Russian Infantry Units size and formation

franco wrote:

danny wrote:Hi
1. does someone maybe have a modern taskorganisation and equipment table for the recconaissance company's in a motorized rifle and tank regiment? are there differences between the two? and are there differences when the unit is equipped with bmp's, BTR's or MTLB's?
2. does someone maybe have the same but then for the recce battallions of a brigade or a division? like forinstance the 136th recce battallion of the 2nd guards and the 137th reccefor the 4th guards tank?

kind greetz

This was the original Org mentioned on line when the new brigade org was established a few years back:

Recon company   129(6 CO -20 NCO -103 OR ) 
    HQ of company  9(1-4-4) 
    3x Recon platoon  25(1-3-21) 
    RT recon platoon  19(1-3-15) 
    ELINT platoon 26(1-4-21) 

Then it was decided that this was not enough and it was converted to a battalion of:
   2 reconnaissance companies and
   1 RT/Elint company

In addition, a brigade had a separate sniper platoon/company and an UAV company. These along with the reconnaissance battalion are coordinated by a brigade center.

Really do not have anything on the regimental structure but the old Red Army was a company around 60.

As for equipment suspect it would be a company of Tigr and a company of whatever the brigade is operating.

Having saw also your reply about the SHORAD air defence I would argue that in case of Recon troops the regiments, being not an independent unit simply has not need of an independent unit as it can pool on divisional assets.

In case of basic AD situation is reversed: at each organisational level there is a distint layer of defense but they doesn't stack in reverse, so in case of a division there is the need to both divisional level layer to cover the whole unit but also SHORAD assets akin the regimental ones more to cover the centralized and support forces of the division itself.

A question more: also recon units at regimental and brigade level are still part of GRU and consequently of the Stavka or are they a specific troop of the Ground Forces?
And Sniper and UAV separate units belong to what Troops respectively?

marcellogo wrote:

franco wrote:

danny wrote:Hi
1. does someone maybe have a modern taskorganisation and equipment table for the recconaissance company's in a motorized rifle and tank regiment? are there differences between the two? and are there differences when the unit is equipped with bmp's, BTR's or MTLB's?
2. does someone maybe have the same but then for the recce battallions of a brigade or a division? like forinstance the 136th recce battallion of the 2nd guards and the 137th reccefor the 4th guards tank?

kind greetz

This was the original Org mentioned on line when the new brigade org was established a few years back:

Recon company   129(6 CO -20 NCO -103 OR ) 
    HQ of company  9(1-4-4) 
    3x Recon platoon  25(1-3-21) 
    RT recon platoon  19(1-3-15) 
    ELINT platoon 26(1-4-21) 

Then it was decided that this was not enough and it was converted to a battalion of:
   2 reconnaissance companies and
   1 RT/Elint company

In addition, a brigade had a separate sniper platoon/company and an UAV company. These along with the reconnaissance battalion are coordinated by a brigade center.

Really do not have anything on the regimental structure but the old Red Army was a company around 60.

As for equipment suspect it would be a company of Tigr and a company of whatever the brigade is operating.

Having saw also your reply about the SHORAD air defence I would argue that in case of Recon troops the regiments, being not an independent unit simply has not need of an independent unit as it can pool on divisional assets.

In case of basic AD situation is reversed: at each organisational level there is a distint layer of defense but they doesn't stack in reverse, so in case of a division there is the need to both divisional level layer to cover the whole unit but also SHORAD assets akin the regimental ones more to cover the centralized and support forces of the division itself.

A question more: also recon units at regimental and brigade level are still part of GRU and consequently of the Stavka or are they a specific troop of the Ground Forces?
And Sniper and UAV separate units belong to what Troops respectively?

1. UAV are a separate department and interesting all UAV's whether for recon, EW, Fire control or communications are under the control of the separate UAV company. They would report to the appropriate brigade / division HQ they are attached to.
2. Glad you brought up the recon troops, believe in retrospect that I oversimplified or didn't clarify well enough in our previous exchange. The snipers and reconnaissance soldiers would be part of the motor rifle branch. The RT recon and Elint troopers mentioned above be GRU attached to the recon company / battalion. It is a different organization to what the West employees for sure.
3. The Air defense battalion or regiment also includes MANPADS according to some TO&E's that I have seen.

franco wrote:

marcellogo wrote:

franco wrote:

danny wrote:Hi
1. does someone maybe have a modern taskorganisation and equipment table for the recconaissance company's in a motorized rifle and tank regiment? are there differences between the two? and are there differences when the unit is equipped with bmp's, BTR's or MTLB's?
2. does someone maybe have the same but then for the recce battallions of a brigade or a division? like forinstance the 136th recce battallion of the 2nd guards and the 137th reccefor the 4th guards tank?

kind greetz

This was the original Org mentioned on line when the new brigade org was established a few years back:

Recon company   129(6 CO -20 NCO -103 OR ) 
    HQ of company  9(1-4-4) 
    3x Recon platoon  25(1-3-21) 
    RT recon platoon  19(1-3-15) 
    ELINT platoon 26(1-4-21) 

Then it was decided that this was not enough and it was converted to a battalion of:
   2 reconnaissance companies and
   1 RT/Elint company

In addition, a brigade had a separate sniper platoon/company and an UAV company. These along with the reconnaissance battalion are coordinated by a brigade center.

Really do not have anything on the regimental structure but the old Red Army was a company around 60.

As for equipment suspect it would be a company of Tigr and a company of whatever the brigade is operating.

Having saw also your reply about the SHORAD air defence I would argue that in case of Recon troops the regiments, being not an independent unit simply has not need of an independent unit as it can pool on divisional assets.

In case of basic AD situation is reversed: at each organisational level there is a distint layer of defense but they doesn't stack in reverse, so in case of a division there is the need to both divisional level layer to cover the whole unit but also SHORAD assets akin the regimental ones more to cover the centralized and support forces of the division itself.

A question more: also recon units at regimental and brigade level are still part of GRU and consequently of the Stavka or are they a specific troop of the Ground Forces?
And Sniper and UAV separate units belong to what Troops respectively?

1. UAV are a separate department and interesting all UAV's whether for recon, EW, Fire control or communications are under the control of the separate UAV company. They would report to the appropriate brigade / division HQ they are attached to.
2. Glad you brought up the recon troops, believe in retrospect that I oversimplified or didn't clarify well enough in our previous exchange. The snipers and reconnaissance soldiers would be part of the motor rifle branch. The RT recon and Elint troopers mentioned above be GRU attached to the recon company / battalion. It is a different organization to what the West employees for sure.
3. The Air defense battalion or regiment also includes MANPADS according to some TO&E's that I have seen.  

You sure that recon platoons came from motor rifle troops ?
Because I've seen a lot of sources telling otherwise (i.e. that they also are spetznaz from GU of general staff).

In any case they are REALLY different from western units tasked with the same function i.e. the Cavalry, that is a full fledged fighting force.
In russian case we have hyper specialized high standard operatives but organized in formations unable to fight autonomously.

marcellogo wrote:

You sure that recon platoons came from motor rifle troops ?
Because I've seen a lot of sources telling otherwise (i.e. that they also are spetznaz from GU of general staff).

In any case they are REALLY different from western units tasked with the same function i.e. the Cavalry, that is a full fledged fighting force.
In russian case we have hyper specialized high standard operatives but organized in formations unable to fight autonomously.

The recon platoons in the motor rifle units. Those in spetsnaz units belong to GRU.