Venezuela crisis

US vs. Latin American Leaders

The Venezuela elections will be something to keep an eye on, they will try to create trouble there, we can post all the updates here. To

par far wrote:The Venezuela elections will be something to keep an eye on, they will try to create trouble there, we can post all the updates here. To

Are they presidential or parliamentary?

I think the americans have their hands full elsewhere at the minute though to be honest

U.S. spy plane invaded Venezuelan airspace, embattled President Maduro says

Venezuelan military detected a Boeing 707 E-3 Sentry aircraft over guarded airspace twice last week -- just after 6 a.m. local time on May 11 and May 13.

"Our military aviation detected the illegal entry, for unusual espionage tasks, of the [plane], which is an airborne early warning control center system that has all the mechanisms for espionage," Maduro said.

The leader further stated that the E3 Sentry, also known as AWACS, is used by Washington "to support communications of armed groups in war zones or to prepare actions to disable electronic equipment (of the) government, the armed forces or the economy."

Maduro added that the "illegal entries ... are going to be severely protested to the United States government."

Hungry Venezuelans Flee in Boats to Escape Economic Collapse

By NICHOLAS CASEY
NOV. 25, 2016



WILLEMSTAD, Curaçao — The dark outlines of land had just come into view when the smuggler forced everyone into the sea. Roymar Bello screamed. She was one of 17 passengers who had climbed onto the overloaded fishing boat with aging motors in July, hoping to escape Venezuela’s economic disaster for a new life on the Caribbean island of Curaçao.

Afraid of the authorities, the smuggler refused to land. Ms. Bello said he gruffly ordered her and the others into the water, pointing toward the distant shore. In the panic, she was tossed overboard, tumbling into the predawn blackness. But Ms. Bello could not swim.

As she began to sink under the waves, a fellow migrant grabbed her by the hair and towed her toward the island. They washed up on a rocky cliff battered by waves. Bruised and bleeding, they climbed, praying for a lifeline: jobs, money, something to eat. “It was worth the risk,” said Ms. Bello, 30, adding that Venezuelans like her “are going after one thing: food.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/25/world/americas/hungry-venezuelans-flee-in-boats-to-escape-economic-collapse.html

Let’s call Venezuela what it is under Maduro: a dictatorship

Reynaldo Trombetta
Thursday 17 November 2016 13.45 GMT



Very few outside Venezuela seem to have the courage to describe it as such, but the country under Nicolás Maduro is now a dictatorship. The heir of Hugo Chávez has shown that he will happily violate all principles of democracy and human rights to remain in power. For years, Chávez proudly reminded the world how many elections he had won, and how his revolution was giving a voice to the impoverished masses. Today, Maduro has no interest in anybody else’s voice – especially the growing majority that opposes him.

The presidential recall referendum, which could have led to early elections if it had been held this year, was killed off by regional courts that had no say in electoral matters. The elections for governors and mayors, which would have been a major defeat for the “Chavistas”, were arbitrarily postponed by the government-controlled Electoral Council. And the National Assembly, in which the opposition holds a two-thirds majority, continues to be obstructed by a supreme court also controlled by Maduro.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/17/venezuela-nicolas-maduro-dictatorship-elections-jeremy-corbyn

It's true, the Bolivaran revolution has failed. Chavez was assassinated (his cancer was instigated). This time around the
Yankees succeed where in the case of Castro and the Cuban revolution they failed.

Maduro is a joke and likely a secret sell out. Venezuelans are going to suffer for many years even after some US stooge
gets into power. Uncle Scumbag ain't no socialist charity giver.

kvs wrote:Yankees succeed where in the case of Castro and the Cuban revolution they failed.

I'm not sure if Raul's Cuba is a success, and the country didn't achieve anything significant post 1991.

kvs wrote:Maduro is a joke and likely a secret sell out.   Venezuelans are going to suffer for many years even after some US stooge
gets into power.   Uncle Scumbag ain't no socialist charity giver.

I agree. Chavez was charismatic and made the right choices with regards to strengthening the military. Maduro is a complete joke, an amateur and dangerous.

After Trump was elected sites that offered immigrants housing and jobs in NZ got 20 times the normal traffic for this time of year from the US...

Talking about economic migrants buying illegal passage to another country means very little on the surface in terms of politics.

The Zionists have started their colour revolution in Venezuela, hopefully Russia helps.

https://www.rt.com/news/385327-venezuela-march-government-maduro/

par far wrote:The Zionists have started their colour revolution in Venezuela, hopefully Russia helps.    

https://www.rt.com/news/385327-venezuela-march-government-maduro/

Russia can't spread itself thin all over the world trying to fix everyone's problems. Venezuela went down hill after Chavez died. It
looks like the country was not ready for progress and will revert to its 1990s pseudo-banana republic "normalcy". I know that
Uncle Scumbag is meddling, but that can't explain the slow train wreak we are seeing over the last few years.

kvs wrote:

par far wrote:The Zionists have started their colour revolution in Venezuela, hopefully Russia helps.    

https://www.rt.com/news/385327-venezuela-march-government-maduro/

Russia can't spread itself thin all over the world trying to fix everyone's problems.   Venezuela went down hill after Chavez died.  It
looks like the country was not ready for progress and will revert to its 1990s pseudo-banana republic "normalcy".   I know that
Uncle Scumbag is meddling, but that can't explain the slow train wreak we are seeing over the last few years.    

Believe me, Venezuela was foolish, there government got to absorbed by revolutionary ideals (Castro), and was never focused enough on making Venezuela truly independent, they should have networked and coordinated with Russia and China not just militarily, but also economically, i will take a deeper look into this soon.

There is definitely a laundry list of issues here.

From what I learned, is that the generals control the country and that they may get rid of Maduro and replace him with someone else. Might be the best option to make it look like the opposition won, when in the end, it doesn't matter.

The generals ruling the country is what making it fall apart. They did their try, best as it may, at trying to take control of their economy and not just oil/gas. But it didn't work out well since the food industry is heavily controlled and now damaged.

They did the same thing to Cuba for many years but Cuba had the USSR for help. There is no USSR anymore.

Cuba got economically blockaded - they couldn't sell their products to anyone (not the U.S, not to Latin America). Their currency wasn't worth a cent (so how are you going to buy things?). The country's industry wasn't developed either, certainly not human capital. Mercenaries and CIA agents not only tried to take out Castro and people influential in the government (cuba lost many diplomats etc) but also resorted to sabotage of economic infrastructure, including the spread of diseases on crops (sugar cane etc - which forced Cuba to use lower yield (yet resistant to disease) sugar cane (thus lower production) - among other things), setting on fire electrical power plants - among many other horrors. The U.S threw the kitchen sink at the Cubans, short of an invasion by their armed forces - not for the lack of trying one first - the Bay of Pigs.

What did Cuba had that helped? Exceptional leadership (specially at the very top), smart, determined, patriotic - despite being young. Cuba also had a strong backer that gave enormous aid - USSR. Cuba was an island with no borders thus shielded by the sea from pressure and puppeteers from other states that would have wrecked havoc in the country. Lastly, the Cuban leadership cracked down on "opposition" and shipped it abroad - mainly the U.S. Thus the "opposition" couldn't nest and conspire within Cuban territory to set the country ablaze.

Later on with the years the Cubans developed many more defenses:

1. A proper security apparatus - G-2 (today the Cuban DI - world class) (under the initial tutelage, and later cooperation (till this day) with the KGB/FSB).

2. The economy gained some semblance of growth in production (even though their main trading partners were continents away (Soviet block) and machinery was still lacking for industries that were non-existant in the Soviet block.)

3. Proper army for defense - late 70s, 80s unrivaled in Latam in my opinion. None of the clowns in the South, not even Brazil held a candle - not in training, quality of personal, leadership, quality of hardware etc.

4. Welfare programs (education, healthcare (extremely important), food basket...)

5. Indoctrination.

Venezuela lacks many of these things.

First, the opposition is owned by the oligarchs, and do the bidding of a foreign state (useful idiots). Thus, their own people are their own enemy. You can't ship them out like Cuba did.

Venezuela has a border with an "unfriendly" state - Colombia. Colombia is used not only as a propaganda front against Venezuela but also ships saboteurs into the country and hosts scheming traitors + CIA.

The big key to the puzzle is economic sabotage. It started with oil prices plunging (we all know by design) and the economic crisis of 2008. Even for Russia, it took time to adjust and get out of it. Imagine Venezuela with literally no major industry outside of it - nor prepared for it.

Inflation leads to shortages of food and basic necessities as prices skyrocket. Economic saboteurs and oligarchs take advantage of the situation and create artificial shortages by withholding supply and stashing goods. Meanwhile other economic saboteurs sabotage the electric grids etc. Same old book. The difference vs. the Cubans is that while all of that is going on, the opposition is complicit with this destabilization, aid it and abet it - aka treason. So it's hard to defend without dismantling the system of governance that constitutes Venezuela today (which opens a whole other can of worms - perhaps civil war or intervention by the U.S militarily). The Venezuelan security apparatus is also a joke which is why the Cuban DI has to pretty much function as one - but they're spread too thin and constrained by many things. It's easier to create chaos (CIA and their lackies) rather than bring order under such a polarized situation. There is also corruption which complicates matters even more - which, alone, is a problem, imagine on top of all of this.

Discontent and chaos is bound to be fever pitch. That's why governments that have adopted the American institutional system of governance crack so easily in Latin America after some heat.

The clowns are scheming for Nicaragua next as well - the NICA Act. The big price is still Cuba - post Castro's - soon. Venezuelan oil is key to Cuba's welfare under preferential trade. I don't picture Russia being generous sending oil tankers daily to Cuba. Nor I picture the Chinese giving free aid in the billions like the U.S does to Israel. The Chinese also get along with the Cubans on a superficial level - Cuba's unconditional support for Vietnam has always been a problem with China.

There is only one counter balance in the region - and that is Cuba. Hopefully the two big world powers a continent away recognize the need to protect it at all cost (barring military conflict with the U.S). There is no other state in the region with the geopolitical shops that can flip states like Cuba in the region. Flipped states = access for Russian/Chinesse capital, markets for Sino-Russian companies + political influence/geopolitical counterbalance = preoccupation for the U.S in its near abroad. Thus spreading the U.S thin in other areas. That's how the game is played.

Venezuela screwed itself with its agricultural industry. They COULD have gone the way of Argentina and Brazil by using a lot of that money they used for military, to advance their agricultural industry. And of course, their policing and general security to deal with foreign agents. If they could have at least developed its economy to be a bit more self reliant in the region, like Bolivia is doing, then it wouldn't have the problems it is having now. But instead....

And it is general incompetence of the leadership.

I really hope that Russia and China step in to help Venezuela, Russia and China want a multi polar world and if they help countries like Venezuela, when they need it, than only will they have a multi poplar world.

par far wrote:I really hope that Russia and China step in to help Venezuela, Russia and China want a multi polar world and if they help countries like  Venezuela, when they need it, than only will they have a multi poplar world.

Too little to late, that country already in the early stages of a "color revolution", and IMO there is no stopping it.

AlfaT8 wrote:

par far wrote:I really hope that Russia and China step in to help Venezuela, Russia and China want a multi polar world and if they help countries like  Venezuela, when they need it, than only will they have a multi poplar world.

Too little to late, that country already in the early stages of a "color revolution", and IMO there is no stopping it.

In many ways it is better if Maduro is regime changed and the Venezuelan people "reap the benefits" of Uncle Scumbag's
"generosity" like Ukrainians. America is not in the charity business and Venezuela's oil revenues will be siphoned off shore
just like they were before Chavez shared the wealth with the impoverished Venezuelan majority. Note that there is a lie
making the rounds of all the alt-right sites that Venezuela was one of the richest countries in Latin America before Chavez.
No the f*ck it wasn't. It was one of the poorest and only had wealth on paper since the basis of this wealth, oil, was
not going into Venezuela's economy aside for some skimming by the comprador 1%.

If Venezuelans are starving now, they will starve more after Maduro is removed. They really need to go through this learning
experience.

kvs wrote:

AlfaT8 wrote:

par far wrote:I really hope that Russia and China step in to help Venezuela, Russia and China want a multi polar world and if they help countries like  Venezuela, when they need it, than only will they have a multi poplar world.

Too little to late, that country already in the early stages of a "color revolution", and IMO there is no stopping it.

In many ways it is better if Maduro is regime changed and the Venezuelan people "reap the benefits" of Uncle Scumbag's
"generosity" like Ukrainians.    America is not in the charity business and Venezuela's oil revenues will be siphoned off shore
just like they were before Chavez shared the wealth with the impoverished Venezuelan majority.   Note that there is a lie
making the rounds of all the alt-right sites that Venezuela was one of the richest countries in Latin America before Chavez.
No the f*ck it wasn't.   It was one of the poorest and only had wealth on paper since the basis of this wealth, oil, was
not going into Venezuela's economy aside for some skimming by the comprador 1%.  

If Venezuelans are starving now, they will starve more after Maduro is removed.   They really need to go through this learning
experience.

They've been going through this learning experience for decades in the region. As long as a sizeable chuck of the elite sell-off and get on board there is no big power counter balance to shield the country from economic warfare. Even Russia has a fifth column. These things are bound to repeat themselves over and over and over. Brazil is not immune, Argentina is not immune. The only country that is immune in the region is Cuba and that's because they're closed as hell and have been conditioned through decades facing it, experiencing it - there is societal conscience of who the enemy is and how it operates - a practical defense of sorts - which must be maintained continually and it comes at a price as well - pick your poison if you will. There is no current country/leadership in Latin America that would survive a destabilization/regime change putsch by the U.S - absolutely none. The U.S has it down to science - picking and choosing when to exploit weaknesses - like for example waiting for popular leaders to pass off (Chavez, Lula) etc...There are so many aspects to it. These countries need an umbrella from elsewhere - they don't have it because neither China nor Russia can provide it. Hopefully in the next 20-30 years that starts to change. Also,to shift from defense to offense - destabilizing countries under the U.S umbrella preoccupies them on their own, instead of your own umbrella. The more things change the more they stay the same.

Venezuela is key for Cuba, Bolivia, Ecuador and others. The country falling will set back many things. Only Brazil's Lula could fill the void and if he does get in he'll be extremely busy cleaning up the mess in Brazil currently. In short, chaos wins. Look no further than Ukraine or Syria.

No question about US meddling in Venezuela as well as other South American nations. And we wonder why the image of the Ugly American still persists? : ( As per Venezuela, Chavez did not manage the country's money particularly well which accounts for a lot of the current problems. And I don't believe Maduro is the socialist in the tradition of Chavez. His shutting down the legislature is pretty much proof of that. I view him as an autocrat by and large.

"MILITARY COUP ATTEMPT IN VENEZUELA (VIDEOS)."


https://southfront.org/military-coup-attempt-venezuela-videos/