Agreed, they are a bunch of rebel thugs trying to get a buck or two from the US govt. Eventually, most private military companies will rebel and "morph into" a Blackwater of sorts. That is, unless they are directly watched by a government or external force. Look at the incidents created by Blackwater, there are many of them...GarryB wrote:Blackwater bashing is fully justified... they act like a law unto themselves and can ignore the laws of war because they never seem to be held accountable for crimes that if they were in the military would be considered war crimes.
Consider them a branch of the CIA that is even less accountable to anyone, though I doubt their main revenue fund source is drugs like the CIA.
+17
Backman
Hole
kvs
Russian_Patriot_
flamming_python
Finty
PapaDragon
George1
JohninMK
sepheronx
GarryB
Asf
Werewolf
Mike E
Regular
NationalRus
par far
21 posters
Russian Private Military Companies
Mike E- Posts : 2619
Points : 2651
Join date : 2014-06-19
Location : Bay Area, CA
- Post n°16
Re: Russian Private Military Companies
par far- Posts : 3488
Points : 3733
Join date : 2014-06-27
- Post n°17
Re: Russian Private Military Companies
Mike E wrote:Agreed, they are a bunch of rebel thugs trying to get a buck or two from the US govt. Eventually, most private military companies will rebel and "morph into" a Blackwater of sorts. That is, unless they are directly watched by a government or external force. Look at the incidents created by Blackwater, there are many of them...GarryB wrote:Blackwater bashing is fully justified... they act like a law unto themselves and can ignore the laws of war because they never seem to be held accountable for crimes that if they were in the military would be considered war crimes.
Consider them a branch of the CIA that is even less accountable to anyone, though I doubt their main revenue fund source is drugs like the CIA.
I think Blackater did what the US government told them to do and that was to kill innocent civilians and create chaos, so the US could justify being in Iraq or elsewhere.
Regular- Posts : 3872
Points : 3846
Join date : 2013-03-11
Location : Ukrolovestan
- Post n°18
Re: Russian Private Military Companies
blackwater is blackwater. Don't paint everyone with the same brush. There are plenty of PMCs around the world who doesn't have such infamous status. Thanks to Blackwater crimes US PMC companies are not welcome.
Mike E- Posts : 2619
Points : 2651
Join date : 2014-06-19
Location : Bay Area, CA
- Post n°19
Re: Russian Private Military Companies
par far wrote:Mike E wrote:Agreed, they are a bunch of rebel thugs trying to get a buck or two from the US govt. Eventually, most private military companies will rebel and "morph into" a Blackwater of sorts. That is, unless they are directly watched by a government or external force. Look at the incidents created by Blackwater, there are many of them...GarryB wrote:Blackwater bashing is fully justified... they act like a law unto themselves and can ignore the laws of war because they never seem to be held accountable for crimes that if they were in the military would be considered war crimes.
Consider them a branch of the CIA that is even less accountable to anyone, though I doubt their main revenue fund source is drugs like the CIA.
I think Blackater did what the US government told them to do and that was to kill innocent civilians and create chaos, so the US could justify being in Iraq or elsewhere.
Or it was just them abusing their freedom... Military business should be done by the military or government, not some chaos-producing private company.
par far- Posts : 3488
Points : 3733
Join date : 2014-06-27
- Post n°20
Private military companies
Russia already has some private military companies, what do you guys think about really expanding them and supporting them. They can be a good foreign policy tool, there was a bill but it was voted down but the polictian who made the bill is fixing it up and bringing it back.
https://www.rt.com/politics/316276-government-rejects-bill-to-introduce/
https://www.rt.com/politics/316276-government-rejects-bill-to-introduce/
Werewolf- Posts : 5920
Points : 6109
Join date : 2012-10-25
- Post n°21
Re: Russian Private Military Companies
par far wrote:Russia already has some private military companies, what do you guys think about really expanding them and supporting them. They can be a good foreign policy tool, there was a bill but it was voted down but the polictian who made the bill is fixing it up and bringing it back.
https://www.rt.com/politics/316276-government-rejects-bill-to-introduce/
We discussed that already on some other thread, most are against it since russia isn't some evil empire like US that sends its terrorists.
Private Military companies are merceneries and since they do not account for a country they are freely counted as terrorists.
GarryB- Posts : 39169
Points : 39667
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
- Post n°22
Re: Russian Private Military Companies
You could argue that it is a practical and more positive thing for ex special forces soldiers to do after service... but then who wants private armies for people with money in their countries?
I am sure George Soros would love to set up a mercenary unit there...
I am sure George Soros would love to set up a mercenary unit there...
sepheronx- Posts : 8558
Points : 8820
Join date : 2009-08-06
Age : 34
Location : Canada
- Post n°23
Re: Russian Private Military Companies
I guess the other option for these ex personnel I suppose is private security. There are plenty of them in Russia apparently, ones that deal with even just standard security for lets say banks or high profile locations in more dangerous locations. As well, there are the following PMC companies whom already operate in Russia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_private_military_contractors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_private_military_contractors
par far- Posts : 3488
Points : 3733
Join date : 2014-06-27
First time I heard about Wagner, I never knew Russia had PMC's.
https://southfront.org/russian-mercenaries-in-syria-and-around-the-world/#disqus_thread
https://southfront.org/russian-mercenaries-in-syria-and-around-the-world/#disqus_thread
JohninMK- Posts : 14831
Points : 14970
Join date : 2015-06-16
Location : England
- Post n°25
Russian Private Military Companies PMC
Myth or reality?
The December 9, 2016 Kremlin celebration of the Fatherland Heroes’ Day brought attention to one of obscure components of Russian clandestine paramilitary capabilities, when a photo featuring President Vladimir Putin and the leadership of the so-called Vagner Private Military Company surfaced on social media.
Vagner is the pseudonym of Dmitriy Utkin, a retired member of the Russian Armed Forces who at the time of his discharge commanded the 700th Special Operations Detachment of the 2nd Separate Special Operations Brigade of the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Ministry of Defense. He has gained experience in PMC operations while employed by the Moran Security Group where he participated in Somalia counter-pirate operations. Vagner’s deputy commander is also a Russian military veteran, Vadim Troshev.
Vagner represents Russia’s most ambitious experiment with the PMC concept. Elsewhere in the world, PMCs such as the Executive Outcomes and Erik Prince’s original Blackwater, which began as corporate security outfits, have evolved into de-facto extensions of national military power, occupying the niche between covert action and the deployment of regular special operations and elite forces.
As of this writing, the Russian government has not yet adopted a clear policy concerning the existence of PMCs in Russia. While a bill was introduced before the State Duma that would have provided a legal framework for Russian PMCs, it was tabled after some discussion. It would appear that the Russian government is in a “wait and see” mode, and the ultimate decision will depend on a number of factors. The first is the nature of Russia-West relations in the era of Trump, Brexit, and prospective wins by anti-globalist parties in the EU. Should the relationship evolve in the direction of cooperation rather than confrontation, it would reduce the need for PMCs. The second factor is the Syria experience, which is the the largest and most overt demonstration of the Russian PMCs to date, even though PMCs have been employed in achieving Russian state objectives for over a decade. Their usefulness has been demonstrated in Crimea and the Donbass, where a high number of quasi-PMCs were incorporated into the general concept of operation in order to fulfill missions that could not be performed by the Novorossia militias or regular Russian military forces for military or political reasons.
Syria is not only a more protracted and high-intensity operation, but also an opportunity to evaluate the relative advantages and drawbacks of relying on PMCs, as opposed to regular special operations forces and other elite formations. In that respect, Syria shows the evolutionary maturation of the PMC concept that gradually came of age during various operations in Central Asia, Caucasus, Crimea, and Donbass. In contrast to the US experience which adopted a top-down model of PMC use, the precursors of the current Russian PMCs arose spontaneously, in response to market demands, as it were, both around Russia’s borders and around the world, and which tapped into a large pool of trained veterans of Afghanistan and Chechnya. Ironically, Russian PMCs owe a lot to the United States or other Western powers which used Russian “privateers” in a variety of operations, including in Iraq. Even Vagner’s operations in Syria are the result of Dmitriy Utkin’s initiative. It is only in the last few years that the Russian Ministry of Defense decided to weave PMCs into the broader array of forces at its disposal, and Vagner’s effectiveness has provided an additional stimulus toward formally institutionalizing the relationship between PMCs and the Russian MOD.
Since Vagner’s existence or participation in the Syria operation has not been officially acknowledged, there are no reliable reports on the number of Vagner operators or the functions they perform. Some estimates run into as many as 400 operators in the country where they are more likely to see frontline combat than the active duty Russian troops. Vagner also suffered an unspecified number of casualties, including fatalities.
Finally, there is the question of what relationship will exist between the PMCs, the covert operations community, and the special operations formations on which the PMCs will naturally rely for recruits. The heavy US reliance on relatively undisciplined security contractors during its infamous Global War on Terror had the effect of increasing the death toll among the Iraqi and Afghan civilians who perished at the hands of PMC operators who were not accountable to either US or local laws, and of provoking an outflow of trained cadres from the US special operations units who opted for the far higher salaries and personal freedom that the US PMCs offer.
What that formalized relationship will look like may never be publicly known, for there are good reasons to maintain a certain level of secrecy surrounding what is, after all, an instrument of clandestine paramilitary action, which may also be a reason why a PMC law has not been formally adopted. However, considering that Vagner operators have received high military decorations for their contributions in Syria, it appears that Russian PMCs are here to say, and that they will enjoy a high level of prominence in the future. The recent talks with Libyan military leaders aboard the Admiral Kuznetsov suggest that Syria is not going to be the last battlefield for Russian PMCs.
https://southfront.org/russian-mercenaries-in-syria-and-around-the-world/
The December 9, 2016 Kremlin celebration of the Fatherland Heroes’ Day brought attention to one of obscure components of Russian clandestine paramilitary capabilities, when a photo featuring President Vladimir Putin and the leadership of the so-called Vagner Private Military Company surfaced on social media.
Vagner is the pseudonym of Dmitriy Utkin, a retired member of the Russian Armed Forces who at the time of his discharge commanded the 700th Special Operations Detachment of the 2nd Separate Special Operations Brigade of the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Ministry of Defense. He has gained experience in PMC operations while employed by the Moran Security Group where he participated in Somalia counter-pirate operations. Vagner’s deputy commander is also a Russian military veteran, Vadim Troshev.
Vagner represents Russia’s most ambitious experiment with the PMC concept. Elsewhere in the world, PMCs such as the Executive Outcomes and Erik Prince’s original Blackwater, which began as corporate security outfits, have evolved into de-facto extensions of national military power, occupying the niche between covert action and the deployment of regular special operations and elite forces.
As of this writing, the Russian government has not yet adopted a clear policy concerning the existence of PMCs in Russia. While a bill was introduced before the State Duma that would have provided a legal framework for Russian PMCs, it was tabled after some discussion. It would appear that the Russian government is in a “wait and see” mode, and the ultimate decision will depend on a number of factors. The first is the nature of Russia-West relations in the era of Trump, Brexit, and prospective wins by anti-globalist parties in the EU. Should the relationship evolve in the direction of cooperation rather than confrontation, it would reduce the need for PMCs. The second factor is the Syria experience, which is the the largest and most overt demonstration of the Russian PMCs to date, even though PMCs have been employed in achieving Russian state objectives for over a decade. Their usefulness has been demonstrated in Crimea and the Donbass, where a high number of quasi-PMCs were incorporated into the general concept of operation in order to fulfill missions that could not be performed by the Novorossia militias or regular Russian military forces for military or political reasons.
Syria is not only a more protracted and high-intensity operation, but also an opportunity to evaluate the relative advantages and drawbacks of relying on PMCs, as opposed to regular special operations forces and other elite formations. In that respect, Syria shows the evolutionary maturation of the PMC concept that gradually came of age during various operations in Central Asia, Caucasus, Crimea, and Donbass. In contrast to the US experience which adopted a top-down model of PMC use, the precursors of the current Russian PMCs arose spontaneously, in response to market demands, as it were, both around Russia’s borders and around the world, and which tapped into a large pool of trained veterans of Afghanistan and Chechnya. Ironically, Russian PMCs owe a lot to the United States or other Western powers which used Russian “privateers” in a variety of operations, including in Iraq. Even Vagner’s operations in Syria are the result of Dmitriy Utkin’s initiative. It is only in the last few years that the Russian Ministry of Defense decided to weave PMCs into the broader array of forces at its disposal, and Vagner’s effectiveness has provided an additional stimulus toward formally institutionalizing the relationship between PMCs and the Russian MOD.
Since Vagner’s existence or participation in the Syria operation has not been officially acknowledged, there are no reliable reports on the number of Vagner operators or the functions they perform. Some estimates run into as many as 400 operators in the country where they are more likely to see frontline combat than the active duty Russian troops. Vagner also suffered an unspecified number of casualties, including fatalities.
Finally, there is the question of what relationship will exist between the PMCs, the covert operations community, and the special operations formations on which the PMCs will naturally rely for recruits. The heavy US reliance on relatively undisciplined security contractors during its infamous Global War on Terror had the effect of increasing the death toll among the Iraqi and Afghan civilians who perished at the hands of PMC operators who were not accountable to either US or local laws, and of provoking an outflow of trained cadres from the US special operations units who opted for the far higher salaries and personal freedom that the US PMCs offer.
What that formalized relationship will look like may never be publicly known, for there are good reasons to maintain a certain level of secrecy surrounding what is, after all, an instrument of clandestine paramilitary action, which may also be a reason why a PMC law has not been formally adopted. However, considering that Vagner operators have received high military decorations for their contributions in Syria, it appears that Russian PMCs are here to say, and that they will enjoy a high level of prominence in the future. The recent talks with Libyan military leaders aboard the Admiral Kuznetsov suggest that Syria is not going to be the last battlefield for Russian PMCs.
https://southfront.org/russian-mercenaries-in-syria-and-around-the-world/
George1- Posts : 18342
Points : 18839
Join date : 2011-12-23
Location : Greece
- Post n°26
Re: Russian Private Military Companies
Libya has denied data on contracts with private military companies from the Russian Federation
Reuters, referring to the head of the Russian private military company of the RSB-Group, Oleg Krinitsina, reported that several dozen employees of this firm conducted an operation in Libya and left the country after it was completed in February. As the agency specifies, their task was the demining of the industrial facility in Benghazi. At the same time, the customer and the specific object, on which his employees acted, were not named.
"Any agreements or meetings with the Russian side are official and pass through the government of the Russian Federation and the command of the Libyan army," RIA Novosti's al-Manfur said, commenting on the publication of Reuters. He recalled that recently Marshal Khalifa Haftar, commander of the Libyan army, visited Moscow on the official invitation of the Russian authorities.
The military commander added that any contacts in the future also can not go beyond the official ones. "How can I negotiate with a private company and why?" - said al-Manfur.
https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=3&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://ria.ru/defense_safety/20170312/1489831628.html&usg=ALkJrhgWO16ddbXPTkeUgz23PUGjDOksmA
Reuters, referring to the head of the Russian private military company of the RSB-Group, Oleg Krinitsina, reported that several dozen employees of this firm conducted an operation in Libya and left the country after it was completed in February. As the agency specifies, their task was the demining of the industrial facility in Benghazi. At the same time, the customer and the specific object, on which his employees acted, were not named.
"Any agreements or meetings with the Russian side are official and pass through the government of the Russian Federation and the command of the Libyan army," RIA Novosti's al-Manfur said, commenting on the publication of Reuters. He recalled that recently Marshal Khalifa Haftar, commander of the Libyan army, visited Moscow on the official invitation of the Russian authorities.
The military commander added that any contacts in the future also can not go beyond the official ones. "How can I negotiate with a private company and why?" - said al-Manfur.
https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=3&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://ria.ru/defense_safety/20170312/1489831628.html&usg=ALkJrhgWO16ddbXPTkeUgz23PUGjDOksmA
George1- Posts : 18342
Points : 18839
Join date : 2011-12-23
Location : Greece
- Post n°27
Re: Russian Private Military Companies
About the activities of Russian PMCs in Libya
According to the resource "opex360.com" in the article "Libye: Une société militaire privée russe a envoyé des démineurs près de Benghazi", in accordance with Article 359 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, activities related to mercenarism can be sentenced for up to eight Years imprisonment. However, this does not prevent the existence of private military companies (PMCs), such as Moran Security Group (registered in Belize), Tiger, Antiterror-Orel, Slavonic Corps (registered in Hong Kong) or RSB-Group headquartered in ... Moscow.
Since 2012, several attempts to legalize the activities of PMCs have failed because of the opposition of the Russian Defense Ministry and the FSB, which have negatively affected the establishment of such organizations, because of fears that such structures, financed by oligarchs, may run counter to the interests of the state. But, in fact, they are tolerated with their presence.
So, in recent months it was reported on the actions of PECs Slavonic Corps and Wagner (created by Dmitry Utkin, a former GRU officer) in Syria. The same was reported about the Donbass.
Although two Slavonic Corps executives Vadim Gusev and Yevgeny Sidorov were sentenced to three years in prison for hiring 267 Russian citizens to take part in the fighting in Syria, although they were told that they would protect oil infrastructure facilities, some PMC leaders feel confident , As Dmitry Utkin, who was seen at a reception in the Kremlin in December 2016. And the employees of the "Wagner Group" carried out operations in Syria in close cooperation with the Russian army.
The uncertainty of the legal status around the PMC is "very useful", since "officially" Russia can say that it does not participate in ground operations in Syria. And if the staff of PMCs are killed, this is not a problem of the Ministry of Defense, because in this regard there is no resonance in the media.
This appeal to the services of PMCs also allows Moscow to operate in those territories for which there is no intention of seriously interfering. The founder of the RSB-Groups and the graduate of the "KGB academy" Oleg Krinitsyn likes to repeat that "what is not forbidden is allowed". In an interview with the French newspaper Le Figaro last year, he claimed that 86 of his staff, all former military men with experience, carry out demining operations in Libya, in the interests of an unnamed customer.
A few months later Krinitsyn raised the curtain over the secret in an interview with Reuters. According to him, about 12 Russian PMCs sent dozens of people to the zone controlled by the national Libyan army and report to Marshal Khalifa Haftar and the authorities in Tobruk that are not recognized by the international community.
The presence of these "counterattacks" was a simple "commercial agreement," Krinitsyn specified. Their mission, which ended in February, was the demining of industrial infrastructure in the area of Benghazi, which were repulsed by the forces of Haftar from the Islamists. In addition, according to Krinitsyn, PMC has the ability to protect their lives and the lives of their customers. In addition, he noted that "according to the military canons, the attack must be followed by a counterattack. And this means that we must destroy the enemy. "
The head of the RSB-Group also noted that his company did not work with the Russian Ministry of Defense, but, on the other hand, had contacts with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. He did not specify whether the "mission" of contractors was approved by the government of national consensus, formed under the aegis of the United Nations. But all the facts show that this was not.
Support of Marshal Haftar by Russia is not a surprise. However, Moscow is trying to play its role in the settlement of the Syrian conflict, trying to establish a dialogue between the two warring governments. On March 3, the head of the government of national reconciliation, Fayez al-Sarray, paid a visit to Moscow.
Haftor is also assisted by Egypt and the UAE, as well as by Frania, which sent troops, advisers from the General Directorate of Foreign Intelligence (DGSE) to his disposal.
Note bmpd. It is interesting that today, with reference to the Reuters news agency, information appeared that US and Egyptian military and diplomatic sources reported that Russia deployed a limited contingent of 22 military and unknown numbers of unmanned aerial vehicles at an airbase in Egypt on the border with Libya.
Agency sources said that "the United States noticed something that could probably be Russian troops and unmanned aircraft" in the Sidi-Barrani base, located 100 kilometers from the border of Egypt and Libya. According to the interlocutors of Reuters, the purpose of this placement should be "support for the commander of the Libyan army Khalifa Haftar," who on March 3 was defeated in battles with rebels from the Benghazi Defense Brigade, who attacked the oil ports controlled by his forces.
Cairo denies the presence of the armed forces of other countries. "On the territory of Egypt there are no foreign military forces from any country. This is a matter of sovereignty, "the agency said.
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2492192.html
According to the resource "opex360.com" in the article "Libye: Une société militaire privée russe a envoyé des démineurs près de Benghazi", in accordance with Article 359 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, activities related to mercenarism can be sentenced for up to eight Years imprisonment. However, this does not prevent the existence of private military companies (PMCs), such as Moran Security Group (registered in Belize), Tiger, Antiterror-Orel, Slavonic Corps (registered in Hong Kong) or RSB-Group headquartered in ... Moscow.
Since 2012, several attempts to legalize the activities of PMCs have failed because of the opposition of the Russian Defense Ministry and the FSB, which have negatively affected the establishment of such organizations, because of fears that such structures, financed by oligarchs, may run counter to the interests of the state. But, in fact, they are tolerated with their presence.
So, in recent months it was reported on the actions of PECs Slavonic Corps and Wagner (created by Dmitry Utkin, a former GRU officer) in Syria. The same was reported about the Donbass.
Although two Slavonic Corps executives Vadim Gusev and Yevgeny Sidorov were sentenced to three years in prison for hiring 267 Russian citizens to take part in the fighting in Syria, although they were told that they would protect oil infrastructure facilities, some PMC leaders feel confident , As Dmitry Utkin, who was seen at a reception in the Kremlin in December 2016. And the employees of the "Wagner Group" carried out operations in Syria in close cooperation with the Russian army.
The uncertainty of the legal status around the PMC is "very useful", since "officially" Russia can say that it does not participate in ground operations in Syria. And if the staff of PMCs are killed, this is not a problem of the Ministry of Defense, because in this regard there is no resonance in the media.
This appeal to the services of PMCs also allows Moscow to operate in those territories for which there is no intention of seriously interfering. The founder of the RSB-Groups and the graduate of the "KGB academy" Oleg Krinitsyn likes to repeat that "what is not forbidden is allowed". In an interview with the French newspaper Le Figaro last year, he claimed that 86 of his staff, all former military men with experience, carry out demining operations in Libya, in the interests of an unnamed customer.
A few months later Krinitsyn raised the curtain over the secret in an interview with Reuters. According to him, about 12 Russian PMCs sent dozens of people to the zone controlled by the national Libyan army and report to Marshal Khalifa Haftar and the authorities in Tobruk that are not recognized by the international community.
The presence of these "counterattacks" was a simple "commercial agreement," Krinitsyn specified. Their mission, which ended in February, was the demining of industrial infrastructure in the area of Benghazi, which were repulsed by the forces of Haftar from the Islamists. In addition, according to Krinitsyn, PMC has the ability to protect their lives and the lives of their customers. In addition, he noted that "according to the military canons, the attack must be followed by a counterattack. And this means that we must destroy the enemy. "
The head of the RSB-Group also noted that his company did not work with the Russian Ministry of Defense, but, on the other hand, had contacts with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. He did not specify whether the "mission" of contractors was approved by the government of national consensus, formed under the aegis of the United Nations. But all the facts show that this was not.
Support of Marshal Haftar by Russia is not a surprise. However, Moscow is trying to play its role in the settlement of the Syrian conflict, trying to establish a dialogue between the two warring governments. On March 3, the head of the government of national reconciliation, Fayez al-Sarray, paid a visit to Moscow.
Haftor is also assisted by Egypt and the UAE, as well as by Frania, which sent troops, advisers from the General Directorate of Foreign Intelligence (DGSE) to his disposal.
Note bmpd. It is interesting that today, with reference to the Reuters news agency, information appeared that US and Egyptian military and diplomatic sources reported that Russia deployed a limited contingent of 22 military and unknown numbers of unmanned aerial vehicles at an airbase in Egypt on the border with Libya.
Agency sources said that "the United States noticed something that could probably be Russian troops and unmanned aircraft" in the Sidi-Barrani base, located 100 kilometers from the border of Egypt and Libya. According to the interlocutors of Reuters, the purpose of this placement should be "support for the commander of the Libyan army Khalifa Haftar," who on March 3 was defeated in battles with rebels from the Benghazi Defense Brigade, who attacked the oil ports controlled by his forces.
Cairo denies the presence of the armed forces of other countries. "On the territory of Egypt there are no foreign military forces from any country. This is a matter of sovereignty, "the agency said.
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2492192.html
JohninMK- Posts : 14831
Points : 14970
Join date : 2015-06-16
Location : England
- Post n°28
Re: Russian Private Military Companies
Found this interesting. Sounds true but I don't know much about the subject. First paras more at link
Mercenaries are illegal under Russian law, but that doesn’t stop them from being a central element of the Kremlin’s geopolitical adventurism, whether in Ukraine or, even more clearly, Syria. The tale of Wagner, a St Petersburg outfit at the heart of the fighting in Syria, says much about the privatisation of statecraft and the mobilisation of private enterprise in modern Russia.
The private security industry is a major sector in Russia, but private military companies (PMCs), those directly involved in fighting in combat operations rather than simply guarding people, goods and facilities, remain outside of Russian law. ChVK (Private Military Company) Wagner, despite having offices in St Petersburg and a training camp on the grounds of a Russian commando base in southern Russia, has managed to thrive, perhaps because its main client has been the Russian state and its Syrian ally.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/od-russia/mark-galeotti/chvk-wagner-and-privatisation-of-russian-geopolitics
Mercenaries are illegal under Russian law, but that doesn’t stop them from being a central element of the Kremlin’s geopolitical adventurism, whether in Ukraine or, even more clearly, Syria. The tale of Wagner, a St Petersburg outfit at the heart of the fighting in Syria, says much about the privatisation of statecraft and the mobilisation of private enterprise in modern Russia.
The private security industry is a major sector in Russia, but private military companies (PMCs), those directly involved in fighting in combat operations rather than simply guarding people, goods and facilities, remain outside of Russian law. ChVK (Private Military Company) Wagner, despite having offices in St Petersburg and a training camp on the grounds of a Russian commando base in southern Russia, has managed to thrive, perhaps because its main client has been the Russian state and its Syrian ally.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/od-russia/mark-galeotti/chvk-wagner-and-privatisation-of-russian-geopolitics
PapaDragon- Posts : 13312
Points : 13354
Join date : 2015-04-26
Location : Fort Evil, Serbia
- Post n°29
Re: Russian Private Military Companies
JohninMK wrote:Found this interesting. Sounds true but I don't know much about the subject. First paras more at link
Mercenaries are illegal under Russian law, but that doesn’t stop them from being a central element of the Kremlin’s geopolitical adventurism, whether in Ukraine or, even more clearly, Syria. The tale of Wagner, a St Petersburg outfit at the heart of the fighting in Syria, says much about the privatisation of statecraft and the mobilisation of private enterprise in modern Russia.
The private security industry is a major sector in Russia, but private military companies (PMCs), those directly involved in fighting in combat operations rather than simply guarding people, goods and facilities, remain outside of Russian law. ChVK (Private Military Company) Wagner, despite having offices in St Petersburg and a training camp on the grounds of a Russian commando base in southern Russia, has managed to thrive, perhaps because its main client has been the Russian state and its Syrian ally.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/od-russia/mark-galeotti/chvk-wagner-and-privatisation-of-russian-geopolitics
OMG, Mark Galeotti at it again...
First of all, mercenaries definitely are illegal under Russian law, however Russian law does not apply outside of Russia. You don't need to be a lawyer to know that it's a slam-dunk case.
And as for training camp I don't see how it's any different from paramilitary ''patriotic clubs'' in Poland and Baltics or simple historic reenactment society...
George1- Posts : 18342
Points : 18839
Join date : 2011-12-23
Location : Greece
- Post n°30
Re: Russian Private Military Companies
This fighter appears to be with the mysterious Turan unit in #Syria.Turan is apparently made up of contractors from Russia & post-Soviet states.Note milled receiver AKS with FAB Defense furniture and 30-round mag.
George1- Posts : 18342
Points : 18839
Join date : 2011-12-23
Location : Greece
- Post n°31
Re: Russian Private Military Companies
The activities of Ukrainian and Russian private military companies in Africa
The first PMCs appeared in Ukraine even in the time of the presidency of Viktor Yanukovych. For example, the company Vega Strategic Services, founded in May 2011 and Omega Consulting Group, created in 2013 by Andrey Kebkalo, one of the founders of Vega Strategic Services. At the moment, the state does not have a clear opinion on these companies. The Ministry of Defense of Ukraine for a long time believed that these companies provide mercenary services (and the company refutes it) and until the last moment took a negative position towards the prospects for the development of this market, which could lead to a reduction in the number of trained reservists. But the deputy of the Ukrainian parliament Yevgeny Dayday recently announced his intention to introduce a draft law on the legalization of military companies.
This reversal happened at a time when Russian PMCs also penetrated into Africa. The Russian "Forces of Special Operations", which protect the president of the Central African Republic (CAR) Faustin Arshanja Tuader, are in fact employees of PMCs. The presidential guard now consists of employees of the "Wagner PMs", the sources of the bulletin reported, which confirms the report, a widespread resource of the Conflict Intelligence Team on April 23, 2018. This contract is of increasing concern to Western embassies. The company was founded by Dmitry Utkin (call Wagner), a former lieutenant colonel of the GRU of Russia. The contract of the company in the CAR was part of a large package of contracts for the supply of weapons, concluded in December 2017.
Under the contract with the Russian government, people of Wagner's PM were also deployed in the east of Ukraine, and later in Syria. In Syria, the company exists under the name Evro Polis and supports both operations of the Russian armed forces and the protection of the facilities of the companies Lukoil and Gazprom. Wagner could also appear in the Sudan.
Like the Ukrainian parliament, the Russian State Duma has been considering from the beginning of the year about legalizing PMCs. Previous attempts were unsuccessful.
In addition to political interests, Ukrainian or Russian companies have advantages in the eyes of potential customers: their personnel has experience of conducting asymmetrical fighting and are satisfied with reasonable salaries. And the premium for risk is greatly reduced. The initial salary in the Wagner PMC is about $ 2,000.
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3194554.html
Finty- Posts : 539
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- Post n°32
basic read about Wagner
Not focused on CAR but a decent/basic read about Wagner
https://www.fpri.org/article/2019/10/diplomacy-and-dividends-who-really-controls-the-wagner-group/
And more on Africa here
https://inss.ndu.edu/Media/News/Article/2425797/russias-escalating-use-of-private-military-companies-in-africa/
https://www.fpri.org/article/2019/10/diplomacy-and-dividends-who-really-controls-the-wagner-group/
And more on Africa here
https://inss.ndu.edu/Media/News/Article/2425797/russias-escalating-use-of-private-military-companies-in-africa/
flamming_python- Posts : 9055
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- Post n°33
Re: Russian Private Military Companies
Finty wrote:Not focused on CAR but a decent/basic read about Wagner
https://www.fpri.org/article/2019/10/diplomacy-and-dividends-who-really-controls-the-wagner-group/
And more on Africa here
https://inss.ndu.edu/Media/News/Article/2425797/russias-escalating-use-of-private-military-companies-in-africa/
Stopped at the first sentence of the first article, after reading that customary BS about hundreds of dead Russian Wagnerites in Syria
They don't have that amount of membership in total never-mind in Syria at any given time
Investigations showed that it was a Syrian battalion that a couple dozen Russian contractors were in support of, and that the vast majority of casualties were Syrian
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- Post n°34
Re: Russian Private Military Companies
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- Post n°35
Re: Russian Private Military Companies
Edgy...
They should focus less on branding and more on OPSEC, radio discipline and following orders
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- Post n°36
Re: Russian Private Military Companies
JohninMK- Posts : 14831
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- Post n°37
Re: Russian Private Military Companies
This is a quote just ripped from FP in the Ukraine thread that sets the scene behind this map exactly. Just look at the numbers
There are plenty of countries in the world that are on the contrary, coming to Russia with offers for partnership, whose population has no chip on their shoulder against Moscow and in fact is often positively disposed towards it. Take that huge effort, and invest it into these countries instead, it will bring far more dividends and more quickly.
He's back!
Spriter
@spriter99880
·
13 Dec
Map of Wagner Group Operations from their website.
There are plenty of countries in the world that are on the contrary, coming to Russia with offers for partnership, whose population has no chip on their shoulder against Moscow and in fact is often positively disposed towards it. Take that huge effort, and invest it into these countries instead, it will bring far more dividends and more quickly.
He's back!
Spriter
@spriter99880
·
13 Dec
Map of Wagner Group Operations from their website.
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kvs- Posts : 15185
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- Post n°38
Re: Russian Private Military Companies
Time for butthurt NATzO hypocrites to start crying. Big bad Putin is messing up their colonial agenda.
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- Post n°39
Re: Russian Private Military Companies
It´s time to expand the Russian Federation to Africa.
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JohninMK- Posts : 14831
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- Post n°40
Re: Russian Private Military Companies
I love the way they are turning Africa red, just like the British Empire did using the same colour.
No connection or similarity intended.
I wonder how many actual British troops, as opposed to locals under arms, we had in Africa, say in 1910.
No connection or similarity intended.
I wonder how many actual British troops, as opposed to locals under arms, we had in Africa, say in 1910.
GarryB likes this post
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