Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

The Indian Navy received the third Scorpene-class Karanj submarine (S-23).

https://en.topwar.ru/180035-indijskie-vms-popolnilis-tretej-submarinoj-tipa-scorpene.html

-they'll have 6 CV/Ns max.

Even if that is all they want that is plenty.

It is not like they have to cover the worlds oceans like the US does...

.-India will have 2CVs + possible locally built 1 CVN & may get 1-2 ex-US CV/Ns; she already has her escort ships.

India does not have anything like the cruiser sized ships she would need to escort a CV... its destroyers have SAMs with effective ranges of less than 100km, which would have been OK in the 1980s, but not now...


You need more than Destroyers and Frigates to escort carriers... of course at the moment they only have the converted Kiev class carrier... has the carrier they were making themselves made it to the water yet?

The INS Viraat was decommissioned 2017...

-it'll still make the PLAN & Pakistani Navy deployments in the IO risky & costly in any crisis.

In times of crisis it will make them more necessary... and keeping in mind both Pakistan and China are nuclear powers... it would be rather straight forward to load a few nuclear armed low flying subsonic land attack cruise missiles on any ships or subs operating in the Indian Ocean... or indeed any torpedo could be fitted with a nuclear warhead too... just direct it into the nearest naval base or commercial port or port near a major city....

- no need for 10 CVNs, they'll have 5-6 CV/Ns + 4-6 LHA/Ds.

The point is that even one well armed cruiser would probably distract the defences long enough for the sub to leave the area or for 10 more subs to arrive and start sinking every enemy ship they see...

- Russia won't put all her eggs in 1 Chinese basket even for $500B.

India does not seem interested in the Su-57, why not sell the Chinese some of those technologies... they already traded secret rocket designs for micro electronic production secrets, though those rocket designs they were already selling to the US so they were hardly secret. China has stolen lots of technology and information from the US, mostly because they wont let them buy it, but when given the chance to buy technology they are normally quite happy to do so.

.- it bypasses her now, as India is out of the way; although she could join with a few branches via Pakistan, Afghanistan & Iran.

Which just shows how dumb India is being getting into bed with the US and Japan et al.

There is trillions of dollars in trade potential between Asia and the EU... why would a country not want to tap in to that and take advantage of that to move their goods in both directions?

That could have been a huge driver for her own economic growth.

- they could keep it as a low intensity conflict, w/o using nukes. Sometimes sword/gunfighters decide to use fists & feet to see who is the best.

You watch too many cowboy movies... the history of fighting was brutal and offensive for our soft modern eyes...

The hand guards on a sword are not for decoration and are not intended to make the sword look like a christian cross when held by the blade... they are there to stop your enemy swinging and meeting your blade and then turning his sword and sliding it down the edge of your blade and either cutting off your fingers down one side of the blade or your hands at the wrists on the other.

Think of the fucking stupid cowboy who fights an armed man using his fists... when he gets up close and takes a swing the other guy draws his pistol and shoots him in the chest... he wont miss because the muzzle of his gun is pressed up against your shirt...

What you see in movies is bullshit... and if it was real life and death you would do the same.

- it'll still complicate their ops & deployments/transits to/from PRC & make them more costly.

No it wont... the whole plan is to stop shipping goods that way to Europe... the ships would go north and along the Russian coastline... it will be 14 days shorter to the EU and there is no canal to pay to use either...

- but in wartime, they'll be more vulnerable.

In war time the Chinese ships are much better armed than the Indian ships and are much bigger too.

In war time between nuclear armed super powers trying to cut off commerce would be a reason for military action... the Chinese navy would get the job of ensuring ships delivering goods to and from China can operate freely... if Indian ships and Australian ships and Jap ships and American ships want to try to stop Chinese transport ships then they will find they will come under attack for their acts of piracy.

- even if so, IMO, 1 extra CV/N in the IN can aid it in many things.

The likely cost to India would probably be 5 billion for the ship alone and likely another 20 billion for the aircraft assuming they are the AWACS and Hornets and US big military helicopters that operate on their older carriers... so no advantage and no improvement but 20 to 30 billion dollars buying Americas cast off crap...

Then China would be very interested in spending 100 billion on buying Su-57s and also getting a navalised version produced for their carriers and then the US is screwed because a naval Su-57 will be vastly more capable than any more F-35 they currently have and the F-15EX and new model F-16s wont be of any use either as neither are carrier capable. There is no way to dig up the F-14 all the tooling and drawings are gone... intentionally destroyed... same with the F-22... they can't bring them back easily.

-if nothing else, to control her SLOCs

Always thinking like an American... Not control. Protect. They want a presence but they don't want to kick everyone else out. They understand other countries will want to use that waterway too... it is only the US that tries to dominate and push everyone else out.

- even if they get 6, the max deployable #= 2, since 1-2 should stay in the W. Pac./SCS.

They can easily operate in the west pacific and south china seas with land based aircraft and IRCM and IRBMs.

- I won't mind them having a naval war; last time China lost & the RN needs its nose bloodied for that.

I am sure you loved the Indians and Chinese have border disputes where young men died too... entertainment was it?

.- they can just disable it w/o sinking it.

They could try, but what happens when the platform that attacks the Chinese ships gets attacked and sunk?

That is called self defence... they could sink any other ship nearby too... they could say they weren't sure which ship actually launched the attack...

- they r de-facto allied with India & US vs. PRC, & Australia, another member of the British Commonwealth, is in the E. IO & S. Pac.

So the next time a western ship sails through the SCS the Chinese can sink them too?

They have islands there that could have land based Onyx missiles they could upgrade to improve range performance...

-by then, that or some other prototective system will be combat ready.

Been about 40 years since the Falklands war and I am not sure UK ships are fully safe from Exocet type missiles let alone Granits.

- silly for u to suggest that; their wasteful spending & inefficiency r legendary.

So pissing away cash on American shit that wont help at all but will antagonise Indias neighbour and cause even more tensions and mistrust, when they should be dropping the US like the they are and improving relations with China and getting to know their neighbour better.

-if the US gave them to Russia or PRC, they would be useful; the same for India. If they really were so useless, the USN would sell them all for scrap by now.

The US constantly burdens it bitches with useless crap. Worn out old helicopters and fighter aircraft are common "gifts" US allies get to pay top dollar for.

Russia and China wouldn't want that American crap... it would cost too much to fix it and get it to work... they might take them to bits to see what stupid design choices were made and all the patches to fix them and make them work... would probably be quite entertaining...

- WWII, Korean War, Vietnam War, Gulf War, & GWOT were also unnecessary, but they did happen;

All horrendous wastes of time and money and most importantly lives, but westerns stupidity and arrogance is what it is.

nations, like individuals, don't always act in their best interests, & the PRC-India confrontation existed since 1962.

And US confrontation against Japan and Germany and the UK and France and all the other combinations of UK vs Germany and US and France and Japan etc etc... yet when defeated and turned into the others bitch they seem to be able to cooperate.

It is not working with China and the west and Russia and the west because those two independent countries don't want to be the wests bitch and abandon their allies and interests for the sake of Washington.

I rather suspect India will realise what it is potentially giving up as it heads down the path with the US.... CAASTA should prevent them getting too far.

Even Turkey wont go that path... and they are not natural friends with Russia but I suspect they realise the sort of friend the US wants them to be and they don't want that even more.

-I doubt it, the Biden admin. will keep the pressure.

Trump was driving the Anti China pogrom... I don't think it was a deep state thing, so Biden is in the anti Russian camp, but he wont want to be hard on Russia and China... he will want to play one off against the other.

Whether he actually succeeds is something else... the Democrats did a lot of things around the world they hoped would improve things for American and it mostly just blew up in their faces... they really don't seem very popular in the Middle East or elsewhere... because of their clumsy actions and positions... creepy joe has even backed out of blindly 100% support for Saudi Arabia in Yemen... and paused the sale of F-35s to UAE for its cow towing over Israel... something Trump was proud of so of course he will kill it.

.-they'll bark loud but won't bite hard.

Which renders CAASTA meaningless then doesn't it?

.- they r smart enough to keep their option open by not getting with both feet in either camp.

They are getting into bed with a disease ridden whore who just wants a ride... how smart can they be... could end up with something they will be paying for the rest of their lives.

- I meant the local US dregs that can't easily even find their own state & hometown on the map.

Google maps has a search function. Funny that people who are not planning a trip don't waste hours of their lives learning where everything is on a map... just like most people wouldn't know what star they are looking at in the night sky, but no one ever moans about that...

-no, they can keep those on Russian/Indian built CVs & use F-18s or Rafales on CVNs.

Adding a new aircraft type does not save on commonality... it adds greatly to costs and expenses and problems... especially an expensive aircraft like a Hornet.

-they could, even if in low #, as force multipliers.

No they couldn't.

they imported dozens of C-17s, AH-64s, CH-57s & Rafales instead of their Russian counterparts;

They did... they spent 80% of their budget on 20% of their inventory buying western crap.

And that is for them to justify.

It is not a good reason to piss away enormous amounts of money to introduce new types of totally different and unrelated aircraft and ship types to their inventory.

if they order/build F-18s or naval Rafales, that will still be within their way of doing things.

If they buy Rafales or F-18s they wont be able to afford the ships they are supposed to operate from... which really runs counter to the entire purpose of getting them.

These aircraft are several times more expensive than their current heavy fighter.... it would be cheaper to buy more Su-30MKIs... in fact if they took all the foreign shit out of them that makes them three times more expensive they could probably buy three times more aircraft and still pay less money to buy and operate them.

They have their own logic & paradigm to follow.

They certainly do... it makes stealing easier I suspect.

New Delhi forges ahead with new naval fighter, AMCA

Which would make the Hornet as a stop gap naval fighter even more ridiculous if they are planning to develop their own new fighter for the role.

Indian Navy on Wednesday inducted the third Scorpene-class diesel-electric submarine, INS Karanj, into service.

It’s part of six being built under Project-75 by Mazagon Dock Limited

Six Scorpene submarines are being built under Project-75 by Mazagon Dock Limited (MDL), Mumbai, under technology transfer from Naval Group of France, as part of a $3.75 billion deal signed in October 2005. However, the programme has been hit by four-year delays in construction.

The first Indian destroyer INS Rajput, built in the USSR, will be decommissioned today
Today, 09: 41
22
Indian Navy destroyer Rajput served 41 years. It was put into operation on May 4, 1980 in the Georgian port of Poti.

Information about this appeared in the India Today magazine.

The publication reports that on May 21, after 41 years of service, the first Indian destroyer INS Rajput, created in the USSR, will be decommissioned. Due to the pandemic, the decommissioning ceremony, which will take place at the Visakhapatnam naval shipyard, will be modest. Today, in the presence of sailors and officers, in compliance with all quarantine precautions at sunset, the naval flag and the commissioning pennant will be lowered.

Over the years of her service, this Soviet-built ship took part in several military operations to ensure the security of India, as well as in numerous international exercises.

INS Rajput is a 61-ME class lead destroyer built in the Soviet Union. It was created at the 61 Communards shipyard in Nikolaev, which today belongs to Ukraine. The ship was laid down on September 11, 1976 as a BOD (large anti-submarine) and was first launched on September 17, 1977. Initially it was named "Reliable", then it was renamed INS Rajput and transferred to the Indians. For 41 years of operation, the destroyer replaced 31 commanders (captains). In the NATO classification it is designated as "Kashin-II class"

https://en.topwar.ru/183204-segodnja-budet-spisan-pervyj-indijskij-jesminec-ins-rajput-postroennyj-v-sssr.html

Indian Navy receives 8th P-XNUMXI Neptune patrol base aircraft

https://en.topwar.ru/185003-vms-indii-poluchili-desjatyj-patrulnyj-bazovyj-samolet-p-8i-neptune.html

It is only a problem for India if they follow the US and become cannon fodder in a new cold war against China.

Besides, the naval factors is largely irrelevant anyway... India has Brahmos and China has Yakhont so neither would last very long.

They share a long land border so naval warfare would not be very important at all for either side.

So your Brahmos, Yakhont comparison doesn't work either.

Both have very capable anti ship missiles.

India will have the support of the US and Japan and South Korea and Australia, China will have China... and Pakistan.

US weren't helping UK during WW2 let alone India against a country that has nuks.

Russia and US and UK were all on the same side during WWII but things apparently seem to have changed.

The US also helped the wrong side in both civil wars in Russia and China... which is ironic because the Russians supported the right side in the US civil war...

I remember reading an article about US active soldiers offering their sniper services to the Russians in the Crimean war... against the British... quite interesting.

Japan has conquered and destroyed South korea and tried to colonized Australia. South Korea still sees Japan as an enemy state.

And yet all of these countries are joining the US in a coalition of the stupid against China... it wont be India that starts anything... more likely the US...

In terms of alliance that will never work.

Yeah, and the countries of HATO are all best buddies who have never drawn blood before in anger...

If a war breaks out it will be everyone for itself. And the only one there to try to be self-sufficient is China. India is a mess, spending more than anyone else but is getting very few weapons for that money.

India spends nothing like what the US spends let alone what China spends...

Japan rellies on US. South korea too. US relies on all of them because it is goo far from China, needs bases. Australia is a joke as a country, let alone its military which lost a war against a bird.

All the countries of the alliance against China are bitches.... American bitches, and while America claims it will stand by Taiwan if there is a problem with China, they will run away like little girls first chance they get.

But China would have a hell of a job actually getting rid of them... as SS mentions... they are like cockroaches... nuclear wars wont eradicate them...