MiG-23 / MiG-27

Austin wrote:Interesting Read

Mig-23MLD versus Western Fighter

As a whole fighters of Syria AF annihilated 42 aircraft of Israeli AF (including, as minimum, five F-15A and six F-16A) and one remote piloted aircraft in the course of dogfights from the 6th to the 12th of June (that day cease-fire has been signed). At the same time Syria AF lost 47 aircraft (four МиГ-23МС, six МиГ-23МФ, twenty six МиГ-21бис and eleven МиГ-21МФ). Besides Israeli F-16A fighters annihilated seven Су-22М fighter-bombers and some МиГ-23БН.

It is possible to explane some odds in Israel favour by the following reasons: difference in aviation machinery capabilities, wider use of early-warning and ECM aircraft, better fighters tactics in fight, higher level of fighter pilots' flying and tactical training. Besides Israeli observers noted poor moral standard of Syrian pilots. Some of them "flew as if expected that their aircraft will be brought down" (perhaps the last statement belongs to "psychological war" sphere).
Appraising results of military application of fighters in the fight above Bekaa lowland a "great Israeli commander" (he wanted to be unknown for readers) said in interview to Flight International magazine: "In my estimation: Soviet aircraft are very good judging from our knowledges about their capabilities and that we saw in practice. But Syrian pilots often acted not then, when it is necessary and not there, where it is necessary...."

However in spite of favorable for Syria outcome of fights during the 9th-11th of June USA won in "informational war". This victory was result of large propagandistic campaign conducted by USA and directed first of all against Soviet Union. Information about losses in Lebanon published in Israel had pronounced propagandistic character. According to these data Israeli AF annihilated 102 aircraft of Syria AF and at the same time lost only one aircraft brought down from land. However the general world public learned results of this war almost exclusively from messages of American news agencies which almost completely repeated information of Israeli sources. There is nothing surprising that Israelis have underestimated their losses and overstated enemy's losses. Eventually war is war and every historian knows that messages of Sovinformbureau, German Ministry of Propaganda or American commander are not good sources for researches of war 1941-1945. Nevertheless USA could use their most power in the world propaganda for discredit of Soviet aviation industry as well as for advancement of their aviation machinery, in particular, F-16 fighters with formed reputation of "МиГ killers". In such conditions Israeli victorius reports skilfully used by USA were excellent present to American aircraft building firms.

However it is necessary to note that west specialists often called in question Israeli messages. Thus Dr.J.Chorba, President of Washington Centre of Internatinal Safety, who visited Israel on a commission from American Government shortly after finishing of military operations in Lebanon, told that Israelis refused to give him any concrete information concerning use of "new American weapon" in the military operations. Timid attempts of Soviet Government to disprove Israeli version of the fights in Lebanon and to save home aviation industry's reputation by means of TASS were delated and clumsy. TASS message of the 15th of August, 1982 informed that "in military operations above Bekaa lowland Syria AF annihilated about 70 Israeli aircraft including the lastest type machinery". But this message remained unnoticed neither abroad nor in USSR.

Werewolf wrote:

- The syrian Mig-23 ML -was too, one of the best iraqi fighters- in 1983 downed several israelis' F-15, and F-16.

marcinko wrote:
Is there any hard proof regarding the Eagles ?
That would be very useful

nemrod wrote:

marcinko wrote:
Is there any hard proof regarding the Eagles ?
That would be very useful

The Mig-23 Flogger is the most misunderstood fighter, and the most despised in history of soviet weaponnery. Most misunderstood because this aircraft is a transition between SU-15, and SU-27. It could be seen too as an intermediate between, Mig-25 and Mig-29. In fact this fighter bomber is far better than the Phantom II, and the F-105, but could match F-14, F-18, F-16, Tornado and obviously F-15, if inside, you have a competent pilot. If during Desert Storm -1991- several Mig-23 ML were downed, many US coalition aircrafts were downed and damaged, far more than the US DoD could admit.

Despised because us in western countries are completly misinformed, and the tragedy is, we, more than any other people in the world, believe strongly in the lies peddled by our diabolic medias. As the war in Lebanon was fight between soviet weaponneries, and US weaponneries, became the baseline of what we believe about soviet fighters, we all rely on one of the hugest slander against the Mig-23. The problem in the 80's and 90's we had no other alternatives, other than moving out of west countries. Nevertheless, proofs against this stupid lie existed everywhere, but our brains were conditionned by western medias, and we could not imagine other things that we were taught. I spent my youth with room full of books, videos, and special newspapers about everything relating military. Nowadays, with Internet I understood that near all what I read is simply hoaxes.

The great criticism I have against Soviet Union, and Russia, they did not do enough efforts to save their own aviation industry's and know-how reputation. In fact, untill 2010, neither Soviet Union or Russia did significant efforts to refute the lies. More than anyone, soviet, or russian specialists are very well aware about the capacities of US air fleet worth, and they think it is no use to tell more. But us ? And us ? Iam not a specialist, I wish to have opinion of russians about what's happened.  In fact, russians think they are a great people -it is true-, they have a multimillenaires culture -it is true too-,  those who are interresting by russians affairs, they must learn russian tongue, and access to russian sites. I think it is not a good approach, we need Russia, we need russians, we need russians informations in every tongue, at least in english.




Please take a look here in this Topic.
Obviously here too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-23

marcinko wrote:
Thing is, we need solid proof that the 23 shot down that many and so diverse IAF fighters.
I mean come on, if you are the military then publish some damn gun camera footage, brag about what what your pilots do.

During the fighting between Israel and Hamas in Gaza in the summer of 2014, of the 15 anti-tank missiles which launched on Israeli tanks that were intercepted by the Israeli active protection system "Trophy", most were of the Kornet type. In some cases the Kornet launchers were destroyed after the "Trophy" system has detected the launch and directed the tank's main gun to the launcher position.

Currently there seems to be a massive hatred of MiG-23s which is the under appreciated aircraft between the MiG-21 and 29.

F-14 pilot snodgrass wrote:Fortunately I was looking at the right piece of sky as the missile cleared the clouds. I immediately saw it had constant bearing and big time decreasing range. I immediately rolled the Tomcat into the missile and pulled 8-10 G's while deploying chaff to aid in breaking the missile's radar lock. The missile exploded just above and behind me.

Tomcat into the missile and pulled 8-10 G's while deploying chaff to aid in breaking the missile's radar lock

However I'm sure if needed, the MiG-23 could achieve similarly high Gs in an instantaneous turn, but I have no proof to back that up.

Also an advantage toted by the F-14 was supposedly the Central Air Data Computer (the first microprocessor in the world) to manage wing sweep settings throughout the flight regime while the MiG-23's wing sweeps were entirely manual.

I'm from the US too and totally oppose the anti-Iran attitude, which ultimately stems from the pro-Israel bunch here.