S-300P/400 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

GarryB wrote:

F-22/35 can deal with S-400 using only glider bombs GBU-39 now later GBU-53  more capable vs mobile targets it is an enormeous advantage for 3 reasons

Labrador wrote:but the dual S-400 vs F-35 very important and all advantages provide stealth fighter or bombers especialy F-22/35 which have the best RCS 
He have calculated 
https://manglermuldoon.blogspot.com/2013/08/implications-of-potential-russia-china.html

F-22/35 can deal with S-400 using only glider bombs GBU-39 now later GBU-53  more capable vs mobile targets it is an enormeous advantage for 3 reasons

- the salvo size, the power 8 by F-22/35 no stealth have max 2 LACM LR … x 4 in theory can destroy 8 vehicles vs 2... !

And obviously normaly in general F-22/35 win but not sure you have awalys circumstances, chance also and don't exist perfect weapons.
Despite it ofc stealth fighters are more expensive to build, maintain etc... and not stealth remains  good interesting and with a LACM LR attack with a missile with 400 + km range the fighter is certain to be safe

According RCS Su-57 and J-20 can' t do same vs S-400 

in more don't exist Russians glider bombs.

Hole wrote:Each S-400 unit is guarded by Pantsir systems. You can´t just bomb it.

An A-50U can easily detect targes a 400km range. There are also ground-based radars with that range. The S-400 will be fed with data from this systems.

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

you forgot to add with GPS and IR homing in area defended by Krasukha?and Rtut? + Pantrisr?
Good luck, you gonna need it.      

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krasukha_(electronic_warfare_system)
http://nevskii-bastion.ru/rtut-bm/

…

EBO will detect stealth targets at enormous distances and will allow S-400 to shoot down stealth aircraft before they get anywhere near the systems to destroy them with glide bombs. Modern stealth designs are designed to evade high frequency short radar wavelengths... NEBO is a VHF frequency radar... wrote:

Labrador wrote:
Hehe but ofc i can't provide all scenarios etc...mainly according radar range and RCS to have more you need to go to Ashuluk or Nellis AB  

There also difference coz with some bands some radars can sometimes detect stealth to long range but can't targeted … 

n addition a EW fighter as EA-18G, Tornado ECR  with others can do the job USA use Wild Weasel fighters since 50 years F-105 after F-4G they know do it is the best trained Air Services coz Soviet/Russians have SAMs and very good and not since yesterday… 

And not true anti-radar but AGM-158, Taurus, SCALP-EG very stealth which have a superior range and excellent accuracy 1 m for the 2 lasts are perfectly able to destroy S-400

Now everyone has his own opinion but don' t exist perfect weapons and since always it is the sword and the cuirass

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

Labrador wrote:but the dual S-400 vs F-35 very important and all advantages provide stealth fighter or bombers especialy F-22/35 which have the best RCS 
He have calculated 
https://manglermuldoon.blogspot.com/2013/08/implications-of-potential-russia-china.html

Calculations were from dr Cropp's blog. And were referring to told version of radar and  X-band only. in L-band VLO is not that V anymore, often also not L. Just O.

With Opponent-GE or Gamma-DE F-22or F-35 can be detected  from over 200km

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA-%D0%93%D0%95
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%BC%D0%B0-%D0%94%D0%95

F-22/35 can deal with S-400 using only glider bombs GBU-39 now later GBU-53  more capable vs mobile targets it is an enormeous advantage for 3 reasons

-

you forgot to add with GPS and IR homing in area defended by Krasukha?and Rtut? + Pantrisr?
Good luck, you gonna need it.      

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krasukha_(electronic_warfare_system)
http://nevskii-bastion.ru/rtut-bm/

- the salvo size, the power 8 by F-22/35 no stealth have max 2 LACM LR … x 4 in theory can destroy 8 vehicles vs 2... !

like that?

And obviously normaly in general F-22/35 win but not sure you have awalys circumstances, chance also and don't exist perfect weapons.
Despite it ofc stealth fighters are more expensive to build, maintain etc... and not stealth remains  good interesting and with a LACM LR attack with a missile with 400 + km range the fighter is certain to be safe

normally against Syrian Su-17 sure. Against Su-35/Su-57 with Ks-172 (400kmrange) not really. If F-22 is far away perhaps can escape. F-35 is dead meat regardless far or near. As slow bomb truck against missile which can defeat 4000km/h targets?

According RCS Su-57 and J-20 can' t do same vs S-400 

Dunno about J-20 but Su-57 is not build to perform first strike. Is build to fight with F-22. F-35 is so poor that I dotn think has much chances against Su-30.

in more don't exist Russians glider bombs.

If you say so.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PBK-500U_Drel

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

Labrador wrote:but the dual S-400 vs F-35 very important and all advantages provide stealth fighter or bombers especialy F-22/35 which have the best RCS 
He have calculated 
https://manglermuldoon.blogspot.com/2013/08/implications-of-potential-russia-china.html

Calculations were from dr Cropp's blog. And were referring to told version of radar and  X-band only. in L-band VLO is not that V anymore, often also not L. Just O.

With Opponent-GE or Gamma-DE F-22or F-35 can be detected  from over 200km

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA-%D0%93%D0%95
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%BC%D0%B0-%D0%94%D0%95

F-22/35 can deal with S-400 using only glider bombs GBU-39 now later GBU-53  more capable vs mobile targets it is an enormeous advantage for 3 reasons

-

you forgot to add with GPS and IR homing in area defended by Krasukha?and Rtut? + Pantrisr?
Good luck, you gonna need it.      

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krasukha_(electronic_warfare_system)
http://nevskii-bastion.ru/rtut-bm/

- the salvo size, the power 8 by F-22/35 no stealth have max 2 LACM LR … x 4 in theory can destroy 8 vehicles vs 2... !

like that?

And obviously normaly in general F-22/35 win but not sure you have awalys circumstances, chance also and don't exist perfect weapons.
Despite it ofc stealth fighters are more expensive to build, maintain etc... and not stealth remains  good interesting and with a LACM LR attack with a missile with 400 + km range the fighter is certain to be safe

normally against Syrian Su-17 sure. Against Su-35/Su-57 with Ks-172 (400kmrange) not really. If F-22 is far away perhaps can escape. F-35 is dead meat regardless far or near. As slow bomb truck against missile which can defeat 4000km/h targets?

According RCS Su-57 and J-20 can' t do same vs S-400 

Dunno about J-20 but Su-57 is not build to perform first strike. Is build to fight with F-22. F-35 is so poor that I dotn think has much chances against Su-30.

in more don't exist Russians glider bombs.

If you say so.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PBK-500U_Drel

miketheterrible wrote:And you are not honest in your statements

GunshipDemocracy wrote:You see, there is small difference however. West is building weapons all over the world. Russia is optimizing weapons to counter western aggression. So taks is easier.
The best proof is that neither Israel not US illegal coalition dared to bomb Syrian govt since S-300.

good try dude 

Labrador wrote:

For Nebo-M yet exist few and he have a 400 km range vs 1 m2 do 60 km vs F-35 again less vs F-22 ! change nothing for SEAD mission
In addition now some say F-35 is also good than F-22 for frontal RCS...

he S-400 directs the missile it has launched towards the target and the radar in the missile turns on... as it gets closer it uses the radar in the missile to find and track the target for the interception because even though the radar in the missile is small it is also much much closer to the target which makes it better able to find and track the target for the interception... Look at any radar chart showing detection ranges and almost all radars can see stealthy targets at less than 30km or so... it is at long range that they normally have problems... using TVM and some from of long range detection that tells you roughly where the stealth target is you can generally get your missile close enough to find the stealthy target on its own... wrote:

Arrow wrote:

he S-400 directs the missile it has launched towards the target and the radar in the missile turns on... as it gets closer it uses the radar in the missile to find and track the target for the interception because even though the radar in the missile is small it is also much much closer to the target which makes it better able to find and track the target for the interception... Look at any radar chart showing detection ranges and almost all radars can see stealthy targets at less than 30km or so... it is at long range that they normally have problems... using TVM and some from of long range detection that tells you roughly where the stealth target is you can generally get your missile close enough to find the stealthy target on its own... wrote:

48N6DM has no radar and ARH is not guided. Only 9M96 has active homing. There are no missiles on S-400 systems. The S-400 needs a radar engagement to guide the missiles. TVM is used in the terminal phase. Previously, the missile is directed by command. Read SOC posts.

Singular_Transform wrote:

The NEBO-M can feed the data to the flap lid, and that can guide the missile, and the terminal phase it illuminate the target + collect the data from missile + command the missile to the target with the information from the NEBO-M and big bird.

The radar in the missile have better characteristic in the last ten km compared to the flap lid used as radar illuminator .

Labrador wrote:
You need to point… so i see rather contrary with Crimea in 2014... 

fortunaly we protect Baltic States and do the Job but only vs ISIS which is the bad guy

For your comparison for fighters  i remenber you also NATO pilots fly minimum 170 - 180h/year Russian 120 some years ago max 50 hours … 

in more US Air services have 7 Agressors Sqns ! and private companies provide thousands of flight hours and dozens of birds Rusian AF don't have a true agressor Sqn.

Labrador wrote:Your not honnest in your answer

This bomb is not in service in more less good than US even LS-6 Chines serie used by J-20...

GBU-39 later 53 have range efficient vs S-400 in more even if Su-57 have he need a bomb with double range coz stealth it is weakness ...

In addition for Su-30 i guess SM vs F-35 lol ! 

For Nebo-M yet exist few and he have a 400 km range vs 1 m2 do 60 km vs F-35 again less vs F-22 ! change nothing for SEAD mission
In addition now some say F-35 is also good than F-22 for frontal RCS...

in more US Air services have 7 Agressors Sqns ! and private companies provide thousands of flight hours and dozens of birds Rusian AF don't have a true agressor Sqn.