Russian Assault Rifles/Carbines/Machine Guns Thread: #1

Saiga MK-107 is the civilian version of the AK-107 with balanced recoil.

New AK-74M Model to Be Unveiled at Victory Day Parade in Moscow

Saturday's Victory Day parade in Moscow's Red Square will feature Russia's largest small arms Kalashnikov Concern manufacturer's modernized AK-74M assault rifle.

MOSCOW (Sputnik) — Saturday's Victory Day parade in Moscow's Red Square will feature Russia's largest small arms Kalashnikov Concern manufacturer's modernized AK-74M assault rifle, according to the company.

"This modern small-arms system can be adjusted for any tactical mission and will greatly expand the weapon's potential," Sergey Urzhumtsev, deputy CEO and Chief Designer, said in a statement published Wednesday on the company's website.

Kalashnikov Concern, part of state technologies corporation Rostec, promises a 50-percent increase in the AK-74M's accuracy at a distance of up to 300 meters (328 yards). The new modification is also expected to be fitted with a 40-mm grenade launcher and a bayonet.

Kalashnikov to Implement Production Development Program by 2020, Bring in Additional $54 Mln
Plans for AK-74M's mass production are currently in final stages of development, Kalashnikov Concern's statement adds.

The May 9 parade to commemorate the 70th anniversary of Nazi Germany's defeat in World War II will feature over 16,500 servicemen, nearly 200 units of military equipment and about 140 helicopters and planes.

Other military equipment to be unveiled at the parade include a new-generation Armata main battle tank with an unmanned remotely-controlled turret; the fifth-generation RS-24 Yars (NATO reporting name SS-29) intercontinental ballistic missile; high-end armored personnel carriers; high-precision self-propelled artillery systems; as well as the famous Sukhoi Su-30 (Flanker-C) and Sukhoi Su-35 (Flanker-E) fighter jets.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150507/1021803100.html#ixzz3ZRFOZuJY

Are You kidding me? I hope sputnik got the name wrong..

This years parade will be full of interesting stuff to keep an eye out for...

Up to now it has just been upgrades to existing types and the odd new item but this time around there should be plenty of new stuff to see...

BTW @Regular ...they only recently picked the AEK and AK12... you don't expect all the Russian soldiers to be carrying them do you?

Slapping some rails and optics on AK-74 won't make much improvement. One can say that AK-12 is final AK-74 modification. Damn it was more modified than M-16. Making kits for AKs that are already in service is one thing, but producing older design when there is a new one is stupid. Most likely Sputnik made a mistake.. I can only hope

Regular wrote:Slapping some rails and optics on AK-74 won't make much improvement. One can say that AK-12 is final AK-74 modification. Damn it was more modified than M-16. Making kits for AKs that are already in service is one thing, but producing older design when there is a new one is stupid. Most likely Sputnik made a mistake.. I can only hope

I don't really see the point of acquiring AK-12s for now if slapping some rails and optics can give ordinary AK-74s/AK-74Ms most of its features.

Russia still has millions upon millions of AK-74s. Might as well use them.

Yeah but article says that new AK-74 will be produced. It doesn't make sense when there are as you said millions of m2/m3. What would make sense is to take existing weapons, refurbish them and put them back into service. All 74s can be brought up to AK-74MR official standard for quite cheap while production line could be left for AK-12.

Early model MR



Late model MR


Does it require to new rifle? Can it be done with the old rifles?

It pisses me off the way this new rifle thing is going on, worse than with uniforms if You ask me. Reminds me when amerikanskis tried to adopt new rifle. For 20 years and counting!

I doubt that they are going to be 'produced' in that sense; as in new rifles being produced by Kalashnikov Concern. AFAIK, the only thing they will be producing are brand-new AK-12s.

The plan always called for a modernization of existing AK-74 series rifles, that was able to be performed on-site in the existing workshops of military units.

I believe I just read the same thing again somewhere.

I really really hope there won't be any additional delays regarding the AK-12. Not only is it splendid on paper, it also has beautiful aesthetics. Why modernize modernized weapons when you have a new ready-to-be-manufactured assault rifle? Kalashnikov are basically competing against themselves.

Arctic_Fox posted these in the photos and video thread

AK-74M upgraded

Slapping some rails and optics on AK-74 won't make much improvement.

Don't know about you but a scope always makes it easier to shoot at a target... instead of focussing on the front iron sight with the target all blurry you can focus on the crosshair and see the target at the same time...

You can also start introducing new optics and can be sure they can actually be used on the rifles... and when the AK12s are available they can transfer all the pistol grips and sights and rail mounted systems onto their new rifles.

I don't really see the point of acquiring AK-12s for now if slapping some rails and optics can give ordinary AK-74s/AK-74Ms most of its features.

It doesn't. But it means optics and rail mounted kit can start to be made and used now instead of having to wait till Ak12s and AEKs are in service.

The troops should be getting the best available... and if the best available is an upgraded AK-74M3 then I have no problem with that... the AK12 and AEK wont replace the AK-74 over night so upgrading the in service Ak-74s makes a lot of sense as long as it doesn't cost too much... and I doubt it would.

the ability to use new attachments and test new attachments in the field is a good thing and will hopefully lead to good feedback to further improve the add on equipment.

If they can introduce Ratnik in 3 years then upgrading AKs and introducing AK12s and AEKs shouldn't take too long either. No longer required upgraded AKs can be sold off to allies... or passed over the border perhaps...

Why would they mass produce such shitty kits when Zenitco can do a damn better job?

Looks like a very iffy attempt at UAS's stock.

I am impressed you can tell how good something is just by looking at it....

If it has adjustable length and raisable cheek piece and still folds then it is rather better than the old fixed stock.

equally the purpose of the rails is to allow optics to be fitted easily... if it does that... then it does enough.

It likely wont look pretty because it will likely be cheap/affordable.

Regular wrote:Yeah but article says that new AK-74 will be produced. It doesn't make sense when there are as you said millions of m2/m3. What would make sense is to take existing weapons, refurbish them and put them back into service. All 74s can be brought up to AK-74MR official standard for quite cheap while production line could be left for AK-12.

Just following on, it looks like what will be produced are the upgrade kits, not rifles themselves.

GarryB wrote:I am impressed you can tell how good something is just by looking at it....

If it has adjustable length and raisable cheek piece and still folds then it is rather better than the old fixed stock.

equally the purpose of the rails is to allow optics to be fitted easily... if it does that... then it does enough.

It likely wont look pretty because it will likely be cheap/affordable.

I can because I've seen the UAS stock and it was already so so when made by Israel's finest. The kits look shitty and the finishing touches on the PVC are god awful. There is a far better variant already off the shelf. It's Russian and doesn't cost a fortune (whole mod would cost about 300 USD for export).

The issue is that all the rails don't adress the inherent shift from the original design. There's a reason why most of the better kits involving the AK original desing do not use the gas tube as a straight support.
Even better, they slap a 1200 USD LCC-3 FROM Zenitco and 100 USD bubbaed black furniture. This is indeed Russian MOD.

Why would they buy anything valued in US Dollars?

Are you saying you are not opposed to an upgrade, but you object to them choosing one you don't approve of?

Perhaps they don't want to give work to Zenitco and want Kalashnikov to do the upgrades on their Kalashnikov rifles?

GarryB wrote:Why would they buy anything valued in US Dollars?

Are you saying you are not opposed to an upgrade, but you object to them choosing one you don't approve of?

Perhaps they don't want to give work to Zenitco and want Kalashnikov to do the upgrades on their Kalashnikov rifles?

That's my reference point...the sight costs 60 000 RUB. And probably is the biggest part of the cost. Roughly 60% if the cost is indeed about 100K RUB.
I'm not opposed to the upgrade, I'm opposed to the corner cutting. We're not talking poultry here, we're talking about lives.

The problem is that most of those upgrades, by the look of the molding and shaping will be done within a year or so. One thing that is nuke proof on the AK's is the damn black furniture. And it is VERY polished at that. This however is wow-level of crap and probably will start to falter if the rails on the hadguard aren't metal or arent properly embeded.

Plus...They already HAVE a way better product.



Including VERY effective buttstock, overlapping rail and handguard. Russian MOD being itself again.

flamming_python wrote:

Regular wrote:Yeah but article says that new AK-74 will be produced. It doesn't make sense when there are as you said millions of m2/m3. What would make sense is to take existing weapons, refurbish them and put them back into service. All 74s can be brought up to AK-74MR official standard for quite cheap while production line could be left for AK-12.

Just following on, it looks like what will be produced are the upgrade kits, not rifles themselves.

Good news then

KoTeMoRe wrote:

GarryB wrote:Why would they buy anything valued in US Dollars?

Are you saying you are not opposed to an upgrade, but you object to them choosing one you don't approve of?

Perhaps they don't want to give work to Zenitco and want Kalashnikov to do the upgrades on their Kalashnikov rifles?

That's my reference point...the sight costs 60 000 RUB. And probably is the biggest part of the cost. Roughly 60% if the cost is indeed about 100K RUB.
I'm not opposed to the upgrade, I'm opposed to the corner cutting. We're not talking poultry here, we're talking about lives.

The problem is that most of those upgrades, by the look of the molding and shaping will be done within a year or so. One thing that is nuke proof on the AK's is the damn black furniture. And it is VERY polished at that. This however is wow-level of crap and probably will start to falter if the rails on the hadguard aren't metal or arent properly embeded.

Plus...They already HAVE a way better product.



Including VERY effective buttstock, overlapping rail and handguard. Russian MOD being itself again.

Yeah, now I wonder why they went with M4 type of buttstock when they have better domestic design. Upgrade indeed looks flimsy. But it's better than nothing anyways.

Furthermore the proposed "upgrade" isn't one. Because the rifles shown aren't AK-74M's they look like pre 85 74's bubbaed to look like 74M's. Look at the end receiver. There is no folding button ON the receiver. This is a monstruosity that can't be explained without photoshop. While in the parade you can clearly see the Folding button.

So what the actual hell is going on?

A cheap upgrade needs to be cheap...

If it is not soldier proof they will soon find out and perhaps learn new lessons they will apply to other systems they buy.

or they might continue to make the same mistakes over and over.

The point is that if they think it is worth it putting rails on rifles then clearly they want to do that for a reason and that reason is not to look tacticool.. but to allow optics to be more easily fitted to their rifles... which alone is a good thing IMHO.

KoTeMoRe wrote:Furthermore the proposed "upgrade" isn't one. Because the rifles shown aren't AK-74M's they look like pre 85 74's bubbaed to look like 74M's. Look at the end receiver. There is no folding button ON the receiver. This is a monstruosity that can't be explained without photoshop. While in the parade you can clearly see the Folding button.

So what the actual hell is going on?

Makes perfect sense, given that later-model AK-74s (the ones with a plum-finish) are still by and large the main assault rifle used in the Russian military. I'd imagine that AK-74Ms are mainly only found in front-line units and ones at high levels of readiness. An-94s and whatever else are downright rare.

So why would you only want to upgrade AK-74Ms and not the millions of AK-74s still around in unit armouries and storage depots?

The baseline AK-74 BTW has nowhere to clip optics on. This is a military, in 2015, that still can't use scopes on most of its rifles. Not good.

Now though, everyone gets to have tacticool rifles and perhaps scopes and other accessories too.

flamming_python wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Furthermore the proposed "upgrade" isn't one. Because the rifles shown aren't AK-74M's they look like pre 85 74's bubbaed to look like 74M's. Look at the end receiver. There is no folding button ON the receiver. This is a monstruosity that can't be explained without photoshop. While in the parade you can clearly see the Folding button.

So what the actual hell is going on?

Makes perfect sense, given that later-model AK-74s (the ones with a plum-finish) are still by and large the main assault rifle used in the Russian military. I'd imagine that AK-74Ms are mainly only found in front-line units and ones at high levels of readiness. An-94s and whatever else are downright rare.

So why would you only want to upgrade AK-74Ms and not the millions of AK-74s still around in unit armouries and storage depots?

The baseline AK-74 BTW has nowhere to clip optics on. This is a military, in 2015, that still can't use scopes on most of its rifles. Not good.

Now though, everyone gets to have tacticool rifles and perhaps scopes and other accessories too.

Again, I don't think the "upgrade" is needed. The old rifles would need an extensive upgrade, not only a gimick. They have slapped a LCC that is worth the rifle itself, Twice. These kits are general. As shown in the parade, these kits are for every AK74 out there. BUt then again, the idea here is to make those rifles more effective. having cheekpads on 40 yo rifles and overlapping rails will not change much inherently. Ukropians are a body of evidence than the AK lends itself really badly to "upgrades" if they aren't optimized for the said platform.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Furthermore the proposed "upgrade" isn't one. Because the rifles shown aren't AK-74M's they look like pre 85 74's bubbaed to look like 74M's. Look at the end receiver. There is no folding button ON the receiver. This is a monstruosity that can't be explained without photoshop. While in the parade you can clearly see the Folding button.

So what the actual hell is going on?

Makes perfect sense, given that later-model AK-74s (the ones with a plum-finish) are still by and large the main assault rifle used in the Russian military. I'd imagine that AK-74Ms are mainly only found in front-line units and ones at high levels of readiness. An-94s and whatever else are downright rare.

So why would you only want to upgrade AK-74Ms and not the millions of AK-74s still around in unit armouries and storage depots?

The baseline AK-74 BTW has nowhere to clip optics on. This is a military, in 2015, that still can't use scopes on most of its rifles. Not good.

Now though, everyone gets to have tacticool rifles and perhaps scopes and other accessories too.

Again, I don't think the "upgrade" is needed. The old rifles would need an extensive upgrade, not only a gimick. They have slapped a LCC that is worth the rifle itself, Twice. These kits are general. As shown in the parade, these kits are for every AK74 out there. BUt then again, the idea here is to make those rifles more effective. having cheekpads on 40 yo rifles and overlapping rails will not change much inherently. Ukropians are a body of evidence than the AK lends itself really badly to "upgrades" if they aren't optimized for the said platform.

I disagree; a modest, cheap upgrade is what's needed and even this will considerably augment the firepower options available to the standard rank and file with 'just' AK-74s.
Now, equipping and training with scopes at firing ranges is an option, flash-light attachments, etc... all these things need not be expensive either - the point is that options and versatility will expand considerably. Now even a driver-mechanic serving in an auto-platoon can get trained with and equipped with a scope if he needs it; SVDs are rare for troops in such positions so scopes will help them make do with what they have.

flamming_python wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Furthermore the proposed "upgrade" isn't one. Because the rifles shown aren't AK-74M's they look like pre 85 74's bubbaed to look like 74M's. Look at the end receiver. There is no folding button ON the receiver. This is a monstruosity that can't be explained without photoshop. While in the parade you can clearly see the Folding button.

So what the actual hell is going on?

Makes perfect sense, given that later-model AK-74s (the ones with a plum-finish) are still by and large the main assault rifle used in the Russian military. I'd imagine that AK-74Ms are mainly only found in front-line units and ones at high levels of readiness. An-94s and whatever else are downright rare.

So why would you only want to upgrade AK-74Ms and not the millions of AK-74s still around in unit armouries and storage depots?

The baseline AK-74 BTW has nowhere to clip optics on. This is a military, in 2015, that still can't use scopes on most of its rifles. Not good.

Now though, everyone gets to have tacticool rifles and perhaps scopes and other accessories too.

Again, I don't think the "upgrade" is needed. The old rifles would need an extensive upgrade, not only a gimick. They have slapped a LCC that is worth the rifle itself, Twice. These kits are general. As shown in the parade, these kits are for every AK74 out there. BUt then again, the idea here is to make those rifles more effective. having cheekpads on 40 yo rifles and overlapping rails will not change much inherently. Ukropians are a body of evidence than the AK lends itself really badly to "upgrades" if they aren't optimized for the said platform.

I disagree; a modest, cheap upgrade is what's needed and even this will considerably augment the firepower options available to the standard rank and file with 'just' AK-74s.
Now, equipping and training with scopes at firing ranges is an option, flash-light attachments, etc... all these things need not be expensive either - the point is that options and versatility will expand considerably. Now even a driver-mechanic serving in an auto-platoon can get trained with and equipped with a scope if he needs it; SVDs are rare for troops in such positions so scopes will help them make do with what they have.

"Cheap upgrade" costs twice the rifle. Furthermore there are roughly 3 to 5 million 74M's and post 85 rifles. Rails from Zenitco are in the range of 10K RUB for an over/under. If the goal is to slap a 100 USD C-sight or red dot fine. The obzor/rakurs is already under 150 USD. But here what I smell is the attempt to go all Israeli and postpone at max the induction of new materiel by putting lipstick on a pig. Oh and if the idea is to have the third line guy sport optics so to make him look cool, or insure he can fight somehow, then it is the whole doctrine that is fvcked.