Indo-China dispute

i think till india can pay in cash any1 in the world will be willing to sell them stuff , but we have to remember that Russia supported india when the whole world was against india .. and i agree india also bailed out russia in the 1990s but that has made the relationship stronger ,

as the ambassador of russia pointed out ,that Russia was first to help india in defense and nuclear research , others are just getting there now ,so russia has a edge on all other countries ... and even today when india buy stuff from rest of the world ,india makes sure there is always a deal for the russians ,

the reason indians dint consider russians for MMRca ,cuz they already had thier handsfull , with the mig29 upgrades ,5th gen Fighters .
india wanted a new essembly line for MMRca cuz hal cannot take this load together , also to mention the LCA which HAL is still struggling to get out ....

Sino -russian relations can be tested when india goes to war with china , u will know which side russian is on hehehe

some people (including Gary ) think that india cant win with China , but trust me if india china go to war ,india will come out as winner .

GarryB wrote:I think India should avoid war with China at all costs... because there are not going to be winners in such a conflict...

I am sure the US and even UK would love to see India and China in a war because it could cripple both countries and they could go in and sell stuff to both sides afterwards.

i cannot agree with u more , but china has been very agressive off late , they made a few intrusions in our lands , in leh ..painted the stones red which read CHINA .. the chinese soldiers threaten the local people telling them it was chinese land, they are trying to influenze burma ..srilanka and they already have 11k troops in gilgit baltistan ,although both gov have played down the issues , india has upgraded its numbers on the chinese borders . india is not taking any chances . there is a saying in chinese

"Take the land inch by inch " so althought the GOV on both sides dont say anything ,but the hostility is still there ....and when there r armed forces in hugh numbers on both sides .there isa chance that a stupid mistake on any of the side could start a war , i really hope i am wrong on this one

China will not get far with that attitude. Making all its neighbours its enemies will not get them far and basically they are in some sort of arguments more or less with every each of them. Its not to difficult to foresee that US will be quick to exploit that situation like with India or Vietnam whats going on now. China is to slow to make allies and move on to expand its influence like US does and in that sense they remind me of the Ents from Lord of the Rings. I think some greater outside threat will likely make them reconsider stronger political and military ties with Russia and making piece and eventually allies with its neightbours in time.

PS. I still think they have no other options but to buy Su-35 besides S-400.

I Agree with GarryB, China and India have very little confilcts of essential interest. Traditionally, China and India coexist for over a thousand years. China received Buddahism from India, and were very curious about Indian cultrue. The Sino-Inida border dispute do exist, but to China , a certain compromise is acceptable.

chenzhao wrote:I Agree with GarryB, China and India have very little confilcts of essential interest. Traditionally, China and India coexist for over a thousand years. China received Buddahism from India, and were very curious about Indian cultrue. The Sino-Inida border dispute do exist, but to China , a certain compromise is acceptable.

Exactly . CHina and India need to trade in their own currencies (Renminbi and Rupee) just like China is doing with Russia . This will lower the dependence on the US dollar and help curb inflation and deflation in both the countries to a good extent. China is already India's largest trading partner.

china needs to stop poking india in the eye ..everynow and then they do things which india doesnt like ..and they expect india to be more friendly ..
in recent news china is going to make a space observatory in aksaichin .. this is like rubbing salt on india's wounds .. countless border intrusions .. china is the main reason pakistan has nukes today .china is the reason our relation with maldives and srilanka has taken a hit .. i just hope they releasize soon india is not what it was in 1962 .china needs to stop acting like a bully .none of the countries bordering china likes it ..

Regarding:

.none of the countries bordering china likes it ..

Pakistan is bordering China, Burma & Laos too, and also Nepal, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Khazarkstan and Russia. And Mongolia with North Korea are also bordering China. In my option, Theses countries at least have very normal international relationship with China despite some minor arguments. I believe that is at least as normal as India and Bangladesh.

Sometimes I wonder why Indian are so vulenerable. We Chinese don't care what indian will do in Arunāchal pradesh which claimed by China but was under India' actual control, we believe that border dispute can be resolved peacefully, by both side recognize the border de-facto. But it looks like that some Indian don't think so. Perhaps they believe "The land under by my actual control are undisputalbe mine,and the land under your actual control is mine too. " They may speak "resolve the problem peacefully", but they don't know how to take action to resolve, they just talk. The first step is recognise dispute, the dispute do exist, you can't simply ignore that, to China, we don't recognize Arunāchal pradesh are Indian territory, but we admit there are dispute, so not willing to retake it, If you want China to admit Arunāchal pradesh belongs to India, you must in exchange to recognize Aksai-Chin belongs to China. Compromise is simple the art of exchange.

India also admit that Maldives and Sri-lanka are both indepedent countries, so China refuse to treat them as vassal states of India. And China will feel OK if India cooperate with Vietnam and Philippine.

At last, I don't want to hurt you , I alway want to make Indian friends. But why do you want to show muscles to China again and again? Yes, Indian made great archievement since 1962, both in economy or millitary area. But on other hand, Was China really faded since 1962 ? Think it over.

Let's build friendship, and give up violence in mutual relationship, forever.

chenzhao wrote:you must in exchange to recognize Aksai-Chin belongs to China.

Aksai Chin is like a Moon. Nothing grows there, no body lives there. Chinese can show their big heart and gift it to "Union of India" It is small anyway and I want to do an off-road excursion there. Love that landscape.

Aksai Chin is like a Moon. Nothing grows there, no body lives there. Chinese can show their big heart and gift it to "Union of India" Laughing It is small anyway

—— To say at least, this thread is about Russo-Sino relationship, do you think it's a good idea to make discussion drift further and further ? And this forum is Russian millitary, both China and India are friends of Russia, Do you think it's very polite behavior that two guests keeping criticize each other loudly at host's parlor?

Ok I am out

chenzhao wrote:Regarding:

.none of the countries bordering china likes it ..

Pakistan is bordering China, Burma & Laos too, and also Nepal, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Khazarkstan and Russia. And Mongolia with North Korea are also bordering China. In my option, Theses countries at least have very normal international relationship with China despite some minor arguments. I believe that is at least as normal as India and Bangladesh.

Sometimes I wonder why Indian are so vulenerable. We Chinese don't care what indian will do in Arunāchal pradesh which claimed by China but was under India' actual control, we believe that border dispute can be resolved peacefully, by both side recognize the border de-facto. But it looks like that some Indian don't think so. Perhaps they believe "The land under by my actual control are undisputalbe mine,and the land under your actual control is mine too. " They may speak "resolve the problem peacefully", but they don't know how to take action to resolve, they just talk. The first step is recognise dispute, the dispute do exist, you can't simply ignore that, to China, we don't recognize Arunāchal pradesh are Indian territory, but we admit there are dispute, so not willing to retake it, If you want China to admit Arunāchal pradesh belongs to India, you must in exchange to recognize Aksai-Chin belongs to China. Compromise is simple the art of exchange.

India also admit that Maldives and Sri-lanka are both indepedent countries, so China refuse to treat them as vassal states of India. And China will feel OK if India cooperate with Vietnam and Philippine.

At last, I don't want to hurt you , I alway want to make Indian friends. But why do you want to show muscles to China again and again? Yes, Indian made great archievement since 1962, both in economy or millitary area. But on other hand, Was China really faded since 1962 ? Think it over.

Let's build friendship, and give up violence in mutual relationship, forever.

providing nukes and naval excercize 2 diff things and we do it in indian ocean ..anyway i dont want to get offtopic here ur welcome to open a new thread and iwill reply to all ur comments .....

I was under the impression Pakistan's nuclear program was largely home-grown, through espionage of the WEst and such?

TR1 wrote:I was under the impression Pakistan's nuclear program was largely home-grown, through espionage of the WEst and such?

no it was not most of the missiles are from china and northkorea ....
its one thing to have nukes and another to have the launch capability ....the later was provided by china ..
even the reactor centrifuge was provided by china

Former U.S. Air Force Secretary Thomas Reed knows nuclear bombs better than most people. For starters, he designed two of them when he worked at the Livermore National Laboratory as a weapons designer.

His new book The Nuclear Express: A Political History of the Bomb and Its Proliferation, co-written with Danny Stillman, the former director of the technical intelligence division at Los Alamos National Laboratory, rewrites much of the public understanding about how countries with nuclear weapons came to acquire them. All countries that built bombs, including the United States, spied on or were given access to the work of other nuclear powers. In particular, the book is a scathing indictment of the Chinese government, alleging that it intentionally proliferated nuclear technology to risky regimes, particularly Pakistan.

Reed recently spoke with U.S. News's Alex Kingsbury. Excerpts:

How has the Chinese government reacted to the allegations in your book?
At first, they objected to some of this reporting, which was first published in Physics Today, but they later withdrew all objections. The Chinese experts in the weapons labs were probably surprised that we found out all this information and were able to put it all together. In public they say one thing, but behind closed doors and after hours, they are more open. All scientists want the credit for having solved certain problems by themselves without outside help. In fact, in 1949 Klaus Fuchs spied for the Soviets at Los Alamos and when he was released from prison in 1959, fled to East Germany where he met China's chief atomic bomb scientist to whom he explained the inner workings of the Fat Man bomb [which the United States dropped on Nagasaki in 1945].

Why , as you say in the book, did the Chinese give the technology to Pakistan?
Pakistan can be explained by a balance of power: India was China's enemy and Pakistan was India's enemy. The Chinese did a massive training of Pakistani scientists, (just like the Russians had done for them) brought them to China for lectures, even gave them the design of the CHIC-4 device, which was a weapon that was easy to build a model for export. There is evidence that A.Q. Khan used Chinese designs in his nuclear designs. Notes from those lectures later turned up in Libya, for instance. And the Chinese did similar things for the Saudis, North Koreans, and the Algerians.

Did the Chinese further assist in the Pakistan program?
Under Pakistani president Benazir Bhutto, the country built its first functioning nuclear weapon. We believe that during Bhutto's term in office, the People's Republic of China tested Pakistan's first bomb for her in 1990.There are numerous reasons why we believe this to be true, including the design of the weapon and information gathered from discussions with Chinese nuclear experts. That's why the Pakistanis were so quick to respond to the Indian nuclear tests in 1998. It only took them two weeks and three days. When the Soviet Union took the United States by surprise with a test in 1961, it took the U.S. seventeen days to prepare and test, a device that had been on hand for years. The Pakistani response makes it clear that the gadget tested in May 1998 was a carefully engineered device in which they had great confidence.

I think the time of animosity between India and China is going to come to an end. China knows they cant commit a military strike against India due to Indias military capabilities (even if people state they use similar Russian equipmemt, Indian Su-30mki is significantly better than Su-30MKK), but also, both have a massive customer potential base and can make ridiculuous amount of $$$ from each other. Modi knows this and hence is looking to build business ties with China. It starts there. At one point, same was between Russia and China.

sepheronx wrote:I think the time of animosity between India and China is going to come to an end. China knows they cant commit a military strike against India due to Indias military capabilities (even if people state they use similar Russian equipmemt, Indian Su-30mki is significantly better than Su-30MKK), but also, both have a massive customer potential base and can make ridiculuous amount of $$$ from each other. Modi knows this and hence is looking to build business ties with China. It starts there. At one point, same was between Russia and China.

Fully agree

China Offers to Invest $300bn in India's Infrastructure Projects

Viktor wrote:

sepheronx wrote:I think the time of animosity between India and China is going to come to an end. China knows they cant commit a military strike against India due to Indias military capabilities (even if people state they use similar Russian equipmemt, Indian Su-30mki is significantly better than Su-30MKK), but also, both have a massive customer potential base and can make ridiculuous amount of $$$ from each other. Modi knows this and hence is looking to build business ties with China. It starts there. At one point, same was between Russia and China.

Fully agree

China Offers to Invest $300bn in India's Infrastructure Projects

This is a serious power play, now if India and China can reconcile their differences and Pakistan plays it smart and doesn't try to muddy the waters than virtually every one in mainland Asia could benefit from such an investment plan and cooperation, especially if it spawns the much theorized and fantasized silk road of fast rail and maglev rail that stems from southern India, through China and Russia (possibly even connecting the Korea's), in to Europe.

sepheronx wrote:I think the time of animosity between India and China is going to come to an end. China knows they cant commit a military strike against India due to Indias military capabilities (even if people state they use similar Russian equipmemt, Indian Su-30mki is significantly better than Su-30MKK), but also, both have a massive customer potential base and can make ridiculuous amount of $$$ from each other. Modi knows this and hence is looking to build business ties with China. It starts there. At one point, same was between Russia and China.

reality is most Chinese don't think india is our enomy or threat. even though we had fight but India treat us as enemy

I don't think India sees China as a threat either. I see both nations as brother and sisters, both are always "fighting", but their relations are actually good.

GarryB wrote:Both countries have a shared history of being dominated by the British, yet together they could be far more powerful than Britain ever was... not in the sense of doing what Britain did, which was resource focused, but in terms of improving the situation of the common man in both countries.

Both have very large populations and a serious risk of poor getting poorer and rich getting super rich.

Perhaps they could create shared goals of reducing poverty and helping the poor to help themselves through low interest loans and education and healthcare.

Shared goals would be a start...

India Pushes For Faster Border Rapprochement with China

India is aggressively pursuing a resolution of the border conflict with China. In fact, in a strategic shift India conveyed to China recently that solving the border problem is a priority to maintain cordial and smooth relations between the two countries.

Indian National Security Advisor Ajit Doval held the 19th round of Border Talks with his Chinese counterpart Yang Jiechi, Chinese State Councilor in China.

After the talks, both sides agreed to adhere to peaceful negotiations to settle boundary questions and to make efforts to reach a fair, reasonable and mutually acceptable solution.

For the first time, India is putting more much effort to solve the border issue with China. Earlier the Indian establishment was banking on the strategy that the border problems would be solved over time, improving along with economic and political relations with China, according to sources in the Defense Ministry.

Hence, National Security Adviser Ajit Doval's recent visit to China was very important in the sense that it marked a paradigm shift in India's strategy towards China.

According to the top sources in the Defense Ministry, during his meetings with his Chinese counterpart Ajit Doval conveyed that peace and tranquility along the border was a prerequisite to maintain a smooth and cordial relationship between the two countries. Frequent transgressions along the border would be a deterrent and in the long run would also impact bilateral, economic and political relations. India has also stressed that until the border problem was finalized both sides should maintain the status-quo.

In fact, India wants to speed up the process of the "Special Representative Talks" to reach an amicable solution to the border problem. The last 18 rounds of talks between the Special Representatives of both countries have not been particularly fruitful hence, India wants the border talks to become more focused and move in the direction of finding a solution to the boundary problem.

However, security experts do not sound very optimistic with China's approach and asserted that China is still sticking to its old strategy despite India's proactive approach.

"The first thing is that China has said that it has no border with India in Jammu and Kashmir. This means they still treat the area of Aksai Chin as disputed territory. There is no change in Chinese policy, they don't want to disturb the peace and tranquility of the border but simultaneously they will keep showing their assertiveness along the border," Major Gen (Rtd) Afsir Karim told Sputnik.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/asia/20160421/1038403932/india-border-rapprochement-china.html#ixzz46XT5aP8Z

India Moves Nearly One Hundred Tanks, Troops to Chinese Border

With tensions rising between China and India, New Delhi has deployed nearly 100 tanks to its eastern border.

The mountainous region of Ladakh, in northern India, lies in a tense location between disputed Kashmir and Tibet. In an effort to boost its military presence in the area, the Indian military has sent Russian-made T-72 tanks to Ladakh’s Chinese border.

"The vast flat valleys along the mountain ranges allow for armored movement; besides, there has been an increase in the force levels across the border," an unnamed military official told NDTV.

The tanks have undergone significant upgrades to be better outfitted for the region’s climate.

"We have procured special additives and lubricants for high-altitude terrain such as winter-grade diesel and additives for the lubrication system, which prevents it from freezing in the tank," Colonel Vijay Dalal told The Hindu.

This marks the third regiment placed in Ladakh by India since 2014.

Tensions between the neighbors have been building recently. Earlier this month, the Indian Navy deployed three ships to the South China Sea.

"The visiting ships are also likely to conduct exercises with the Royal Malaysian Navy aimed at enhancing interoperability in communication as well as Search and Rescue procedures," said a statement issued by India’s Defense Ministry.

Malaysia is currently at odds with China over territorial claims in the waterway.

Beijing and New Delhi are also competing over Nepal. While Nepalese Prime Minister Khadga Prasad Sharma Oli has expressed an interest in working more closely with the Chinese government, India is unlikely to surrender its own influence over Kathmandu.

http://sputniknews.com/asia/20160721/1043371135/india-china-ladakh-tanks.html