Syrian Civil War: News #9

ultimatewarrior wrote:Russia should not deploy ground forces to Syria until T-14 is ready. T-14 has active kill that will render TOW missiles useless.

I am for giving Syrian people Russian citizenship. Russia allows dual citizenship. Russian citizenship will protect Syrian people from attack by Israel and America. No one dares bomb anyone who has Russian citizenship. Doing so will oblige the Russian military to attack. And no one dares to mess with the Russian military.

Didn't I already ban you?

You Americans and Russians ain't fooling anyone. Syrians are not given American or Russian citizenship for a reason. They are expendable dogs. Russians bomb American dogs. Americans bomb Russian dogs. Syrian lives are worth nothing.

Americans and Russians are in Syria for one thing only, and that's butchering Syrians with bombs. Americans and Russians want war in Syria. War is good for business. War is profit. Who cares about Syrians lives? Americans bomb Syrians. Russians bomb Syrians. As long as Americans and Russians don't bomb each other, there's no problem. Doesn't matter how many Syrians die. Ca ching. That is the sound of money.

Americans and Russians play a game. To see who kills more Syrians. That is the name of the game.

More than 300,000 people butchered in Syria, all for Americans and Russians fun and games.

Russians and Americans sure are partners all right. Partners of mass slaughter.

KiloGolf wrote:
You're probably confused, too much 3-dimensional chess.
Atmospheric conditions changing over such long distances is a fact, not a conjecture.

Again more arse pull conjecture, Murmansk-BN was tested back during the Zapad-2013 exercises, jamming a OTH radar located in the Kola Peninsula (hence the name Murmansk-BN), 2,500km from Kursk (where the ECM complex was located). Kola Peninsula is located in the arctic, where some of the most severe atmospheric conditions in the world exist, as well being located near the Northern magnetic pole (Northern Lights).

There is no uber-weapon restricting Syrian airspace. Hence SAA getting invariably trashed by IDF/AF and Coalition, with no single fvck given in the process.

1.) You don't use strategic system designed to be used on OTH radars, unless you plan on fighting a enemy who uses OTH radars (the Jihadists don't personally man any). Russia isn't fighting the US or Israel directly. 2.) The air-campaign in Syria is primarily a tactical scenario, where as the use of strategic systems is greatly limited. The use of Tu-160's and cruise missile is in line to show NATO whats in store for them if the current Cold War goes hot, but the overwhelming majority of the munitions used in the Syrian air-campaign are dumb bombs coupled with targeting systems. 4.) You don't openly engage an Thermo-Nuclear power unless you plan on going there. 5.) Russia maintains good relations with Israel, because a large portion of Israel's population come from the former U.S.S.R., and that the easiest way to penetrate U.S. MIC and Intelligence agencies is through the back door...aka Israel. China has been exploiting that gaping weakness for decades!

...You'd seriously believe you can directly engage nuclear powers and not even think of the potential consequences....you can't seriously be this naive?!?!

KiloGolf wrote:
PS. Anything can get jammed.

Anything can be jammed, yes. Evidence that the Triumph has been jammed in Syria? I'm guessing none. You're assuming it is being jammed because why exactly? They haven't shot anything down?  

KiloGolf wrote:Or fix bayonets and charge in perfectly straight formations.
That will teach 'em

I'm sure that was a funny joke. Syria, as a sovereign state, can declare an NFZ over its own territory, that is, to close its airspace to any foreign aircraft it deems a threat. This doesn't need to be enforced by the entire VVS, in-fact, contrary to your assumption, it's perfectly applicable with "just a few Flankers and a Growler". This isn't about stopping an entire US strike force, we're not talking WW3. This is about intercepting and/or escorting illegal (according to international law) breaches of Syrian airspace when possible, with what resources are available and giving the right for the VKS to pull the trigger if necessary. Tbh I think it could work, although I suppose it relies on the US being a rational state actor, which they are not. It'd at least give them something to think about the next time they decide to hit the SAA in support of their brethren on the ground.

KiloGolf wrote:You never get close to 100% probability of kill at maximum range.
Halving that range is a good estimate of where 100% area denial can be better achieved. That is if there are available missiles...

With only say.. 16 missiles at hand, the previously posted map becomes invalid.

I don't know what missiles the TELs are loaded with, but halving to 40-50km? So you're implying S-400 only has an effective range of 80-100km? Am I missing something?

A bit of comic relief

Erdogan: Turkey's "safe zone" in the Syria could reach 5,000 square kilometers

The next target of the Turkish-backed rebel fighters might be ISIS stronghold, Al-Bab, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said on Monday.

http://conflict-watch.com/2016/09/19/erdogan-turkeys-safe-zone-in-the-syria-could-reach-5000-square-kilometers/

OminousSpudd wrote:
I don't know what missiles the TELs are loaded with, but halving to 40-50km? So you're implying S-400 only has an effective range of 80-100km? Am I missing something?

Pretty much.
Also maximum =/= effective and usually these quoted numbers represent more of promotional interests rather than true performance.

magnumcromagnon wrote:Again more arse pull conjecture

Atmospheric conditions are there, always. No point in debating this further, especially at your quoted level.

airstrike wrote:Erdogan: Turkey's "safe zone" in the Syria could reach 5,000 square kilometers

The next target of the Turkish-backed rebel fighters might be ISIS stronghold, Al-Bab,  Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said on Monday.

http://conflict-watch.com/2016/09/19/erdogan-turkeys-safe-zone-in-the-syria-could-reach-5000-square-kilometers/

I thought a safe zone by Turkey was something that the Syrian government did not want.

& something the USA DID want. Has something changed??

Now kurds in Syria are begging Russia and Syrian Government
to help them deal with Turkey.  


I will say this again. Russia war in Syria is an attrition war on NATO ,the more Russia extend the
war the more Americans will become discredited and exposed of its support of ISIS. However this atrition war to work requires the Syrian Army to hold positions and even weaken their enemies .Russia major problem however continues to be that is Alone in Syria. with IRAN and CHina totally shinning for their Absence. IRAN have 1 million army to help Syria restore its territory. Russia can more easily backup IRAN than Syria since is close to its border. IRAN don't need 1 million of soldiers to fight in IRAN , since NATO is not going to invade it , it will only provoke IRAN TO close the hormuz strait and drive oil prices to heaven ,something that will help Russia economy.

China neither needs 2million soldiers on its land. Nobody is going to invade China by land.
So China army the best place for them to be is in Syria ,kicking NATO and their backed Terrorist in the Ass. Russia cannot deploy a major force in Syria since it have its own war right at their borders. aside of its major economic problems.

Vann7 wrote:Now kurds in Syria are begging Russia and Syrian Government
to help them deal with Turkey.  


I will say this again. Russia war in Syria is an attrition war on NATO ,the more Russia extend the
war the more Americans will become discredited and exposed of its support of ISIS. However this atrition war to work requires the Syrian Army to hold positions and even weaken their enemies .Russia major problem however continues to be that is Alone in Syria. with IRAN and CHina totally shinning for their Absence. IRAN have 1 million army to help Syria restore its territory. Russia can more easily backup IRAN than Syria since is close to its border. IRAN don't need 1 million of soldiers to fight in IRAN , since NATO is not going to invade it , it will only provoke IRAN TO close the hormuz strait and drive oil prices to heaven ,something that will help Russia economy.

China neither needs 2million soldiers on its land. Nobody is going to invade China by land.
So China army the best place for them to be is in Syria ,kicking NATO and their backed Terrorist in the Ass. Russia cannot deploy a major force in Syria since it have its own war right at their borders. aside of its major economic problems.

There's a massive difference in stationing troops in various locations within one's own country and deploying combat troops in the Levant. Both PRC and Iran lack the resources for deploying and sustaining anything more than a mechanized brigade (even that is pushing it for IRI which can only do this via Iraq).

KiloGolf wrote:

OminousSpudd wrote:
I don't know what missiles the TELs are loaded with, but halving to 40-50km? So you're implying S-400 only has an effective range of 80-100km? Am I missing something?

Pretty much.
Also maximum =/= effective and usually these quoted numbers represent more of promotional interests rather than true performance.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Hassan Ridha ‏@sayed_ridha 4m4 minutes ago

Hassan Ridha Retweeted Hevale IS attacked Um Hosh - Um Qara axis but was repelled by YPG/SDF #Aleppp

Hassan Ridha ‏@sayed_ridha 7m7 minutes ago

IS recapture Tell Hajar from #EuphratesShield rebels in north Aleppo countryside

Vann7 wrote:Now kurds in Syria are begging Russia and Syrian Government
to help them deal with Turkey.  

.................

Oh reallllyyyyy???

Maybe they should have thought about this before attacking SAA in Hasakh and shelling Castillo Road for no intelligent reason whatsoever? Everyone knew that Russia will just let Turks take out the trash to avoid bad PR of bombing Kurds but Kurds apparently knew better.

Looks like Kurds became victims of both their own stupidity and their awesome media image.


Apparently ceasefire is now dead and buried. Back to business.

PapaDragon wrote:

Vann7 wrote:Now kurds in Syria are begging Russia and Syrian Government
to help them deal with Turkey.  

.................

Oh reallllyyyyy???

Maybe they should have thought about this before attacking SAA in Hasakh and shelling Castillo Road for no intelligent reason whatsoever? Everyone knew that Russia will just let Turks take out the trash to avoid bad PR of bombing Kurds but Kurds apparently knew better.

Looks like Kurds became victims of both their own stupidity and their awesome media image.


Apparently ceasefire is now dead and buried. Back to business.

Kurds have been the Kurds worst enemy, their untrustworthy diplomacy puts them at a disadvantage against Tehran, Ankara, Damascus, and Baghdad, all of which know how to play the game of geopolitics.

There will never be a "Kurdistan", these people are too stupid to form their own country.

PapaDragon wrote:

Vann7 wrote:Now kurds in Syria are begging Russia and Syrian Government
to help them deal with Turkey.  

.................

Oh reallllyyyyy???

Maybe they should have thought about this before attacking SAA in Hasakh and shelling Castillo Road for no intelligent reason whatsoever? Everyone knew that Russia will just let Turks take out the trash to avoid bad PR of bombing Kurds but Kurds apparently knew better.

Looks like Kurds became victims of both their own stupidity and their awesome media image.


Apparently ceasefire is now dead and buried. Back to business.

Ceasefire does indeed seem to be dead, a little something about unceasing attacks by Brand X against SAA amongst other charming items. What a surprise, I am suitably shocked.

Militants launch ‘large-scale offensive’ in Aleppo, Russian MoD's live webcast halted


https://www.rt.com/news/359921-aleppo-militant-fire-damage/

Now is the time when "gloves must come off"
Bombs away........

KiloGolf wrote:
Pretty much.
Also maximum =/= effective and usually these quoted numbers represent more of promotional interests rather than true performance.

Now you are speaking non sense. Russia sell their Air defenses world wide and no one have complained that Russian claims are propaganda. The Russian military will not advertise their S-300 or S-400 longe range capabilities if it wasn't true. Even NATO does not question Russia air defense range capabilities.  .Promotional non sense. China will not be buying lots of S-400s from Russia ,if they had any doubts about it , that it was just "propaganda"  S-400s range ,since China Air defenses already can reach 300 km. And NATO military have many times reported about this.

As i told you , Russia is not at war yet with NATO or Israel and this is the reason ,the S-400s are not being fired on them. Russia S-400s.. are there for deterrence ,to make sure NATO or Israel remember that there will be a price they will have to pay very high one ,if dare to attack Russia. Russia also have Iskanders in Syria with 500km range nuclear capable, for deterrence too. and Russia demonstrated already very high presicion with their cruise missiles ,not at 50km but at 2000km.  Already soviets S-200D "Dubna" since the 70s ,had 400km range , so having that range in the S-400 is nothing new. . If S-300s or S-400s was only effective at 50km as you claim ,Israel will not be so angry of IRAN getting them ,neither China will be buying many of them.  So pretty much you are trolling.

And im not claiming any technology done by Russia is 100% immune to counter attacks..
No technology is 100% untouchable , if you fully understand ,get inside information of how any technology operates ,you can develop tactics to try to counter it.just like it happens with any other technology in the world. But that Said. Russian S-400s is the best Air defense System in the world. you can't get anything better than that. Not from NATO ,not from ISrael. But it will be foolish to use the S-400s alone , they need to be used in combination with Pantsirs and Tors and effective Airforce , so the enemy will not have time to even try any strategy.

All said Russia , can create a no fly zone in Israel any time it want it.. no problem.
and defeat that country in just 2 -3 nuclear strikes with all its airforce. But just because you dont see Israel Nuked or American nuked ,does not means Russian nukes are not effective. it only means Russia is not at war with US or Israel. and nothing else. And their only intention in Syria is purely defensive and to help the nation to survive from NATO and their Terrorist aggression and make it very costly for them ,very expensive ,any attempts to continue with the illegal war..


But if Russia wanted a war with Israel , it will be easy as 1 2 3 , to keep grounded israeli Airforce. Because Israel is so small country, a surprise first strike , EMP /Nuclear attack at high altitude will blind Israeli radars defenses and after it , a couple of  dozen of very precise Iskanders armed with tactical nuclear warheads will shut down all Israeli military airports
before it even have a chance to fight back and neutralize Israeli Air defenses. No problem.
After that it will be bombing a defenseless country without air defenses or airforce , it will surrender in less than 24 hours of fighting.

All said.. Latakia is probably the worse place in all Syria to deploy Air defenses , for being so close to Turkey border. So S-400s or any Air defense system in the world will be very vulnerable
there ,because is withing range of NATO artillery if deployed in Turkey border. So if a major war start in Syria , to judge S-400s performance in so vulnerable place is not exactly fair . It will be like asking a world champion sniper to fight at 10 meters from the enemy. this means it will lose all its range advantage and the enemy will likely have a chance to fire first for being too close.
is not the way it was designed... S-400s if used defensively needs at least 400 square km of safe zone and protected by a network of Pantsirs ,Buks and Tors ,which will be the first line of attack and will warn the S-400s with time of any incoming danger . but also counter electronics and decoys to fool any incoming missile.

If you want to read a US but definitely not MSN view of what's happening in Syria try this thread, the cynicism oozes out of every pore

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-18/us-desperately-pumps-humanitarian-smokescreen-failing-syria-ceasefire

After that this might make you smile

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-19/syrian-ceasefire-near-collapse-after-assad-slams-naked-american-aggression

Russia's S400 is only used for self defense. It's not used to defend SAA. SAA would need Bavar 373 from Iran to do that. Bavar 373 is ready for deployment next year and it is said to surpass S400. Russia is a secular country. Russia is not a religious country. Russia cannot fight. Iran is not a secular country. Iran is a religious country. Iran would blow Israeli and American planes to kingdom come if they fly in Syrian air space without permission.

Vladimir79 wrote:

ultimatewarrior wrote:Russia should not deploy ground forces to Syria until T-14 is ready. T-14 has active kill that will render TOW missiles useless.

I am for giving Syrian people Russian citizenship. Russia allows dual citizenship. Russian citizenship will protect Syrian people from attack by Israel and America. No one dares bomb anyone who has Russian citizenship. Doing so will oblige the Russian military to attack. And no one dares to mess with the Russian military.

Didn't I already ban you?  

No hint taken.

We pray that you will swing your Great Axe of Doom oh Lord and Master.

UN convoy took Saudi Arabian money and tried to sneek to eastern Aleppo without marking and informing Russians. Got bombed. Served them right.

Inching closer to WW3. The US seems ready to make a big fuss over the bombing of the so-called 'aid' convoy in east Aleppo.

Also maximum =/= effective and usually these quoted numbers represent more of promotional interests rather than true performance.

SAMs are not AAMs... you can't boost performance by giving figures for high speed high altitude launch at a closing target.

Soviet and Russian SAMs have been shown at various defence shows shooting down all sorts of targets at extended ranges...

If anything it is a serious area of weakness in comparison with western marketing where max figures are given even though they are contradictory.

An F-16 can carry 7 tons of weapons at mach 2 for thousands of kms only in western land...

S-400 was designed to engage targets at 400km range... that was its purpose.

ultimatewarrior wrote:UN convoy took Saudi Arabian money and tried to sneek to eastern Aleppo without marking and informing Russians. Got bombed. Served them right.

Got a link to the story? I would like to know why they were unmarked.

Erk wrote:

ultimatewarrior wrote:UN convoy took Saudi Arabian money and tried to sneek to eastern Aleppo without marking and informing Russians. Got bombed. Served them right.

Got a link to the story? I would like to know why they were unmarked.

Even if it was marked, so what? Russian aid convoys to the Donbass are checked by Kiev regime border guards at the border.
But somehow in the case of Syria this is not required. What independent guarantee is there that these are not fake and actually
supply aid instead of weapons and fuel? In the case of Ukraine there is such a guarantee.