Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Soviet era aircrafts used in some countries:

    Share
    avatar
    Giulio

    Posts : 167
    Points : 190
    Join date : 2013-10-29
    Location : Italy

    Re: Soviet era aircrafts used in some countries:

    Post  Giulio on Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:42 pm

    The withdrawal of the last Mig-25s?
    https://medium.com/war-is-boring/21d12739b5db
    avatar
    TR1

    Posts : 5680
    Points : 5708
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Soviet era aircrafts used in some countries:

    Post  TR1 on Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:22 am

    David Axe is a horrible journalist btw.
    avatar
    Werewolf

    Posts : 5357
    Points : 5588
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: Soviet era aircrafts used in some countries:

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:42 am

    TR1 wrote:David Axe is a horrible journalist btw.

    Horrible is to mild for some of his nonsense articles.

    And congratz to your Level Up.  Very Happy 
    avatar
    TR1

    Posts : 5680
    Points : 5708
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Soviet era aircrafts used in some countries:

    Post  TR1 on Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:36 am

    Ty ty.

    OT, but thinking about the forum- we should have a top banner competition. THe current one, while decent, looks a bit funky in certain places.

    sheytanelkebir

    Posts : 505
    Points : 522
    Join date : 2013-09-16

    Re: Soviet era aircrafts used in some countries:

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:46 pm

    de militarise them and sell them to enthusiasts. setup a service and maintenance company in the US to offer after market service and rent-by-hour service
    avatar
    d_taddei2

    Posts : 964
    Points : 1128
    Join date : 2013-05-11
    Location : Scotland UK

    reply

    Post  d_taddei2 on Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:27 pm

    hi all does anyone know if this david axe report is true or not, i havent read anything of his but it seems people on here dont like him very much? is he anti russian?

    I would like to think that Russia still uses them, seems pretty crazy to get rid of them when u dont have a replacement
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16532
    Points : 17140
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Soviet era aircrafts used in some countries:

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:58 pm

    I would like to think that Russia still uses them, seems pretty crazy to get rid of them when u dont have a replacement

    Who said they don't have a replacement?

    Doesn't Russia have any secret programs anymore?

    the idea that they would withdraw the Mig-25 from service because maintaining its runway was too expensive... now at a time when it is upgrading everything... when Putin himself has said a Russian priority was the Russian North... sounds to me a bit fishy...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    sepheronx

    Posts : 7252
    Points : 7546
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 28
    Location : Canada

    Re: Soviet era aircrafts used in some countries:

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:49 am

    TR1 wrote:Ty ty.

    OT, but thinking about the forum- we should have a top banner competition. THe current one, while decent, looks a bit funky in certain places.

    I agree. I proposed something long ago before I went on a childish rant to Vlad (sorry Vlad) and left. Now that I am a bit older, calmer (works when you are a father) and a bit wiser, I would like to try this again. Although, my photoshop skills are nowhere what they were like before.
    avatar
    d_taddei2

    Posts : 964
    Points : 1128
    Join date : 2013-05-11
    Location : Scotland UK

    reply

    Post  d_taddei2 on Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:27 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    I would like to think that Russia still uses them, seems pretty crazy to get rid of them when u dont have a replacement

    Who said they don't have a replacement?

    Doesn't Russia have any secret programs anymore?

    the idea that they would withdraw the Mig-25 from service because maintaining its runway was too expensive... now at a time when it is upgrading everything... when Putin himself has said a Russian priority was the Russian North... sounds to me a bit fishy...


    yeah thats what i thought seems strange to get rid of something when you dont have a replacement, especially with the upgrading programmes going on.

    I know UCAV using some of the SKAT designs. but this wont be nowhere near the kind of speed the MIG 25 has.

    Would be good to some new aircraft but this is probably unlikely.

    shame as i like the MIG 25 and the legacy it has.
    avatar
    nemrod

    Posts : 809
    Points : 1305
    Join date : 2012-09-11

    Re: Soviet era aircrafts used in some countries:

    Post  nemrod on Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:02 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    But how does the the MIG 25 compare to a modern interceptor role??? can it still be usefull in this role???
    A comptetent pilot, inside an upgraded Mig-25, or Mig-23 could be redoutable. It seems to me a fair choice. After all, do not forget, that France has still 136 Mirage 2000, 19 Mirage F1, vs 87 Rafale. UK air force still has 112 Tornado vs 115 Typhoons. The only country in the world that could afford to get 4++ aircraft is US because of their economy. I said could afford, now, with the budget cuts, in the near future, the US air force, as the Navy must be downgrade.
    During the fight in Lebanon's Bekaa 1982-83, if we switch of the israeli propaganda -that claimed more than 80 syrian aircrafts vs 0 for Israel, it was a simple hoax, as Israel is an experts in this area-, as Vladimir Illyin, the behaviour of the Mig 23 seems to be excellent. I mean the Mig 23 ML of course.

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    I think as far as drones go, they have there uses, but i think the MIG-25 has more advantages than the normal drones out there, faster speed being one. But are drones cheaper to operate/maintain and of course u still have to buy them.

    I think the drone promess was an illusion. The drone could be an excellent complement of the satelite, gathering observations, informations, and sometimes why not, attacking target against poor defended and low skills insurgents. The drone could be an excellent help for Ground infantery.
    However the RQ 170 Sentinell incident -when it was captured by the iranians in december 2001- set a definitive end of the drone' false dream. It prove that the human factor is still vital, and it could not be replaced by any robotics nowadays. If US sent an SR71 instead of the RQ 170, it would be a more success than this humiliation.
    Back to our subject a Mig-23, or Mig 25 could be more effective in order to do strategic reconnaissance, than any drones.



    avatar
    Giulio

    Posts : 167
    Points : 190
    Join date : 2013-10-29
    Location : Italy

    Re: Soviet era aircrafts used in some countries:

    Post  Giulio on Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:14 pm

    Nemrod, the Mig-25 has nothing in common with the planes you mentioned (Mirage, etc ...).
    The Mig-25 is a stratospheric interceptor that flies normally at altitudes unreachable for the other aircrafts except only SR-71 and U-2. This requires a totally different design.

    carrack

    Posts : 0
    Points : 2
    Join date : 2013-12-28

    MiG-25 Business Jet?

    Post  carrack on Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:38 pm

    I don't know how practical it would have been, but it sounds like an awesome way to travel. https://medium.com/war-is-boring/26ad41ba71

    mutantsushi

    Posts : 282
    Points : 304
    Join date : 2013-12-11

    Re: Soviet era aircrafts used in some countries:

    Post  mutantsushi on Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:46 am

    hostile take-over?
    avatar
    Giulio

    Posts : 167
    Points : 190
    Join date : 2013-10-29
    Location : Italy

    The Mig-29 after the USSR end

    Post  Giulio on Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:36 pm

    Hello.
    If possible I'd like to know the destiny of the Mig-29 after the USSR end, above all the Mig-29s in the former Warsaw Pact countries and in countries which fall within the Russian influence in the five continents.
    Why the Su-27 seems to have been more successful?
    What happened to the MiG-29s in the countries of eastern Europe: Germany, Poland, Romania, Moldavia, Ukraine, ex-Jugoslavia .... ?
    Thanks.
    avatar
    Werewolf

    Posts : 5357
    Points : 5588
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: Soviet era aircrafts used in some countries:

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:28 pm

    Germany gave its GDR MiG-29 9.12b fleet away for free, most ended in Poland a few landed in US,UK and few other NATO countries for studies.
    avatar
    Giulio

    Posts : 167
    Points : 190
    Join date : 2013-10-29
    Location : Italy

    Re: Soviet era aircrafts used in some countries:

    Post  Giulio on Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:21 pm

    But for weapons and assistance how they did?
    The Polish Mig-29 have gone to NATO missiles?
    The Mig-29 seems to me a very widespread program at the times of the USSR. May be like the F-16 for the NATO. In the end of the USSR, also the assistance ended?
    What about Cuban Mig-29s, North Korea, Ukraine, etc ....? Are they still in combat conditions?
    avatar
    Cyberspec

    Posts : 1973
    Points : 2138
    Join date : 2011-08-08
    Location : Terra Australis

    Re: Soviet era aircrafts used in some countries:

    Post  Cyberspec on Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:41 am

    Giulio wrote: In the end of the USSR, also the assistance ended?

    What about Cuban Mig-29s, North Korea, Ukraine, etc ....? Are they still in combat conditions?

    Depends on the country.

    Some Eastern European countries have kept their MiG-29's operational, others have not....N. Korean and Cuban ones are operational judging by recent footage/pics
    avatar
    mack8

    Posts : 957
    Points : 1017
    Join date : 2013-08-02

    The Mig-29 after the USSR end

    Post  mack8 on Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:00 pm

    Romanian ones were prematurely retired in 2003 and left to rot (literally) due imo to political reasons, an enormous waste of resources. Each only had a few hundred hours on the clock, with just a moderate amount of investment they could have operated them well into the 2020s, certainly much cheaper than this whole rip-off deal for a dozen F-16s, OLDER than those MiGs, for 700 million! Less than a third of that money could have upgraded the existing ones to Lancer-like levels and arm them with things like Derby, but also they could have bought another squadron from say Hungary for a modicum price when they retired theirs and upgraded to replace the last Lancers, just like Poland still operates their MiG-29 despite also having brand new F-16, so Romania could have not worried much about new fighters until the 2020s, but the traitorous politicians were only thinking to serve their US masters...(they always wanted F-16 to please the US, no other more suitable aircraft like Gripen and no offsets were even considered).

    nastle77

    Posts : 196
    Points : 256
    Join date : 2015-07-25

    Mig-27 and Su-17 in the export market

    Post  nastle77 on Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:13 pm

    Mig-27 and Su-17 in the export market



    End of the cold war a lot of surplus su-17/mig-27 were available with relatively new airframes esp since the VVS used su-24/25 as standard equipment
    Would they have been good in the export market ? esp to nations already familiar with using soviet equipment or those embargoed by the US/NATO
    they were cheap, plenty of spares, relatively hi tech and probably a lot of ex-WP mercenaries ready to fly and maintain them
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10515
    Points : 10992
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Soviet era aircrafts used in some countries:

    Post  George1 on Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:45 am

    nastle77 wrote:Mig-27 and Su-17 in the export market



    End of the cold war a lot of surplus su-17/mig-27 were available with relatively new airframes esp since the VVS used su-24/25 as standard equipment
    Would they have been good in the export market ? esp to nations already familiar with using soviet equipment or those embargoed by the US/NATO
    they were cheap, plenty of spares, relatively hi tech and probably a lot of ex-WP mercenaries ready to fly and maintain them

    MiG-27 even in USSR era were supplied only to India. Su-17 i dont think that even african countries would use it today.


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov

    avatar
    d_taddei2

    Posts : 964
    Points : 1128
    Join date : 2013-05-11
    Location : Scotland UK

    Re: Soviet era aircrafts used in some countries:

    Post  d_taddei2 on Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:27 pm

    George1 wrote:
    nastle77 wrote:Mig-27 and Su-17 in the export market



    End of the cold war a lot of surplus su-17/mig-27 were available with relatively new airframes esp since the VVS used su-24/25 as standard equipment
    Would they have been good in the export market ? esp to nations already familiar with using soviet equipment or those embargoed by the US/NATO
    they were cheap, plenty of spares, relatively hi tech and probably a lot of ex-WP mercenaries ready to fly and maintain them

    MiG-27 even in USSR era were supplied only to India. Su-17 i dont think that even african countries would use it today.


    i think if there were cheap enough and had some minor upgrades, then they are still useful and would be ideal for the threats faced by african countries it could also be used for COIN duties, but the frames would have to be decent, and like i said they would have to be cheap enough.

    when i was in the forces, an infantryman would welcome any air support, even though requests are made for air support by infantry on the ground they don't always get it, so even getting a Mig 15, 17, 19 or even a L-39 for support would be welcome, all of these aircraft although old and most retired still could be used for COIN or ground attack. But of course thats providing they dont need a lot of money spent on them, so a lot of the older aircraft is only worth using if you already have it rather purchasing the aircraft. There is of course cheaper aircraft to be bought which are good aircraft such as SU-24M2 which Russia would be looking to off load some and you also have Mig 29M2/SMT which are cheap and in my personal opinion are great aircraft for the money.

    The Syrian Air force (rumoured) recently received over hauled Su-22 from Iran, and i can guarantee you that the Syrian air force are very grateful for this. When your facing what the Syrian armed forces are facing any aircraft or support however high or low tech it is would be welcomed with open arms.


    Last edited by d_taddei2 on Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:14 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : additional info)
    avatar
    d_taddei2

    Posts : 964
    Points : 1128
    Join date : 2013-05-11
    Location : Scotland UK

    reply

    Post  d_taddei2 on Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:33 pm

    mack8 wrote:Romanian ones were prematurely retired in 2003 and left to rot (literally) due imo to political reasons, an enormous waste of resources. Each only had a few hundred hours on the clock, with just a moderate amount of investment they could have operated them well into the 2020s, certainly much cheaper than this whole rip-off deal for a dozen F-16s, OLDER than those MiGs, for 700 million! Less than a third of that money could have upgraded the existing ones to Lancer-like levels and arm them with things like Derby, but also they could have bought another squadron from say Hungary for a modicum price when they retired theirs and upgraded to replace the last Lancers, just like Poland still operates their MiG-29 despite also having brand new F-16, so Romania could have not worried much about new fighters until the  2020s, but the traitorous politicians were only thinking to serve their US masters...(they always wanted F-16 to please the US, no other more suitable aircraft like Gripen and no offsets were even considered).


    couldnt have put it better myself, Mig 21 in upgraded form are capable aircraft and especially if you at Romania's threat in this area. Most upgraded Mig-21 are still reasonable aircraft and like you said would haven't been needed to be replaced in 2020, Romania would have then got its moneys worth.

    Mig 29's are decent aircraft and why on earth Romania decided to scrap them is beyond me. The maintenance cost for the F-16 i'd imagine are most expensive than Mig 29's and they would get shafted by USA for costs. A lot of these countries who have decided to go down the route of buying USA stuff to please them will get a big shock in years to come when the only option for them is buy the horrendously expensive F-35 lets see these countries afford to run them, i wouldnt be surprised they end up returning to Russia for fighter aircraft or maybe even China.
    avatar
    Walther von Oldenburg

    Posts : 920
    Points : 975
    Join date : 2015-01-23
    Age : 26
    Location : Oldenburg

    MiG-21s and what their performance

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:12 pm

    Need help again.

    I am looking for info on what is the newest Russian modernization of MiG-21s and what their performance is. Since a lot of countries still have them, then maybe modernizing them and using in ground attack role is still feasible?

    Svyatoslavich

    Posts : 333
    Points : 342
    Join date : 2015-04-22
    Location : Buenos Aires

    Re: Soviet era aircrafts used in some countries:

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:00 am

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Need help again.

    I am looking for info on what is the newest Russian modernization of MiG-21s and what their performance is. Since a lot of countries still have them, then maybe modernizing them and using in ground attack role is still feasible?
    The only modernization ever performed by the Russians to the MiG-21 was the Bison for the Indian air force. It receives a new HUD, MFDs, PESA radar (Kopyo) and RWR/EW systems. It can launch BVR missiles (R-77), so it seems to be a quite capable and decent light fighter. The only other modernized version that entered service is the Romanian Lancer, but this was done by Israel.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16532
    Points : 17140
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Soviet era aircrafts used in some countries:

    Post  GarryB on Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:20 am

    the MiG-21 was always a small relatively cheap mach 2 interceptor.

    There are lot of ways of improving this or that performance, but at the end of the day if you want a ground attack aircraft go for the Su-25... it is much better suited to the role and with a few modifications can perform other roles too.

    The newest MiG-21 upgrade from Russia that I have any info on is the MiG-21-93 which added the Kopyo radar and upgrades to allow the carriage and use of R-77 and R-73 AAMs as well as R-27 and R-60M. It can also carry two Kh-25MP missiles or KAB-500Kr bombs or standard 100kg, 250kg and 500kg bombs.

    Actually with 250kg and 500kg satellite guided bombs and R-77 and R-73 missiles you would have a potent little fighterbomber. Add a Sapsan targeting pod and it would be a cheap simple fighterbomber.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Sponsored content

    Re: Soviet era aircrafts used in some countries:

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:32 pm