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    Austin
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    RPG/RPO Thread

    Post  Austin on Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:54 am

    http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2008/11/russia-unveils/
    Russia Unveils ‘Abrams Killer’ Rocket

    The RPG-30 has 105mm tandem warhead reckoned to be capable of penetrating over 650mm of steel armor behind reactive armor. But its special feature is a second tube, firing a smaller-caliber decoy rocket a fraction of a second ahead of the real one. The idea is that active protection systems will engage the decoy, but will not be able to engage a second threat immediately afterwards.

    TASS quotes an un-named expert (in Russian — I used Babelfish to translate) as saying that existing active protection systems can only engage a second target after a minimum of 0.2 seconds.

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    Re: RPG/RPO Thread

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:59 am

    Actually it wouldn't take much to fit the nose of the decoy rocket with dozens of little corner reflectors to make it appear enormous and perhaps even obscure the real threat.

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    Re: RPG/RPO Thread

    Post  IronsightSniper on Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:43 pm

    Only problem with chaff is that you can't get much range with that so the APS wouldn't even have to shoot at it.

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    Active protection systems: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:43 am

    Just looking at the article again the decoy rocket looks rather short and is probably has its ballistics matched to the primary rocket, but if I were designing it I would try to go for a very long narrow rocket with lots of narrow shaped charge warheads all angled slightly off centre with the front charge covered in angle reflectors to make it look huge. When fired at a target with an active defence system then you would expect it to be detonated away from the target so the angled HEAT warheads should pepper the target tank with plasma beams of metal material. Not enough to penetrate of course because of the small calibre, but should be enough to set off ERA boxes and damage things like optics etc... it would also serve to obscure the incoming main warhead even further and you might get a lucky hit of the APS system trying to acquire the next incoming round.

    Against a target that does not have an APS system the angle of the warheads should be enough to effect the ERA block that is hit and those ERA blocks around it... to make the following round more effective.

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    RPG/RPO Thread

    Post  TheArmenian on Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:14 pm

    I believe this deserves a thread of its own.
    I am currently watching this series. Excellent documentary with great shots and detailed descriptions.
    Strongly recommend anyone to watch, even if you don't understand a word of Russian.
    This is the first of the series:



    part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLKG17CKi0k&feature=related
    part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFe_xvy6H_k&feature=related
    part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TbjwRrdQ_s&feature=related

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    Re: RPG/RPO Thread

    Post  GarryB on Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:57 am

    Nice find... let the downloading begin... Smile

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    Re: RPG/RPO Thread

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:58 pm

    Garry,

    I hope you have watched all the videos. They are really great.
    Here is BAZALT's product catalogue for 2008: http://missiles2go.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/bazalt_08_.pdf

    It has all the aerial bombs etc. But contains only one page about the RPG-29's thermobaric round.

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    Re: RPG/RPO Thread

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:56 am

    Just got a new 2TB hard drive... the drives in my computer were all close to full.

    I am downloading the videos now and will likely watch them all later.

    I watched 3/4ths of the first one and it seemed to have a good coverage of the various grenade launchers used in WWII and the immediate post war period.

    Thanks for bringing them to our attention... Smile

    BTW the PDF you posted a link to, is that missiles2go site something to do with www.missiles.ru?

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    Re: RPG/RPO Thread

    Post  TheArmenian on Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:01 am

    GarryB wrote:Just got a new 2TB hard drive... the drives in my computer were all close to full.

    I am downloading the videos now and will likely watch them all later.

    I watched 3/4ths of the first one and it seemed to have a good coverage of the various grenade launchers used in WWII and the immediate post war period.

    Thanks for bringing them to our attention... Smile

    BTW the PDF you posted a link to, is that missiles2go site something to do with www.missiles.ru?


    Yes, missiles2go and missiles.ru are related.

    I know you will have lots of comments & analysis on the videos about RPGs. Looking forward to them.

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    Re: RPG/RPO Thread

    Post  GarryB on Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:18 pm

    OK, I have seen the first two videos, and I am enjoying them despite not understanding a word being said.

    The footage of the various rocket launchers being used is cool.

    I was particularly interested in the second video with the RPG-16, and didn't realise that the rockets were the calibre of the tube rather than over calibre rockets like the other reusable RPGs.

    It looks a little strange with the launcher being held to fire with a small pointed nose sticking out the muzzle end of the launch tube.

    They seem to have concentrated on the anti tank rockets so far, though there has been footage of RPO rockets too.

    The evolution from the SPG recoiless launchers to the shoulder fired RPGs is interesting too. SPG-9s were used in Afghanistan in remote bases as the rockets had quite a long reach and were in stores, so an enemy unit 2-3km away could be fired upon well outside the range of small arms fire. They were also used for a while in setting off avalanches, but have been replaced by gas powered systems in most ski fields now.

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    Re: RPG/RPO Thread

    Post  GarryB on Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:32 am

    The footage in the 4th video showing the grenade launcher attachment for the Mosin Nagant is very useful to me.

    I have another video about silenced Russian firearms and it shows a suppressor that can be fitted to Mosin rifles and after watching it I started searching on the internet for photos of that silencer.

    After watching this video I can see that some of the photos I thought were silencers were actually grenade launchers.

    Very interesting and entertaining... I could watch launching rockets all day... and for that matter watch rocket impacts.

    The test of a shaped charge against steel plates on the ground was particularly interesting as the charge penetrated half a dozen rather thick steel plates a cm or two across in the metal, but when it reached the soil it was a good 30cm wide and what appeared to be about 1m deep or more... very impressive.

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    Re: RPG/RPO Thread

    Post  GarryB on Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:45 am

    Have watched them all a couple of times now and am impressed.

    Very interesting coverage showing the old cup launched grenade for the Mosin rifle is related to the 40.5mm grenade of their first grenade launcher whose development started in WWII.

    My lack of understanding of spoken Russian meant I didn't understand what was being said, but from the videos it seemed to me that the death of the designer of the automatic grenade launcher along with the development of the widespread use of SMGs, and the fact that the small mortars the grenade launcher was technically replacing had largely become obsolete in preference to much heavier mortars meant the demise of the automatic grenade launcher idea.

    US interest in the Vietnam war period revitalised the Soviet interest and led to the GP series of under barrel grenade launchers and the film includes lots of interesting footage of testing the grenades.

    The video also shows the AGS-17, AGS-30 and Balkan automatic grenade launchers... again not speaking Russian it was hard to follow... was there any mention about whether the Balkan will be adopted?

    It also mentioned new portable grenade launchers like the pump action launcher and the 6 shot rotary launcher...

    There was also a glimpse of the RPG-32 designed and made for Jordan that uses a mix of 72mm and 105mm grenades with HEAT and anti personel warhead choices.

    I rather expect a domestic model might be considered as well, though perhaps able to use a wider range of rockets, perhaps including calibres from 72 to 125mm and also perhaps combining the rockets of the RPG-7/29 and RPO amd MPO and LPO series.

    Certainly for a rocket launcher a combined digital TV and thermal imager scope with built in laser range finder and ballistic computer as shown in current rifle scopes should allow all weather day night effective use with trajectories for the different rocket types making first round hits much more likely.

    The sights would be reusable with attachable rocket tubes.

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    Re: RPG/RPO Thread

    Post  George1 on Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:06 am

    Will RPG's and flamethrowers be replaced by new single joint launcher - GROK

    http://www.redstar.ru/index.php/newspaper/item/3351-grok-zamenit-rpg?

    hief discussed further work with the companies management and designers and expressed confidence that the available scientific and technical capacity will enable the company to create a rocket-propelled grenades, smaller in size and weight, but with a higher efficiency of operation and ability to hit targets at a greater distance. This was reported in the Office of Press and Information of the Ministry of Defense.
    During the site visit, in particular, there was a promising development, flame-thrower-grenade complex (Grok). This combination provides increased shooting accuracy, increased range and a fourfold decrease in weight at the same time worn with rocket launcher arms compared with the RPG-7V by fitting a single reusable sighting and triggering device for a unified nomenclature and caliber of ammunition.
    Considering that at present in service are more than 20 different versions of antitank grenade launchers RPG-7V, disposable rocket launchers and rocket infantry flame-throwers. All of this variety at a higher quality of application can be replaced by a single grenade-flamethrower system.

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    Will RPG's and flamethrowers be replaced by new single joint launcher - GROK

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:02 am

    So it seems that the RPG-32 is considered to be successful, and they will likely come up with a new grip and sighting system, to which the various types of rocket tubes can be attached and used.

    To give you an indication of the range of rockets we are talking about there was the RPO series, which included three different types of rockets... namely a smoke rocket that could fill a small room almost instantly with thick acrid smoke, an incendiary rocket that spread burning material over quite a wide area and of course the primary thermobaric rocket, called Fuel Air Explosive in the west that explodes like HE, but not as fast, but rather more powerfully and hotter than standard HE. There was also the MRO which at just under 5kgs per rocket launcher and rocket was under half the weight of the RPO rockets which were 12kgs including launcher, which means we are already up to 6 different rockets. These rockets have been largely replaced by the RPO PDM-A/Z/D which are, like the MRO, smaller and lighter but have the warhead power of the RPO and much longer effective range than the RPO.
    RPO-A, RPO-D, RPO-Z, MRO-A, MRO-D, MRO-Z, RPO PDM-A, RPO PDM-D, and RPO PDM-Z are all used by engineer troops as standard, but other forces use them too.

    For anti armour use you also have the RPG-18, RPG-22, RPG-26, RPG-27, RPG-28, and the RPG-31.
    Each of these rockets has either a single or tandem HEAT warhead and is designed to penetrate armour.

    The RPG-26 is a 72.5mm calibre rocket with a single warhead, with a weight of 3kgs and can penetrate about half a metre of steel armour, which means it is useful against bunkers and light vehicles or tanks from the rear.

    The RPG-27 is a 105mm calibre tandem warhead rocket with a weight of just over 8kgs and could probably penetrate most tanks from the side with "over 600mm" penetration figures.

    The RPG-28 is a 125mm calibre rocket with a tandem warhead and it weighs 12kgs and would be dangerous to tanks from any angle.

    The RPG-7 and RPG-29 are reusable launchers that use both HEAT warheads and thermobaric warheads. The disposable launchers above have the HEAT rockets of the RPG-7 and RPG-29, while the rockets with the thermobaric warheads are the RShG-1 (with the 105mm calibre HE warhead of the TBG-7V round fired by the RPG-7 and the TBG-29V fired by the RPG-29 which are both also 105mm calibre thermobaric warheads).
    The RShG-2 is a lighter 4kg weapon with a 72.5mm calibre rocket for use against light vehicles or small bunkers or reinforced positions like a machine gun nest or sniper position.

    There is also the RMG which is a tandem warhead weapon where the first warhead blows a hole in something and the second blows fuel into the vehicle or building/shelter and detonates it.

    So I count 18 disposable launchers, plus the RPG-2, RPG-7, RPG-16, RPG-29, and RPG-32 reusable launchers.

    RPG-2 and RPG-16 are obsolete.

    RPG-7 has an external warhead so larger calibre rockets are easy to develop so it has staying power in terms of up grades, but the limits of the 40mm calibre rocket motor means its trajectory is getting very curved for the rockets with the big warheads.

    The RPG-29 is effective, but big and it has a fixed calibre of 105mm.

    RPG-32 has the advantage of replacing a range of weapons by having HEAT and HE warheads in 72.5 and 105mm calibre.

    I think a more sophisticated version of the RPG-32 is the way forward.

    A grip and sighting system that has a laser range finder and ballistic computer as fitted to modern sniper scopes together with clip on launch cannisters that can be a range of calibres depending on the users needs, from 72.5mm with light rockets for a range of light targets, through 105mm and 125mm and perhaps even larger for more and more difficult targets.

    The ammo can come in sealed tubes, and when attached to the grip/sight the attachment should connect to the sight so the ballistic computer knows what type of ammo is fitted. The user can then punch in the temperature, lase the target and fire and have a reasonably good chance of a hit.

    The advantage of such a design is that the rocket motor can become wider and heavier as the warhead calibre increases, which means much better range performance than with RPG-7 rounds limited to 40mm diameter rocket motors.

    To give an indication of the performance increases the old RPO was a 93mm calibre 12kg rocket with an effective range of 600m and a max range of 1,000m. The RPO PDM-A is a 90mm calibre rocket that weighs 8.8kgs and can be used against point targets to 800m or area targets to 1,700m.


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    Re: RPG/RPO Thread

    Post  Austin on Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:08 pm

    RPG-29 hitting a Syrian T-72 , Note the fire come out from the turret and mysteriously one guy managed to come out from the tank and run , seems the other 2 died ?

    How did he come out via escape hatch below the tank ? RPG-29 turns out to be a true killer , first Abrams in Iraq and now T-72 in Syria

    Note the secondary explosion inside the tank after some time


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    Re: RPG/RPO Thread

    Post  Austin on Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:11 pm

    Live Leak has analysis of the event

    Syria - The ultrakilled SAA tank attack analysis

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=efb_1359418903

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    Re: RPG/RPO Thread

    Post  collegeboy16 on Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:56 am

    With that hit, even an RPG-7 can do the same to every other tank except those with turret bustle ammo storage like the M1. Of course if you aim a bit higher at the turret bustle and managed to score one that has the majority of its ammo unused, you can penetrate a lot more shells and put a nice hole in the blast door too.

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    RPG-29 hitting a Syrian T-72

    Post  Viktor on Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:05 am

    Austin wrote:Live Leak has analysis of the event

    Syria - The ultrakilled SAA tank attack analysis

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=efb_1359418903

    This is copy-paste from "Gur Khan attacks!" blog

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    Question : Does Russia ‘Abrams Killer’ Rocket availlable ?

    Post  nemrod on Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:59 pm

    Question:
    Does this weapon -RPG 30 Kreouk ?- available in Russian army ? In export ? If yes, for who ?


    To remember what this, take a look of this old article.
    http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2008/11/russia-unveils/


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    Re: RPG/RPO Thread

    Post  Regular on Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:48 am

    Did You mean Hook in russian? It is already developed. I think it is available for export and Russian military but never heard any news about purchases. Russian army doesn't really need those weapons now, RPG-7 with tandem warheads are very capable and Russia has more serious anti-tank means to deal with enemy tanks.

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    Re: RPG/RPO Thread

    Post  TR1 on Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:36 am

    There are plenty of other missiles as good for "Abrams killing" as the RPG-30. It's main purpose is anti-APS.
    http://lenta.ru/news/2013/04/26/hooks/

    According to IZVESTYA:
    SO far 1000 were ordered for 83 million rubles.

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    Re: RPG/RPO Thread

    Post  Zivo on Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:54 am

    It doesn't seem terribly important for Russia to have at this point in time. No one even has APS in significant numbers anyways.

    So, can the decoy rocket destroy ERA and RPG cages?

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    Re: RPG/RPO Thread

    Post  Sujoy on Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:19 am

    RPG cages / screens aren’t 100% certain to prevent warhead detonation, depending on the angle at which the piezo-electric crush fuze hits it . Claimed protection is around 50% in the areas covered by grill . While the jet is far less stable in air than it is when going through a dense and homogeneous medium like steel, several feet of stand-off detonation distance would be needed to stop it from penetrating . One can expect cage armor or RPG screens to turn only some incoming rounds into duds, or otherwise prevent the explosive from forming a proper shaped-charge jet. If that works, even an RPG full of technically detonated explosives that splatter against the vehicle in glops and bang/burn, probably isn’t going to do much damage.

    However, RPGs with 2 stage tandem warheads whose 1-2 punch makes many attempts at passive defense much more difficult.

    The UK based company Tarian has now come up with a RPG net

    http://www.amsafe.com/wp-content/uploads/Tarian_Defense_US_FINAL1.pdf

    In case of ERA there is a complex interaction between the kinetic projectile rod and the armor module's front plate, while taking into account the edge effect caused by the simultaneous initiation of the explosive layer inside the armor module . There is no interaction between the projectile rod and the back plate of the reactive module during all of the penetration process. This is mainly due to obliquity angle of the reactive module relative to the penetrator and it's explosive energy . The explosive initiation creates a very sharp blast of pressure which loads the front and rear plates of the reactive module. This abrupt shock deforms the plates plastically. This explosive effect, combined with the plates’ stiffness and the interaction of the projectile rod, caused different regions of the plates to move at different resultant velocities. For instance the difference between the front plate’s resultant velocity at its center and its upper section velocity, when the projectile rod impacts its center, could be approximately 100-150m/s . Place of impact on the ERA tiles is important . Upper half provide more protection than the central part . Also , if more than one round are fired at the same spot the protection provided by ERA goes down drastically .

    http://www.google.com/patents/US6880445

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    Re: RPG/RPO Thread

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:38 am

    There is reportedly a new ATGM system called Baikal being developed, but the performance of Metis-M1 and Kornet-EM suggest the Russian military is not lacking in terms of tank killers.

    Of course Krisantema and Hermes in the air will also be very potent, and of course new models of Kh-25 would be available, while Kh-29 would be overkill.


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    Re: RPG/RPO Thread

    Post  Regular on Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:03 pm

    What about Russian top attack AT weapon or RPG round that explodes above tank and projects it's force downwards? Sorry, lost track about them, but there were rumours couple years ago

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