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    Libyan Crisis

    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:40 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:All US military personnel evacuated Libya, while the local leadership fled to Tunisia, so IMO there will be no massive air support against Haftar forces. Trump won't intervene there as he wants to leave Syria & Afghanistan.
    Let France & UK reap what they sow!

    Of course there won't be any attack on Haftar, he is there to clear out the government that is full of Islamists.  They had there chance to unify the tribes and they failed.  The only things that unify an Islamic nation is a dictator that puts them under boot and heel.  The greatest mistake of France was thinking that they could ever be a democracy.

    Lol. Sarkozy destroyed Lybia because he made some dark business with Gadhaffi. He gives as much fuck about lybian democracy as Bush gave for Irak democracy. Sarkozy is more a mafia guy than a president. He only loves money.
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:44 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:The only things that unify an Islamic nation is a dictator that puts them under boot and heel.  The greatest mistake of France was thinking that they could ever be a democracy.

    this is the tragic reality for these nations. And whenever a dictator was toppled he was replaced by another dictator/autocratic leader
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    Post  George1 on Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:47 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:All US military personnel evacuated Libya, while the local leadership fled to Tunisia, so IMO there will be no massive air support against Haftar forces. Trump won't intervene there as he wants to leave Syria & Afghanistan.
    Let France & UK reap what they sow!

    Of course there won't be any attack on Haftar, he is there to clear out the government that is full of Islamists.  They had there chance to unify the tribes and they failed.  The only things that unify an Islamic nation is a dictator that puts them under boot and heel.  The greatest mistake of France was thinking that they could ever be a democracy.

    Lol. Sarkozy destroyed Lybia because he made some dark business with Gadhaffi. He gives as much fuck about lybian democracy as Bush gave for Irak democracy. Sarkozy is more a mafia guy than a president. He only loves money.

    Sarkozy wasnt the only one however. Tony Blair and silvio berlusconi also had dealings with Qaddafi thats why they dint get a position against him in 2011. And if you remember Blair had publicly called him "my friend"
    Sarkozy bombed Libya because he was embarrassed when Qaddafi revealed that he gave money for his presidential campaign
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:52 pm

    Sarkozy was the leader of the agression. The others had to follow since stupid media were reporting " the truth" to stupid western poeple that believes the same lies aagain and again.
    Vladimir79
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:59 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Lol. Sarkozy destroyed Lybia because he made some dark business with Gadhaffi. He gives as much fuck about lybian democracy as Bush gave for Irak democracy. Sarkozy is more a mafia guy than a president. He only loves money.

    It is actually in the national interests of France to have a stable N. Africa so all of those boat people will stop landing on their shores.  When the Colonel was ready to slaughter thousands of people of Benghazi it would have created so many boat people Sarkozy was like hell no, this guy has to go.  In so doing he managed to throw out all of the Chinese colonisation interests in the country and secure the contracts for Total's oil exploitation.  The goal was to get a government stable enough to buy their weapons but it still hasn't happened yet.  Haftar is that government.
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:03 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    Lol. Sarkozy destroyed Lybia because he made some dark business with Gadhaffi. He gives as much fuck about lybian democracy as Bush gave for Irak democracy. Sarkozy is more a mafia guy than a president. He only loves money.

    It is actually in the national interests of France to have a stable N. Africa so all of those boat people will stop landing on their shores.  When the Colonel was ready to slaughter thousands of people of Benghazi it would have created so many boat people Sarkozy was like hell no, this guy has to go.  In so doing he managed to throw out all of the Chinese colonisation interests in the country and secure the contracts for Total's oil exploitation.  The goal was to get a government stable enough to buy their weapons but it still hasn't happened yet.  Haftar is that government.

    So Haftar has the backing of France?
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:11 pm

    France may be just sitting on the fence; Haftar has the backing of Russia.
    Vladimir79
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:30 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:France may be just sitting on the fence; Haftar has the backing of Russia.

    Russia definitely does NOT back Haftar. He is a French and Arab pawn.

    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20190406-russia-disowns-libyas-general-haftar/
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:44 pm

    It is actually in the national interests of France to have a stable N. Africa so all of those boat people will stop landing on their shores.  When the Colonel was ready to slaughter thousands of people of Benghazi it would have created so many boat people Sarkozy was like hell no, this guy has to go.  In so doing he managed to throw out all of the Chinese colonisation interests in the country and secure the contracts for Total's oil exploitation.  The goal was to get a government stable enough to buy their weapons but it still hasn't happened yet.  Haftar is that government.

    Sarkozy doesn't care about North africa. The colonel used that threat very often against europeans. The war only made it real. The guys from Benghazi and the black africans are free to go on boats since he is dead.

    The war was not in european interest. EU is beeaking against refugees if you haven't noticed. Italy is goig crazy because of that war's consequencies. French are hated by italians because of that.

    Russia with that war won Italy as a support. Better than wining lybia and its not so huge oil reserves which is still in chaos.

    Chinese can just impose taxes on europeans to get back that money. They produce everything that we buy in the west. And they are slowly moving their real pawns which are not some cheap dictators that can change their mind if payed enough.

    Le Pen and the far right are also now the first political party here as she was on top at the first round of elections. Next elections she will be even more because Macron is a british made banker who destroys poor poeple.

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:France may be just sitting on the fence; Haftar has the backing of Russia.

    Russia definitely does NOT back Haftar.  He is a French and Arab pawn.  

    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20190406-russia-disowns-libyas-general-haftar/

    They also welcomed him on Kuzntsov.


    Maybe Russia will start an operation to protect the lybian gov against a crazy guy. So that they get a naval and air base and put a pawn themself. US also don't like him. Could be a race to who destroy him first.


    Last edited by Isos on Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:49 pm

    Read the article Vlad posted. They never disowned him. They quote peskov (Mr.Idontknow) saying they don't have a dog in this. It's laughable that they made an entire article from nothing that doesn't actually say anything.
    medo
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    Post  medo on Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:01 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:France may be just sitting on the fence; Haftar has the backing of Russia.

    Russia definitely does NOT back Haftar.  He is a French and Arab pawn.  

    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20190406-russia-disowns-libyas-general-haftar/

    Are you sure?

    https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/russia-blocks-un-libya-statement-singling-out-haftar-s-forces--11421326


    UNITED NATIONS: Russia on Sunday (Apr 7) blocked a UN Security Council statement that would have called on forces loyal to Libyan commander Khalifa Haftar to halt their advance on Tripoli, diplomats said.

    Moscow insisted that the formal statement urge all Libyan forces to stop fighting, but the proposed change was opposed by the United States, council diplomats said.

    Russia support marshal Haftar in UNSC with veto. France didn't give veto to UNSC resolution against Haftar.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:04 pm

    Russia can lie to the West just like the West been lying to Russia all the time.
    Why admit their backing & provoke the West to help those still in Tripoli?
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:23 am

    this is the tragic reality for these nations. And whenever a dictator was toppled he was replaced by another dictator/autocratic leader

    Yeah, but fluffy bunnies that think peace and democracy comes from cuddly happy people are just as deluded... not all dictators are bad, just like not all democracies are good.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:40 am

    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:15 am

    I wouldn't write off Haftar as a total stooge than I would Putin circa 1998.    That the US is starting to issue warnings and demands
    to him is a good sign he is playing the precious west.  

    But even if he is not a real sock puppet, he will have to play nice with the west since it can still attack Libya by going around the
    UN.   NATO can always whip its sheeple citizenry into a frenzy with 2 minutes' hate propaganda.
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:34 am

    The airport was recaptured awhile ago, That said.

    Haftar needs to win fast if he wants to do this, he cannot afford a prolonged fight.

    this is why he launched a sudden attack he is trying for a lightning strategy.

    Even if he can breach near Tripoli he left much of his flanks open, this is easy to exploit.

    We will see how it goes but if he doesn't win soon, he loses.

    verkhoturye51
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    Post  verkhoturye51 on Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:57 am

    And now GNA moves its Grad launcers to front near Misrata, too.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:35 pm

    https://sputniknews.com/world/201904091073945981-libya-france-antonio-tajani/

    Some fresh news for Vladimir79. Just like I said EU is pissed off by Grance's actions in Lybia.
    Vladimir79
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:17 pm

    Isos wrote:https://sputniknews.com/world/201904091073945981-libya-france-antonio-tajani/

    Some fresh news for Vladimir79. Just like I said EU is pissed off by Grance's actions in Lybia.

    Italy is pissed off, France is behind the whole thing. They even have their special forces embedded with Haftar's forces.
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:33 pm

    Haftar Army Aircraft Hits Positions South of Tripoli - Reports
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:41 pm

    French President, Libyan Prime Minister Discuss Tripoli Offensive

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    CAIRO (Sputnik) - French President Emmanuel Macron and Prime Minister Fayez Sarraj of Libya’s UN-backed Government of National Accord held a phone call on Monday to discuss the offensive on Tripoli.

    The Libyan National Army of Marshal Khalifa Haftar last Thursday marched on the national capital with the stated goal of wrestling it from terrorists. The administration in Tripoli announced a counteroffensive on Sunday, dubbed Volcano of Rage, to repel the National Army.

    The French president "harshly criticized the aggression against the capital, which puts civilians at risk", the Tripoli-based government said in a statement. Sarraj promised to Macron he would "stand up to this aggression", adding Haftar "has only one option which is to immediately stop… and go back to where he came from".

    On Sunday, the United Nations Support Mission in Libya (UNSMIL) demanded from the conflicting sides to organize a two-hour humanitarian truce for evacuation of those injured during the LNA operation in Tripoli, but the conflicting sides refused to follow the UN request.

    Libya has been gripped by political turmoil since its leader, Muammar Gaddafi, was deposed and killed in 2011.

    The country is currently split between two rival administrations, with an elected parliament governing the east and the government of Prime Minister Sarraj ruling the west from Tripoli.

    https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201904091073939851-france-libya-tripoli-offensive-talks/
    Vladimir79
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:51 pm

    How France Is Making Libya Worse
    Macron Is Strengthening Haftar


    RISE OF THE FRENCH HAWKS

    Macron’s diplomatic initiative, whose tone and format favored Haftar, is consistent with France’s previous actions in Libya over recent years. Since early 2015, France has assisted Haftar’s coalition by deploying advisers, clandestine operatives, and special forces to eastern Libya while offering little to the GNA. In February, Haftar told a French newspaper that France supports his government “morally and from a security point of view.” (France publicly acknowledged this military support in July 2016, after three French special-forces soldiers were killed in a helicopter crash near Benghazi.)

    https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/france/2017-09-21/how-france-making-libya-worse
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:27 pm

    My conclusion is that France is backing Haftar for influence and economic interests and Russia just for defeating the islamists
    Vladimir79
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:35 pm

    George1 wrote:My conclusion is that France is backing Haftar for influence and economic interests and Russia just for defeating the islamists

    France built and trained the LNA funded by Gulf money. Russia is just a spectator to this spectacle.
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    Post  MiamiMachineShop on Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:42 pm



    So I wonder what is being transported out of there? I guess we acknowledge that there isn't anything we can do about this. No real sign of a policy... Very disturbing to see USA in such a skittish mode, but alas such is the end of the American Century !

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