Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Share
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15980
    Points : 16681
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:15 am

    Aww, so we did not get better in welding for 70 years? If T-34 is going to be our metalurgical and welding etalon for 21st century we are not doing very well aint we.

    Yeah... the thing is that the lesson from WWII was that the troops at the front line with thousands of T-34s didn't care that the wields were not pretty to their enemies... what they cared about was that there were thousands of T-34s to support them.

    Obviously the Germans who lost that war and were clearly beated by the weather and lend lease and hitlers poor choices can tell us how wonderful the wields were on the Panthers and Tigers... yet both those German vehicles had that same early period of being unreliable pieces of junk until they got production just right and they improved to good enough... though there were never enough of them to actually matter.

    Actually Sevmash officials said they have severe shortage of skilled welders just a year ago. Good friend of mine worked in Sevmash as underwater welder till he moved to China, and he said they had constantly open welder employment program and even offered free 3 month entry course. What some guys did is get course done and move to Finland for 5 times higher sallary...

    Such abuse of what is basically a schollarship is common everywhere... Sevmash should have made them sign a contract to promise to work for 10 years for the training.

    Amusing that what you are saying is that Russia can train wielders to a level where they are valued in Finland and China but are no good at wielding... are you contradicting yourself again... or are you suggesting the bad wields above are by self taught wielders...

    I am not sure whats up with you people defending those welds, as there is nothing to be defended there, its badly done job, nothing further to discuss really.

    I am not defending those wields... I am saying that you and KG remind me of Vann when a fucking plane crashes... all of a sudden the sky is falling, there is no quality control in Russia and they can't make planes to save themselves and it is all Putins fault.

    Sure... you are just stopping at no one in Russia can wield as good as you could when you started to learn, but that does not make it any easier to stomach.

    Stop turning this forum in "Russia *****" shithole you already lost people because of that, dissing any kind of criticism is starting to remind me of the Mess and Armored Warfare forums where you cant say a thing aganist anything Murican.

    Between the two of you (you and KG) you have posted some images of some bad wields on a Russian vehicle and some perfect machine wields from a US company and now you are blaming me for Russia perfect America crap rants...

    Perhaps if you said the person who did the wields was not so professional and left it at that instead of claiming no one in Arzamas could wield anymore it might have been over before it started.

    Look at KVS's reply to your first post of photos... wow... just like you said... he bit your head off and then said every Russian wielder is a saint and every American wielder is useless... oops... no he didn't... he just said along the lines of... they are probably good enough for that class of vehicle.

    Then you posted battle damaged vehicle pictures of the same vehicle type and you and KG had a circle jerk about how all wielders in Russia must be crap etc etc.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    Militarov
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5311
    Points : 5356
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  Militarov on Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:02 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Aww, so we did not get better in welding for 70 years? If T-34 is going to be our metalurgical and welding etalon for 21st century we are not doing very well aint we.

    Yeah... the thing is that the lesson from WWII was that the troops at the front line with thousands of T-34s didn't care that the wields were not pretty to their enemies... what they cared about was that there were thousands of T-34s to support them.

    Obviously the Germans who lost that war and were clearly beated by the weather and lend lease and hitlers poor choices can tell us how wonderful the wields were on the Panthers and Tigers... yet both those German vehicles had that same early period of being unreliable pieces of junk until they got production just right and they improved to good enough... though there were never enough of them to actually matter.

    Actually Sevmash officials said they have severe shortage of skilled welders just a year ago. Good friend of mine worked in Sevmash as underwater welder till he moved to China, and he said they had constantly open welder employment program and even offered free 3 month entry course. What some guys did is get course done and move to Finland for 5 times higher sallary...

    Such abuse of what is basically a schollarship is common everywhere... Sevmash should have made them sign a contract to promise to work for 10 years for the training.

    Amusing that what you are saying is that Russia can train wielders to a level where they are valued in Finland and China but are no good at wielding... are you contradicting yourself again... or are you suggesting the bad wields above are by self taught wielders...

    I am not sure whats up with you people defending those welds, as there is nothing to be defended there, its badly done job, nothing further to discuss really.

    I am not defending those wields... I am saying that you and KG remind me of Vann when a fucking plane crashes... all of a sudden the sky is falling, there is no quality control in Russia and they can't make planes to save themselves and it is all Putins fault.

    Sure... you are just stopping at no one in Russia can wield as good as you could when you started to learn, but that does not make it any easier to stomach.

    Stop turning this forum in "Russia *****" shithole you already lost people because of that, dissing any kind of criticism is starting to remind me of the Mess and Armored Warfare forums where you cant say a thing aganist anything Murican.

    Between the two of you (you and KG) you have posted some images of some bad wields on a Russian vehicle and some perfect machine wields from a US company and now you are blaming me for Russia perfect America crap rants...

    Perhaps if you said the person who did the wields was not so professional and left it at that instead of claiming no one in Arzamas could wield anymore it might have been over before it started.

    Look at KVS's reply to your first post of photos... wow... just like you said... he bit your head off and then said every Russian wielder is a saint and every American wielder is useless... oops... no he didn't... he just said along the lines of... they are probably good enough for that class of vehicle.

    Then you posted battle damaged vehicle pictures of the same vehicle type and you and KG had a circle jerk about how all wielders in Russia must be crap etc etc.

    That was reconfigured BTR-80 hull, there was no mention of any battle damage to it. Yes, however T-34 welds were bad, and would shatter sometimes on weak spots during extremly cold winters during exploatation post war, we had few cases in Yugoslavia, it was wartime production with welders that had probably no training whatsoever and were learning on the spot. But that is not an excuse for peacetime in 21st century. Thompson submachine gun was of far lower quality during wartime production too, worse material actually, and same went for almost every weapon produced during WW2, even ammunition.

    First of all its just 3 month course, for people with highschool or even just elementary education, after that they become... assistants, i am not sure what is right term in english but there is specific term. What they were doing, is finish 3 month course, stay 2-3 months more for some bucks, and then move to Finland to shipyards there where they train welders further for specific roles, as they have welder shortage too. So they take people with some basic knowledge and/or experience and continue further with them. To become really good welder, alot more than 3 month course is required.

    Those are not machined welds, hand made welds or jackstand welds by engineer Scott Raabe, guy is however very, very good as far as welding goes. You can find tundreds of his welds online.

    Yes, everyone starts somewhere, my first welds were probably as bad as those, however i did not weld an ACP in defence industry, i welded balcony fence and construction to lay grapes...

    That, cant be good for anything, that kind of welding could pass tho in what they call reconstructive welding on tank hull for an example to soak the hole, where the point is to melt steel and fill the hole, but as actual constructor welds no.

    Its obvious they used all wrong welding settings for a start as i wrote above, everything was set too high from and guy probably was not very experienced either which resulted in all that "splash". I am not welding expert and i do not claim to be i weld as hobby, but my father is an exceptional welder. I just said welds are bad, and it was post from looong ago, now suddenly bunch of people necroed it and started fighting. If i saw such welds on Bradely i would call them shit to, not sure where are people getting all that "NAzO" stuff anyways, bad weld is bad welds, made in Germany, China, Russia or Serbia, its bad weld everywhere.
    avatar
    KiloGolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1607
    Points : 1635
    Join date : 2015-09-01
    Location : Macedonia, Hellas

    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  KiloGolf on Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:07 pm

    GarryB wrote:Between the two of you (you and KG) you have posted some images of some bad wields on a Russian vehicle and some perfect machine wields from a US company and now you are blaming me for Russia perfect America crap rants...

    I am an Engineering and Manufacturing professional and this childish scope is so far beneath me. The reason you saw "US company" welds is because we were having a nice chat with Militarov and I do not speak Russian. I can't read any as well, thus I can't find such images as comfortably as I did with a familiar technique from Boeing, that I wanted to share. And not to troll.

    Not everything is Black vs White you know. Have some respect and faith to us mate.
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15980
    Points : 16681
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:35 am

    That was reconfigured BTR-80 hull, there was no mention of any battle damage to it.

    post 162 and 163 in this thread. Random picture of burned out vehicle and then photo of a vehicle burning.

    But that is not an excuse for peacetime in 21st century.

    You don't know anything about the photos... there could be a dozen reasons, but you jump to conclusions anyway.


    Those are not machined welds, hand made welds or jackstand welds by engineer Scott Raabe, guy is however very, very good as far as welding goes. You can find tundreds of his welds online.

    I was referring to KGs photo of the Boeing companies machine wielder.

    Have some respect and faith to us mate.

    Sorry, but the two of you come across more as trolls every day.

    I don't care... I am sure those that survived WWII on the Soviet side were happy they didn't spend hours making their wields look pretty, and instead made more tanks. Any that cracked in the field due to the cold or to damage could be fixed in the field, or replaced by the dozens more they made because they weren't pissing around making their tanks look pretty for parades.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9968
    Points : 10460
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  George1 on Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:48 am

    i cant understand all this conflict in discussion. And all started from me by posting a BTR-80 variant for National Guard


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov

    avatar
    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9968
    Points : 10460
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  George1 on Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:59 am

    Deliveries to the SMF of combat counter-sabotage machines "Typhoon-M" and their trainers

    According to the January 9, 2017 Department of Information and Mass Communications of the Russian Federation Ministry of Defence, has completed the development and testing of anti-sabotage combat vehicles (BPMD) "Typhoon-M", designed for the protection and defense missile systems Strategic Missile Forces (RVSN).

    Currently BPDM "Typhoon-M" enter the compound, rearming on mobile ground missile systems (PGRK) "yars". In 2016 the Strategic Missile Forces received 14 such machines, for 2017 planned delivery of 12 more BPDM.



    Fighting anti-sabotage machine (BPDM) "Typhoon-M" designed for the benefit of the SMF-is based on BTR-82. It is designed for reconnaissance in position areas in the radar, optical and infrared wavelengths as well as the fight against sabotage and reconnaissance groups of the enemy.

    BPDM uniqueness lies in its complex equipping intelligence tools, including unmanned aircraft that can detect the enemy at a distance of 5 km.

    Along counter-sabotage machines in the SMF enters a unique simulator for training of military guard units and intelligence to find subversive groups in the areas of invisibility opt-electronic and radio-electronic means.

    Due to the multi-functionality of simulator it allows to train all crew BPDM - by the driver to hand remote-controlled platform.

    The newest models fitness complex tactical situation in the area of ​​active actions of subversive groups, all fixed and movable objects, including motor vehicles and personnel of the enemy. System simulation tactical situation allows you to control the appearance of the effects of explosions, gunfire and tracer bullets.

    The simulator makes it possible to control the actions of the trainees in real-time, capturing each of the calculation error numbers automatically. Television monitoring system allows the head of studies to observe the actions of all members of the crew.

    In the educational building, simulating combat starting position PGRK "yars" "soldiers learn to establish intelligence-signaling devices designed to detect spies in all weather conditions, regardless of the time of day.

    In 2016 the Strategic Missile Forces was delivered 10 simulators BPDM "Typhoon-M", another 20 such complexes will go up to 2020.

    Comment bmpd.
    Fighting anti-sabotage machine (BPDM) 15TS56M "Typhoon-M" was designed in 2007-2012 for the benefit of the SMF-based on BTR-82. BPDM" Typhoon-M "is intended for the protection of combat missile complexes RVSN, reconnaissance in position areas in the Strategic missile Forces radar, optical and infrared wavelengths, and anti-sabotage and reconnaissance units of the enemy. The complex reconnaissance BPDM "Typhoon-M" consists of small UAVs "Aileron-3CB." The machine is a further development of BPDM 15TS56 "Typhoon", created in the 1990s on the basis of the BTR-80, but not commercially produced.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2366705.html


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov

    avatar
    Militarov
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5311
    Points : 5356
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  Militarov on Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:59 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    That was reconfigured BTR-80 hull, there was no mention of any battle damage to it.

    post 162 and 163 in this thread. Random picture of burned out vehicle and then photo of a vehicle burning.

    But that is not an excuse for peacetime in 21st century.

    You don't know anything about the photos... there could be a dozen reasons, but you jump to conclusions anyway.


    Those are not machined welds, hand made welds or jackstand welds by engineer Scott Raabe, guy is however very, very good as far as welding goes. You can find tundreds of his welds online.

    I was referring to KGs photo of the Boeing companies machine wielder.

    Have some respect and faith to us mate.

    Sorry, but the two of you come across more as trolls every day.

    I don't care... I am sure those that survived WWII on the Soviet side were happy they didn't spend hours making their wields look pretty, and instead made more tanks. Any that cracked in the field due to the cold or to damage could be fixed in the field, or replaced by the dozens more they made because they weren't pissing around making their tanks look pretty for parades.

    You can see my comment on the photo of burning BTR, it was taken on some military exercise, no further info on why or how it was set ablaze, you can see Kotemore gave his opinion i had none.

    Yes we are trolls, thats is why i have 5000 posts on Russian defence forum, because i am troll... from Serbia... trolling Russians...serving in Serbian military, married to a Russian... right.... if that makes sense go for it.
    avatar
    KiloGolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1607
    Points : 1635
    Join date : 2015-09-01
    Location : Macedonia, Hellas

    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  KiloGolf on Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:52 pm

    GarryB wrote:Sorry, but the two of you come across more as trolls every day.

    You have no idea what you're talking about. Stop posting walls of useless text.

    George1 wrote:i cant understand all this conflict in discussion. And all started from me by posting a BTR-80 variant for National Guard

    Bad-to-horrible BTR-80 welds seems to make Garry and others uncomfortable.
    Pointing out the obvious seems to get a talibanesque treatment in this forum from the strοnk crowd.
    avatar
    Benya
    Senior Sergeant
    Senior Sergeant

    Posts : 265
    Points : 271
    Join date : 2016-06-05
    Location : Budapest, Hungary

    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  Benya on Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:26 pm

    Guys, I really don't want to join into your argument, but...

    ... I cannot understand that how can you start a 2 pages long argument about...

    Weldings.

    I cannot comprehend that some botched up weldings can start a "flame war". I'm perfectly aware of the fact that bad weldings can cause structural problems and whatnot, plus they can somewhat hinder the protection quality of the armor, but it's none of our business as we cannot judge them by just looking at it, and our opinion will hardly affect the way that the welders of ArzamasMashZavod will weld the armor plates of BTRs.

    I have to admit that I'm not an expert welder, but indeed, those are some really bad looking welds, but wheter they are bad or not, only physical tests can tell.

    So, "bad looking" shouldn't always mean "bad quality".

    By that logic, I mean if that this "badly welded BTR" successfully passes through factory and then field tests then it can be accepted into service. If that bad look is really a serious issue, then all they have to do is to grab an angle-grinder and some liters of paint, and the thing is done.

    If it fails, then it will be sent back for some rework. The earlier they spot the problem, the earlier they can fix it. It is still better if the BTR fails in peacetime (from field tests to military exercises/drills), than in wartime, when it can cost lives of Russian soldiers.

    Plus, if one BTR has bad looking weldings, that doesn't mean that the entire fleet of BTR-80s/82s of the Russian Army could fall into pieces at any moment.
    avatar
    kvs
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2738
    Points : 2869
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  kvs on Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:31 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Sorry, but the two of you come across more as trolls every day.

    You have no idea what you're talking about. Stop posting walls of useless text.

    Claims the trolling prat.


    George1 wrote:i cant understand all this conflict in discussion. And all started from me by posting a BTR-80 variant for National Guard

    Bad-to-horrible BTR-80 welds seems to make Garry and others uncomfortable.
    Pointing out the obvious seems to get a talibanesque treatment in this forum from the strοnk crowd.

    Yo, retard, your eyeballs can't determine the quality of these welds from a few photos. People have been trying
    to point out this obvious physical limitation to you for a while, but being the retard that you are, you actually
    believe that you can see through the welds from a photo.

    Both you and the Cruise Princess have only your subjective aesthetic "baby's bottom of smoothness" criterion that
    no professional welder on the planet subscribes to as your "proof" of the inadequacy of these welds. It is now rather
    clear that it is you and the Cruise Princess that are mentally inadequate.
    avatar
    kvs
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2738
    Points : 2869
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  kvs on Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:35 pm

    Benya wrote:Guys, I really don't want to join into your argument, but...

    ... I cannot understand that how can you start a 2 pages long argument about...

    Weldings.

    I cannot comprehend that some botched up weldings can start a "flame war". I'm perfectly aware of the fact that bad weldings can cause structural problems and whatnot, plus they can somewhat hinder the protection quality of the armor, but it's none of our business as we cannot judge them by just looking at it, and our opinion will hardly affect the way that the welders of ArzamasMashZavod will weld the armor plates of BTRs.

    I have to admit that I'm not an expert welder, but indeed, those are some really bad looking welds, but wheter they are bad or not, only physical tests can tell.

    So, "bad looking" shouldn't always mean "bad quality".

    By that logic, I mean if that this "badly welded BTR" successfully passes through factory and then field tests then it can be accepted into service. If that bad look is really a serious issue, then all they have to do is to grab an angle-grinder and some liters of paint, and the thing is done.

    If it fails, then it will be sent back for some rework. The earlier they spot the problem, the earlier they can fix it. It is still better if the BTR fails in peacetime (from field tests to military exercises/drills), than in wartime, when it can cost lives of Russian soldiers.

    Plus, if one BTR has bad looking weldings, that doesn't mean that the entire fleet of BTR-80s/82s of the Russian Army could fall into pieces at any moment.

    The only reason there is a "flame war" is because a couple of trolls insist that readers of this board believe without question their
    claim that they can evaluate the quality of these welds based on inspection of a few internet posted photos.   That is simply certifiable.
    It is physically impossible to state based on the posted photos that these welds are bad.  There is no obvious sign of cracking, excessive
    perforation and plate deformation.   The only thing these two trolls have is their subjective criterion for smoothness of the weld.    I posted
    an example of a perfect weld which clearly fails this BS criterion.   Thus both these trolls fail and should be banned from further posting in
    this thread.
    avatar
    Militarov
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5311
    Points : 5356
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  Militarov on Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:43 am

    Benya wrote:Guys, I really don't want to join into your argument, but...

    ... I cannot understand that how can you start a 2 pages long argument about...

    Weldings.

    I cannot comprehend that some botched up weldings can start a "flame war". I'm perfectly aware of the fact that bad weldings can cause structural problems and whatnot, plus they can somewhat hinder the protection quality of the armor, but it's none of our business as we cannot judge them by just looking at it, and our opinion will hardly affect the way that the welders of ArzamasMashZavod will weld the armor plates of BTRs.

    I have to admit that I'm not an expert welder, but indeed, those are some really bad looking welds, but wheter they are bad or not, only physical tests can tell.

    So, "bad looking" shouldn't always mean "bad quality".

    By that logic, I mean if that this "badly welded BTR" successfully passes through factory and then field tests then it can be accepted into service. If that bad look is really a serious issue, then all they have to do is to grab an angle-grinder and some liters of paint, and the thing is done.

    If it fails, then it will be sent back for some rework. The earlier they spot the problem, the earlier they can fix it. It is still better if the BTR fails in peacetime (from field tests to military exercises/drills), than in wartime, when it can cost lives of Russian soldiers.

    Plus, if one BTR has bad looking weldings, that doesn't mean that the entire fleet of BTR-80s/82s of the Russian Army could fall into pieces at any moment.

    Welds are however first inspected visually in factory, Kilo can probably tell you more about this, i am not employed in industry atm. Then depending on where or what the welds are they get inspected by x-rays or various other equipment for cracks and quite long list of other defects. Thing is some of those welds are not even complete, like there is missing few mm between plates, and that cant pass anything really.

    And yes, as you said welds need to be grinded down most of the time (even almost perfect welds) so you can apply base paint to prevent rusting, if weld stays as it is most of the time it will allow gathering of moisture in small holes molten metal makes upon sudden change of temperature and that is were corrosion will start.

    That naturally as you said does not mean all of them are like that (actually its very unlikely), but apparently some are and that should change.
    avatar
    Militarov
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5311
    Points : 5356
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  Militarov on Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:46 am

    kvs wrote:
    Benya wrote:Guys, I really don't want to join into your argument, but...

    ... I cannot understand that how can you start a 2 pages long argument about...

    Weldings.

    I cannot comprehend that some botched up weldings can start a "flame war". I'm perfectly aware of the fact that bad weldings can cause structural problems and whatnot, plus they can somewhat hinder the protection quality of the armor, but it's none of our business as we cannot judge them by just looking at it, and our opinion will hardly affect the way that the welders of ArzamasMashZavod will weld the armor plates of BTRs.

    I have to admit that I'm not an expert welder, but indeed, those are some really bad looking welds, but wheter they are bad or not, only physical tests can tell.

    So, "bad looking" shouldn't always mean "bad quality".

    By that logic, I mean if that this "badly welded BTR" successfully passes through factory and then field tests then it can be accepted into service. If that bad look is really a serious issue, then all they have to do is to grab an angle-grinder and some liters of paint, and the thing is done.

    If it fails, then it will be sent back for some rework. The earlier they spot the problem, the earlier they can fix it. It is still better if the BTR fails in peacetime (from field tests to military exercises/drills), than in wartime, when it can cost lives of Russian soldiers.

    Plus, if one BTR has bad looking weldings, that doesn't mean that the entire fleet of BTR-80s/82s of the Russian Army could fall into pieces at any moment.

    The only reason there is a "flame war" is because a couple of trolls insist that readers of this board believe without question their
    claim that they can evaluate the quality of these welds based on inspection of a few internet posted photos.   That is simply certifiable.
    It is physically impossible to state based on the posted photos that these welds are bad.  There is no obvious sign of cracking, excessive
    perforation and plate deformation.   The only thing these two trolls have is their subjective criterion for smoothness of the weld.    I posted
    an example of a perfect weld which clearly fails this BS criterion.   Thus both these trolls fail and should be banned from further posting in
    this thread.

    You are naturally aware welds are first inspected visually right? Apparently not.

    Oh yes, ban me please, i wont be able to live anymore.
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15980
    Points : 16681
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:57 am

    Yes we are trolls, thats is why i have 5000 posts on Russian defence forum, because i am troll... from Serbia... trolling Russians...serving in Serbian military, married to a Russian... right.... if that makes sense go for it.

    The "black people can't be racist" defence... Doesn't wash.

    Bad-to-horrible BTR-80 welds seems to make Garry and others uncomfortable.

    I could care less about the wields on an armoured vehicle. It was the circle jerk by you and Mil that somehow no one in russia could wield that got my attention as being obvious trolling.

    Pointing out the obvious seems to get a talibanesque treatment in this forum from the strοnk crowd.

    The obvious wasn't the problem. The leap from "This is a bad wield" to no one at Arazmas can wield any more was the problem.

    Then depending on where or what the welds are they get inspected by x-rays or various other equipment for cracks and quite long list of other defects.

    Don't you mean photos are posted on the internet and experts like you and KG evaluate them...

    Why bother with equipment like portable xray equipment if you can just determine the quality visually from a photo on the internet?

    Oh yes, ban me please, i wont be able to live anymore.

    Drama queen.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    Militarov
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5311
    Points : 5356
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  Militarov on Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:34 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Yes we are trolls, thats is why i have 5000 posts on Russian defence forum, because i am troll... from Serbia... trolling Russians...serving in Serbian military, married to a Russian... right.... if that makes sense go for it.

    The "black people can't be racist" defence... Doesn't wash.

    Bad-to-horrible BTR-80 welds seems to make Garry and others uncomfortable.

    I could care less about the wields on an armoured vehicle. It was the circle jerk by you and Mil that somehow no one in russia could wield that got my attention as being obvious trolling.

    Pointing out the obvious seems to get a talibanesque treatment in this forum from the strοnk crowd.

    The obvious wasn't the problem. The leap from "This is a bad wield" to no one at Arazmas can wield any more was the problem.

    Then depending on where or what the welds are they get inspected by x-rays or various other equipment for cracks and quite long list of other defects.

    Don't you mean photos are posted on the internet and experts like you and KG evaluate them...

    Why bother with equipment like portable xray equipment if you can just determine the quality visually from a photo on the internet?

    Oh yes, ban me please, i wont be able to live anymore.

    Drama queen.

    /care
    avatar
    KoTeMoRe
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3923
    Points : 3958
    Join date : 2015-04-21
    Location : Krankhaus Central.

    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:46 pm

    Jesus guys, we have first hand evidence of Russian/Soviet military making up with scraps for a long time. During Crimean blockade, we saw Franken 74M's, here it's reconditioned BTR80's into 82's. Why this fuss. In Ukraine we saw fucking Frontal Glacis improperly arranged on T64 BV's. Yes sometimes these things will happen when you need the output. Why is this so hard to either get over or accept?

    It's a damn shame, these things can't be dealt with some calm and tranquillity. No, it's no personal offense to anyone here to point out people cutting corners.
    Hell this is what a military minded forum (or any trade minded forum should look too).

    Hell I'm of the opinion such "fails" should be gotten together in a maxi thread. How much the MIC is ready to fuck you up for the buck/kopek.

    Jesus calm the fuck down.
    avatar
    KiloGolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1607
    Points : 1635
    Join date : 2015-09-01
    Location : Macedonia, Hellas

    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  KiloGolf on Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:56 pm

    kvs wrote:Yo, retard, your eyeballs can't determine the quality of these welds from a few photos.

    Visual inspection is key for welds, especially those horrible examples.

    yo lol1
    avatar
    KiloGolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1607
    Points : 1635
    Join date : 2015-09-01
    Location : Macedonia, Hellas

    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  KiloGolf on Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:58 pm

    GarryB wrote:Don't you mean photos are posted on the internet and experts like you and KG evaluate them

    I am actually but that's not the point, I'm posting here neither as an Engineer nor a Weld specialist. We pointed out the obvious and you started foaming and trolling with strοnkisms. Can't wait for more walls of text now (...)
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15980
    Points : 16681
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:18 am

    You did not point out the obvious.

    You can't post an image on the internet and draw the conclusion that it be obvious that everyone at a company is incompetent.



    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    KiloGolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1607
    Points : 1635
    Join date : 2015-09-01
    Location : Macedonia, Hellas

    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  KiloGolf on Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:45 pm

    GarryB wrote:You did not point out the obvious.

    You can't post an image on the internet and draw the conclusion that it be obvious that everyone at a company is incompetent.


    I never claimed one can draw conclusions from all images, but most provide initial clues on welding going wrong.
    The gap between base metal plates is conclusive though.
    avatar
    KoTeMoRe
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3923
    Points : 3958
    Join date : 2015-04-21
    Location : Krankhaus Central.

    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:11 am

    Once again so this can be laid to rest.

    The BTR(s) we are seeing in the picture are conversions from BTR-80 to newer standard.

    Here you can see the definitive tell tale of such conversion.





    Check where the huge 2 o'clock weld (which is a capital repair since it touches to the hull integrity) is, it actually serves as a patch to the 2 o'clock port.
    The welds on the breaking line are probably because the BTR was "strengthened" in some way (most probably the spall liner insertions required gutting) thus there was some rough play with the front hull.
    avatar
    Militarov
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5311
    Points : 5356
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  Militarov on Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:56 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:Once again so this can be laid to rest.

    The BTR(s) we are seeing in the picture are conversions from BTR-80 to newer standard.

    Here you can see the definitive tell tale of such conversion.





    Check where the huge 2 o'clock weld (which is a capital repair since it touches to the hull integrity) is, it actually serves as a patch to the 2 o'clock port.
    The welds on the breaking line are probably because the BTR was "strengthened" in some way (most probably the spall liner insertions required gutting) thus there was some rough play with the front hull.

    I don have problem with WHY welds are there. I have problem with HOW the welds have been done. They wouldnt weld if there was no need to i am sure of that.
    avatar
    KoTeMoRe
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3923
    Points : 3958
    Join date : 2015-04-21
    Location : Krankhaus Central.

    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:08 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:Once again so this can be laid to rest.

    The BTR(s) we are seeing in the picture are conversions from BTR-80 to newer standard.

    Here you can see the definitive tell tale of such conversion.





    Check where the huge 2 o'clock weld (which is a capital repair since it touches to the hull integrity) is, it actually serves as a patch to the 2 o'clock port.
    The welds on the breaking line are probably because the BTR was "strengthened" in some way (most probably the spall liner insertions required gutting) thus there was some rough play with the front hull.

    I don have problem with WHY welds are there. I have problem with HOW the welds have been done. They wouldnt weld if there was no need to i am sure of that.

    The welds were done because it was cheaper to convert, and because the liner has been problematic (find BTR-80A conversions, they were more or less done the same way). This doesn't mean the welds are good or AMZ has done a nice work but that these welds tend to be there and look the way they look because of structural integrity issues after modernization, including re-inforcing supports for the liner and element repairs within the hull, which means some vehicles were sliced in parts and put together from existing material.

    So yeah it looks ugly but every patched sweater looks ugly.
    avatar
    kvs
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2738
    Points : 2869
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  kvs on Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:30 pm

    All of this talk about ugly is vapid subjective BS. Where are the objective metrics of structural integrity? The only thing the "experts"
    here have is their eyeballs perceiving weld roughness. I have posted a photograph of a rough weld where the joint is ideal and nearly
    identical to the steel in the adjoined plates. This one photograph nullifies all the yapping in this thread by eyeball roughness measurement
    "experts".

    NATzO vermin are utterly pathetic if they think they will defeat Russia because of weld roughness. Desperate, hysterical freaks who
    are completely insecure below their thin veneer of trash talking and pretensions of superiority.
    avatar
    Militarov
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5311
    Points : 5356
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  Militarov on Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:16 pm

    kvs wrote:All of this talk about ugly is vapid subjective BS.   Where are the objective metrics of structural integrity?   The only thing the "experts"
    here have is their eyeballs perceiving weld roughness.   I have posted a photograph of a rough weld where the joint is ideal and nearly
    identical to the steel in the adjoined plates.    This one photograph nullifies all the yapping in this thread by eyeball roughness measurement
    "experts".

    NATzO vermin are utterly pathetic if they think they will defeat Russia because of weld roughness.   Desperate, hysterical freaks who
    are completely insecure below their thin veneer of trash talking and pretensions of superiority.








    This is special NATO weld inspection board, its made specially to make these welds above to look bad. I made it together with Kilo and group of experts from NATO.



    Here, so you can get some basic knowledge about welds yourself.

    Ty, please, stop bothering us with your NATO obsessions its getting very....disturbing, to say at least.

    Could all now, switch back to BTR topic when we concluded this quality control issue, for the love of God.

    Sponsored content

    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:09 pm