 100 at best.- F-18E/Fs could be liked & adopted by the IAF too, esp. since For the purchase of the S-400, the US can ; at least producing some parts maybe in the cards.
What political dividends?-if nothing else, effectively demonstrate being able to stand up to China & show Russia that India can be independent in choosing her allies of convenience.
so what exactly does it get from this purchase that wont be instantly forgotten if they do something the US does not approve of?- she is too big an ally to fail in being useful to the US; her lobby in Washington isn't much less influential than Saudi's & Israel's.
The US will not let Indian or Russian experts integrate Brahmos on the Hornet... they will demand to do it themselves and India will effectively be handing over Brahmos technology to the US...-they'll be no different than the Israelis & Iranians who integrated their armaments & avionics on American supplied fighters.
as India increases the performance of her navy and air force, China will simply do the same... and I think even with full US support that China is going to have more large ships including carriers than India could ever afford, ..-not if the US gives her a few CV/Ns to even the odds. In any case, the USN, RN, FN, & JMSDF will be keeping/sending carriers in/to the IO even if India has a token force deployable at any given time.
So to prevent China from bossing them around they want the US and likely Japan and Australia to boss them around?-no, it's not a 0 sum game; just like China played the Soviet & American cards against each other, India can play American & Chinese cards against each other, while still maintaining good relations with Iran, Russia, Japan, Taiwan, Australia, the Arabs & Israelis.
So if Hawkeye can't be used then this is not a useful advantage...-time will tell! and it seems they can't use Ka-31s because US gear does not operate well with enemy equipment remember... that is why you have to buy all US gear...-their avionics can be modified; their CH-47s can also be modified, with bigger radar antenna, & a few V-22s could be sold to them as well. The F-18Fs can also be used as mini AWACS, just like IrAF F-14s were in Iran-Iraq War.
but that is the game India is playing.-it'll be swaying back & forth for years between worse & better relations with all 3 of them maneuvering to gain more benefits to themselves.
Well then Indian nationalists will get a war... a war they likely wont win because the US will drop them like a hot potato when things really get bad.... and they will spend trillions in a cold war that could be better spend on economic development and growth... but I am sure they don't understand that this is exactly what the US MIC wants because that is how they make money.- again, u r preaching to the choir here.
Yes, sell off stuff and sending workers to afford stuff you don't need...

it's not the 1st time people do unnecessary & useless things, & it won't be the last. NK could have asked to join the USSR like China did & it would have a better chance of succeeding, avoiding the burden of huge war & defense costs; instead, she got war, famine, & sanctions, while her 3 Kim rulers enjoyed good food, women, & Western luxury goods.