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    PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

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    marcellogo

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  marcellogo on Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:14 am

    Austin wrote:The state bench tests of the AL-41F-1 engine have been completed

    As reported in the press release of United Engine-Building Corporation JSC , the final meeting of the State Commission for the turbojet engine AL-41F-1 concluded with the solemn presentation of the PJSC "UDK-UMPO" (part of the United Engine Corporation of Rostekh) to complete the state bench tests an experienced engine. The ceremony was held in the Moscow branch of the enterprise - the Experimental Design Bureau. A. Lyulka.



    The engine AL-41F-1 in the territory of PJSC "UDK-UMPO", January 2018 (c) bmpd

    Chairman of the State Commission Colonel VA. Bruskov handed over to the general designer-director of the OKB im. A. Lyulki E.Yu. Marchukov the document testifying to the end of the most important stage in the development of AL-41F-1.

    Thus, 14-year experimental design work is completed. The AL-41F-1 performs the function of the first stage engine for the fifth-generation fighter Su-57 (PAK FA). The first test flight of PAK FA with AL-41F-1 took place on January 29, 2010.

    Seems me that even the F135 engine is still performing Bench test, so nothing extraordinary there.
    Bench test serves also for certify the engine expected service life, in order to ascertain maintenance and overhaul costs and to offer it in the export market also.
    Obviously, in this case you just cannot speed up development phase building more prototypes or adopting a tighter schedule than the one it would have during their own expected service life, so it takes time.
    Maybe only critic someone could possibly do is whyto perform it until the end now that is about 100% certain there would not be a serial production of this engine.
    Well, almost for (russian and indian) Su-57. Wink
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    George1

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  George1 on Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:40 am

    9th flying Su-57 prototype that was deployed to Khmeimim on 21.02.18.
    It made its maiden flight on 6.08.17.
    T-50-11's bort no." 511 Blue" was removed from the fuselage & vertical stabilizers but RF-81775 reg. no. was added to the latter prior to the Syrian deployment.



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    George1

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  George1 on Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:53 pm



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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  George1 on Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:59 pm

    Su-57 prototypes 053,054 & 055 Blue at Zhukovsky during rehearsals for the Victory Day Parade flyover over Moscow. Note the recently applied pixelated livery on "055 Blue".
    PAKFA 2018 ©️TVZvezda





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    George1

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  George1 on Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:57 am

    Fresh image of a fifth flying Su-57 prototype - 055 Blue - during rehearsals for the Moscow Victory Day Parade flyover. Sporting a distinct new pixelated livery - recently applied to, most likely, coincide with the aforementioned event.



    https://twitter.com/Russian_Defence/status/988455830411534336


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    LMFS

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  LMFS on Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:32 am

    I'm seriously in love:



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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Big_Gazza on Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:57 am

    Yup, she's a good looking girl, and I'll bet she's frisky where it counts... Very Happy

    ..unlike that ugly fat bitch F-35 with her Hangar Queen mentality. A high-maintenance, arrogant, lazy cow who needs constant attention and who you'll need a second job simply to afford her insatiable appetite for the finer things of life. Twisted Evil
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    kvs

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  kvs on Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:59 am

    If this was some NATO fanboi forum, dozens of 'tards would queue in to post that all Russian equipment is mass produced junk.
    In reality, NATO is achieving the impossible: super expensive mass produced junk.
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    GarryB

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  GarryB on Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:08 am

    That photo in post 606... does it have two different engine types?

    Or is it just one engine nozzle in a different thrust setting...

    The further away engine looks longer and the nozzle edge looks slightly serrated...


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    Isos

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Isos on Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:50 am

    GarryB wrote:That photo in post 606... does it have two different engine types?

    Or is it just one engine nozzle in a different thrust setting...

    The further away engine looks longer and the nozzle edge looks slightly serrated...

    It's clearly twi different engines. You can see the colours and the geometry is different.

    I think the right one us the newest izd 30 being tested because it is shorter than the previous one.
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    LMFS

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  LMFS on Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:53 am

    GarryB wrote:That photo in post 606... does it have two different engine types?

    Or is it just one engine nozzle in a different thrust setting...

    The further away engine looks longer and the nozzle edge looks slightly serrated...

    This is prototype 02, flying lab with prod. 30 on board! First flight was in December last year, though it is true that the new engine seemed shorter back then...

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    GarryB

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  GarryB on Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:47 am

    Are you guys sure... it looks to me that the further away engine is the longest and the one with the serrated nose cone for stealth...

    Doesn't also have about 18 tons of thrust compared with 14.5 tons for the standard AL-41....


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    Hole

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Hole on Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:39 am

    The left one is the new one. Look at the other picture.
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    JohninMK

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  JohninMK on Tue May 01, 2018 9:44 pm

    Another pretty good write-up in Drive, as you can gather from the title.

    http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/20434/no-the-su-57-isnt-junk-six-features-we-like-on-russias-new-fighter
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue May 01, 2018 9:50 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Another pretty good write-up in Drive, as you can gather from the title.

    http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/20434/no-the-su-57-isnt-junk-six-features-we-like-on-russias-new-fighter

    Seriously, what is up with Rogoway lately with all these passable articles about Russian military tech? He is usually full of 100% BS.

    First Offshore Patrol Vessel and now Su-57.

    Did someone spike his koolaid?  Suspect
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    Hole

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Hole on Tue May 01, 2018 10:15 pm

    It must be russian meddling.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed May 02, 2018 2:02 am

    JohninMK wrote:Another pretty good write-up in Drive, as you can gather from the title.

    http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/20434/no-the-su-57-isnt-junk-six-features-we-like-on-russias-new-fighter

    No, its the same old belittling BS, just with a few reality-based admissions that are delivered in a begrudging fashion... and then he compensates for his excursion into reality by reinforcing the usual talking points like inferior stealth, engine "issues", lack of sensor fusion, India doesn't want it... blah blah blah

    Above all else, you have to give the Russians some credit for taking new risks with their design and incorporating innovative concepts into it, even if doing so came as a result of lacking critical low observable design knowledge and manufacturing capabilities.

    Seriously?? "some" credit?... "lacking" knowledge?.... oh dear, what a fucking idiot. It should be crystal CLEAR that the Russians understand VLO technologies very well (its basic physics, not black magic), but they have judged that the costs of US-style stealth are excessive compared to the advantage obtained, and that new radar and sensor technologies will degrade that advantage further. Exceptionalist idiots like Rogoway just don't get it, and likely never will...
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    LMFS

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  LMFS on Wed May 02, 2018 2:15 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:Another pretty good write-up in Drive, as you can gather from the title.

    http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/20434/no-the-su-57-isnt-junk-six-features-we-like-on-russias-new-fighter

    No, its the same old belittling BS, just with a few reality-based admissions that are delivered in a begrudging fashion...  and then he compensates for his excursion into reality by reinforcing the usual talking points like inferior stealth, engine "issues", lack of sensor fusion, India doesn't want it...  blah blah blah

    Above all else, you have to give the Russians some credit for taking new risks with their design and incorporating innovative concepts into it, even if doing so came as a result of lacking critical low observable design knowledge and manufacturing capabilities.

    Seriously??  "some" credit?...   "lacking" knowledge?....  oh dear, what a fucking idiot.  It should be crystal CLEAR that the Russians understand VLO technologies very well (its basic physics, not black magic), but they have judged that the costs of US-style stealth are excessive compared to the advantage obtained, and that new radar and sensor technologies will degrade that advantage further.   Exceptionalist idiots like Rogoway just don't get it, and likely never will...

    Without wanting to be harsh on Rogoway, who has done some very decent analyses IMO, sadly you are right in what regards to anything that has to do with the Russians. It seems hardwired in many Americans that acknowledging any merit to Russia is intrinsically anti patriotic. In this case, Russians have been doing RCS measurements since decades and the mathematical basis of analytical VLO design was developed by a Russian, so yes, talking about their lack of LO knowledge while the American stealth fighters have a dismal availability rate of 50% or below (AFAIK the F-22 needs some 30 hours of work on ground per flying hour) is definitely absurd. To put it provocatively, if Russians manage to deploy an actual war-capable machine with the Su-57 instead an expensive toy like F-22 and F-35 they may well be the first ones in having a "real" 5th generation fighter in their arsenal.

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    LMFS

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  LMFS on Wed May 02, 2018 2:15 am

    Some thoughts about FGFA and Izd. 30:

    https://www.rbth.com/science-and-tech/328127-no-deal-why-russia-wont-create-indian-su57

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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed May 02, 2018 6:51 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:Another pretty good write-up in Drive, as you can gather from the title.

    http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/20434/no-the-su-57-isnt-junk-six-features-we-like-on-russias-new-fighter

    No, its the same old belittling BS, just with a few reality-based admissions that are delivered in a begrudging fashion...  and then he compensates for his excursion into reality by reinforcing the usual talking points like inferior stealth, engine "issues", lack of sensor fusion, India doesn't want it...  blah blah blah

    Above all else, you have to give the Russians some credit for taking new risks with their design and incorporating innovative concepts into it, even if doing so came as a result of lacking critical low observable design knowledge and manufacturing capabilities.

    Seriously??  "some" credit?...   "lacking" knowledge?....  oh dear, what a fucking idiot.  It should be crystal CLEAR that the Russians understand VLO technologies very well (its basic physics, not black magic), but they have judged that the costs of US-style stealth are excessive compared to the advantage obtained, and that new radar and sensor technologies will degrade that advantage further.   Exceptionalist idiots like Rogoway just don't get it, and likely never will...

    I refused to read the article. He talked about sensor-fusion, stealth inferiority lol? Let me guess, the article is probably devoid of any talks of Su-57 installing ROFAR smart-skin sensor fusion suite (which KRET said will happen in the 2020's)? Just a friendly reminder ROFAR will give the Su-57 radar superiority even over NATO AWACS, it's been suggested by KRET that a ROFAR array the size of a compact car, would have the same radiating abilities of a 20-story OTH radar. I'm also guessing that there wasn't even any discussion of a EM opaque smoke generator that could be installed near the thrust nozzles?
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    LMFS

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    Rear facing RADAR in the Su-57?

    Post  LMFS on Thu May 03, 2018 2:11 am

    Does anybody know with some certainty what kind of equipment is housed at the sting of the Su-57? Given the radiation symbol it is clear that some emitter is placed there, but it is unclear to me whether this is ECM equipment (apparently L402 uses the H036 RADAR antennas) or a proper rear-facing RADAR:






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    Hole

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Hole on Thu May 03, 2018 11:20 am

    L402 Himalaya ECM system.
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    LMFS

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  LMFS on Thu May 03, 2018 1:59 pm

    Hole wrote:L402 Himalaya ECM system.

    Thanks for the answer Hole, there is very little detail available about L402



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    Hole

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  Hole on Thu May 03, 2018 4:36 pm

    Because it is top secret. Apparently it will also use the antennas of the radar System.

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  havok on Fri May 04, 2018 4:05 pm

    LMFS wrote:It seems hardwired in many Americans that acknowledging any merit to Russia is intrinsically anti patriotic.
    That is where you are wrong. Seriously wrong. When I was active duty, we look forward to seeing Soviet jets. We have no problems giving praise where it is due. Of all the jets we hands-on examined, and we got lots of them, the exception that we really were negatively critical was the MIG-25. Belenko's defection was before my time, but our squadron was given a chance to see the full technical break-out of the jet and the -25 was a PoS.

    LMFS wrote:In this case, Russians have been doing RCS measurements since decades and the mathematical basis of analytical VLO design was developed by a Russian,...
    That is NOT true. I have Ufimtsev's text on my bookshelf. It certainly was not any sort of 'cookbook' for designing VLO shapes. If that is what you were implying. All Ufimtsev did was fleshed out the mathematical behaviors of reflections. Inferring any sort of military values to his work was the responsibility of the Soviet military and they fooked up. Live with it.

    LMFS wrote:...so yes, talking about their lack of LO knowledge while the American stealth fighters have a dismal availability rate of 50% or below (AFAIK the F-22 needs some 30 hours of work on ground per flying hour) is definitely absurd.
    This is where you are wrong. Seriously wrong.

    If I tell you that it takes 5 man-hrs to tow one aircraft from one spot to another, would you believe me? Not likely. But that is what goes in the maintenance record and it is the truth.

    You need the crew chief, tow truck driver, two wing walkers, and one tail walker. If you have no idea of what I just said, then your ignorance made my point. It will take at least 15-20 min to prep a jet for towing, then another 15-20 min to move it from one spot on the ramp to another, or to move it from the ramp to the hangar.

    In peacetime, maintenance standards are high and QA roams the flightline. But in wartime, restrictions are loosened. Even those in civilian aviation maintenance do not take criticisms like yours seriously. You simply do not know what you are talking about.

    LMFS wrote:To put it provocatively, if Russians manage to deploy an actual war-capable machine with the Su-57 instead an expensive toy like F-22 and F-35 they may well be the first ones in having a "real" 5th generation fighter in their arsenal.
    You mean the Su is the real toy.

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