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    South Stream pipeline: News

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    Re: South Stream pipeline: News

    Post  Regular on Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:06 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    In my country, there currently isn't any alternatives. You either buy from gazprom (for whatever price they wish), or freeze to death. You think, this is right?

    The only way to heat your house is gas? You clearly need to develop alternatives like electric or a log burner. A guy in NZ has developed a wood pellet burner that uses woodchip waste wood to fuel it. Unlike a wood burner it controls the oxygen in the burning process and is much more efficient and the fuel is cheap and a by product from sawmills.

    Or is it Gazproms fault the people of your country got lazy and just relied on cheap power sources...


    Garry, problem is that most people in eastern block live in flats and to heat them You can only use gas. My country is trying to renovate them even forcing people to pay for it.
    After renovation that consisted of proper insulation, new balconies, better boilers, new windows, radiators and etc. heating price went down drastically. Price of flats went up too. It's the way to go if people themselves can't cooperate and think about future.

    This is what You can do from Soviet block flats. Lol at Pobeda car.

    image upload no compression



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    how do i print screen


    Wood pellet burner works OK for house, but not for large blocks. I blew my wood pellet burner in our dacha as I used just wood waste in non pelletised form as it was crushed. It would be nightmare to deliver it and watch for quality of pellets while gas just flows in trough pipes. 
    It's up to Urban peasants to pay for gas, "smart" people with money don't live in the city anyways so politicians are not affected by high bills.

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    Gas wars against Gazprom

    Post  zino on Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:23 pm

    Hope it will be appreciated. I think it's better to unite in the same thread the events that will happen. If not please delete.
    Big things is espected shortly:

    -The South Stream renegotiation saga
    -The EU lawsuit for the lithuanian price (10 and more billions $ in the game)
    -The lithuanian lawsuit (same reason, 1.5 bn)
    -And after the Moscow deal, the destiny of the ukrainian GTS
    -AOB

    Let's begin with a perhaps expected but funny thing:
    http://rbth.co.uk/news/2013/12/19/gas_deal_signed_with_tymoshenko-led_goverment_was_economically_justified_32731.html

    So,according to Putin, the gas contract of the 2009 was in line with the other european customers. Thus the EU is right when is claiming the Tymoshenko case is politically motivated. Oh well!

    GarryB
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    Re: South Stream pipeline: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:03 am

    Innovate... solar power... electric heatpumps... there are plenty of alternatives... your people are just addicted to the cheap options... gas.

    Each flat could create an organic compost for waste, both human and vegetable/food waste and generate methane from the result...

    Insulation is another avenue to reduce costs.


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    Re: South Stream pipeline: News

    Post  etaepsilonk on Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:19 pm

    GarryB wrote:Innovate... solar power... electric heatpumps... there are plenty of alternatives... your people are just addicted to the cheap options... gas.

    Each flat could create an organic compost for waste, both human and vegetable/food waste and generate methane from the result...

    Insulation is another avenue to reduce costs.

    The owners of private houses are already doing that en masse. About the block apartments, due to some administration companies, you must pay hefty fine if you want to disconnect from centralized gas network  Neutral And all those alternatives, except some "down the throat" approaches (like renovations), are meeting resistance. You see, the reason for that is that huge gas prices are not only feeding Russian oligarchs, but ours as well  Neutral 

    And besides, let's not forget schools, hospitals, elderly homes. For them, the autonomous heating is much more difficult to implement.

    Also, you have suggested electric heating.
    Well, electricity in our country is pretty expensive as well. Approximately, 0,2125 USD/kWh.

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    Re: South Stream pipeline: News

    Post  Regular on Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:06 pm

    Garry, it won't work for flats. It works for small communal houses with 3 flats, not with 240. 
    And individual heating doesn't work too. How much investment You have to do to come up with workable solution to warm big building with more than 400 people just on compost waste. I've seen such compost burners in some factories and they are not used extensively and only supplement.  
    Most new houses are using eco alternatives already as mentioned by etaepsilonk. Government subsidizes eco houses too, but only FEW people can afford to build or buy them. That's only reason I'm working abroad too.

    Even small economy simply can't sustain itself on eco solutions. Gas is perfect in every way. Transportation, storage, effectiveness. I see no option for it. 

    Best solution would be to remain reliant on gas. It would be wise to fix relationships with Russia especially when there is no alternative as I doubt that Gazprom will loose any sleep with these cases against them. LNG tanker deliveries, shale gas extraction and Russian gas would be perfect mix. But it's second year and no action. But sure let's blame Russia Very Happy

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    Re: South Stream pipeline: News

    Post  etaepsilonk on Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:52 pm

    Regular wrote: But it's second year and no action. But sure let's blame Russia Very Happy

    We're building LNG terminal you know. And I wouldn't count on "relationship" to decrease the gas price. In my view, it's a purely commercial, rather than political matter.

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    Re: South Stream pipeline: News

    Post  Regular on Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:11 pm

    Haha, didn't know You are Lithuanian too.
    Yeah terminal is being built but I wouldn't be betting my balls solely on it. I'm pessimistic, maybe in the future it will be good for us, I don't know.
    End user will be the one paying for the terminal. Well maybe it's ok, but then what about SDG imposing it's draconian terms. I have feeling that they will milk cash out of us till we drop. It's local Gazprom only with more power. No one cares about user.
    Government did ef all in whole year to secure energetical independence. Not the idiotic one, but economically profitable.

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    Re: South Stream pipeline: News

    Post  zg18 on Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:35 pm

    I like Americans, on the other hand supporting Europeans against Russian energy companies and on the other hand....  

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/20/rosneft-morganstanley-commodities-idUSL6N0JZ3WB20131220

     Laughing 

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    Re: South Stream pipeline: News

    Post  etaepsilonk on Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:47 pm

    Regular wrote:Haha, didn't know You are Lithuanian too.
    Yeah terminal is being built but I wouldn't be betting my balls solely on it. I'm pessimistic, maybe in the future it will be good for us, I don't know.
    End user will be the one paying for the terminal. Well maybe it's ok, but then what about SDG imposing it's draconian terms. I have feeling that they will milk cash out of us till we drop. It's local Gazprom only with more power. No one cares about user.
    Government did ef all in whole year to secure energetical independence. Not the idiotic one, but economically profitable.


    While Terminal may, of course, fell victim to corruption and monopolical greed, but probablity of that is, actually, not too likely, compared to some earlier "adventures" at least. You see, it is put under magnifying glass, because, unlike in many other projects, quite a few of politicians' a**es depend on it's success. And if you ask me:
    Svarbu tik neprileisti tokiu stribu irstvu, kaip dujotekana, ir, galima sakyti, puse darbo jau padaryta  Very Happy 

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    Re: South Stream pipeline: News

    Post  flamming_python on Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:34 pm

    I've been following Lithuania's development myself

    Thing is, the LNG terminal may well be built (its the NPP venture with the Japanese that's a lot more under question IMO), but the gas they will receive won't be cheap; I mean LNG in large tankers from America, as opposed to being piped from nearby Russia.

    Shale gas would be environmentally dangerous for a small country like Lithuania. What if its only found in areas where people live? (and people live practically everywhere on the territory of Lithuania) It can pollute water sources and loads of other things.

    Basically the Lithuanian government is desperate to keep up its ideological opposition towards Russia and to try and cause the collapse of its large neighbor and the integration processes it's running by any means (and naturally failing miserably, as the EU refuses to unite against Russia). To keep this up, it has to bear the brunt of high gas prices, oil supply issues, and other forms of retaliation by Russia. And naturaly its the Lithuanian population that pays for all this, and the government is going to start doing more and more; producing shale regardless of residents wishes (and labelling environmentalist opponents as Gazprom agents) - because it needs to keep up the fight against Russia.

    The newest Russian move is more incidental in its harm to the Baltic economies. The rapid growth of the Ust-Luga terminal in St. Petersburg. It's trade turnover is growing by dozens of percent each year; at the same time as the Baltic ports of Tallinn, Riga and Klaipeida are all registering a significant decline. It's no coincidence; Ust-Luga due to protectionist Russian economic policy - is fast taking over for all the Russian trade that used to come through the Baltic ports.
    Belarus also relies on the Baltic ports, but very recently Lukashenko has signed an agreement to reroute Belarussian trade through Ust-Luga instead.

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    Re: South Stream pipeline: News

    Post  GarryB on Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:44 am

    So what you are saying is that as expensive as Russian gas is, it is still the cheapest most sensible option... so WTF are you complaining about?

    It is cheap but not cheap enough?

    You want mates rates from a country your country blames and denounces every chance it gets...

    I am sure you have heard the saying "don't bite the hand that feeds (you)..."


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    Re: South Stream pipeline: News

    Post  Regular on Sun Dec 22, 2013 4:40 pm

    We are complaining about unfair pricing, contract and competition breaches. How valid is this claim not for me to judge, we will see the outcome soon. EU is suing for bit different reasons too.
    For us It was last straw before that negotiations were going on. Only effective leverage we have. And not long ago there was even talks about reclaiming the claim if we come to an agreement. EU issues can be solved with silent agreement as well.
    Gazprom aren't stupid, they know they are important player in Europe.

    Fact is that national gas supplier Lietuvos dujos was acting on the interest of Gazprom and prices were fixed. Third package would help us to actually put someone more transparent in control and would give us more choices when it comes to suppliers. How third package will be implemented is still a mystery, it's not just hostile takeover.
    We will see what will happen, could end pretty shitty even without Gazprom monopoly.

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    Re: South Stream pipeline: News

    Post  etaepsilonk on Sun Dec 22, 2013 7:57 pm

    flamming_python wrote:I've been following Lithuania's development myself

    Thing is, the LNG terminal may well be built (its the NPP venture with the Japanese that's a lot more under question IMO), but the gas they will receive won't be cheap; I mean LNG in large tankers from America, as opposed to being piped from nearby Russia.

    Shale gas would be environmentally dangerous for a small country like Lithuania. What if its only found in areas where people live? (and people live practically everywhere on the territory of Lithuania) It can pollute water sources and loads of other things.

    Basically the Lithuanian government is desperate to keep up its ideological opposition towards Russia and to try and cause the collapse of its large neighbor and the integration processes it's running by any means (and naturally failing miserably, as the EU refuses to unite against Russia). To keep this up, it has to bear the brunt of high gas prices, oil supply issues, and other forms of retaliation by Russia.

    Meth is a hell of a drug.


    And flamming, if you want so much to search for conspiracies, maybe you should primarily search within your country?

    http://www.contentiouspoliticsrussia.com/2012/12/the-kremlin-strikes-back-anatomy-of_1.html


    Last edited by etaepsilonk on Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:31 pm; edited 2 times in total

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    Re: South Stream pipeline: News

    Post  collegeboy16 on Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:02 pm

    etaepsilonk wrote:
    Meth is a hell of a drug.
    more like krokodil  clown 

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    Re: South Stream pipeline: News

    Post  zino on Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:31 pm

    Russia lodges energy adjustments suit with EU

    http://en.itar-tass.com/economy/712662

    Not related to the third energy package but the first bullets start whizzing.

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    Re: South Stream pipeline: News

    Post  etaepsilonk on Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:31 pm

    zino wrote:Russia lodges energy adjustments suit with EU

    http://en.itar-tass.com/economy/712662

    Not related to the third energy package but the first bullets start whizzing.


    EU hipocrisy at its finest  Rolling Eyes

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    Re: South Stream pipeline: News

    Post  zino on Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:51 am

    A very uncommon but very interesting article by Interfax: not only data and facts but also educated opinion.
    http://www.interfax.com/newsinf.asp?pg=2&id=470971

    So 2013 was a very good year for Gazprom, but with some "problems".

    IMHO the more intriguing fact depicted: the qatari LNG ships avoid Europe like plague due to far more revenue in Asia Pacific region. So sweet by them!
    Anyway Russia should speed up the development of LNG structures in the Far East to join the party!

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    Re: South Stream pipeline: News

    Post  zino on Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:42 pm

    Moscow expects explanations from Brussels regarding talks on South Stream - Chizhov
    http://www.interfax.com/newsinf.asp?pg=8&id=472282

    "The third energy package is not the best invention of the EU. We are watching major energy projects in the EU closely and see that many are based on exceptions of this legislative package. It is no wonder. The peculiarity of major transborder energy projects is that they can not be based solely on the domestic law of the EU.........."

    Personally, I don't have much hope in those talks.

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    Re: South Stream pipeline: News

    Post  Viktor on Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:33 am

    Nice !

    EU gives Gazprom preliminary 'OK' for South Stream gas pipeline

    Russia and the EU have agreed on further cooperation on a route that will satisfy Europe with 15% of natural gas needs by 2018

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    Re: South Stream pipeline: News

    Post  zino on Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:47 am

    Viktor wrote:Nice !

    EU gives Gazprom preliminary 'OK' for South Stream gas pipeline

    Russia and the EU have agreed on further cooperation on a route that will satisfy Europe with 15% of natural gas needs by 2018

    Thank's for the news. Only a first step but an important one!
    The key factor probably was "A delegation of Eastern Europeans requested the European Commission to help broker a deal with Russia on their behalf". However, personality disorder of the European Commission in regards to Russia prevents to be overly optimistic about the final deal.

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    Re: South Stream pipeline: News

    Post  Viktor on Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:40 am

    Yes and there are other strong EU companiesinvolved in project certainly played their part.

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    Re: South Stream pipeline: News

    Post  Viktor on Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:37 pm

    Everything is going as planed - apparently

    Russia-EU agreements on South Stream not revised or cancelled

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    Re: South Stream pipeline: News

    Post  zino on Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:53 am

    "Saipem Rises After Signing South Stream Pipe Accord With Gazprom"
    http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-03-14/saipem-rises-after-signing-south-stream-pipe-accord-with-gazprom

    hope this will instill some wisdom in my brand new government.

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    Re: South Stream pipeline: News

    Post  Viktor on Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:10 pm

    Everyone wants gas  Very Happy 

    France believes that the "South Stream" contributes to the security of gas supply

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    Re: South Stream pipeline: News

    Post  zino on Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:49 pm

    Italy's government appointed Claudio Descalzi as new CEO of ENI.
    Perhaps a good news, because the guy is considered a "technician" and not a political nominee. He was the vice of the previous CEO Paolo Scaroni, which was one the key of South Stream deal.

    However "South Stream is not EU priority"
    http://en.itar-tass.com/world/728755

    There will be a long battle about that.

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