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    Evolution of Eastern Ukraine War: Options and Outcomes

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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Evolution of Eastern Ukraine War: Options and Outcomes

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:42 pm

    AdrianB wrote:My friends, please let me understand what are waiting Putin for ? Militia is loosing, Russian ethnics die daily, EU and US already have posted sanctions over Russia....etc etc....

       What is waiting Putin for ??? This is my big question.... If he would secured Donbas from the beginning all this mess never happened!!

       Hey...Russians...call Putin to send troops into Donbas and to end this mess once and for all !!!

    Militia losing? They've been moping the floor with Kiev forces, at least 400 Kiev forces had to surrender in the past few days!

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    Re: Evolution of Eastern Ukraine War: Options and Outcomes

    Post  AdrianB on Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:00 pm

    Unfortunately militia is losing. It's an asymmetrical war. Militia cannot succeed...it's a fact. It's pointless to wait . Inevitable MR Putin will must send troops in. Why not now and end this story at once?
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Evolution of Eastern Ukraine War: Options and Outcomes

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:37 pm

    AdrianB wrote:Unfortunately militia is losing. It's an asymmetrical war. Militia cannot succeed...it's a fact. It's pointless to wait . Inevitable MR Putin will must send troops in. Why not now and end this story at once?

    Do you even understand the dynamic of war in asymmetrical warfare? Asymmetrical warfare is for conventional forces pure HELL.

    Rebels are winning big time.

    Also Putin will not send in troops because that is exactly what USA wants. After Russia would intervene, US and fascists in Ukraine would blame Putin and Russia for everything, all homeless,jobless the hundred thousands of refugees, the genocide absolutley everything will be blamed on Russia. Ukraine and all fascists or those who live in west ukraine and do not rebel right now will soon see how hard they will have it during winter and from my heart i wish for a very cold and long winter.




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    GarryB

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    Re: Evolution of Eastern Ukraine War: Options and Outcomes

    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:20 am

    This conflict does not involve Russia... it is pro west western Ukrainians of Polish and german ethnicity murdering pro Russia east ukrainians that might or might not be ethnically Russian.

    If Russia did get involved it would be in support and weapons supply, which does not seem to be happening either despite EU sanctions imposed because of claimed Russian interference.

    The best thing Putin can do is stay out of it and call for both sides to come together in dialog to discuss the situation and potential solutions.

    Intervention and bombings is a last resort for any real democracy... and the first choice of the US and UK and NATO.


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    par far

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    How will the situation in Ukraine end?

    Post  par far on Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:48 pm

    How do you think will the situation in Ukraine end?
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    George1000cy

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    Re: Evolution of Eastern Ukraine War: Options and Outcomes

    Post  George1000cy on Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:13 pm

    With a big nasty war involving almost all countries in Europe. The only question is how many people will survive. To die later.
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    runaway

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    Russias role in future of western aggression in the Ukraine

    Post  runaway on Fri May 08, 2015 1:51 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    being on the brink of war with NATO means tactical nuclear weapons... not armour.

    Not if this Proxy war continues, if US supplies weapons to Ukraine, Russia will supply the separatists, which they probably already are doing.
    We will not see Armata or so but BMP´s and T-64´s, T-72´s including AA hardware. A battle with older weapons waged by militias and mercenaries.

    Then if Nato send troops to "help" Ukraine bring Peace in the east, the step is not far from russia to protect russian speaking people. So its not impossible we will se a limited Nato-Russia battle in east Ukraine with ordinary army units. However, the T-90 will be fielded, along with BMP-3, and it will be a Clash of a limited time and scope, hopefully.

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    Re: Evolution of Eastern Ukraine War: Options and Outcomes

    Post  Vann7 on Fri May 08, 2015 9:29 pm

    runaway wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    being on the brink of war with NATO means tactical nuclear weapons... not armour.

    Not if this Proxy war continues, if US supplies weapons to Ukraine, ..


    Then if Nato send troops to "help" Ukraine bring Peace in the east, the step is not far from russia to protect russian speaking people. So its not impossible we will se a limited Nato-Russia battle in east Ukraine with ordinary army units.


    Exactly..  Russia is not really taking seriously USA . Is relying too much in their nuclear weapons
    ,completely ignoring that US can attack Russia day and night by proxy as they doing in Ukraine
    right now!!!.   All that it takes to put Russia in real problems is that US and its anti Russian alliance send 30,000 strong Special forces ,armed to the teeth with all modern NATO weapons ,
    including long precision range artillery , NATO tanks and thousands of modern top attack anti tank weapons like SPike or Javeline ,to put the rebels in serious trouble and over run their positions. Since they are mostly using old weapons and old tanks.

    The US can also arm chechens with modern weapons or OverRun tajikistan with re-deployed
    ISIS mercenaries.. Russia needs Armata tanks this year.. at least a couple of hundred.. and not in 2018. By that time they will not needed.  Now is when they need them..  You also have the Syria war.. that last information says a major war will start soon there ,with NATO vs Syria.

    Russia is on a state of war and they act as if.. nothing happens and the war is not against them.
    Like Lavrov that today told is "Ready to cooperate with their NATO partners." They do not understand that their "partners" will not stop until Russia destroyed.They should take more seriously the major dangers their nation is facing today and rearm and modernize the entire armed forces.  3 years to test armata have to be a joke.. there is no time to delay , 3 turns of 24 hours work will cut that to 1 year.. with the same work. Still thats too long.. they need to have at least a few hundreds of tanks capable of fighting their enemies at their borders in a proxy war.. and not wait Kiev over Run with the help of NATO staff and lethal weapons eastern Ukraine. No

    arms62

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    Re: Evolution of Eastern Ukraine War: Options and Outcomes

    Post  arms62 on Sat May 09, 2015 5:24 pm



    [/quote]

    Exactly..  Russia is not really taking seriously USA . Is relying too much in their nuclear weapons
    ,completely ignoring that US can attack Russia day and night by proxy as they doing in Ukraine
    right now!!!.   All that it takes to put Russia in real problems is that US and its anti Russian alliance send 30,000 strong Special forces ,armed to the teeth with all modern NATO weapons ,
    including long precision range artillery , NATO tanks and thousands of modern top attack anti tank weapons like SPike or Javeline ,to put the rebels in serious trouble and over run their positions. Since they are mostly using old weapons and old tanks.

    The US can also arm chechens with modern weapons or OverRun tajikistan with re-deployed
    ISIS mercenaries.. Russia needs Armata tanks this year.. at least a couple of hundred.. and not in 2018. By that time they will not needed.  Now is when they need them..  You also have the Syria war.. that last information says a major war will start soon there ,with NATO vs Syria.

    Russia is on a state of war and they act as if.. nothing happens and the war is not against them.
    Like Lavrov that today told is "Ready to cooperate with their NATO partners." They do not understand that their "partners" will not stop until Russia destroyed.They should take more seriously the major dangers their nation is facing today and rearm and modernize the entire armed forces.  3 years to test armata have to be a joke.. there is no time to delay , 3 turns of 24 hours work will cut that to 1 year.. with the same work. Still thats too long.. they need to have at least a few hundreds of tanks capable of fighting their enemies at their borders in a proxy war.. and not wait Kiev over Run with the help of NATO staff and lethal weapons eastern Ukraine. No [/quote]

    ......you played toy battlefields much
    what to throw 30000 SOF time would be necessary, it is long hand, is new the Kremlin to Ukraine very short hand and the good air defense system... the question, whether will be able to reach the fifth transport USAF too Ukraine with the next 300 American superhamburgers.?????

    Vann7

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    Re: Evolution of Eastern Ukraine War: Options and Outcomes

    Post  Vann7 on Tue May 12, 2015 2:40 am

    Russia cannot use Nukes against Chechens or Ukrainians..unless they do not have plans to ever
    get some minimal level relations with them. Conventional Warfare is needed too.. otherwise Garry ,why bother building tanks? if Russia have nukes?

    If NATO start arming Ukrainians with their best conventional equipment and deploy 50,000 troops from 28 countries of NATO allies ,that is mercenaries from all Europe mixed with Ukrainians to over Run eastern Ukraine and later attack Crimea who is Going Russia to attack with a nuclear weapon? all NATO powers? No

    Unless you have not noticed ,there is politics too in war , and you can be forced at times
    to fight on their terms and their rules.. exactly what is happening in eastern Ukraine ,that Russia needs to keep a low profile with their help.

    Try to see just the whole picture from time to time. You cannot use nuclear weapons in cities with civilians to kill a few hundreds or fighters , so you need conventional war ,really good tanks that can survive Top attack weapons.. Or Else.. it will be as bad as if was chechenia that took Russia like 10 years to finish the war. and a few thousands Russian lives lost ..for poor equipment.  They have now good state of the art hardware.. and they are in a real and undeclared proxy war with the west..  So those new Armatas and T-15 should be rushed .. As if Russia was already invaded by Hitler again  the point here is that i don't think Russia will need 3 more years until 2018 to get in service their armata tanks if they were in the middle of a major war ,and invasion against their country.. and cannot use nukes because the enemy shield using civilians.

    Had Russia saw if was in the middle of a war already.. as it is happening now. .but Russia pretend to made it look there is no war.... instead of 3 years ,those armata will start entering service at lest by the end in 2015. the real difference is not that is takes many years to test a tank.. but that Putin do not see Russia in a state of serious emergency ,as it is today. A proxy war in Ukraine and potentially another chechenia war and in former soviet nations.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Evolution of Eastern Ukraine War: Options and Outcomes

    Post  GarryB on Tue May 12, 2015 9:44 am

    Russia cannot use Nukes against Chechens or Ukrainians..unless they do not have plans to ever
    get some minimal level relations with them. Conventional Warfare is needed too.. otherwise Garry ,why bother building tanks? if Russia have nukes?

    No Vann, Putin wont nuke chechnia... that is part of the Russian federation. they wont likely nuke the Ukraine... though kiev deserves it... they can just threaten a nuclear attack on a US base in Europe... and of course kill everyone who tries to smuggle weapons and equipment to chechnia in big fancy show trials... learn the sources of the money and issue international arrest warrants.

    Russia wasn't interested in Snowdon because the stuff he released... they already knew.

    Putin has already been painted in the west as an aggressive mad man.... why not play with that?

    If NATO start arming Ukrainians with their best conventional equipment and deploy 50,000 troops from 28 countries of NATO allies ,that is mercenaries from all Europe mixed with Ukrainians to over Run eastern Ukraine and later attack Crimea who is Going Russia to attack with a nuclear weapon? all NATO powers?

    If the west does that Russia can offer sanctuary to those in the Ukraine to live in Russia and then close their border and their gas pipes to the Ukraine and it can be the EUs problem... any attack on the Crimea would make the Bay of Pigs look like a picnic... the natives will resist and the Russians will back them all the way... after all it is Russian territory now.

    Unless you have not noticed ,there is politics too in war , and you can be forced at times
    to fight on their terms and their rules..

    Only an idiot would fight a war on the enemies terms... correction... and idiot and a loser.

    Look at every war of the last 100 years... just look at the Vietnam war or the war in Afghanistan... should the enemy of the big cold war power wear uniforms and march in nice straight lines to be killed by the enemies superior fire power?

    exactly what is happening in eastern Ukraine ,that Russia needs to keep a low profile with their help.

    The Ukraine has made its choice multiple times... they claim they are not Russian. Russia is respecting that.

    The west wants to make this a war between the Ukraine and Russia, but in actual fact it is a war between west leaning Ukraine and East leaning Ukraine.

    More precisely the west wants Russia to be greatly weakened... whether it is a war in the Ukraine or China they don't care... fortunately Putin isn't that stupid and it will likely be the west that has to foot the bill to repair the Ukraine...

    Try to see just the whole picture from time to time. You cannot use nuclear weapons in cities with civilians to kill a few hundreds or fighters , so you need conventional war ,really good tanks that can survive Top attack weapons..

    Except the problem isn't the few hundred or few thousand fighters... it is their political and financial supporters that are the problem... don't blow up a little village in the middle of the Ukraine when you can nuke Kiev. Plenty of those nazi fucks have stated if only they had nukes... Twisted Evil give them one.

    Or Else.. it will be as bad as if was chechenia that took Russia like 10 years to finish the war. and a few thousands Russian lives lost ..for poor equipment.

    Hahahahaha.... Ukrainian nazi government fighter does not equal Chechen rebel... on any planet or any reality... even unarmed.

    As if Russia was already invaded by Hitler again the point here is that i don't think Russia will need 3 more years until 2018 to get in service their armata tanks if they were in the middle of a major war ,and invasion against their country.. and cannot use nukes because the enemy shield using civilians.

    If you are not prepared to kill civilians WTF is the point of nukes? When could you ever use them?

    Do you think having Abrams tanks and F-22s would have meant the Iraqis would have beaten the US forces in desert storm? Having new western toys hardly helped the georgian forces in 8 8 8... in fact when they went to war they put all their new American toys in boxes and issued AKs for war... what does that tell you? And these Ukrainian rabble are not even comparable to the Georgians.

    A proxy war in Ukraine and potentially another chechenia war and in former soviet nations.

    The conflict is nothing to do with Russia... only the west wants to drag Russia into it.

    Personally I think Russia should supply new weapons and ammo and food and equipment, but they are only supplying red cross type aide... why should they change their stance and start supplying weapons?

    If you think they should get involved then why not launch an Iskander with a penetrator 500kg warhead into their government building during a session with all the nazis present...


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    runaway

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    Re: Evolution of Eastern Ukraine War: Options and Outcomes

    Post  runaway on Tue May 12, 2015 12:17 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    The west wants to make this a war between the Ukraine and Russia, but in actual fact it is a war between west leaning Ukraine and East leaning Ukraine.

    More precisely the west wants Russia to be greatly weakened... whether it is a war in the Ukraine or China they don't care... fortunately Putin isn't that stupid and it will likely be the west that has to foot the bill to repair the Ukraine...

    The conflict is nothing to do with Russia... only the west wants to drag Russia into it.

    Personally I think Russia should supply new weapons and ammo and food and equipment, but they are only supplying red cross type aide... why should they change their stance and start supplying weapons?

    If you think they should get involved then why not launch an Iskander with a penetrator 500kg warhead into their government building during a session with all the nazis present...

    It would seem both sides are getting ready for a summer offensive. This time i hope russia doesnt stop the separatists when they are winning, but help them with troops to take back all
    of their territories, and Kharkov oblast also.
    Aslo Kherzon and Odessa should be incorporated into novorussia.

    Besides volontary russian military servicemen, they could send many "military instructors" as the US do. This Is a Proxy war, and Russia should put an end to it rather Quick. New border should
    be Kiev-Uman and west, rest of phoney country ukraine should be novorussia. Time for Putin to take of the Gloves, he is dealing with Nazis and US conspiration for gods sake.


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    Re: Evolution of Eastern Ukraine War: Options and Outcomes

    Post  Vann7 on Tue May 12, 2015 12:56 pm

    I really think that instead of starting to nuke everyone in NATO, it will be far easier
    and far more practical.. instead of waiting until 2018 or 2020 to get armata in service..
    To spend more money for the significant acceleration of the program.. Ukraine for example
    Poroshenko just recently told have all their Defense Industry working around the clock..
    for 24 hours..

    While Poroshenko is preparing for war and NATO providing lethal weapons to them and training
    to their soldiers ,Putin is eating shit , speaking about being ready for dialogue with the west.. and taking things so calmly as if the drums of war could not be heard already at Russia border.  

    If Donetsk is overrun by well armed and trained NATO special forces , with top attack weapons ,im sure Russia will invade and push them back.. but it could cause them too many casualties ,that could be avoided if only Putin had the nation under a state of major emergency ,albeit without alerting citizens of it.. that is by having the entire defense Industry working around the clock, 24 hours.. and get their armata in 2015 and not in 3 to 5 years as the defense ministry have said.
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    GarryB

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    Temp the status ukraine

    Post  GarryB on Wed May 13, 2015 12:50 am

    I really think that instead of starting to nuke everyone in NATO, it will be far easier
    and far more practical.. instead of waiting until 2018 or 2020 to get armata in service..

    You are perfectly entitled to think that... but ask yourself the obvious question... if it was ready for service now why would they be waiting till 2018 to fully test it and put it into service?

    If it is not ready now WTF sort of half wit would put it in service now untested and not ready?

    It is like the AESA argument all over again... a mature and developed PESA is vastly more useful than a brand new and largely untested AESA that will cost more than 100 times more than a very good PESA.

    To spend more money for the significant acceleration of the program.. Ukraine for example
    Poroshenko just recently told have all their Defense Industry working around the clock..
    for 24 hours..

    Poroshenko has much bigger problems that Putin... Poroshenko has to turn untrained rabble off the street into an actual army... most of whom would rather not die fighting for a part of their country they clearly care little for.

    While Poroshenko is preparing for war and NATO providing lethal weapons to them and training
    to their soldiers

    Well it turned the Georgian troops into well honed artillery using civilian killers easily enough, but when faced with the actual Russian Army they didn't last very long.

    Putin is eating shit , speaking about being ready for dialogue with the west.. and taking things so calmly as if the drums of war could not be heard already at Russia border.  

    Perhaps he thinks a war on russias border is perhaps not the best solution... clearly you think it is...

    You clearly have a very high opinion of NATOs capacity to train cannon fodder.

    If Donetsk is overrun by well armed and trained NATO special forces , with top attack weapons ,im sure Russia will invade and push them back..

    And when the civilians in Donetsk start protesting this NATO occupation what are those super duper NATO special forces going to do? Murder them like the Black Water mercenaries did with snipers in Kiev?

    the Ukrainian Nazi squads are already well armed... where do you think the rebels are getting their weapons from? Changing AK-74s for M16s wont change much except that when they don't clean an AK properly it will continue to fire... I doubt an M16 or M4 will do the same.

    And the super duper top attack Javelin... scary scary. How many tanks do the rebels even have?

    but it could cause them too many casualties ,that could be avoided if only Putin had the nation under a state of major emergency ,albeit without alerting citizens of it.. that is by having the entire defense Industry working around the clock, 24 hours.. and get their armata in 2015 and not in 3 to 5 years as the defense ministry have said.

    Russia wont send in troops. It doesn't matter if they have T-90s or Armatas... or death stars.

    the chance of the US supporting an invasion of the Crimea now would be like Russia supporting an invasion of Alaska.

    BTW This has nothing to do with Kurganets or Boomerang so I am shifting this to a more appropriate thread.


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    Flagship Victory

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    Re: Evolution of Eastern Ukraine War: Options and Outcomes

    Post  Flagship Victory on Wed May 13, 2015 4:06 am

    Putin is extremely timid as far as Russian presidents go. Yeltsin fought a war with Moldova and freed Transnistria. Yeltsin fought two Chechen wars and regained Chechnya. Medvedev fought a war with Georgia and freed Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Putin mucked up big time responding to Euro Maidan.

    Syria is almost overrun by thugs trained and armed by the US, Turkey, Jordan who shot thousands upon thousands of TOW anti tank missiles. Now the US is training the same thugs in Lvov. If New Russia does get overrun, god forbid, then I think it would be time for Putin to step down. What Russia does NOT need is a timid president who endangers Russia's national security.

    If I were Putin, I'd recall ambassador to the US and cut all diplomatic relations with the US until the US stops arming UAF with military hardware. Simple as that.
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Evolution of Eastern Ukraine War: Options and Outcomes

    Post  TheArmenian on Wed May 13, 2015 4:58 am

    Flagship Victory wrote:Putin is extremely timid as far as Russian presidents go. Yeltsin fought a war with Moldova and freed Transnistria. Yeltsin fought two Chechen wars and regained Chechnya. Medvedev fought a war with Georgia and freed Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Putin mucked up big time responding to Euro Maidan.

    Syria is almost overrun by thugs trained and armed by the US, Turkey, Jordan who shot thousands upon thousands of TOW anti tank missiles. Now the US is training the same thugs in Lvov. If New Russia does get overrun, god forbid, then I think it would be time for Putin to step down. What Russia does NOT need is a timid president who endangers Russia's national security.

    If I were Putin, I'd recall ambassador to the US and cut all diplomatic relations with the US until the US stops arming UAF with military hardware. Simple as that.

    Get you wars straight my friend:

    Yeltsin lost the first Chechen war.
    The second Chechen war happened in Putin's time. Putin won that war.
    The Georgia war happened in Medvedev's time, sure. But it was Putin who was calling the shots.
    Crimea was returned to Russia in Putin's time with no shot fired.
    Novorossiya war is not over yet. Novorossiya would have lost without Putin's Voentorg and Northern Wind.
    Syria war is not over yet. Assad would have lost already without Putin's Syria express.

    I don't want to go over the rest of your post.

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    sepheronx

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    Re: Evolution of Eastern Ukraine War: Options and Outcomes

    Post  sepheronx on Wed May 13, 2015 5:04 am

    I would say that Putin semi-lost the Ukraine ordeal. He now has another hostile nation at the border hell bent on getting to be a US state. Putin's only trump card is the rebels in Novorussia and the de-stabilization of Ukraine. If US wanted to, they could print money to infinity and bail out Ukraine.

    Syria has much to thank Iran for more so than Russia, since Iran provides support in manpower and ammunition. Russia may supply with weapons but nothing is for sure. Maybe some training as well.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Evolution of Eastern Ukraine War: Options and Outcomes

    Post  Werewolf on Wed May 13, 2015 9:38 am

    Flagship Victory wrote:Putin is extremely timid as far as Russian presidents go. Yeltsin fought a war with Moldova and freed Transnistria. Yeltsin fought two Chechen wars and regained Chechnya. Medvedev fought a war with Georgia and freed Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Putin mucked up big time responding to Euro Maidan.

    Syria is almost overrun by thugs trained and armed by the US, Turkey, Jordan who shot thousands upon thousands of TOW anti tank missiles. Now the US is training the same thugs in Lvov. If New Russia does get overrun, god forbid, then I think it would be time for Putin to step down. What Russia does NOT need is a timid president who endangers Russia's national security.

    If I were Putin, I'd recall ambassador to the US and cut all diplomatic relations with the US until the US stops arming UAF with military hardware. Simple as that.


    You seriously should get facts straight before calling for anything.

    If not Putin russia would already been Sold out a 2nd time to the west or a hardliner would have nuked the shit out of NATO for the genocides they are committing against russia or tight military and economical partners.
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    Flagship Victory

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    Re: Evolution of Eastern Ukraine War: Options and Outcomes

    Post  Flagship Victory on Wed May 13, 2015 7:03 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:Putin is extremely timid as far as Russian presidents go. Yeltsin fought a war with Moldova and freed Transnistria. Yeltsin fought two Chechen wars and regained Chechnya. Medvedev fought a war with Georgia and freed Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Putin mucked up big time responding to Euro Maidan.

    Syria is almost overrun by thugs trained and armed by the US, Turkey, Jordan who shot thousands upon thousands of TOW anti tank missiles. Now the US is training the same thugs in Lvov. If New Russia does get overrun, god forbid, then I think it would be time for Putin to step down. What Russia does NOT need is a timid president who endangers Russia's national security.

    If I were Putin, I'd recall ambassador to the US and cut all diplomatic relations with the US until the US stops arming UAF with military hardware. Simple as that.

    Get you wars straight my friend:

    Yeltsin lost the first Chechen war.
    The second Chechen war happened in Putin's time. Putin won that war.
    The Georgia war happened in Medvedev's time, sure. But it was Putin who was calling the shots.
    Crimea was returned to Russia in Putin's time with no shot fired.
    Novorossiya war is not over yet. Novorossiya would have lost without Putin's Voentorg and Northern Wind.
    Syria war is not over yet. Assad would have lost already without Putin's Syria express.

    I don't want to go over the rest of your post.


    Putin was not even president when the second Chechnya war started in 1999.

    Putin mucked up on Euro Maidan. Had Strelkov and co not taken the initiative to capture Crimea, Ukraine would today be a NATO state with American tanks parked right on Russia's border.

    Putin stopped aid to Syria since 2011 while the US arms terrorists with TOWs. Only recently did Putin send some Kords and ASVKs to Syria.

    Putin never supported Donbas freedom fighters, not even with a single black tipped armor piercing bullet. Putin aids the Kiev junta by giving virtually free gas and coal to fuel Kiev's war machine, and stops Donbas freedom fighters from taking Mariupol and other cities. Had it not been for Minsk, Donbas freedom fighters would have taken back Mariupol, Slavyansk, Kramatorsk, Lisichansk, and the Kiev junta would have collapsed. Donbas freedom fighters don't need Putin. Legansk makes ammo since 1800s.

    Putin rejected Donbas request for peacekeepers, resulting in the deaths of nearly 10,000 Donbas civilians at the hands of the Kiev junta.

    Putin is a soft man like Yanukovych, and that's not how a president should be.


    Last edited by Flagship Victory on Wed May 13, 2015 7:15 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Evolution of Eastern Ukraine War: Options and Outcomes

    Post  Werewolf on Wed May 13, 2015 7:13 pm

    You really have talent to twist reality to blame Putin, maybe you should work for US State Department?
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    Flagship Victory

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    Re: Evolution of Eastern Ukraine War: Options and Outcomes

    Post  Flagship Victory on Wed May 13, 2015 7:27 pm

    Werewolf wrote:You really have talent to twist reality to blame Putin, maybe you should work for US State Department?

    You are welcome to try contradict me  Wink  I'm in fact pro Donbas. But what Putin has done, in regards to Euro Maidan, Syria, Donbas, Crimea, not good enough. Strelkov deserves more credit than he gets. He resigned from FSB in 2014 to participate in a super dangerous mission in Crimea and then in Donbas, thereby preventing American tanks on Russian borders today. Putin only acted after Strelkov acted along with other patriots. Had Putin been more capable in handling crisis, Yanukovych would still be in Kiev, or, at the worst, Donbas freedom fighters would today have all of Donbas and Syrian army would control all of Syria's borders. It was Putin's neglect and poor judgment that led to such difficult situations in Syria and Donbas today.

    We all learn from mistakes, and Putin should too.

    The situations in Syria and Donbas will only get worse. Once Obama is out of office, the next president, no matter Democratic or Republican, will definitely start arming Ukraine with tons of weapons, you can mark my words. When that day comes, would Putin arm NAF? That is the million dollar question. But from how Putin has handled crisis up till now, I would say he would not.
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Evolution of Eastern Ukraine War: Options and Outcomes

    Post  TheArmenian on Thu May 14, 2015 1:44 am

    Flagship Victory wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:You really have talent to twist reality to blame Putin, maybe you should work for US State Department?

    You are welcome to try contradict me  Wink  I'm in fact pro Donbas. But what Putin has done, in regards to Euro Maidan, Syria, Donbas, Crimea, not good enough. Strelkov deserves more credit than he gets. He resigned from FSB in 2014 to participate in a super dangerous mission in Crimea and then in Donbas, thereby preventing American tanks on Russian borders today. Putin only acted after Strelkov acted along with other patriots. Had Putin been more capable in handling crisis, Yanukovych would still be in Kiev, or, at the worst, Donbas freedom fighters would today have all of Donbas and Syrian army would control all of Syria's borders. It was Putin's neglect and poor judgment that led to such difficult situations in Syria and Donbas today.

    We all learn from mistakes, and Putin should too.

    The situations in Syria and Donbas will only get worse. Once Obama is out of office, the next president, no matter Democratic or Republican, will definitely start arming Ukraine with tons of weapons, you can mark my words. When that day comes, would Putin arm NAF? That is the million dollar question. But from how Putin has handled crisis up till now, I would say he would not.

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    GarryB

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    Re: Evolution of Eastern Ukraine War: Options and Outcomes

    Post  GarryB on Thu May 14, 2015 1:16 pm

    Putin has handled things perfectly... Russia has the Crimea back and no matter what the outcome the rest of the Ukraine will be the EUs problem... to be honest the Ukraine was Russias retarded half brother that Russia gave work on things they could have done themselves but let the Ukraine to out of charity.

    Libya turned to the west and got bitten... they are probably a bigger military trade partner now than before the NATO attack. Regarding Syria, they were looking west too...

    It was the Soviet Union that had a cause to push... russia does not need to spread anything... it can just do business.


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    Flagship Victory

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    Re: Evolution of Eastern Ukraine War: Options and Outcomes

    Post  Flagship Victory on Thu May 14, 2015 1:28 pm

    GarryB wrote:Putin has handled things perfectly... Russia has the Crimea back and no matter what the outcome the rest of the Ukraine will be the EUs problem... to be honest the Ukraine was Russias retarded half brother that Russia gave work on things they could have done themselves but let the Ukraine to out of charity.

    Libya turned to the west and got bitten... they are probably a bigger military trade partner now than before the NATO attack. Regarding Syria, they were looking west too...

    It was the Soviet Union that had a cause to push... russia does not need to spread anything... it can just do business.

    Crimea is back. But 99% of the work IMO goes to Strelkov. Strelkov and co took it upon themselves to capture Crimea. Putin did the official paper work. Putin never planned to take back Crimea. Had it not been for Strelkov, Ukraine today would have been a NATO country with American tanks parked right on Russia's border.

    TheArmenian wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:You really have talent to twist reality to blame Putin, maybe you should work for US State Department?

    You are welcome to try contradict me  Wink  I'm in fact pro Donbas. But what Putin has done, in regards to Euro Maidan, Syria, Donbas, Crimea, not good enough. Strelkov deserves more credit than he gets. He resigned from FSB in 2014 to participate in a super dangerous mission in Crimea and then in Donbas, thereby preventing American tanks on Russian borders today. Putin only acted after Strelkov acted along with other patriots. Had Putin been more capable in handling crisis, Yanukovych would still be in Kiev, or, at the worst, Donbas freedom fighters would today have all of Donbas and Syrian army would control all of Syria's borders. It was Putin's neglect and poor judgment that led to such difficult situations in Syria and Donbas today.

    We all learn from mistakes, and Putin should too.

    The situations in Syria and Donbas will only get worse. Once Obama is out of office, the next president, no matter Democratic or Republican, will definitely start arming Ukraine with tons of weapons, you can mark my words. When that day comes, would Putin arm NAF? That is the million dollar question. But from how Putin has handled crisis up till now, I would say he would not.

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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Evolution of Eastern Ukraine War: Options and Outcomes

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Sun May 17, 2015 3:41 am

    TheArmenian wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:You really have talent to twist reality to blame Putin, maybe you should work for US State Department?

    You are welcome to try contradict me  Wink  I'm in fact pro Donbas. But what Putin has done, in regards to Euro Maidan, Syria, Donbas, Crimea, not good enough. Strelkov deserves more credit than he gets. He resigned from FSB in 2014 to participate in a super dangerous mission in Crimea and then in Donbas, thereby preventing American tanks on Russian borders today. Putin only acted after Strelkov acted along with other patriots. Had Putin been more capable in handling crisis, Yanukovych would still be in Kiev, or, at the worst, Donbas freedom fighters would today have all of Donbas and Syrian army would control all of Syria's borders. It was Putin's neglect and poor judgment that led to such difficult situations in Syria and Donbas today.

    We all learn from mistakes, and Putin should too.

    The situations in Syria and Donbas will only get worse. Once Obama is out of office, the next president, no matter Democratic or Republican, will definitely start arming Ukraine with tons of weapons, you can mark my words. When that day comes, would Putin arm NAF? That is the million dollar question. But from how Putin has handled crisis up till now, I would say he would not.

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    Re: Evolution of Eastern Ukraine War: Options and Outcomes

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