Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+51
lyle6
rigoletto
Podlodka77
Krepost
Mir
ALAMO
LMFS
mnztr
GarryB
The-thing-next-door
d_taddei2
owais.usmani
Makarov420
hoom
Big_Gazza
marat
ult
dino00
xeno
Hole
Peŕrier
wilhelm
franco
George1
T-47
eehnie
Rodion_Romanovic
miroslav
Benya
flamming_python
walle83
PapaDragon
nastle77
SeigSoloyvov
KiloGolf
medo
Isos
JohninMK
max steel
Cyberspec
Honesroc
Kyo
TR1
magnumcromagnon
TheArmenian
kvs
calripson
Mike E
zg18
Dima
Viktor
55 posters

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 3157
    Points : 3159
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 25 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  Mir Fri Apr 19, 2024 8:47 am

    Are they still building the Pr.23130M's?
    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6761
    Points : 6851
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 25 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  ALAMO Fri Apr 19, 2024 9:08 am

    Yes, and there is a discussion about increasing the number.
    They have not commissioned the first serial ship yet if I am not mistaken scratch

    Mir likes this post

    Krepost
    Krepost


    Posts : 692
    Points : 694
    Join date : 2021-12-07

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 25 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  Krepost Fri Apr 26, 2024 10:51 pm

    Mir wrote:Are they still building the Pr.23130M's?

    Yes they are. Check the previous page.

    GarryB likes this post

    Krepost
    Krepost


    Posts : 692
    Points : 694
    Join date : 2021-12-07

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 25 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  Krepost Fri Apr 26, 2024 10:54 pm

    NIKOLAI KAMOV (Project 14400) has been launched.

    For Peacetime: it is a training ship for helicopter crews (to learn how to land on a ship).

    For wartime: It is a drone carrying ship.

    GarryB, xeno, Big_Gazza, PapaDragon, zardof, Hole and Mir like this post

    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 3157
    Points : 3159
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 25 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  Mir Sat Apr 27, 2024 4:20 am

    Could also be a very useful coastal patrol ship.

    GarryB and Hole like this post

    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 10778
    Points : 10756
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 47
    Location : Scholzistan

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 25 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  Hole Sat Apr 27, 2024 5:44 am

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 25 Scree821
    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 25 Scree143
    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 25 Scree144
    Haska-10 has been tested

    GarryB, franco, George1, PapaDragon, Rodion_Romanovic and zardof like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 39068
    Points : 39564
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 25 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  GarryB Sat Apr 27, 2024 6:10 am

    For wartime: It is a drone carrying ship.

    It is important that they learn how to operate drones on ships so drones can be incorporated into all of their ships, both defensive and offensive drone designs...

    Such a vessel would be useful for all five fleets as both a helicopter training vessel and also as a drone mother ship.

    Hole likes this post

    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 3157
    Points : 3159
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 25 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  Mir Sat Apr 27, 2024 7:53 am

    Hole wrote:
    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 25 Scree144
    Haska-10 has been tested

    They should rather revert back to the Zubr design - this LCAC copy is only good for peace time duties.
    The colour scheme looks "arctic" but even there I would prefer a closed top vessel against the harsh weather.

    GarryB, zardof and The-thing-next-door like this post

    The-thing-next-door
    The-thing-next-door


    Posts : 1296
    Points : 1352
    Join date : 2017-09-18
    Location : Uranus

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 25 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  The-thing-next-door Sat Apr 27, 2024 8:37 am

    Mir wrote:

    They should rather revert back to the Zubr design - this LCAC copy is only good for peace time duties.
    The colour scheme looks "arctic" but even there I would prefer a closed top vessel against the harsh weather.

    If the want a smaller hovercraft for landing vehicles they can go with a revised version of the Dzheyran, that way they have some extra capacity for future upgrades of tanks or light missile systems.

    The Murena is already incapable of carrying most of the upgraded legacy tanks, let alone the Armata family.

    GarryB likes this post

    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 3157
    Points : 3159
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 25 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  Mir Sat Apr 27, 2024 9:02 am

    There is just way too few of any of these magnificent beasts left.

    There was a lot of talk about restarting Zubr production for the Russian Navy but so far nothing has happened.
    The Dzheyran is classic - I would certainly like a re-design. The Murena is also a good design but as you say it's way too small as a tank landing vessel.

    The Zubr is in a class of its own and it can deliver solid firepower.

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 25 Zubr-c10

    GarryB, zardof and Hole like this post

    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 10778
    Points : 10756
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 47
    Location : Scholzistan

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 25 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  Hole Sat Apr 27, 2024 10:18 am

    this LCAC copy is only good for peace time duties.
    Zubr can´t be carried by LPD´s.

    Such a vessel would be useful for all five fleets as both a helicopter training vessel and also as a drone mother ship.
    Add a towed sonar, some torpedo tubes and a 57mm auto cannon and you got a nice little ASW ship.

    GarryB and PapaDragon like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 39068
    Points : 39564
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 25 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  GarryB Sat Apr 27, 2024 11:41 am

    Now they make the propulsion system of the Zubr themselves they could probably make some more... would be interesting to see what sort of armament and sensor upgrades they might apply.

    Regarding new landing hovercraft their new helicopter landing ships are due in a couple of years so they should be working on platforms that operate with it.

    There was some talk of the landing craft from the Mistral design being of interest, perhaps they might take some ideas from that... they already have Serna landing craft that could be used but I suspect a landing hovercraft that fills the full bay width of the new landing ships and can carry a few vehicles at rather high speed a few hundred kilometres and take them right up onto the beach past any in water beach defences would be interesting and useful... obviously they would have helicopter support for the landing and hopefully some destroyers with 152mm automatic guns for a little naval gunfire support.... maybe even a cruiser with a 203mm gun battery could be used.

    Guided long range artillery shells being fired at dozens of shells per minute would be the cheapest and most cost effective way of launching a drone swarm at a target on land or at sea. Instead of having hundreds of cells for rather large and heavy and rather expensive missiles, having a couple of gun turrets with large calibre automatic gun mounts firing large calibre shells with built in ramjet engines with guidance, they would not need enormous payloads... their kinetic energy from high flight speed and a small warhead with an incendiary component that detonates deep inside the target ship would create serious problems for most modern navy.

    Just shooting down 100 x 152mm or 203mm artillery shells would use up the air defence missile load of most modern western ships with most modern ships not being able to cope with that number of targets at that potential rate of fire.

    Even guns of 203mm is not cumbersome or expensive for use on ships or on land and swarm drones and precision strike rounds that reach 180km for the 152mm and maybe 250km + for the 203mm shells would be rather potent weapons for ships and coastal artillery batteries.

    Modified rounds could be designed to hit aerial targets too...
    Rodion_Romanovic
    Rodion_Romanovic


    Posts : 2424
    Points : 2591
    Join date : 2015-12-30
    Location : Merkelland

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 25 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Sat Apr 27, 2024 1:07 pm

    They are completely different ships
    https://en.kalashnikovgroup.ru/catalog/sudostroenie/rybinskaya-verf/proekty/katera-spetsialnogo-naznacheniya1/khaska-10


    The Haska-10 is 20.8 meters long, 12.5 meters wide, and 7.4 meters tall. Its total displacement is 45 tonnes. The hovercraft is equipped with two engines, each with a top power of 1,500 hp. It has a top speed of 40 knots, with a range of 400 miles
    It has a payload of 10 tons and a crew of 3.

    It is useful, but it has nothing to do with the massive zubr class.
    It is like comparing a An-28 with an An-124.

    The zubr class has a max displacement of 555 tons,
    It is 57 m long and
    25.6 m wide and a complement of 31 men. In addition to standard armament it can also carry 3 main battle tanks (up to 150 tons) or up to 8 armoured personnel carriers (APC).

    China already started producing their own Zubr class.
    It is highly likely that the production of zubr class for the Russian navy will be restarted in Feodosia, in a modernised version. I doubt however that this will happen before the situation with Ukraine is finally solved or that at least all of the eastern and southern part of Ukraine from Kharkov to Odessa (passing through Zaporozhye, Dnepropetrovsk, Krivoi Rog, Nikolaev)is back into Russian control.

    GarryB and Mir like this post

    The-thing-next-door
    The-thing-next-door


    Posts : 1296
    Points : 1352
    Join date : 2017-09-18
    Location : Uranus

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 25 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  The-thing-next-door Sat Apr 27, 2024 2:09 pm

    it can also carry 3 main battle tanks (up to 150 tons).

    Two now with the weight increase, unless they upgrade the future production craft.
    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6761
    Points : 6851
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 25 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  ALAMO Sat Apr 27, 2024 2:13 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:They are completely different ships

    You need to get align with our buddies from the BIGGER Team Laughing
    Deat Star is needed for everything, remember that!
    welcome What a Face Very Happy

    Rodion_Romanovic and Hole like this post

    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 13286
    Points : 13328
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 25 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  PapaDragon Sat Apr 27, 2024 3:46 pm

    Hole wrote:Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 25 Scree821
     .....
    Haska-10 has been tested

    Anyone got video of this?

    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 10778
    Points : 10756
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 47
    Location : Scholzistan

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 25 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  Hole Sat Apr 27, 2024 3:59 pm

    They are completely different ships
    Zubr was developed for operations in the Black Sea and Baltic.
    It moves from shore to shore.
    The Haska could fit inside a landing ship and move around the world to the place where it is needed.

    PapaDragon: Youtube, baby.  Very Happy

    GarryB likes this post

    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 3157
    Points : 3159
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 25 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  Mir Sat Apr 27, 2024 6:52 pm

    Hole wrote:
    Zubr can´t be carried by LPD´s.

    With a little help from a hammer the Haska-10 can easily fit inside the Zubr tongue Laughing

    GarryB and Rodion_Romanovic like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 39068
    Points : 39564
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 25 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  GarryB Sat Apr 27, 2024 9:43 pm

    The Haska could fit inside a landing ship and move around the world to the place where it is needed.

    Pretty sure Haska is just a commercial transport vehicle for arctic regions and places without road or rail access.

    From the Kalashnikov website:

    Husky-10
    The Haska-10 was developed under the state program of the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation «Development of shipbuilding and equipment for the exploration of offshore fields in 2013-2030».
    Displacement, tonnes 35.7
    Speed, knots 40
    Length, m 20,8
    Brand Rybinsk shipyard

    Description

    At the Army-2020 International Military and Technical Forum, the Kalashnikov Group presented the Haska-10 flexible-skeg civilian hovercraft with a 10-tonne payload. The vessel was built by Rybinsk Shipyard LLC, a subsidiary of the Kalashnikov Group.

    The cargo/passenger ferry is intended for all-year-round transportation in the shallow waters of the Northern seas and hard-to-reach areas of the Far North.

    Flexible skegs allow to increase efficiency and controllability in comparison with other hovercrafts, while maintaining amphibiousness, seaworthiness and navigability.

    The Haska-10 is 20.8 meters long, 12.5 meters wide, and 7.4 meters tall. Its total displacement is 45 tonnes. The hovercraft is equipped with two engines, each with a top power of 1,500 hp. It has a top speed of 40 knots, with a range of 400 miles.

    Source: https://en.kalashnikovgroup.ru/catalog/sudostroenie/rybinskaya-verf/proekty/katera-spetsialnogo-naznacheniya1/khaska-10

    Regarding the helicopter training ship mentioned above it seems it is a one off and is fitted with roll control equipment to enable it to simulate rough weather on a flat sea for training pilots in difficult conditions without operating in storms or high seas.



    It is interesting it mentions a few helicopters and then says it can also be used to train other helicopters... that might include drone helicopters and of course a naval Ka-226 model, but hopefully it will include new types being developed too.

    Hole likes this post


    Sponsored content


    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 25 Empty Re: Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Mon May 06, 2024 3:03 pm