PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

Militarov wrote:

Pierre Sprey wrote:

Militarov wrote:

KomissarBojanchev wrote:However I fully expected the Su-57 to have equal or superior front and side RCS compared to the F-22 and F-35.

Wouldnt go that far. US has far greater experience in these matters than Russia, to start with, they invested almost 5 decades into research of this area. Amount of detail they went into making aircraft descrete as possible is just mindblowing. I dont expect Russian ever going to such lenghts regarding it.

Russians tend to have "Its good enough" approach to things in everything.

No actually. This is a load of nonsense. Faux objectivity.  

Russia invented stealth. Look it up.

The YF 23 had better all aspect stealth than the F-22. The su 57 has more in common with the YF 23 than the F-22. True blend wing with podded engines and no traditional fuselage.

The F-22 is a F-15 with LO features. Its nothing special. Yet you think it is. You were fooled by the hype. But the US stronkists claim it as their trophy for winning the cold war. No matter what Russia does, it will never be good enough. Even if they build a better plane which they have.

You lost all your credibility when you said "Russians invented stealth"... seriously man. Is like saying Serbians invented electricity.

F-22 and F-15 have so many differences in their design that i can literally say that F-22 is actually MiG-25 with LO features because they both have wings and two engines. Delta-wing designs tend to look alike you know, because.. you know... delta fucking wings.

In regard of this particular niche of technology... yes.

Militarov wrote:[img]https://i.img

S-duct looks like this. There are also photos of AMCA S-duct casted mockups.

Its just different approach to the problem, there are reasons for and aganist both solutions, its the tradeoff.

Pierre Sprey wrote:

Militarov wrote:[img]https://i.img

S-duct looks like this. There are also photos of AMCA S-duct casted mockups.

Its just different approach to the problem, there are reasons for and aganist both solutions, its the tradeoff.

Who the hell are you to declare that the S duct setup is better for stealth than the podded engines/offset intake with true blend wing design ?  

The YF-23 had better all aspect stealth than the F-22 as per US reports. The F-117 was a true blend wing. The SR 71 was LO and it has the podded engines/true blend wing too. The true blend wing gives the jet a lower profile and less surfaces. ie better for stealth.

The F-22 has the bulky S duct setup because its a traditional jet with two engines side by side and a fuselage built around them. You cant have a true blend wing with the bulky S duct setup.

Azi wrote:
Sensor fission, situation awareness, helmet mount off axis targeting and data collection and so on is new buzzword for the US, but it is a 70 thing for the Soviet airforce.

So, nothing new here.

Isos wrote:
If stealth is so good US would yave since long ago used only B-2 armed with 250km amraam and AESA radar but they didn't.

Pierre Sprey wrote:

You just lost your credibility by not bothering to look it up.

From Wiki. US approved Wiki :

Pyotr Yakovlevich Ufimtsev (Russian: Пётр Я́ковлевич Уфи́мцев) (born 1931 in Ust-Charyshskaya Pristan, West Siberian Krai, now Altai Krai) is a Soviet/Russian physicist and mathematician, considered the seminal force behind modern stealth aircraft technology. In the 1960s he began developing equations for predicting the reflection of electromagnetic waves from simple two-dimensional and three-dimensional objects.[1]
Much of Ufimtsev's work was translated into English, and in the 1970s American Lockheed engineers began to expand upon some of his theories to create the concept of aircraft with reduced radar signatures.[2]

Pierre Sprey wrote:

Militarov wrote:[img]https://i.img

S-duct looks like this. There are also photos of AMCA S-duct casted mockups.

Its just different approach to the problem, there are reasons for and aganist both solutions, its the tradeoff.

Who the hell are you to declare that the S duct setup is better for stealth than the podded engines/offset intake with true blend wing design ?  

Hole wrote:The radar antenna of the Su-57 is tilted upwards by 15° so it doesn´t reflect radar waves from other aircraft.

In the end stealth is like democracy or human rights: you have it when Amiland says so.

Isos wrote:A big issue with stealth is the radar itself. It is in front of the jet and is a almost 1 m in diameter and you can't make it stealth. Some people say the nosecone allows only few frequency to go through but AESA radar use lot of frequencies in the x band  so russian signals should go through it and go back without being absorbed, same with US signal against su-57.

And I don't believe they can make a material leting through many different frequencies, they could make it for one more or less large band around a frequency but not for many different frequencies.

Militarov wrote:

Pierre Sprey wrote:

You just lost your credibility by not bothering to look it up.

From Wiki. US approved Wiki :

Pyotr Yakovlevich Ufimtsev (Russian: Пётр Я́ковлевич Уфи́мцев) (born 1931 in Ust-Charyshskaya Pristan, West Siberian Krai, now Altai Krai) is a Soviet/Russian physicist and mathematician, considered the seminal force behind modern stealth aircraft technology. In the 1960s he began developing equations for predicting the reflection of electromagnetic waves from simple two-dimensional and three-dimensional objects.[1]
Much of Ufimtsev's work was translated into English, and in the 1970s American Lockheed engineers began to expand upon some of his theories to create the concept of aircraft with reduced radar signatures.[2]

I dont need to look up anything, i am well aware of Ufimtsev i even own his book on radio wave scatter theory, that however is not stealth, its math, theory. And Russians never widely accepted his work in the field, his mathematical models were used by...guess who... Americans. His work would have never reach any fruit if it wasnt for certain figures in the US that recognised the value of his work and translated it for USAF. He was visiting professor on US universities, he lived there post USSR collapse. So no, Russians did not "invent stealth" as stealth is alot more than wave theory, as it includes everything from metalurgical to thermodynamics in order to achieve LO characteristics.

It took two decades of research and development based on his scatter theory for it to become useful and applicable.

And if you had used the organ between your ears you would figure that my electricity invented by Serbians was the reference to Ufimtsev.

Tesla...Serbia...electricity... USSR... reference.

Ufimtsev is father of scatter wave theory, its mathematical core, one hell of mathematician, but thats it. Its applications go far beyond design of LO objects.

For SU-57 have created invisible glass

In Obninsk the unique covering for glasses twice reducing their radar visibility is developed. Development is planned to be used in warplanes of Russian Air Forces - first of all, in the hardly noticeable fighter of the fifth generation SU-57.

Cabin lamp - one of the main unmasking elements of any aircraft as glass badly absorbs radio waves. The Obninsk NPP Tekhnologiya of A.G. Romashin has created the composition from metals and their oxides helping to solve this problem.

The nanodimensional covering consists of a set of the thinnest films applied in a vacuum on an external surface of a lamp with method of magnetron dusting. The composition is more effective than the existing analogs: absorbing radio waves, it provides a high svetopropuskaniye and reduces reflection that improves visibility in night-time.

- This development practically has no weak points. Its application will allow to lose twice the weight of glazing of a cabin of the pilot and to increase its crash-worthiness. Podgloshcheniye of radio waves from radars increases from 40 to 80 percent that cuts the range of detection of the plane by half, - Sergey Abramov, the industrial director of a cluster of conventional arms, ammunition and to special chemistry of Rostec state corporation which includes "Technology" has told.

Residents of Obninsk managed to solve also a problem of fixing of a covering on glass that has increased its resistance to a stream of counter air. By the way, weak adhesion expensive a stealth covering - an Achilles' heel of the American F-22 fighters. After several flights they need to be recoloured.

d_taddei2 wrote:Quick question and sorry if it has been asked before and I know that it's a kinda hard to give a proper answer hence am asking for estimated answer.

Does anyone know rough price tag for the Su-57 I believe it's supposed to be cheaper than F-22 and F-35.

Also capabilities in regards to F-35 & F-22?

And finally what's the chances of Turkey getting it?