The Situation in the Ukraine. #9

Regular wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:

sepheronx wrote:So what is the situation in Mariupol? How come rebels didnt take it?

Give it some time, more and more Ukrainians will get sick of Porkyshenko's IMF austerity, Mariupol may very well break away given with enough time.

I doubt that IMF austerity or removal of parasha will change reality that there army in Mariupol. And Ukrainians will only hate Russia more even if they start living in the caves.  hav bad feeling that Donbass will be no better as it's now shelled to glass and I doubt Russia will ditch money on these folks. Yo have to literally rebuild everything again like after ww2. It has nothing to offer to Russia. Fossil fuel?

Vann7 wrote:

Russia have nothing to win by taking mariupol.. means more people to feed. Ukraine only contribution to Russia was
some spare parts to their missiles and a safe transit zone for their Gas.. but aside of that Russia needs nothing. So economically speaking ,Russia have more to lose than to win by taking more territory. The best thing that can happen
is either Poroshenko to get rid of the nazis and put them all in jail and make peace with Russia or simply that Ukraine economy collapse and nation disband. But a military solution is not an option..  Thats exactly what USA wants..
That Russia invades and later create a vietnam against them. With CIA and NATO special forces undercover attacking
RUssia checkpoints or road side bombs. etc.  This is why Russia even does not support the idea of sending Russian peace keepers under UN and Kiev agreement .. because they know the script how it will end.

Pensioners storm banks, sue president as economic blockade enforced on E.Ukraine



Kiev is enforcing an economic blockade on eastern Ukraine, where banks are closed and cash machines and credit cards aren’t working. Disrupted social payments to the elderly have become the most acute issue.

Only a handful of cash machines are still functional in the breakaway parts of the Donetsk and the Lugansk regions, after local banks received an order from Ukraine’s central bank earlier this week to “suspend” operations.

This follows a controversial decree signed by Ukrainian President Petro Porishenko on November 16 that is now coming into effect. Kiev is cutting economic ties with rebel-held areas by freezing BANK ACCOUNTS and stopping social payments, including pensions.

READ MORE: Ukraine scraps human rights treaty for rebel areas, cuts services, freezes banks

“As soon as we regain control [over E. Ukraine], all of the payments will be carried out,” Ukraine’s PM, Arseny Yastenyuk, said on Wednesday. “We would have liked people in the Lugansk and the Donetsk regions to be able to get their payments now, but we can’t send money there, because it gets stolen in banks and in cash delivery vehicles.”

Those willing to WITHDRAW whatever’s left on their accounts have to spend hours standing in queues. And what’s left is not much.

“I was getting my pension via Oshchadbank,” a woman from Makeevka told RIA NOVOSTI. “I have 3,000 hryvnas (around $200) left on my account. But I can’t get them. There has been no money in the banking machine for a week already. How am I supposed to live? I don’t even have money for my medicines.”

The only option left for many in the breakaway areas is to go to nearby towns under Kiev’s control and try to withdraw cash there. Many are trying to reissue their bank accounts in government-held areas, so as not to lose money. Queues at bus stations are huge.

Some pensioners are complaining they haven’t received their social payments for months.

“Ukraine says Donbass is a territory of Ukraine. But it came here with tanks and weapons instead of paying us pensions,” Anatoly Visly from the CITY of Donetsk told Russia’s Channel One. “I’m a war veteran and I have not received my pension for three months”.

A 72 year-old pensioner from Donetsk, Vladimir Steshchenko has decided that complaining over disrupted payments is not enough and is taking the Ukrainian president to court.

“Our lawsuit has been accepted and registered,” Steschenko’s lawyer, Tatiana Volkova, told the Ukrainski Noviny news agency. “The defendant is Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko, whose decree approved the illegal decision by the National security and Defense Council of Ukraine.”

Volkova believes there will be more similar lawsuits, as the presidential decree “differentiates between Ukrainians living in different territories,” which is contrary to the country’s constitution.



The leaders of the self-proclaimed republics of Donetsk and Lugansk have slammed the economic isolation decision, saying it was contrary to the September Minsk peace agreements, brokered  by the OSCE.

Vladimir Putin reacted to the decree on the economic blockade of eastern Ukraine by saying that the Kiev authorities were “cutting off those territories with their own hands.”

READ MORE: Putin: Economic blockade of E. Ukraine a ‘big mistake’

The Russian president compared Kiev’s confrontation with the Donetsk and Lugansk regions to Russia’s own armed conflict in the Chechen Republic, which officially ended five years ago. He said that even at the worst moments, Moscow did not stop paying pensions and other social benefits to the Chechen people.

Leaders of the self-proclaimed republics of Donetsk and Lugansk have meanwhile LAUNCHED their own social payments.

“Some of the social payments are done with the help of aid sent over from Russia,” the Donetsk People’s Republic Security Council secretary, Aleksandr Khodakovsky said on Wednesday, according to RIA NOVOSTI.

Payments to single mothers, large families, orphans, disabled children were launched in November, Khodaskovsky said. Pensions are, he says, high on the agenda, with plans to organize payments within a month.

http://rt.com/news/209283-banks-cash-east-ukraine/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome

kvs wrote:You see, genocide is OK as long as NATO's interests are served.   Next time you hear the NATO media screeching about genocide
recall the above and the total and absolute silence in the case of Ukraine.

kvs wrote:

sepheronx wrote:Oh great. Stupid bohonks in Calgary are crying over holdomor again, saying how we should all remember evil Russia.

Guess we should remember evil Brits for nearly wiping out a race of people, evil americans for enslaving blacks, evil turks for armenian genocide....

God, these people are far too much. Only line of defense is holdomor for their racist and stupid viewpoint.

These Holodomor blood libelists are the worst sort of scum.   The whole of western Ukraine (Rivne, Ivano-Frankivsk, Lviv, etc.) were
under Polish rule during the 1930s.   The forced collectivization famines extended from Soviet Ukraine to Kazakhstan, including the Volga
region of Russia.  The people of the Donbass lived through the Holodomor yet the Nazi-allied vermin from west Ukraine uses the
famine to beat them over the head with!

The obscenity is mind numbing.   The attempt to paint the forced collectivization famines of the 1930s as some sort of Russian
genocide of Ukrainians takes the cake for revisionist filth.   The Bandera-loving Ukrainians in Canada and the USA like to make
up stories how Russians either 1) did not starve while Ukrainians did or 2) that the Russians were settled in the Donbas after all
the original inhabitants died out.

I have some observations pertaining to point (2) above:

1) Show me the evidence!  I have not seen a single survey of the residents of the Donbas which would verify that they
are all there from after the famine.  Proof by assertion from Banderits originating in Lwow is simply not good enough.  I have
heard people from the Donbas saying how the have family graves they tend to from the 1880s.   Also, there are Serb and
Greek communities there.   Clearly these did not settle there during the 1930s and are evidence that the Banderites are
spewing hate fiction.

2) The Albanian majority in Kosovo is due to the fact that many of them settled there during WWII and after as Serbs
were ethnically cleansed from the region.  The Albanians were Nazi allies and the SS Skanderberg Division did its share of
atrocities.   After WWII, Tito prevented Serb refugees from returning to Kosovo (in the name of brotherly love
and ethnic peace, one supposes).  NATO has never taken these facts into account, all it cares about is that Albanians
are a majority in Kosovo.  Well, Russians are a majority in Crimea and the Donbas.   What is good for NATO is good for Russia
unless you believe in different standards and laws for everyone.

They are neigiotating. Porkie cannot stop the war at the moment. Because if the war is stopped, people can easily turn their attention to the MH17 crisis, and the criminal deeds of Porkie and Kyiv facist in this event will be exposed.

Meanwhile, the West is trying to get the industrial area of Donbass.

And these dogs are tricking each other.

Porkie want to trick the West into a no-ending war in Ukrainia. Porkie is hoping for the war funds from the West and hopes that he can steal some parts in this fund. However this cannot happen because right inside the Kyiv goverment, there are still independent figures who reject the domination of the West. And Porkie still want a victory to avenge the humiliating defeat of Kyiv forces.

But he cannot be successful. The reason is that, Russian military level is far superior than the West.

In Novorossiya, Russia provide information based on radar, AWACS, satellites to the separatists. And Russia use the information to reorganize and check the originally unorganized and divided separatist insurgents. Donbass separatists then make use of Russian advices and info, and then successfully defeat the attacks of Porkie.

How long the war can be ? Don't really know. But the what we can know for sure is that Porkie can't win. Ukie will suffer more and more, from lack of funds to lack of weapons. But the mad-dogs, war-like scums in Kyiv and in Washington DC will use that reason to demand for more funds, more investment, and the political scum will steal money from these funds for themselves. And the war can go on forever, because the mad-dogs, political scums can eat money forever.

That is how the U.S. make a war, for the political scums to eat money, and innocent people die. That's why we have Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan.

The very dangerous thing for the West is the level of competency and veterancy of Novorossian insurgents. One element in that competency is the growth and development of technology. New technologies in fact are very beneficial for the insurgents and guerillas. For example, in the past guerillas needed RPG and cannon to deal with tanks. Now they can have ATGMs, very convenient. Another example, today we can have UAV bombers with can do (some of) the work of B-52 in the past.

You can see, there are SAM, UAV, ATGM,... which are quite suitable or are specialized for guerillas, and for Novorossiyan insurgents. With the matureness, competency, veterancy and experience of Novorossiyan fighters, they can effectively use them with small modification.

Imagine the fate of the West, when passive radars become guerilla radars of Muslims in Iraq Syria Afghan. The guerillas can use it to shot down fighters, transporting airplanes, dominate the air... And imagine that these radars walk into the space of New York, Paris... or crazy nerds, crazy university students create the self-made UAVs and use them the bombard the White House ....

=====

The West want Russia to take part in the war Ukraina, just like the event of Spain in 1936-39. But the West is wrong.

You have to know that, the event of WWI and the 1939-1940 period of WWII is that, newborn, new power like Germany and Japan wanted to destroy the old and rotten colonial system of the West in order to gain a bigger share of power, and they made war because of that. The event of WWIII, a war with no killing, no gun firing, is the same thing.

And in WWIII, the opponent of the old rotten system is not Germany, but China and India. And unlike WWI and WWII, in this WWIII, Russia is in the same side of China and India.

In this economical world war III, the BRICS is destroying the rotten system of the West. For example, most of Latin America is rejecting the U.S. and is gathering around the leadership of Brazil. The south parts of Africa is following Mandela's country. And China and India... well, ha ha, they are growing with amazing speed while the West is still stagnating.

That's it. World War III has already begun. But Russia does not need to intervene in anyone. Russia does not need to go into Ukraina. The Trotskists dogs has already run away to Ukie. And in Russia, Stalin looks at that and says "ha ha ha, I win".

In WWII Germany attacked Russia. But in WWIII, China and India do not attack Russia.

In 1936, Russia sent troops into Spain. But in 2014, Russia does not need to send troops into Ukraina.

In 1936, there were dogs of Leon Trosky who were dreaming about an unreal global revolution. As a result, Russia spent an unneccessary and unsuccessful war in Spain. But today, Troskits are gone. Putin does not send troop to Kyiv.

And Putin has put the facist rotten Kyiv goverment into a war with no escape, no ending. The Kyiv facist cannot end this war, because they want to eat money from the West. And if the war is stopped, people will turn attention to the Mh17 and all the criminal deeds of facist regime in the MH17 will be exposed.

Meanwhile, The West is crazy about Donbass industrial area.

That's it. The West want to make Russia intervene into Ukraina. So that the political scumbag in Bavaria and in the West can become the new Hitler. But they fail.

You have to know that, no matter whether Russia did, Nazi Germany critically had to attack the West. They want to destroy the rotten colonial system of the West so that they can have a greater share of power in the globe.

But then the political scumbag of Hitler wanted to attack Russia. If Hitler had continued the attack onto England, he would have needed more aircrafts, warships, transporters, tanks. And the political scumbags who lived by simple weapons and machine pisptols would have fallen out of favour. The political scumbags and Hitler told the people that, their machine pistols and simple weapons could destroy Russia. And they attacked Russia. And in 1945 Russia went directly into Hitler's stronghold in Berlin to search for him. And Hitler commited suicide.

Today. Although our dear Merkel has to live toghether with some political scums from Bavaria and Denmark who eat American shit, but they are the minority.

Today, the Axis powers are China, Russia, Brazil, South Africa,... and they have Russia on their side, unlike WWI and WWII.

Therefore Putin does not need to send troops to Ukraina.

As Sa'iqa wrote:Isn't 50-60k for Donbass only?

The reason why I doubt this estimate is that it would break pretty much all trends in battlefield lethality evident in industrial/post industrial warfare - both in total number of casualties (a freaking high number for a relatively small army) and in proportion of various casualty types (dead/wounded/missing/captured). If they claimed 20,000 TOTAL casualties (dead, wounded, captured) - it would be a plausible estimation and I would believe them. But they claim 20,000 killed - which not only makes a ridiculously high casualty rate but it would also make the Donbass war the only war in modern history (since roughly 17th century) in which the number of dead exceeds the number of wounded (several times - unless you believe that the total number of wounded on UKR side is greater than the number of people in all Ukrainian military formations currently active )

Hell, even 800,000 strong Iraqi Army lost only about 30,000 dead and 75,000 wounded after one month of the most intensive aerial campaign in history + 4 days of devastating ground campaign... Where is logic in their claims?

flamming_python wrote:Most reasonable estimates of Ukrainian casualties I've heard of pin the number as somewhere around 8000.