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    Soviet era aircrafts used in some countries:

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    Giulio

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    Re: Soviet era aircrafts used in some countries:

    Post  Giulio on Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:21 pm

    But for weapons and assistance how they did?
    The Polish Mig-29 have gone to NATO missiles?
    The Mig-29 seems to me a very widespread program at the times of the USSR. May be like the F-16 for the NATO. In the end of the USSR, also the assistance ended?
    What about Cuban Mig-29s, North Korea, Ukraine, etc ....? Are they still in combat conditions?
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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Soviet era aircrafts used in some countries:

    Post  Cyberspec on Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:41 am

    Giulio wrote: In the end of the USSR, also the assistance ended?

    What about Cuban Mig-29s, North Korea, Ukraine, etc ....? Are they still in combat conditions?

    Depends on the country.

    Some Eastern European countries have kept their MiG-29's operational, others have not....N. Korean and Cuban ones are operational judging by recent footage/pics
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    mack8

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    The Mig-29 after the USSR end

    Post  mack8 on Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:00 pm

    Romanian ones were prematurely retired in 2003 and left to rot (literally) due imo to political reasons, an enormous waste of resources. Each only had a few hundred hours on the clock, with just a moderate amount of investment they could have operated them well into the 2020s, certainly much cheaper than this whole rip-off deal for a dozen F-16s, OLDER than those MiGs, for 700 million! Less than a third of that money could have upgraded the existing ones to Lancer-like levels and arm them with things like Derby, but also they could have bought another squadron from say Hungary for a modicum price when they retired theirs and upgraded to replace the last Lancers, just like Poland still operates their MiG-29 despite also having brand new F-16, so Romania could have not worried much about new fighters until the 2020s, but the traitorous politicians were only thinking to serve their US masters...(they always wanted F-16 to please the US, no other more suitable aircraft like Gripen and no offsets were even considered).

    nastle77

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    Mig-27 and Su-17 in the export market

    Post  nastle77 on Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:13 pm

    Mig-27 and Su-17 in the export market



    End of the cold war a lot of surplus su-17/mig-27 were available with relatively new airframes esp since the VVS used su-24/25 as standard equipment
    Would they have been good in the export market ? esp to nations already familiar with using soviet equipment or those embargoed by the US/NATO
    they were cheap, plenty of spares, relatively hi tech and probably a lot of ex-WP mercenaries ready to fly and maintain them
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    George1

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    Re: Soviet era aircrafts used in some countries:

    Post  George1 on Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:45 am

    nastle77 wrote:Mig-27 and Su-17 in the export market



    End of the cold war a lot of surplus su-17/mig-27 were available with relatively new airframes esp since the VVS used su-24/25 as standard equipment
    Would they have been good in the export market ? esp to nations already familiar with using soviet equipment or those embargoed by the US/NATO
    they were cheap, plenty of spares, relatively hi tech and probably a lot of ex-WP mercenaries ready to fly and maintain them

    MiG-27 even in USSR era were supplied only to India. Su-17 i dont think that even african countries would use it today.


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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Soviet era aircrafts used in some countries:

    Post  d_taddei2 on Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:27 pm

    George1 wrote:
    nastle77 wrote:Mig-27 and Su-17 in the export market



    End of the cold war a lot of surplus su-17/mig-27 were available with relatively new airframes esp since the VVS used su-24/25 as standard equipment
    Would they have been good in the export market ? esp to nations already familiar with using soviet equipment or those embargoed by the US/NATO
    they were cheap, plenty of spares, relatively hi tech and probably a lot of ex-WP mercenaries ready to fly and maintain them

    MiG-27 even in USSR era were supplied only to India. Su-17 i dont think that even african countries would use it today.


    i think if there were cheap enough and had some minor upgrades, then they are still useful and would be ideal for the threats faced by african countries it could also be used for COIN duties, but the frames would have to be decent, and like i said they would have to be cheap enough.

    when i was in the forces, an infantryman would welcome any air support, even though requests are made for air support by infantry on the ground they don't always get it, so even getting a Mig 15, 17, 19 or even a L-39 for support would be welcome, all of these aircraft although old and most retired still could be used for COIN or ground attack. But of course thats providing they dont need a lot of money spent on them, so a lot of the older aircraft is only worth using if you already have it rather purchasing the aircraft. There is of course cheaper aircraft to be bought which are good aircraft such as SU-24M2 which Russia would be looking to off load some and you also have Mig 29M2/SMT which are cheap and in my personal opinion are great aircraft for the money.

    The Syrian Air force (rumoured) recently received over hauled Su-22 from Iran, and i can guarantee you that the Syrian air force are very grateful for this. When your facing what the Syrian armed forces are facing any aircraft or support however high or low tech it is would be welcomed with open arms.


    Last edited by d_taddei2 on Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:14 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : additional info)
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    d_taddei2

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    Post  d_taddei2 on Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:33 pm

    mack8 wrote:Romanian ones were prematurely retired in 2003 and left to rot (literally) due imo to political reasons, an enormous waste of resources. Each only had a few hundred hours on the clock, with just a moderate amount of investment they could have operated them well into the 2020s, certainly much cheaper than this whole rip-off deal for a dozen F-16s, OLDER than those MiGs, for 700 million! Less than a third of that money could have upgraded the existing ones to Lancer-like levels and arm them with things like Derby, but also they could have bought another squadron from say Hungary for a modicum price when they retired theirs and upgraded to replace the last Lancers, just like Poland still operates their MiG-29 despite also having brand new F-16, so Romania could have not worried much about new fighters until the  2020s, but the traitorous politicians were only thinking to serve their US masters...(they always wanted F-16 to please the US, no other more suitable aircraft like Gripen and no offsets were even considered).


    couldnt have put it better myself, Mig 21 in upgraded form are capable aircraft and especially if you at Romania's threat in this area. Most upgraded Mig-21 are still reasonable aircraft and like you said would haven't been needed to be replaced in 2020, Romania would have then got its moneys worth.

    Mig 29's are decent aircraft and why on earth Romania decided to scrap them is beyond me. The maintenance cost for the F-16 i'd imagine are most expensive than Mig 29's and they would get shafted by USA for costs. A lot of these countries who have decided to go down the route of buying USA stuff to please them will get a big shock in years to come when the only option for them is buy the horrendously expensive F-35 lets see these countries afford to run them, i wouldnt be surprised they end up returning to Russia for fighter aircraft or maybe even China.
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    Walther von Oldenburg

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    MiG-21s and what their performance

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:12 pm

    Need help again.

    I am looking for info on what is the newest Russian modernization of MiG-21s and what their performance is. Since a lot of countries still have them, then maybe modernizing them and using in ground attack role is still feasible?

    Svyatoslavich

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    Re: Soviet era aircrafts used in some countries:

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:00 am

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Need help again.

    I am looking for info on what is the newest Russian modernization of MiG-21s and what their performance is. Since a lot of countries still have them, then maybe modernizing them and using in ground attack role is still feasible?
    The only modernization ever performed by the Russians to the MiG-21 was the Bison for the Indian air force. It receives a new HUD, MFDs, PESA radar (Kopyo) and RWR/EW systems. It can launch BVR missiles (R-77), so it seems to be a quite capable and decent light fighter. The only other modernized version that entered service is the Romanian Lancer, but this was done by Israel.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Soviet era aircrafts used in some countries:

    Post  GarryB on Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:20 am

    the MiG-21 was always a small relatively cheap mach 2 interceptor.

    There are lot of ways of improving this or that performance, but at the end of the day if you want a ground attack aircraft go for the Su-25... it is much better suited to the role and with a few modifications can perform other roles too.

    The newest MiG-21 upgrade from Russia that I have any info on is the MiG-21-93 which added the Kopyo radar and upgrades to allow the carriage and use of R-77 and R-73 AAMs as well as R-27 and R-60M. It can also carry two Kh-25MP missiles or KAB-500Kr bombs or standard 100kg, 250kg and 500kg bombs.

    Actually with 250kg and 500kg satellite guided bombs and R-77 and R-73 missiles you would have a potent little fighterbomber. Add a Sapsan targeting pod and it would be a cheap simple fighterbomber.


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    Isos

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    Why Yakovlev don't sell its Yak-44 to India and China?

    Post  Isos on Sat May 21, 2016 1:29 pm

    BTW off topic but, why Yakovlev don't sell its Yak-44 to India and China? They can be used on carriers whitout catapult and both of these countries need them. They will probably get carrier based Awacs one day so Yakovlev should sell them 2 or 3 for each of their carriers before someone else does. With the new technologies they could program them to work with the futur S-400 planned for China and India.

    India 3 Aircraft carrier, China 3 too, Russia 1 : 6x3 +1=19 Yak 44. Could be a very big contract dunno
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    GarryB

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    Re: Soviet era aircrafts used in some countries:

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 22, 2016 6:50 am

    I very much doubt any version of the Yak-44 could take off any type of carrier without a catapult or other serious assistance... even if it had a tilt wing design... which AFAIK it does not.

    ATM the only AWACS type aircraft for Russian carriers is the Ka-31 with a very flat antenna array under its belly that can be deployed in flight for 360 degree monitoring of the airspace around the helo.


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    Singular_trafo

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    Re: Soviet era aircrafts used in some countries:

    Post  Singular_trafo on Sun May 22, 2016 9:44 am

    GarryB wrote:I very much doubt any version of the Yak-44 could take off any type of carrier without a catapult or other serious assistance... even if it had a tilt wing design... which AFAIK it does not.

    ATM the only AWACS type aircraft for Russian carriers is the Ka-31 with a very flat antenna array under its belly that can be deployed in flight for 360 degree monitoring of the airspace around the helo.

    Quick calculation for the distance vs. radar elevation.
    49m radar height->25km range
    71m radar height ->30km range
    785m height->100km range
    4908m->250km range
    9618m->350km
    28253m->600km

    A ka-31 can cover quater of the area ,and has 2.5 hours endurance compared to the 6 hours of Hawkeye .

    So, a shipborn air deffense system can protect 50km diameter area without aircraft, with a helicopter 300km diameter, with a fixrd wing aircraft 700km dimater area.


    Any SAM with greater than 30km range require same airborne radar to function.
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    Isos

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    Re: Soviet era aircrafts used in some countries:

    Post  Isos on Sun May 22, 2016 12:39 pm

    Singular_trafo wrote:
    GarryB wrote:I very much doubt any version of the Yak-44 could take off any type of carrier without a catapult or other serious assistance... even if it had a tilt wing design... which AFAIK it does not.

    ATM the only AWACS type aircraft for Russian carriers is the Ka-31 with a very flat antenna array under its belly that can be deployed in flight for 360 degree monitoring of the airspace around the helo.

    Quick calculation for the distance vs. radar elevation.
    49m radar height->25km range
    71m radar height ->30km range
    785m height->100km range
    4908m->250km range
    9618m->350km
    28253m->600km

    A ka-31 can cover quater of the area ,and has 2.5 hours endurance compared to the 6 hours of Hawkeye .

    So, a shipborn air deffense system can protect 50km diameter area without aircraft, with a helicopter 300km diameter, with a fixrd wing aircraft 700km dimater area.


    Any SAM with  greater than 30km range require same airborne radar to function.

    Well it depends on the altitude of the target too.

    I remember I've read that it could take off without catapult.
    Soviets used some accelerator on their aircraft, i've seen a video of a mig 21 taking off like a missile with that technology. So it's not realy a problem. Pretty bad that they don't put money on the development of the Yak-44.

    Singular_trafo

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    Re: Soviet era aircrafts used in some countries:

    Post  Singular_trafo on Sun May 22, 2016 2:05 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Singular_trafo wrote:
    GarryB wrote:I very much doubt any version of the Yak-44 could take off any type of carrier without a catapult or other serious assistance... even if it had a tilt wing design... which AFAIK it does not.

    ATM the only AWACS type aircraft for Russian carriers is the Ka-31 with a very flat antenna array under its belly that can be deployed in flight for 360 degree monitoring of the airspace around the helo.

    Quick calculation for the distance vs. radar elevation.
    49m radar height->25km range
    71m radar height ->30km range
    785m height->100km range
    4908m->250km range
    9618m->350km
    28253m->600km

    A ka-31 can cover quater of the area ,and has 2.5 hours endurance compared to the 6 hours of Hawkeye .

    So, a shipborn air deffense system can protect 50km diameter area without aircraft, with a helicopter 300km diameter, with a fixrd wing aircraft 700km dimater area.


    Any SAM with  greater than 30km range require same airborne radar to function.

    Well it depends on the altitude of the target too.

    I remember I've read that it could take off without catapult.
    Soviets used some accelerator on their aircraft, i've seen a video of a mig 21 taking off like a missile with that technology. So it's not realy a problem. Pretty bad that they don't put money on the development of the Yak-44.

    Of course yes.

    These are symetrical, so a 49m elevated radar can detect an object with 49m elevation from 50km and so on.


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    Isos

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    That's what I mean

    Post  Isos on Wed May 25, 2016 9:40 pm

    GarryB wrote:You mean rocket assisted takeoff?

    they have mentioned development of EM cats on their new carriers... the only practical purpose for such is to allow heavier aircraft to operate from the carrier like AWACS and tanker aircraft and light transports

    That's what I mean, using rocket assisted takeoff for just Yak-44. They are planning to upgrade Kuznetsov and still use it a long time so it could be a good choice to put an Awacs. Using Ka-31 for that role is not the best option as it simply look around the carrier, no deep penetration near the combat zone. Plus the radar could be more powerfull, flown higher and designed in L band to see F-22/35 300km away.

    max steel wrote:

    But Israelis jammed or decoyed Syrian S-300 successfully.

    I've never heard they have them. They wouldn't be so afraid of Iranian S-300 if they could do so ...
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    GarryB

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    Why Yakovlev don't sell its Yak-44 to India and China?

    Post  GarryB on Thu May 26, 2016 12:58 pm

    That's what I mean, using rocket assisted takeoff for just Yak-44. They are planning to upgrade Kuznetsov and still use it a long time so it could be a good choice to put an Awacs. Using Ka-31 for that role is not the best option as it simply look around the carrier, no deep penetration near the combat zone. Plus the radar could be more powerfull, flown higher and designed in L band to see F-22/35 300km away.

    Don't underestimate the Ka-31, the army are actually buying versions of it for battlefield surveillance too.

    they can fly at up to 5km altitude and have a rather large flat panel radar antenna stowed under its belly that offers a full 360 degree search capacity when deployed.

    they would need to spend some money and develop a new model Yak-44 as the original is ancient and most components would now be obsolete.

    Having said that a small AWACS that could be used to fill gaps for Russia or could be sold to smaller nations with smaller budgets has huge potential...


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    User 1592

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    MIG-21 possible upgrade

    Post  User 1592 on Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:22 pm

    http://www.geocities.co.jp/HeartLand-Icho/3902/jf/mig21_2020_j.html

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